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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
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Should we eliminate the president?
#5415332 - 03/18/06 08:11 AM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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By that I mean eliminate or significantly reduce the power weilded by the Executive branch of the Federal government?
I do. I think that's the first branch that needs trimming, then the Legislative, and lastly the Judicial.
Then start back over with Executive again.
Repeat until free.
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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unbeliever
Yo Daddy!
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5415367 - 03/18/06 08:37 AM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Baby_Hitler said: By that I mean eliminate or significantly reduce the power weilded by the Executive branch of the Federal government?
I do. I think that's the first branch that needs trimming, then the Legislative, and lastly the Judicial.
Then start back over with Executive again.
Repeat until free.
First step would be having a one term limit and boosting the term itself up to 6 years or so. It's a major waste of time, energy, and money for an incumbent president to have to start campaigning after only a couple years into their term. It's not only a distraction from their actual duties but it also engenders pandering in the form spending and social bills being voted along strict party lines.
-------------------- Happiness is a warm gun...
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: unbeliever]
#5415381 - 03/18/06 08:48 AM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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We'll add that on as a rider on that bill.
What powers specifically should we take away from the presidency.
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5415581 - 03/18/06 11:08 AM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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let us take away his kitchen staff.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Posts: 44,175
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5415594 - 03/18/06 11:13 AM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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I would be all for giving the much of the bureaucratic powers back to the legislative branch. They shouldn't have been able to dump those powers on the executive in the first place.
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: Redstorm]
#5415615 - 03/18/06 11:21 AM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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bureacracy goes hand in hand with the execution of orders, essentially what laws are. If you seek to dismantle bureacracy then the cause needs to be dealt with first.
The president is not really the issue in my opinion. Too much power is given to congress to decide and manufacture laws and policy. They are not held accountable to the "people" enough. Not enouigh people uinderstnad how the system works. They think by going out an voting once every four years they are discharging their patriotic duty, little do they know the real fight for personal freedom takes place when senators and reps are voted for. The masses are incredibly ignoranty of the system and therrefore fail to use it wisley or successfully.
If you limit the laws makers power then you effectively curtail the enforcers power. The president is a show peice, he is actualyy given vey little power, just alot of pomp. There are exceptions, cases whn he over steps his boundaries, some would hollar the wiretapping s an d things like this, but quite simply if he had propsed this to congress, he would have gotten it pushed through. He can hardly do nothing witout congressional endorsement.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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The president can send troops overseas. That's a pretty big power.
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: Redstorm]
#5415685 - 03/18/06 12:02 PM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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only for 90 days without congressional support. Never in a state fo war. may be slightly inaccurate. The number of days may be different, don't have time to verify rigfht now, work.
Framers of the Constitution carefully laid out the decision-making process for war. Pursuant to the document, war is a decision to be made exclusively by the representatives of the people -- the Congress. Only Congress is authorized to declare war, raise and support armies, provide and maintain a navy, and make the rules for these armed forces. There is nothing vague or unclear about the language in Article I, ? 8, clauses 11-16
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unbeliever
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Well I definitely think we need way way shorter term limits for the house/senate too. None of thise life long senator crap. It foments stagnation, corruption and apathy. We need new blood in there.
-------------------- Happiness is a warm gun...
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: unbeliever]
#5415885 - 03/18/06 01:09 PM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
unbeliever said: First step would be having a one term limit and boosting the term itself up to 6 years or so. It's a major waste of time, energy, and money for an incumbent president to have to start campaigning after only a couple years into their term. It's not only a distraction from their actual duties but it also engenders pandering in the form spending and social bills being voted along strict party lines.
Yes! I have believed this for a while, right down to the 6 year term.
Quote:
unbeliever said: Well I definitely think we need way way shorter term limits for the house/senate too. None of thise life long senator crap. It foments stagnation, corruption and apathy. We need new blood in there.
