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DaCultivater
Stranger
Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 289
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Well...GOD HATES ME
#5410033 - 03/16/06 08:07 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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so i have been trying to grow with wbs for about 5 months. no success. first i tryed lc which i pc'd to long i guess because it was caramel colored. but the mucelium seemed to grow fine so i knocked up some wbs jars which i soaked for 24-36 hours then rinced then strained thouroughly then pc'd for 1:15-1:30 minutes at 15 psi. the mycelium grew for about a week then basicly stopped b4 the jars were 1/2 colonised. i threw them out when i relized 3 weeks later that they were not about to ever finish. i made a new lc which i did not over cook and was perfectly clear i knocked that up and the mycelium barly grew at all, but what did grow i used to knock up wbs jars which grew then stopped at about the same time as the last ones and never fully colonised. no sighn of any contam in any jars so far so i have no idea why they didn't work. at first i thought it was the moisture content running out so i rinced and strained but left a little more moisture on the wbs instead of straining for as long as i did the last time. used the 2nd lc and knocked them up... same as last ones. no growth past about half. i use a tit at a temp of 83 degrees f i thought that might be the problem so i turned it up... 86 degrees and yet still no growth in the newest of the jars (all stopped at about half again). so after that i gave up on lc. (the 2 strains were costarican and eq). after this i decided (after much reading) that what i needed was a isolated strain that would grow faster and stronger. so i baut some petri dishes and some agar (PDA). made 20 dishes and knocked half up with bolth of the old lc(kind of an experiment) and the other half with a new costa rican spore syringe. they grew fine but quite slowly it toom about 2 1/2 weeks till they were about 75% colonised (which is too long i think) but there were some with some faster growing rizomorphic areas on some of them so i made another set of agar dishes and transferd the rizos. they took about the same amount of time to colonize as the last and then i knocked up some wbs with it(there were only 2 dishes with contam). thoes seemed to grow fast execpt for like 4 of them which barely grew at alland thn when they were about a week old they were about 25-35% colonised (which is to slow) i tryed to shake them but the peices would not break apart so i shook them till the colonised piece in each one was in the exact middle of all the other wbs in the jar. they grew till they were about 50-70% colonise in about 3-4 weeks total and then stopped. so... i was trying to think what the proble could be... all i could think of was that mabey the water i was using from the tap was of shuch poor quality that it was causing the problem (to hard mebey or wrong ph?) so i tested the ph and it 7.5 which is perfect i don't know how to test the "hardness" if thats even possible. so i made some new agar dishs and knocke dthem up with a new costa rican spore syringe... NO RIZOMORPHIC AREAS AT ALL IN 10 DISHES!?!?!?!? i trancfered peices of the 3 or 4 best growing ones on to 20 more...every single one had pink mold. so thats been the last 5 months for me. 0% sucsess rate about 15% contam no ideas as to why it doesn't work GOD HATES ME
hear are some of my procedures
wbs: soak for 24-36 hours strain rince thouroghly drain till no drops fall out of strainer (takes about 15 min with my mesh strainer)
jars: 5 nail holes in the top of each (the jars used in my little story were half gal) i fill about 2/3 of the way ,tyveck on top then the lid, tin foil on top pc'd for 1 and 12 hour aprox, shaken when pc reaches 0 psi (as soon as) and then shaken one more time when almost cool.
agar: folow recipy on container pc 30 min at 15psi poured about 3to6 millameters thick.
sterril box: clear plastic storrage contaner 2 holes cut 4inch 4inch pvs fitted into the holes sylicone sealed rubber dishwashing gloves glued and package taped on. before every use i wash all inside sides with alcahol then lysol sprayed in and then closed and wait for lysol to settal thne wipe all thing going into the box get whiped down with alcahol b4 entering the box then once everything is put in the box i spray lysol in the box and close quickly then wait till lysol settels till i start my work.
Tools: when i use anything for inockulation i flame sterilize till glowing red with alchahol lamp then hold in alcahol soaked paper towel till cool and then use.
my tit is just that a simple tit with fishtank heater. i clean b4 putting anything new in there with bleach water and alchahol then let all evaporate with it oped then i spray with lysol and let settle with it closed then put things in it.
well as you can see i am very frustrated the last set of petri dishes were contaminated and i know that that is my fault, obviously i didn't keep condishions steril enough (even though i am very carfull and sterril) but everything els i can't explain so if any of you more experianced guys can give me some pointers and or tell me whats wrong with my techniques that would be greatly appreciated. AND IF YOUR STUMPED TO FEEL FREE TO ASK ME ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU NEED SPACIFICS OF MY TECHNIQUES SO YOU CAN BETTER MAKE JUDGMENTS ON WHY I AM HAVING SO MUCH PROBLEMS. OR IF YOU THINK I HAVE BEEN DOING THE RIGHT THINGS THEN JUST TELL ME GOD HATES ME (I THINK HE DOES)
so thanks for any help
-cult
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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cappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
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God doesn't hate you. Your incubator is just too hot.
-------------------- Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't. ~Cappa.
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MindsEye
AMT Fiend


