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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: rationality [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5412143 - 03/17/06 10:29 AM (18 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
There are numerous possible reasons who can be argued from with rationality. Some reasons even are contradictious. But I think that has been said before.
:thumbup:




It has also already been stated that, if such contradictions exist, then, within the bounds of rationality, there is an error, which is to state, of course, that one is irrational.

Rationality and consistency seem to go hand-in-hand. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: rationality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5412587 - 03/17/06 12:36 PM (18 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

It has also already been stated that, if such contradictions exist, then, within the bounds of rationality, there is an error, which is to state, of course, that one is irrational.

Rationality and consistency seem to go hand-in-hand.




That thinking can lead to the same potential problem of "believing you are in the correct way of being as long as you are not contradicting yourself and being consistent".

It's not to say that repetition does not hold true time after time. It does. So what?  It's saying that what is not allowed to change can not further develop or evolve itself.

People who live within non contradiction and consistency live like a broken record never allowing themselves to move on to new methods or perspectives. In some cases that may be a good thing and in some, it may not.

You ain't nothing but a hound dog *skip
You ain't nothing but a hound dog *skip
You ain't nothing but a hound dog *skip
You ain't nothing but a hound dog *skip
You ain't nothing but a hound dog *skip

No contradictions there and total consistency. The skip allows for complete predictability in the lyrics to come.

What if car makers stayed consistent in their methods since the first model was made? No progress. Was it irrational or in error for them to break with consistency and install DVD players when a new option to add came into play?

Look at the process of maturing. As a child you are told by adults not to question authority and to do as you are told.

Later on, adults start telling you to question authority. Because it is contrary to what you first learned, does that make it an irrational thing in error of you to do in your adult life?

Say you own a restaurant and your business is a success because of your secret recipe apple pie. It is vital that your chefs consistently follow the recipe to produce the same product the customers expect to get. Here-consistency of that philosophy serves your business goals well to make money.

Say a Joe Blow opens a restaurant across the street. He makes his apple pie Lo cal. You're philosophy has always been that your pie is to perfect to ever modify.

Your customers are concerned about getting fat from eating all that pie so they start going to Joe Blows and you start loosing revenue.

Is it rational for you to keep consistent in your philosophy just to remain "correct" in your thinking and go out of business?

Would it be in error for you to modify the recipe making the pie you sell Lo Cal?

There are many examples in life where the rational thing to do is to break from consistency and contradict yourself if you are going to grow, survive and thrive.

Rationality and consistency may seem to go hand in hand and keep you from amking an error, yet in reality, they don't always nor should they where growth is taking place. :smile:

We all live in a yellow submarine *skip
We all live in a yellow submarine *skip
We all live in a yellow submarine *skip
We all live in a yellow submarine *skip
We all live in a yellow submarine *skip

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: rationality [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5412771 - 03/17/06 01:22 PM (18 years, 16 days ago)

That was very :heart:-full and wisely said ! Again I am lacking words... laters :blush:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: rationality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5412831 - 03/17/06 01:34 PM (18 years, 16 days ago)

Ah yes, you remember the term 'half-knowledge' ? This kind of knowledge especially tends to lead the ego to reasonings which are settled in some contradictous 'realms of existence'...for example.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Posts: 24,855
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Re: rationality [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5413264 - 03/17/06 03:11 PM (18 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
That thinking can lead to the same potential problem of "believing you are in the correct way of being as long as you are not contradicting yourself and being consistent".




Take it further from what it is to any place that you wish, but I don't see what this has to do with rationality or its relationship with consistency. :lol:

Quote:

It's not to say that repetition does not hold true time after time. It does. So what?  It's saying that what is not allowed to change can not further develop or evolve itself.




Rationality does not imply that something is not allowed to further develop, change, or evolve.

Quote:


People who live within non contradiction and consistency live like a broken record never allowing themselves to move on to new methods or perspectives. In some cases that may be a good thing and in some, it may not.




Once more, I don't comprehend what your tangent has to do with rationality. As has already been stated in this thread, rationality, logic, etc., is about a system of thought that has been properly constructed in terms of the laws that govern rationality and logic. How this relates with whatever it is that you are alluding to escapes me.

