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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
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HPPD, bad trip, antisocial behavior, my story
#5418321 - 03/19/06 10:17 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ok well after browsing the site for quite a while in regards to HPPD I figure Ill give you people my exact circumstances. This is going to be quite a long post but i would greatly appreciate it if you read and commented.
Ive done shrooms id say about 20 to 25 times. The first experiences were all dreamlike and wonderfull, yet i was completely ignorant to what they really could do to my mind. Id say first solo trips were when I first started to analyze my own life. After each trip I would understand my life better and feel so motivated to fix whats wrong and to pursue what matters in life. Id say my 8th trip was when i finally went through complete ego loss. I dont know how to describe this... Soon after this was when things started to go badly. I made the horrible decision of tripping in the company of someone i didnt trust. I mean normally i could be in his company and i even smoked with him a few times. Anyways these shrooms were particularly booming and i felt my self slowly slipping from reality. So this kid was joking around with everyone tripping, fucking with them a little bit but when he came to me i took everything he said as seriousness. It didnt seem the least bit funny and i didnt know how to handle it, as i was tripping my balls off. I wish i could have just laughed and i think everyhting wouldnt have gone to shit. So I just kept telling him to not look at me, obviously in a distrusting way, which offended him i think. He said that hed look where ever he wanted. I would have just left if i could have but i was seriously impaired and at a friends house, so i closed my eyes and pretended to be asleep. I could hear my counterpart saying that i couldnt be asleep as i lie there. This experience was my moment of ultimate personal weakness in my entire life. Somehow i was also connected with this person, i could feel such tension between us, that it caused me physical discomfort when he entered and left the room. I could tell without even seeing or hearing him, i could feel his presence, due to this connection i think. Anyways i eventually did fall asleep after everyone had mostly left or went to bed. At this same point in my life i had begun having extreme panic attacks when i smoked. Its strange because these panic attacks felt more like extreme pain than panic. In my head i was not acutally panicking so to say because i was completely rational about what was around me and i did not feel in danger or anything. But im almost positive that these were panic attackis, as ive looked into it quite a bit. Anyways I cannot actually recall if they started before or after my bad trip, unfortunately. I also noticed that when i smoked i could no longer look even my best friends in the eyes. We would be having a normal goodnatured conversation when all of a sudden i just could not look my friends in the eyes, not even able to concentrate on what they are talking about. I continued smoking and my panic attacks got so bad that i was freaking out before i could even get high. I gave the herb about a 2 month break and went back at it and i could get high again without having the panic attacks. But now everytime i smoked there was a rational fear of being around pretty much anyone, and i could only get slightly high. I would have given it a longer break but I am studying music and it is all my pride and joy at this point, and drugs enhance both my abilities and appreciation. I also have still consistantly used shrooms about an average of once every 2 months. My trips were putting me closer to god, enlightening me more and more, and giving me so much creativity, but each trip was also getting a harsher edge to it as well. I believe this edge represents my problems. I depend on these drugs for my music writing ability, entertainmment, and most importantly enlightenment. But in consequence ive become completely avoident of almost all social interaction. Now i have instances when i cant look people in the eye even when im sober. I havent seen alot of my friends in a very long time, and Ive seen my best friends only occasionally. I am only completely comfortable around my family, yet i cannot even look them in the eye. And forget about women at this point, Id love to have a girlfriend but its to painstaking to even look a girl in the eye anymore, let alone make a connection. On the brightside my music has really blossomed, and im pretty sure of my financial future is set, and i will be doing what i love more than anything, if things keep up the way they are going. I think that mabey i can conquer these fears through my mushroom usages as ive conquered so many other personality faults through mushroom usage. Yet im not sure, because i also feel like im going in the opposite direction, distancing myself further from society. This problem originated from shrooms after all! This is why i think they can heal me too tho. Ive accepted that this may be my fate and feel that i could live life in near seclusion. Im more afraid that i will not find a woman to spend my life with, but that is a whole different story and not something i really wish to discuss. I have never really thought much about HPPD but from what ive read it is starting to scare me a bit. Ive never had a "real" flashback where my mentality went all trippy, but anytime i smoke i get mushroom like hallucinaitons, such as breathing walls and highlighted colors and such. I can also make anything "breathe" just about anytime if i concentrate, and it also comes involuntary for about the first minute or so after i wake up. This summer im planning on tripping a whole lot in nature to figure my shit out, along with my brother, whom ive been able to share good trips with. (still with an edge) Hes felt my bad vibes and i told him that i completely trust him, which i do as far as i know. He says it feels like an awkwardness which is kind of a good discription.