Another Yes! The senators have becomce too Washingtonized.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: DieCommie]
#5415889 - 03/18/06 01:12 PM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
unbeliever said: First step would be having a one term limit and boosting the term itself up to 6 years or so. It's a major waste of time, energy, and money for an incumbent president to have to start campaigning after only a couple years into their term. It's not only a distraction from their actual duties but it also engenders pandering in the form spending and social bills being voted along strict party lines.
Yes! I have believed this for a while, right down to the 6 year term.
Quote:
unbeliever said: Well I definitely think we need way way shorter term limits for the house/senate too. None of thise life long senator crap. It foments stagnation, corruption and apathy. We need new blood in there.
Another Yes! The senators have becomce too Washingtonized.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: Redstorm]
#5416024 - 03/18/06 02:03 PM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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Why would you deny the people the right to choose their representatives? That is what term limits do, you know. If you don't think NYC would have been more than happy to keep voting Rudy in you're crazy. But they weren't given the choice. Term limits are anti-democratic.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
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Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5416025 - 03/18/06 02:04 PM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Term limits are anti-democratic.
The US is not, nor was it ever intended to be, a democracy.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: Silversoul]
#5416042 - 03/18/06 02:11 PM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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Yeah, yeah, yeah (watches Paradigm stroke his......chin). But it does have elected representatives chosen by the people and they should be able to choose pretty much anyone qualified for the job. One thing that should not disqualify someone is previous experience holding the job. Vote 'em in or vote 'em out. Or convict 'em. Prior experience should not be a bar to office holding. Now, if you want to talk term limits for appointees, that's a different pony.
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daimyo
Monticello
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: Redstorm]
#5416966 - 03/18/06 07:40 PM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
unbeliever said: First step would be having a one term limit and boosting the term itself up to 6 years or so. It's a major waste of time, energy, and money for an incumbent president to have to start campaigning after only a couple years into their term. It's not only a distraction from their actual duties but it also engenders pandering in the form spending and social bills being voted along strict party lines.
Yes! I have believed this for a while, right down to the 6 year term.
Quote:
unbeliever said: Well I definitely think we need way way shorter term limits for the house/senate too. None of thise life long senator crap. It foments stagnation, corruption and apathy. We need new blood in there.
Another Yes! The senators have becomce too Washingtonized.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5416977 - 03/18/06 07:43 PM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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What do you want to bet that some NSA computer picked up the name of this thread and an investigation is now underway?
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daimyo
Monticello
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Posts: 7,751
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5416992 - 03/18/06 07:49 PM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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I reported it.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5416998 - 03/18/06 07:53 PM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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How about if we get rid of term limits, but don't allow the president to run two terms in a row.
So then we could just have the same two people for president indefinitely.
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
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Posts: 27,633
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Last seen: 9 hours, 20 minutes
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5417004 - 03/18/06 07:56 PM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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I bet they're thinking "Damn, It's that fuckin Baby Hitler again."
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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spock
journeyman
Registered: 08/26/03
Posts: 1,165
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5417574 - 03/18/06 11:20 PM (18 years, 14 days ago) |
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what scares me(well, i guess they all do really) is the judicial. those fuckers keep their gig for life. i think it's bullshit that the pres, who's only there for 8yrs, can hire some cat who keeps his job for life.
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unbeliever
Yo Daddy!
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5418401 - 03/19/06 10:54 AM (18 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Why would you deny the people the right to choose their representatives? That is what term limits do, you know. If you don't think NYC would have been more than happy to keep voting Rudy in you're crazy. But they weren't given the choice. Term limits are anti-democratic.
Getting rid of lobbying entirely, including all corporate campaign donations, would go a long way to making the system more trustworthy. At which point less restrictions on term limits would be acceptable.
-------------------- Happiness is a warm gun...
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: unbeliever]
#5419328 - 03/19/06 04:36 PM (18 years, 13 days ago) |
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Why would you want to restrict the right of the people to petition their representatives to enact laws to their benefit? Keep in mind that corporations are owned by......people. Not all lobbying is bribery. Neither is contributing to the campaign fund of people who will represent your interests.
