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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database
#5419792 - 03/19/06 06:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ok, so recently I was working with some data operations with my GPS/Google Earth. Suddenly, it struck me how simple, and easy to store and manipulate this data was.
So I got to thinking how cool it was to be able to store and share this type of information. Then I got to thinking how it would be really nice to be able to have geographical information about where to pick various mushrooms. Psilocybe especially for me... but really... any kinds of mushrooms.
The data required to maintain such a database would not be of any greater scope than much of the other information on this site... and the tools required to view it are free and easily available. (Google Earth, for example!)
So far there are no legal obstacles I can think of. An information database of this type would be scientifically useful, and probably appreciated by many, especially those who wished to study foreign species.
I'm willing to put in work to help out... although as of yet I'm not the world's greatest hunter 
I suggest we do it.
We could go with a data structure as simple as...
{Global Position} {Accuracy of position (mushrooms found within X kilometers of this GP)} {Notes about mushrooms} {Pictures of mushrooms}
And we could have mapping-software specific files representing the total compiled data. (it would be cool to have a topographical map with shaded regions to represent expected mushroom densities!)
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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ClammyJoe
Azurescen Head



Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 3,691
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#5419813 - 03/19/06 06:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I like it. Would give me an excuse to pick up some equipment and an excuse to be mushroom hunting.
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jamsandwich


Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 328
Loc:
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: ClammyJoe]
#5419941 - 03/19/06 07:04 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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im not really sure how willing people will be to give up their favorite spots. not to mention how this information will end up in the wrong hands (LEO) who will stake out these locations.
-------------------- 8 years now! lol
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eris
underground


Registered: 11/17/98
Posts: 48,024
Loc: North East, USA
Last seen: 4 months, 17 days
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#5420355 - 03/19/06 09:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I can see a problem with that.. I mean nothing is wrong with documenting lists of locations where you found your edible/gourmet species, but actives.. that could be somewhat of a problem. you can get a pretty good idea as to what state or city (as well as date) that people are finding stuff in just by searching this forum. It is more broad and less specific.. but nothing too specific is revealed anyways.
-------------------- Immortal / Temporarily Retired The OG Thread Killer My mushroom hunting gallery
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Purple_spore
Compulsively Skeptical OG


Registered: 09/11/05
Posts: 795
Loc: nor cal
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: eris]
#5420534 - 03/19/06 09:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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It might give the government the reason they've been searching for to harass this site(and i'll bet money they have been).
-------------------- Safety first children
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georgeM
Human


Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 1,748
Loc: Osage Cuestas
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: Purple_spore]
#5420606 - 03/19/06 10:05 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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In a perfect would this would be great. I love grand conspiracies, especially when the results expand knowledge, however lets face it? we are people who inhabit a rather esoteric criminal underworld. As ridiculous as this sounds it happens to be true. And if there is one thing America has it is a rapacious appetite for putting people like us in cages. Preposterous as it may be, invisibility is a prudent if not obligatory responsibility we must bear.
georgem
But wow mango... it would be totally awesome... if only such an endeavor were to be implemented by more legitimate organizations like NAMA and or a coalition of universities.
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SleepAid
me gusta



Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 1,139
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: georgeM]
#5420611 - 03/19/06 10:06 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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That would be sweeet. I'd be glad to help in any way I could.
-------------------- Signature this, ho
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indica


Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 18,905
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: SleepAid]
#5420713 - 03/19/06 10:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'd be glad to contribute, just awaiting permission of shroomery admin?
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ClammyJoe
Azurescen Head



Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 3,691
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: indica]
#5420985 - 03/20/06 12:28 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The study should downplay the active mushrooms, and put gourmets and edibles at the forefront of the project.
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: ClammyJoe]
#5421481 - 03/20/06 07:58 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well this is already a service which I provided for actives along with my colleague Dr. Gast?n Guzm?n and Jochen Gartz.
These lists of actives are published already in scientific journals and magazines such as Psychedelic Illuminations. The papers are both here and with links to similar papers by me on the Worldwide Distribution of the Known Species of the Neurotropic Fungi and in the article Mapping the Mycelial Network which provideds a state by state location of known species and also lists the species in each Canadien Province.
, The second larger over 100 pae paper lists the known species of countries, states and sialnd groups and the known species found there.
Now this only lists the hallucnogenic fungi and only fungi documented with herbarium specimens of known species.
Here are two maps of this documentation by us. And as I noted above, these lists provide every known species except for about 20 more species not listed and currently inn study for Guzm?n's new revision of the genus Psilocybe (144) species in that genera are now known to be psychoactive.
The lists also include the other families of mushrooms knwon to contain psilocin and psilocybine, already published.
World distribution of the hallucinogenic Psilocybe. Each dot means one of several localities. Note the high concentration of dots in Mexico, South America, and Europe; Latin America has the highest number of species, with more than 50, vs. Europe, Canada, and the US, which have no more than 20 species.