My questions are 1. Are my plans to spend the summer tripping alot a good idea? im saying once every 2-3 weeksish 2. Can I transfer my burden to my brother accidently? I know that hes felt it but he says that he just puts it behind him and enjoys the trip. To me it seems like he should be enjoying his trips more tho, as my first trips were spectacular times. 3. Does it sound like I have something to worry about with HPPD?
Any other advice would be greatly appreciated!
peace, Kurt
-------------------- Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun The frumious Bandersnatch!
Edited by daytripper23 (03/19/06 10:32 PM)
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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
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Re: HPPD, bad trip, antisocial behavior, my story [Re: daytripper23]
#5420693 - 03/19/06 10:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Wow i just got high and understood everything.
Im done with drugs in all seriousness.
I felt i understood everything.
Weed just makes me depressed now so why do it? - finished DXM i get nothing out of except a good time and its not worth it. -finished
shrooms on the other hand i am not going to rely on to solve my problems. Im going to solve my problems myself, and when things are looking good for me again I will trip shrooms. Although i believed mushrooms were sacred before I wasnt treating them that way. I will no longer treat it as a drug, using it for instant gratification.
I already feel tons better, peace
-------------------- Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun The frumious Bandersnatch!
Edited by daytripper23 (03/20/06 01:38 PM)
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Grok
Has Been a Bad Boy


Registered: 12/03/03
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Re: HPPD, bad trip, antisocial behavior, my story [Re: daytripper23]
#5426685 - 03/21/06 06:24 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sounds like you figured stuff out.
Just stick to your plan
-------------------- Entropy is increasing. To send me a PM, go to my journal
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shponglified
Fuckthegov.



Registered: 06/07/08
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Re: HPPD, bad trip, antisocial behavior, my story [Re: daytripper23]
#8759181 - 08/11/08 04:55 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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you probably wont see this cus you posted it a long time ago but when I was reading this I actually felt your pain cus I feel so similar to you. Im a musician as well and the whole mindfuck antisocial thing you were going through, Im going through that now. Everything you wrote Im feeling to a T. And I know its because of the psychedelics and pot. Thanks for sharing
-------------------- "Down in Denver, all I did was die"-Jack Kerouac Go to Pinchbeck's new site, http://www.realitysandwich.com --- News for the heads
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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
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Re: HPPD, bad trip, antisocial behavior, my story [Re: shponglified]
#8759914 - 08/11/08 08:23 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Dude I am here now! It seems like an eternity sense I started this thread.
I can tell that if you can relate to this, then you are probably feeling pretty isolated. But what I have learned is that learning to live without having to have a pal at your side at all times is a worthwhile path, even if it is a bit paranoiac. Here is the advice I now would give my past self.
Don't think that isolation is a bad thing, because it isn't. Its a meditation. Once you first touch into this individuality, it feels like you against the world, and you might feel shame in this perspective. I used to think bad of myself, because I couldn't even get along with my friends anymore. I thought "Everyone else does can just chill, so why cant I just loosen up? Why cant I just go with the flow like I used to?" I seriously suspected that I was more of a man when I was the social butterfly I was in early highschool. It didn't seem like anything other than regression.
But your not regressing at all. The fact of the matter is, you are addressing something that you did not address before. You have become aware of a whole level of reality that was before pushed away by cheap thrills and the avoidance of awkward situations through affectation. Its easy to criticize the "self against the world" perspective, but its a stage any real individual goes through. Sometimes its funny, and often it is sad or even disgusting to see the lengths that people will go through to avoid true individuality and intimacy. I call it "bad humor".
I was right that it is about loosening up, and going with the flow, but this idea doesn't mean losing yourself to affectation. This is key. Its hard to tell the difference, but as a real example I think that my delusion was wishing I could have just laughed so the whole situation would have blown over. This was actually the root of my problem, even though I only explicitly realized this later. Now I look back, and realize that "wishing that I could laugh", is the wrong approach. It is one thing to loosen up, but doing this does not mean laughing at what isn't funny.
Speaking of music, I still think that art really is the answer, but my philosophy was so far off. I said it was my pride and joy, and this is one quality too many. This interview by guitarist Robert Fripp (King Crimson) of John Mclaughlin (Mahavishnu orchestra, and shakti - The track at the beginning of this post) seems to express the fundamental mistake I had in approach.
Quote:
McLaughlin: The most difficult thing, I think, in being a musician is to get out of the way.
Fripp: How do you get out of the way? Do you have specific techniques or regimens that you use? Can you just get yourself out of the way without thinking about it?
McLaughlin: If I'm thinking about it, I'm in the way. You have to forget, to forget everything. The minute we forget everything is when we're finally found.
