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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: Peyote_Princess]
    #5422252 - 03/20/06 12:17 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Huh, I think you responded to the original poster :wink:

Once I smoked dmt, I intentionally stopped at the first gate to take a good and loong look.
After coming down, I enjoyed the effects of the lasting syrean rue (priorily ingested) and was intentionally watching into the movie of my brain, until I broke through (the crysanthemum and the lightening tunnel) and did recieve for what I asked for (I wanted to see an angel) :lol:
:heart:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: Peyote_Princess]
    #5422996 - 03/20/06 07:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Perhaps this book, which I recently read, would help you to see the Pagan elements that were already merged with Christianity (though largely suppressed by orthodoxy). Christianity is anything but a Jewish religion, as it was at its inception. The Greek concepts of Divine Incarnation, of a God-man, of 'God-clothed-with-flesh,' is strictly Pagan. Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Babylonians, Mesopotamians, etc. all had this idea set in various traditions: Dionysus, Bacchus, Mithras, Osirus, Attis, Tammuz, etc. Moreover, since they all were solar-masculine deities (usually with consorts, or accompanying goddesses), they were ALL said to have been born on December 25th, marking the Winter Solstice and the return of the Light. Like Judaism before it (which originally recognized YHVH's 'Asherah' [Goddess]), Christianity also suppressed the Eternal Feminine (although some people believe Jesus and Mary were married, and thus represented the God & Goddess).

Wiccans, coming from Celtic and other traditions continue to acknowledge Divinity in Duality. In the Biblical Genesis, the Name 'Elohim,' an unusal conjunction of feminine with plural masculine ending suggests that that Name for God is 'Mother-Father.' It is not until after creation that the Name YHVH is used. The Cherubim atop the Ark of the Covenant are said by some Jewish mystics to represent the original Divine Duality that descends from the ONE.

I, for one, symbolize the Logos [Christ] and Wisdom [Sophia] as part of my grasp of these aspects of the ONE. Mary the Mother and Mary the Wise Woman are both Feminine archetypes that need to be integrated into the long-held patriarchal one-sided distortion of God as Mother-Father. Just today I read in Dion Fortune's The Mystical Qabalah that Elohim is more representative of the God that I worship than the 'irascible mountain-god' Jehova/Yahweh.

Anyway, with some digging, one can usually find all the universals in any given tradition without having to travel too far afield of one's roots. One then sees the conspiracies that suppressed under pain of death these universal truths for the sake of power and sexual politics. While maintaining that demonic practices were being eliminated, the Truth is that Christianity became, in HUGE degree, a greater evil than any Pagan religion ever was. Druids never burned alive the millions of human beings that organized Christianity did. I endeavor to become a Christian who embodies Sophia and Logos, Wisdom and Compassion, Head and Heart - directly from the Source - no longer through the doctrines of men.

Peace and Love,
MtG


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5424357 - 03/21/06 02:10 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you markos for that input !
:heart: :thumbup:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5426312 - 03/21/06 05:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks fo so saying BlueCoyote!


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: thepos]
    #5426880 - 03/21/06 07:04 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

if you want to see the bible compared to an acid trip, read timothy leary's high priest. also, i dissagree with your theory that the bible itself was based on drug trips, as far as i know, psychedelics weren't that popular among the people responsible for writing the bible and you seem to be forgetting that mystical experiences can (and traditionally do) occur without drugs. i think it's a mistake to assume that any out of the ordinary experience must automatically be a result of a hallucinogenic drug. its kinda like those people who whenever they read a strange poem or book, assume the author must have been on drugs when he wrote it.


Edited by Deviate (03/21/06 07:05 PM)


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Offlinegoatboy7
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: Deviate]
    #5427399 - 03/21/06 08:46 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

First of all, I want to second your recommendation of High Priest. That book definitely rules. Second I respectfully disagree with your opinion that the people responsible for writing the Bible weren't on psychedelics. First of all, Who is responsible for writing the bible? None of the gospels are actually named (so we don't have a real author), and scholars can't even tell if they were written by Jews or Greeks. We know at least from the Eleusinian Mysteries that the Greeks enjoyed psychedelic drug use. And Clark Heinrich's book "Magic Mushrooms in religion and Alchemy" has put forward some interesting theories that the Jews used psychedelics as well.