Quote:


What if car makers stayed consistent in their methods since the first model was made? No progress.




So what? This does not pertain to rationality or the discussion thereof.

Quote:


Was it irrational or in error for them to break with consistency and install DVD players when a new option to add came into play?




Rationality is a system of thought. Consistency is in regards to the fact that one does not hold opposing thoughts or lines of logic that negate or contradict each other. It has nothing to do with eternally concrete thoughts. :lol:

Quote:


Look at the process of maturing. As a child you are told by adults not to question authority and to do as you are told.




The process of maturing has nothing to do with rationality as it is being discussed.

Quote:


Later on, adults start telling you to question authority. Because it is contrary to what you first learned, does that make it an irrational thing in error of you to do in your adult life?




Systems of thought evolve. None of this addresses consistency within one's rationality.

Quote:


Is it rational for you to keep consistent in your philosophy just to remain "correct" in your thinking and go out of business?




Maybe it is rational, maybe it is not, as it lies dependant on your system of rationality. That which is being discussed is consistency in application of the laws of logic, as mushman has stated. Your topic that you have created would perhaps be better off in a new thread, since it does not relate at all to this discussion, beyond the fact that you are using some of the same words. :lol:

Quote:


Would it be in error for you to modify the recipe making the pie you sell Lo Cal?




A question for the ages, nonetheless not pertaining to consistency within one's system of rationality.

Quote:


There are many examples in life where the rational thing to do is to break from consistency and contradict yourself if you are going to grow, survive and thrive.




Most indubiantly, and, for whatever reason, you have consistently listed many of these examples. Each one demonstrates quite well how one should not behave in the same manner consistently, but yet none of them have the faintest hint of having to do with consistent application of the laws of rationality and logic within one's rationality.

Quote:


Rationality and consistency may seem to go hand in hand and keep you from amking an error, yet in reality, they don't always nor should they where growth is taking place. :smile:




Perhaps if you would not blur two entirely different subjects simply because both employ the same word, you would not come to such baseless conclusions.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
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Re: rationality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5413355 - 03/17/06 03:38 PM (18 years, 16 days ago)

Tangent? :confused:  Relax dude! :getstoned:

I just thoughtfully considered the statement you made that rationality and consistency seemed to go together.

I found that wasn't always the case where growth and change is involved and gave some easy to understand examples.

I NEVER said that rational thinking did not allow for change. To the contrary, I showed that it does and when it does, it has to break something that was consistent and that change may also result in a contradiction of the former.  :smile:

I have to jet to TKD now. :japsmile:

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: rationality [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5413423 - 03/17/06 04:02 PM (18 years, 16 days ago)

:shocked:

I thought I was replying to bluecoyote. :eek:

Something very strange is going on here... please do not misinterpret the tone of and points within my post. My mind is not firing correctly as it is. I thought I was replying to bluecoyote, and that my statement was being misconstrued as meaning something else, which provoked a huge response to something which wasn't even being discussed. :lol:

As I was saying, consistency in application of the laws of logic/rationality, etc. etc. etc., what mushmanthemantic said. I think it is bedtime. :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: rationality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5414159 - 03/17/06 06:13 PM (18 years, 15 days ago)

(Reply to no-one in particular.)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic saidth:
Our primary ideas about the universe appear to be made up of contingent truths (logically, they can be either true or false), and rationalism alone cannot help us verify or refute them. For example, its logically possible for me to be bald, with rationalism, we can rule out the possibility that I am bald and not-bald, but whether I am actually bald or not, logic cannot decide.




Rationalism is all about being coherent, but being coherent doesn't necessarily make things any more truthful (especially when a major or minor premise is unsound. Ex: "I should marry everything I love").

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: rationality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5414880 - 03/18/06 12:17 AM (18 years, 15 days ago)

Hehe, fireworks :wink: Here I am, behind the other bush called 'half-knowledge' :wink:
[I looked up the german word 'Halbwissen' what is a doubleword in german, made out of 'half' and 'knowledge'. The dictionary gave me the word 'smattering' for it ?!]


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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