Fripp: How do you forget everything?
McLaughlin: Oh, it's so hard...it's so hard because you're always looking for colors, for new scales, new chords, new ways to say what you feel. But to be able to say "I want to say what I feel" comes >from a selfish point of view. Idealistically, the music should take what it wants and so we should bear it open and allow it to be. That's difficult because it's a paradox, Robert. You have to know everything, then you have to forget it all. Learning is relatively easy. It's difficult to recommend how to get out of the way (laughs). That's what I'm learning how to do myself.
Losing the pride will help your music, and your music will help you lose your pride. Don't get mixed up in the idea that art is an expression of yourself. This is true, and not true at the same time, and it can really trip you up. Just keep emersing yourself in it, and always go deeper. Always play, even when you run the scales and arpeggios, solely for the sake of joy.
About panic attacks what was key for me was understanding it as a spiritual experience, rather than a disorder. (somewhat like I previously described as being a loner - its not a "problem"!) for me it was an investigation of the very physical nature of them. You can actually stretch the paranoia right out of yourself, its amazing! I still get these "attacks", and I have even learned to induce them myself through meditation - except now I have the pleasure of actually releasing this tension. Know that there are physical and mental disciplines that teach you to enjoy this energy by manipulating it into pleasure and creativity.
This is the advice i would give to myself 2 and a half years ago, maybe you could find it useful.
Edited by daytripper23 (08/11/08 08:53 PM)
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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Re: HPPD, bad trip, antisocial behavior, my story [Re: daytripper23]
#8761830 - 08/12/08 07:39 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Disturbance of the mind is usually the first indicator that we are undergoing a deep inner change, and 9 out of 10 people are going to close it down, suppress the disturbance, and return to their old same selves because it's comfortable.
Interestingly enough if one can sink into the disturbance, become the disturbed, and accept it, then the disturbance dissipates, then the quality is transformed, then the person is transformed and 9 out 10 times it is for the better.
Sounds like you went through a wonderful transformation! Namaste!
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ManianFH
living in perverty


Registered: 07/06/04
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Re: HPPD, bad trip, antisocial behavior, my story [Re: daytripper23]
#8762790 - 08/12/08 01:02 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
daytripper23 said: Wow i just got high and understood everything.
Im done with drugs in all seriousness.
I felt i understood everything.
Weed just makes me depressed now so why do it? - finished DXM i get nothing out of except a good time and its not worth it. -finished
shrooms on the other hand i am not going to rely on to solve my problems. Im going to solve my problems myself, and when things are looking good for me again I will trip shrooms. Although i believed mushrooms were sacred before I wasnt treating them that way. I will no longer treat it as a drug, using it for instant gratification.
I already feel tons better, peace
good you got lucky i suppose. follow what you just wrote. you dont need to do drugs anymore, and you dont need to rely on them to make your music or your life better. youve had your fun, now work your shit our on a sober mind.
stay away from that shit, and take what youve learned with you
good luck man
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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ManianFH
living in perverty


Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 14,741
Last seen: 1 day, 8 hours
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Re: HPPD, bad trip, antisocial behavior, my story [Re: ManianFH]
#8762792 - 08/12/08 01:02 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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oh shit nm, disregard those posts, i didnt notice the dates
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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fazdazzle
Wanderer


Registered: 02/17/05
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Re: HPPD, bad trip, antisocial behavior, my story [Re: ManianFH]
#8763435 - 08/12/08 04:04 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm working through a somewhat similar situation myself, though it started from a gigantic panic attack on pot. So I stopped doing everything like you mentioned...but since it's been a while since you decided that, have you started back up? Just shrooms?
How are you with your friends now? I spend a lot of time in seclusion and it kinda sucks. I used to enjoy my alone time but now it seems like a burden except I have this quandary with my friends so I don't see that as an easy choice either...
Nice usage on affectation - what a cool word and it happens so often (even with ourselves, if gone unchecked) but rarely actually seen for what it is.
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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
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Re: HPPD, bad trip, antisocial behavior, my story [Re: fazdazzle]
#8764315 - 08/12/08 06:36 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Fazzdazzle, I would have to write a book to describe my situation as a whole. But I can share my experience and path as it relates to marijuanna in particular:
I always kind of found it strange how there is very little straight forward information on panic attacks. Learning to deal with them is usually described in the same manner as learning to meditate, and so naturally, this can be frustrating when you trying to "just live your life". But I think there really seems to be an empirical approach as well, even though this isn't usually described.