--------------------
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't
include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the
Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." --Terence McKenna

"Ordinary morality is only for ordinary people."--Aleister Crowley


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: goatboy7]
    #5427626 - 03/21/06 09:36 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

but that hardly establishes that the writers were on psychedelics. that's the exactly the type of thinking i think is unfounded, the idea that because such and such wrote some mystical text they must have been using drugs. as if all mysticism and spirituality is dependent on psychedelics. it's certainly possible, i'm not denying it that they may have used drugs. i just don't think you can draw that conclusion based on the fact that they wrote mystical texts.


Edited by Deviate (03/21/06 09:40 PM)


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Offlinegoatboy7
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: Deviate]
    #5427849 - 03/21/06 10:21 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I wasn't basing it on the fact that they wrote mystical texts, I was basing it on the fact that the Greeks were known drug users (especially in the mystery traditions) and many believe Jews were too. And those are the 2 big choices as to who wrote the bible.


--------------------
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't
include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the
Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." --Terence McKenna

"Ordinary morality is only for ordinary people."--Aleister Crowley


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: goatboy7]
    #5427877 - 03/21/06 10:25 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

but modern day americans are also known drug users, that doesn't mean that every mystical book written by an american was based on drugs.


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Offlinegoatboy7
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: Deviate]
    #5427940 - 03/21/06 10:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I am not sure what you are saying. Are you looking for 100 percent fact that they used drugs. That type of evidence is almost impossible to find since it was about 2000 years ago. You have to look at it in probability terms. And if you look at it that way, you see that most of the mystics (like the Eleusinian Mysteries) were on drugs.


--------------------
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't
include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the
Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." --Terence McKenna

"Ordinary morality is only for ordinary people."--Aleister Crowley


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: goatboy7]
    #5428251 - 03/21/06 11:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

i'm simply saying i require more evidence that they were on drugs than simply that drugs were available and they wrote about mystical things. i don't know whether such evidence exists.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: goatboy7]
    #5428738 - 03/22/06 05:47 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Actually, I believe that is is 'few' who believed that the ancient Hebrews used entheogens, not "many." Daniel Merkur is among the authors who believe that and has really stretched interpretations about the 'manna from heaven' being mushrooms and the 'shewbread' being ergot-laden, and he does offer very interesting perspectives. However, let us not forget that even if entheogens were used, there is still the importance of mental 'set' and of course the Source of the Transcendental Experience - the Transcendental Itself (God).

Scholarly consensus is that Hebrews (sometimes multiple authors of one book, as in Isaiah), wrote the books included in the canonical Bible. 'Luke' may have been a Hellenized Hebrew if not a Greek. Many of the pseudepigraphal writings and Nag Hammadi writings were from non-Jews. The author Matthew quoted (misquoted actually!) the Greek Old Testament when he wrote that the Savior was to be born of a "virgin" in Bethlehem. The Greek OT (Septuigint) had only one word for virgin/young wwoman - parthenos. The Hebrew version of the Isaiah text says 'almah' - young woman. The Hebrew for virgin would have been 'betulah.' Parthenogenesis - Greek for virgin birth is the scientific word we have today. So, the Greek language used by Hebrew authors still had a Greek spin to the Gospels at any rate, so in a sense you are still correct. Hebrews never believed in the Hero born of a God and a mortal woman, the Greeks did.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblepsyillyazul
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5429604 - 03/22/06 11:45 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I tend to think that its the reality that people find themselves in that is causing this confusion. If you believe that God is in the sky you have been deceived. If you believe that God is inside you somewhere it becomes a matter of the most efficient ways to get IN. The Bible is a way in. You just have to know the language. Mental imagery. Read for the images. Form a solid image of what is meant by "Manna". Or you might just believe that bread really does fall from the sky! In that case your beliefs conceal the reality, and you find yourself in the dark waiting for a fantasy. The thing is the Truth is an open secret. And only when your eyes are opened can you truly SEE. The Bible itself discloses how Adam and Eve remedied this problem. If you call this a Fall... Good luck. You worship the half-maker or man, the god of the Bible. Remember that Jesus said to those who overcome he will give to them to eat the "hidden manna". Now what do you think they were eating at the Last Supper?? And what do you think needs to be overcome?? Blindness?? Your reality?? Your ego?? How about the understanding of the Truth. And why would he reward you with "hidden manna". Suppose that the proof is in the pudding. I think we can start by rejecting the anthropomorphized God of the Bible altogether. The real God has a plan to swap out the old information with new opportunity in every human being. Some might call this enlightenment, I call it the truth. When you stumble upon this experience in your journey, you will know the only way to remedy the problem. Access to God, or yourself. Then it is clear which is more appropriate, a real experience of God that produced religion, or religion producing the experience of God. Tell you what... If religion produced the real experience of God the world would not be what it is today. We would know what God is thousands of years later. We would have access. What else did Jesus say... "Take heed let no man deceive you." Are you being deceived?? Flip it upside down. Maybe God was the serpent, right?? Research ego death and relate that to dying for Christ.