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spock
journeyman
Registered: 08/26/03
Posts: 1,165
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5419889 - 03/19/06 06:52 PM (18 years, 13 days ago) |
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the corporations are owned by people sure. those people are a very small minority of people. the money used to petition their representatives to enact laws to their benefit is a majority.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: spock]
#5419912 - 03/19/06 06:58 PM (18 years, 13 days ago) |
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The largest participants in the ownership of public corporations are working people's pension funds.
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spock
journeyman
Registered: 08/26/03
Posts: 1,165
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5419971 - 03/19/06 07:13 PM (18 years, 13 days ago) |
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but who "manages" those funds. the working people who's money that is are not the ones lobbying.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: spock]
#5420085 - 03/19/06 07:56 PM (18 years, 13 days ago) |
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One should hope not
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unbeliever
Yo Daddy!
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5420130 - 03/19/06 08:08 PM (18 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Why would you want to restrict the right of the people to petition their representatives to enact laws to their benefit? Keep in mind that corporations are owned by......people. Not all lobbying is bribery. Neither is contributing to the campaign fund of people who will represent your interests.
Well I happen to think that granting corporations the rights of a citizen might not have been a good idea.. unless they also could get the death penalty.
But really there is just too much disparity in representation between multinational conglomerates and... me.. or you. Corporations should not be able to lobby. If those people you mention who own the company want to petition, they should be kept to the same level of involvement the average citizen is. Writing letters, creating petitions, voting, maybe trying to organize an interview or meeting them at public events. And etc.
Corporations sending congress critters on free cruises is not in the country's best interest.
-------------------- Happiness is a warm gun...
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newuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5420393 - 03/19/06 09:12 PM (18 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Why would you want to restrict the right of the people to petition their representatives to enact laws to their benefit? Keep in mind that corporations are owned by......people. Not all lobbying is bribery. Neither is contributing to the campaign fund of people who will represent your interests.
Corporations are owned by people but they are not in and of themselves people. A corporation receives the rights of personhood yet few or non of its responsibilities. I have no problem with Corporate lobbying if all corporate welfare is eliminated along with damn near all government restrictions on private commerce.
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5422202 - 03/20/06 12:03 PM (18 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Yeah, yeah, yeah (watches Paradigm stroke his......chin). But it does have elected representatives chosen by the people and they should be able to choose pretty much anyone qualified for the job. One thing that should not disqualify someone is previous experience holding the job. Vote 'em in or vote 'em out. Or convict 'em. Prior experience should not be a bar to office holding. Now, if you want to talk term limits for appointees, that's a different pony.
I agree, appointees in particular should be susceptible to rerm limits. Things Like supreme court nominees and judges should definately be voted on. That is the problem with a representational democracy. Our elceted representatives make our decisions for us, only aswering to the various polls and collected ballots come election time.
It seems right to me that if a man or woman runs things right they should be allowed to remain in office as long as the people choose to leave them there.
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JonnyOnTheSpot
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Loc: North Carolina
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5435197 - 03/23/06 05:03 PM (18 years, 9 days ago) |
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can you imagine how many more people would lose interest in politics without their singing dancing be-all end-all king figure? an average person would lose all interest in the whole process. hmm, that could be a good thing though.
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Mirth
`'{*;*}'`
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Re: Should we eliminate the president? [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
#5436113 - 03/23/06 09:53 PM (18 years, 9 days ago) |
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'My fellow Amphibians. I want to thank you for voting me in as your Steradent for a second worm in office. For that I will be eternally grapefruit. I sit before you to let you know that I have oblitified the Demogorgon John Sherry, and me and my fellow neo-contortionists can do whatever we like....and we intend to. You have given your Decadent a mandible. We lubricated the Girraffi people by turning that country into a cemetery. We rid Afpakistan of Ossama John Lennon, dealt with Colonic Gaddaffi, and we will now lubricate their next door neighbours, West Korean, a country run by the evil Darth Vader."
-------------------- The ineffable is not always intangible !
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