For me it was understanding a certain parallel that for me at least, arose out of smoking weed. At first when I got panic attacks, I was just figuring out what the hell they actually were. I never actually thought I was dying, but I did think I got laced weed a few times, or something. It felt really alien to experience, like something isn't right. They didn't seem like something within me, so you can see how I would doubt that "its just in my head". Secondly as I described before, when I first got them, there was actually no panic at all! Id just get these blinding flashes of what I would describe as pain, that were rooted in the stomach. (weed has an effect on the digestive system, and I have found that the paranoia comes right when I felt an unsettlement in the stomach. I think is to be the root of the attacks, and I later found it to be the root of an entire spiritual discipline. I have described this root to others who have had panic attacks though, and not everybody knows what I am talking about. It might be particular to me, as well)
Anyways, as I will later describe, this physical nature was very important.
But as I kept getting them, my way of unconsciously dealing them seemed to be to transfer this pain into mental paranoia. Now that I look back, I figure it was my way of repressing this pain - the transfer of this energy from physical to mental.
This is going to seem kind of strange, but it is really telling of this particular dynamic. When I first got the really physical panic attacks, I tried anything to take my mind off them. I learned that beating off would at the same time both bring me down quite a bit, and it actually made the waves of pain that come feel REALLY good. (better than normal)
So like I said, after a while, my body began coping in a particular way that the panic attacks stopped coming, and in its place I started to become paranoid in a mental sense. At first I was in a kind of vicious circle where I was paranoid of having an attack, and now that I look back, this connection would have been much easier to deal with than what it became. With the transfer from physical to mental, the same vicious circle became more worldly and social, and I was in the typical paranoiac situation of not being able to chill. In practical terms, I was paranoid of being paranoid. You know, "just chill!" was apparently the answer, but well, you know how it can be.
The social paranoia substantiates itself this way. Im not cool, why cant i just be cool, and this made me uncool. Heres your chance, your going to blow it - you blew it. This makes the paranoia seem justified. Anyways I don't really know how to escape this mental cycle. I learned to meditate, and of course I didn't make the kind of incredible progress that was needed to get me on track. (not to at all downplay the significance of meditation in the path I am describing). I could meditate alone and chill this way, but Id lose my cool at school. I still do for that matter.
So what I began doing was using cannabis as a tool in my meditations. When I meditated at home, I wasn't actually facing my fears so much. It was "easy" to meditate at home, to chill out. But with weed I could induce this paranoia even at home. Using it as a tool in this way really helped me. It wasn't just the weed or just the meditation, it was both. I learned that in the hindu traditions, weed was actually used in connection with meditation and yoga!
As a matter of coincidence, and some faith in certain wise posters around these parts (thanks alteredagain!) I also ended up taking a personal fitness class at my college, and began eating healthy. This is very much tied to the functions of yoga.
So the practice I have developed is to bring forth this paranoia, and transfer it back to its physical "energetic" nature. I realized that this is it in its fundamental form, this tension is not paranoia but energy. The unsettlement in the stomach, is blocked energy. Yoga and the mind/body connection taught me to breathe and streeeetch it out, instead of transferring it to mental paranoia. Youll know you are doing it right because it feels so good when you do it. Also another as an alternative to this this, the tension can be released by spontanious attacks of laughter, that are familiar to any cannabis smoker. But if you cant laugh it out (dont force it!), youve got to find another outlet.
Like i said, I still get "attacks" but only when I want to. They arent actually attacks though but movements of energy. So cannabis ended up being both a "problem" and an effective meditative tool for me. I still use it for this.
I dont want to sound absolute in what I describe, like all my troubles with paranoia are solved. Being able to chill or "play on command" will always be a paradox. Alan Watts describes it as the "controlled accident". But once you learn how to do this at all, youve found a path, and you've got hope. Weed still makes me "paranoid" but like I said this is not its fundamental form, this is just the deeper levels of unconscious coming out. Its a constant struggle for many people to try and avoid this, which presents itself as awkwardness. Ive learned you gotta let this awkwardness arise though; it might be an awkward silence, or uncomfortable eye contact. Let it rise rather than using "bad humor" to get past it.
I still don't smoke around people I don't know, but I do around my friends and family. And the awkwardness is still there, but has actually become a game of mine. Ive found that its no different than anything else in life - the tension is what makes the release enjoyable. This is how life is enjoyed, and life is to be enjoyed not avoided. Being able to observe this instead of getting tied up makes the situation rather funny, even though it can still be uncomfortable. There is nothing enjoyable about a cramp, fatigue, or general unconfortability, but the fear or avoidance of these things is what makes you suffer the most.
Edited by daytripper23 (08/12/08 07:21 PM)
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