Here is an image of the distribution of the hallucinogenic species of Psilocybe in Mexico. Note that the great majority of localities are on the line of the 1000 m of altitude in slopes of both Gulf of mexico and Pacific ocean. Those localities with an arrow, a cross, and a triangle are in coniferous forests of high mountains, tropical meadows, and tropical rain forests, respectively. The locality with a point is an isolated one of the 1000 m altitude region. The discontinous lines show the political division in states of the country.

Your idea was cool, but you should consider making a distribution list of edibles and or edibles and toxic shrooms.
Good luck, mj
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: mjshroomer]
#5421772 - 03/20/06 09:42 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Are those the only maps you guys have as of current? They look nice, but I was hoping for something a little more 'modern'/adaptive as well as something that was open to contribution from the general public.
If we used data formatted to google earth we would be able to point out a mushroom patch down to a few meters of accuracy- or leave it as ambiguous as within a few kilometers if we were worried about our patches.
As far as I am aware, even if picking psilocybe is illegal in some places, knowing where to find it is not. And while cops would theoretically be able to stake out wild mushrooms... this seems like a futile effort. I would be surprised if any authorities were actually dumb enough to spend money on that sort of endeavour.
I would love to hear opinions from some admins!
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#5421926 - 03/20/06 10:28 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Giving actual locations is not allowed on these boards, nor on any drug boards or mushroom boards. That is strickly forbidden. And for good reasons. And, while you think that cops would not stake out a location shows just how dangerous it would be to provide locations down to a few meters and that is an idiotic thought to began with.
80 people busted picking in West Virgina after police staked out a known location for Psilocybe caerulipes.
Police have done this in Florida and In Hawaii. And ev en here in the PNW, most pickers are generally told to dump their bags and beat it and not come back again. Fair warning when you could probably be busted for doing so if the cops here wanted to. Names are generally written down and/or recorded by the cops on little notepads in their pockets. And police here have also waited for shroomers in fields to ticket them for trespassing.
And as for the demographic locations posted above, those are in a current issue of the International Journal of Medicinal Mushrooms published in 2005, so they are current maps.
An example of what locations can be mentioned, in Seattle for instance, Green Lake, the arborentum, Any local parks, streets and adresses, as well as shopping centers are a no-no and if someone were to post such they would be deleted, etc. The areas mentioned in this post such as Green Lake, etc., are areas that are miles long and very wide, so no exact location is given.
However, the nice thing is if that you read those two papers I noted above, they give references for the botanical and mycological descriptions of species and in those papers, if you were to go to university library and look them up, give a more specific location as to where many of the species noted in such collections were collected from.
That information you cannot really find on google.
Of course, all such information is on my cd-rom, "Teonan?catl: A Bibliography of Entheogenic Mushrooms by John W. Allen, and Jochen Gartz, Ph.D.
And have a shroomy day,
One last thing I would like to point out is that many people posting here believe they have found a magic mushroom because someone else said it was an active species or because they believe it looks like one they saw oin the internet or in a field guide have been wrong on many ocassions. They also report magic shrooms from where they do not grow or are impossible to grow at the locations described Many of those people post such misinformation here at the Shroomery and elsewhere. And many often misidentify species as something else.
We have people here at the shroomery, many people misidentifying shrooms all the time, Galerina Autumnalis (a deadly toxic species) as Psilocybe cyanescens, and many times frm people who id mushrooms in states where they do not grow. People often, in the spring, identified mycenas psathyrellas, coprinus and other mushrooms as liberty caps. When they are not, or do not grow in the spring months and also in areas where they really do not grow at all.
Without factual recorded data with herbatrium deposits to verify that they are there, such a list would be dangerous to the new shroomer looking for something active and being poisoned because someone listed something not identifiable from such areas. \ A good example is that every year I show images of Galerina autumnalis to people I meet and soem of them tell me they ate those and had a good trip. I would hate to be someone who is given such shrooms as somethign else because they were on a list of actives species from who knows where.
Just a thought of consideration about this matter.
mj
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MadSeasonAbove
Reef Donkey


Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 3,143
Loc: Florida
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#5421965 - 03/20/06 10:45 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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giving locations down to the Km is probably still a bit specific. how about a database or an upgrade to the locations section of the hunting forum; which lists Major cities/larger towns that are known to have certain species of mushrooms.
It will most likely be a lot of repeating. but if done completely, you would really have an idea as to what areas to hunt and what your target species is for that specific hunt, if you have one.
It would be a lot of work gathering all that. But hey, lots of people have put in a lot of hard hours into this hobby, and many more will in the future.
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BobHumboldt
Stranger


Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 176
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: MadSeasonAbove]
#5442072 - 03/25/06 08:01 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hey, all. Google Earth is awesome, but I agree with most of the previous posters (I believe) that posting locations for actives through that resource (even at 1km accuracy) is a bad idea.
The previous idea, though: for example a list of Counties within a state with the known species. That would seem to be workable and general enough that it would be unlikely to "tip off" any Law Enforcement Agencies and would not encourage the unwitting consumption of poisonous lookalikes.
My 2 cents worth, anyways.
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LaughingGym
The Wizard ofMush


Registered: 02/17/06
Posts: 91
Loc: Virginia
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: BobHumboldt]
#5442183 - 03/25/06 08:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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"The study should downplay the active mushrooms, and put gourmets and edibles at the forefront of the project."
Why don't we do that^ and say stuff like "Warning! The following mushrooms are mushrooms that cause dangerous hallucinations and should not be ingested!" regarding actives so it seems that we in no way condone searching for these mushrooms and we can still post that kind of information (places, description etc.) to 'make sure they watch out for these kind of mushrooms'.
I too would be willing to give all my information that I've gathered from all the field guides and other sources I have found.
-------------------- Mushrooms mushrooms everywhere, but not one cap to trip.
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Strophariaceae
mycologist


Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 109
Loc: Marvelous Marin County, C...
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: LaughingGym]
#5442661 - 03/25/06 11:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I love the idea of putting together such a database. Obviously, it can't include exact GPS locations - you shouldn't expect people to report their favorite patches to the whole world. But a database giving the identification to species, general locality, and date would be a great boost to science, not to mention general mushrooming.
Putting together an online database that users can input information into, and have that information condensed into a searchable database - that's not any easy thing. I wouldn't have the slightest idea where to begin. But if anybody knows how to do this, creating this kind of web-based database would be great.
Peter
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: mjshroomer]
#5452878 - 03/28/06 08:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
mjshroomer said: And, while you think that cops would not stake out a location shows just how dangerous it would be to provide locations down to a few meters and that is an idiotic thought to began with.
Fuck you.
Who are you to judge the idea to be idiotic?
I can see my car on Google Earth. The technology is here.
There are more mushrooms than cops.
Mushrooms growing on the ground are not illegal. They are just mushrooms growing on the ground.
Don't be so closed minded. Try and pretend you live in a free country for a minute or two.
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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shroominDole
Stranger


Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 482
Loc: O.C . S o. C a l .
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#5453021 - 03/28/06 08:54 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fuck you ..................I can see my car on Google Earth.The technology is here.
.....so can the cops.........the technology is here......
Quote:
Mushrooms growing on the ground are not illegal.
.....but the chemicals in them are.....and once they are no longer ON the ground but ON you.....possession.....and its now illegal to posess spores of these mushrooms in several states(including Calif.) despite no regulated chemicals present inside.....
Quote:
They are just mushrooms growing on the ground.
....tell it to the judge.....
Edited by shroominDole (03/30/06 12:25 PM)
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indica


Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 18,905
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: shroominDole]
#5453696 - 03/28/06 11:48 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I love shrooms.
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AsianYumYum
Stranger

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 262
Loc: Columbus, Ohio, USA
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: Proposed Community Project: Geographical Database [Re: indica]
#5453948 - 03/29/06 03:57 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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yes, though something like this would be good, i think it would be good in another world where mycology is much more respected. if you think about it you have a community here of people who know their shit, and i think in stead of risking anyone getting mad or any legal action to set up some easy to use map thingy, you should just start relationships with people on the board...learn from them and their hunting, read up on worldwide species finds, and post your findings. strengthen this community that already exists to help people become more knowledgeable about the subject. it was a very nice idea, but i don't think it holds any practicality as of now.
-------------------- Hail to the King Baby
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