psyilly


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: psyillyazul]
    #5430278 - 03/22/06 02:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I had a professor of New Testament in seminary who once told me that 'metaphor is more powerful than LSD.' Sometimes I see the truth in that statement!


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblepsyillyazul
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5431125 - 03/22/06 05:56 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Did he teach you metaphor than??


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: psyillyazul]
    #5431258 - 03/22/06 06:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

No. He was an Indian Christian with books on Marxism on his shelf. He was very Literalist and probably saw just a social gospel in the New Testament, nothing deeply symbolic, metaphysical, mystical or metaphorical.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblepsyillyazul
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5433748 - 03/23/06 10:16 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

then?? sorry. (last post)
Do you think this is a problem?? What did you learn from him?? Why are the authorities on the subject literalists?? Seems as though if a literal interpretation is given the mystical is concealed. Now if we are dealing with mystic's visions, surely there is a literal counterpart to produce such visions. How was this addressed?? What if the Gospel is a literal explanation of a mystical approach to God?? Only its being taught by individuals who don't believe in anything of the sort. Do you feel that the reality of mysticism has been written out of reality?? Do you feel that mysticism is literally real?? Do you see a way to produce whats called GOD written in between the lines of the Bible??


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: psyillyazul]
    #5434990 - 03/23/06 03:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Literalism is religious myth taken literally, which is to say historically. Christianity is classified as a 'historical' religion, but it has a mystical core. Literalists cannot discern the mystical level, and consequently they do not grok that such a level can be at the core of their faith. The Literalist interpretation is to expect a historical event - a material phenomenon - to occur, based on a literal interpretation of scriptures. The mystical interpretation realizes that the historical story format (midrash) is the outer (exoteric) symbol for the inner (esoteric) or mystical Reality. The literal is not an "explanation" of the mystical - the mystical is THE Reality and it must be experienced. It can be spoken 'about' and written 'about' but the Reality can only be lived.

There was a Man from midnight
Who walked along a road
A Light was His possession
It was a heavy load
He wrapped it all in colors
But left the binding free
For those who felt the hunger
And truly sought to see...

-The Light by Brewer & Shipley


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblepsyillyazul
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5437801 - 03/24/06 10:19 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It seems to me that the literalists cannot discern the mystical because the Eucharist has been a cracker and a cup of alcohol for so long. Seems as though if a mind expanding sacrament were substituted, the literalist could only then gain access to any kind of mystical interpretation. Might this be the longed for "material phenomenon"?? How might someone live the mystical reality of the Bible while obeying the church?? How can this reality be lived if it is not taught by those claiming to "know" GOD??


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Invisiblepsyillyazul
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Re: Acid trip = bible? [Re: psyillyazul]
    #5447279 - 03/27/06 12:25 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Do you know GOD??


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