Registered: 02/20/06
Posts: 645
Loc: cerebral cortex
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Wow thats a novel you wrote there, didnt get all of it.
The only advise I can give you is dont give up, Im almost ashamed of this but I struggled for 1 year to even grow 1 shroom (I didnt have the shroomery and I was following poorly writen teks, such as shroom wizard) You are at the right spot, if need be start at the PF tek until you get a grasp of how shrooms grow.
-------------------- Easy Poo Cake Tek
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DaCultivater
Stranger
Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 289
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: Well...GOD HATES ME [Re: MindsEye]
#5410062 - 03/16/06 08:14 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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incubater is supposed to be at 80-85 optimal
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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DaCultivater
Stranger
Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 289
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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sorry i am not very good at writing so it might be a little longer and miss spelled than i meant for it to be (lol it is a damn novel...a novel of failier)
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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stelthvue
is frightened ofpoo
Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 272
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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hey, dont worry about it. im on my 4th or 5th grow now and im NOW just getting mycellium. all my past grows had none whatsoever. ive been trying since around november. dont give up, be persistant. itll pay off in the end.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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UBA77
drummerboy
Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 60
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
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Dacultivater don't fret bro i started with brf then moved to rye berrier 12-24hr soak then boil water take off the stove put your rye in found at most health food stores in bulk 53 cents a lb. leave it in there apx.20-40 min with top on 'no heat' strain and let dry for 30 mins to 1 hr. fill your jars pc for 1hr 15psi. make sure you have a hloe in the metal lid filled with polyfill(pillowcase filler) or covered with tyvek with rubberband and finally cover with foil and rubber band. innoc and put the water temp in your tit at 80deg. your jars will produce some of there own heat so 86 is way to high. just flushed 300 grams wet from rye spawned to poo. this is my 2nd grow first with poo get some i used mike's at tennessee stud worked great rye to me is the easiest way to go other farmers do it their way by the way God hates no one, do that and no worries follow hyphae's pinning strategy in the Faq.
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onetime
onetime


Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 3,609
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Well...GOD HATES ME [Re: UBA77]
#5410147 - 03/16/06 08:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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god dosent hate any one.
--------------------
See? Yes, with my own three eyes. Depression, Misspells , wanting everying thing i cant have haveing nothing i want
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mushboy
modboy


Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,275
Loc: where?
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Re: Well...GOD HATES ME [Re: onetime]
#5410168 - 03/16/06 08:46 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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god hates himself.
DaCultivater: change your name to "De-Cultivater" lol Im kidding. JUST STICK WITH IT!!. my first grow was with bags from crappy sporebank.(i didnt know about shroomery . I had pins but i somehow managed to rip my bag and it got green mold all over it because my finger touched the substrate like seconds after intense nose picking.
Each time you grow, or try to grow you will become that much better at it.
Ive learned shrooms are like sex. the first time you stand a good chance to suck at it, but over time you learn to DO it the right way:P Its easier for us with a ....thirdleg
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cappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
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Re: Well...GOD HATES ME [Re: UBA77]
#5410179 - 03/16/06 08:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Their's a differnce between substrate and mycellium being 80-85 and an aquarium heater being 'set' to 86.
Perhaps you could throw in a thermometer and check the temps in multiple places, after 12 hours of being undisturbed?
-------------------- Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't. ~Cappa.
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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You have the right idea shaking the jars. If it clumps at 30%, try shaking a little sooner next time, once the mycelium colonizes an area, it will knit tighter over time. Also, the more grain in the jar, the harder to shake. Load your jars 2/3 or less for best results.
Edit: don't worry about pushing your incubation temps, my jars colonize at room temp (72) in a cardboard box.
Rahz
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
Edited by Rahz (03/16/06 09:02 PM)
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mushboy
modboy


Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,275
Loc: where?
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Re: Well...GOD HATES ME [Re: mushboy]
#5410187 - 03/16/06 08:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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oh yah!
half gallon jars are quite large. even though it pales in yield and potency, try the PF tek first.
baby steps
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DaCultivater
Stranger
Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 289
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: Well...GOD HATES ME [Re: mushboy]
#5410212 - 03/16/06 09:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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in the original post i did state that the jars were 2/3s or less full.
i am going to use quart jars this next time (i just orderd some more petri dishes so i'm waiting on them)
and with the jars in the incubater it was 84 without it was around 81 (i did say 86 but i just looked at a little log that i kept but no longer keep)
ty for all the encourgment but i can not procede when i have no answers on what is stopping growth. if i make more jars doing the same thing again the stuff will do the exact same thing as it has done b4. it will be a big waste of time unless i have some way to fix my problem
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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cappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
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Re: Well...GOD HATES ME [Re: mushboy]
#5410242 - 03/16/06 09:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Shaking is good, but I doubt that's the problem. His agar plates failed as well. If I read that right, his contamination issue is seperate, since he had several stalled jars beforehand and only some of his petri dishes contammed. Using the scientific method, with the information we have at hand, we're left with only so many things. Air exchange, temperature, moisture content, light issues(hopefully the TiT is not exposed to direct sunlight or some weird spectrum, like under a HPS or metal halide), chemical retardants(fungicides, bleach getting to the myc, etc), and I think mechanical damage can be ruled out.
Temperature effects several different factors at the same time. That is why I suspect it being an issue. Too high of temps = non optimum growth + moisture loss. It could easily be a deciding factor in stalling jars and petri dishes. I discount too low of temp because after 5 months, even at a lower than optimum temp, some of those jars would be colonized.
Just something I think you should look at DC. Remember that once myc starts kicking some ass, the temp inside your jars is greater than the temp of your incubator.
-------------------- Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't. ~Cappa.
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Well, there's some hints in here. I'll list what I would have changed.
Use quart jars (as mentioned). I've read many posts where old hands say jars larger than quarts are a no no.
Shake sooner, you want that mycelium distributed evenly throughout the jars.
Lower incubation temps, WBS jars dont need the same heat as PF jars, mine colonize at 72. It's possible the heat you're using is hindering growth.
Also, I've read many times where people will shake at 15% and then shake again a few days later. I've never had to do this, but it might help if you're having trouble.
Rahz
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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MindsEye
AMT Fiend


Registered: 02/20/06
Posts: 645
Loc: cerebral cortex
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Re: Well...GOD HATES ME [Re: mushboy]
#5410245 - 03/16/06 09:10 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: I had pins but i somehow managed to rip my bag and it got green mold all over it because my finger touched the substrate like seconds after intense nose picking.
ROFL
-------------------- Easy Poo Cake Tek
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DaCultivater
Stranger
Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 289
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: Well...GOD HATES ME [Re: MindsEye]
#5410292 - 03/16/06 09:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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with air exchange isn't 5x 1-2 mm holes isn't enough? or were you ruling that out?
are you saying that you incubate your jars at 72 degrees?
cappa , so since the agar plates (the first 2 sets ) didn't colonise in a decent amount of time and none of the jars did either, do you think it could be the temp? and i know many people say that simmering the wbs is good but i've also seen many saying that it is not nessissarry so you think water content could be the problem? i don't think so(it seems that feild consinstancy would be universal wether dealing with wbs or poo. and the wbs i make seems to be just right)
well cappa you have been quite helpfull in sparking some thoughts
and rhaz you have also given me some ideas but i still find it hard to beleive that you incubate at 72 degrees and if you do i'd think that it would take like a month for them to colonise
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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cappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
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Ya 72 is too low for incubation, that's a fruiting temperature.
Use a medical thermometer(the kind for when you're sick) and get the floor of your incubator around 82 degrees F. Then cover that bitch up with a blanket! Check it twice a day. As the myc starts kicking ass, the temp will go up. Adjust accordingly by removing the blanket or cooling/heating the room itself.
With WBS moisture content is ESSENTIAL. I'm doing a side-by-side grow with soemone else and their jars stalled due to not having enough moisture. Try the 'easy soak and simmer' tek. Observation of your WBS while hydrating it is probably the most important thing. Just because 12 hours of soaking works for someone, doesn't mean shit to you. It's hydrated when it's hydrated.
Five 2mm holes sounds like it would be close, maybe a little more wouldn't hurt, especially if you're using tyvek. I myself have used one 3/8" hole in the center, stuffed with polyfill, and a triple layer of coffee filters over that. It has worked fine for me( 9 day full colonization on WBS ).
-------------------- Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't. ~Cappa.
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MindsEye
AMT Fiend


Registered: 02/20/06
Posts: 645
Loc: cerebral cortex
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Re: Well...GOD HATES ME [Re: cappa]
#5410337 - 03/16/06 09:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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If you go to the aquarium section of walmart you can get good old fashioned thermometers filled with mercury for 2 bucks....
-------------------- Easy Poo Cake Tek
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DaCultivater
Stranger
Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 289
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: Well...GOD HATES ME [Re: MindsEye]
#5410366 - 03/16/06 09:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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i just really really don't want to have to simmer, do you think that ther is no way to get the correct moisture content soaking only or do you think that its ok? i am using an acurate thermomiter but it is at the top of the incubater and i have always had a blanket over it. what you think about comparring field capasity in wbs and poo?
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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