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Offlinekilroy69
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Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence
    #5403726 - 03/15/06 02:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry for the language but this mother fucker can't die soon enough. They should take him out of the court room and shoot him right then and there.




SARASOTA, Fla. - A former mechanic convicted of raping and murdering 11-year-old Carlie Brucia, whose abduction was caught on a car wash security camera, was sentenced to death Wednesday for her murder.

The jury that convicted Joseph P. Smith in November had recommended by a vote of 10-2 that he be executed.

Smith, 39, showed no emotion Wednesday as state Circuit Judge Andrew Owens read the official sentences ? death for the murder count and life in prison for kidnapping and sexual battery.

Last month, Smith had tearfully apologized during a hearing, saying: "I take responsibility of my crimes. I don't understand how this could have happened. ... Every day I think about what I did and beg God for forgiveness."

He said he had taken heroin and cocaine in an attempt to kill himself before he abducted Carlie on Feb. 1, 2004. Smith said he didn't remember much about that day and asked Owens to spare him for the sake of his family. His attorney, Adam Tebrugge, argued that Smith could lead a productive life in prison and be a positive influence on his three daughters if he was spared.

Owens discounted those arguments Wednesday. He said Carlie suffered "unspeakable terror and physical suffering" at Smith's hands.

Carlie's body was found four days after her disappearance on the grounds of a Sarasota church. News of the crime shook the community, and hundreds turned out for memorial services.

Absent from the courtroom was Carlie's mother, Susan Schorpen, who is in jail in Pinellas County on drug and prostitution charges. She has said the pain of losing her daughter led her to institutionalize herself three times and take drugs to numb the pain.


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: kilroy69]
    #5403738 - 03/15/06 02:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

wouldnt a life sentence be worse than death though? i mean, in death he will just dispear or whatever. but in jail he will het his booty taken, day after day. eat bad food and have unfashionable clothes. he will smell like pecan pie and he wont get to see the light of day.
i think life is a worse punishment.
but then again, it depends on what he would want, if he wants life, then kill him! but if he wants to jsut get it over with, give him life.


and i dont get how losing your daughter would make you prostitute yourself...


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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Offlinekilroy69
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: eligal]
    #5403771 - 03/15/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I would like to think that until he does get put to death OZ like things will happen to him.


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Offlinekilroy69
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: eligal]
    #5403790 - 03/15/06 02:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

and i dont get how losing your daughter would make you prostitute yourself.


I can see where you are coming from but I can't even Imagine loosing my kid like that. Grief makes people do really odd things.


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Invisiblevinsue
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: eligal]
    #5403798 - 03/15/06 02:34 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Deserves to die...ASAP... save the tax payers some money...BTW I think anybody doing life {or less} should be allowed to check out with cyanide or whatever hotshot the courts could allow...


--------------------

"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ...
  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:


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InvisibleStonerguy
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: vinsue]
    #5403807 - 03/15/06 02:36 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think he will be shanked in atleast 3 weeks.

Remember that Preacher that got sent to jail on child molestation? He didn't last 2 weeks. He got killed THROUGH a locked cell.


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Invisiblevinsue
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Stonerguy]
    #5403837 - 03/15/06 02:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

He got killed THROUGH a locked cell.


.... Jailhouse justice... :handth:


--------------------

"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ...
  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: eligal]
    #5403850 - 03/15/06 02:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

eligal said:
wouldnt a life sentence be worse than death though?




no. life sentances are usualy between 7 and 14 years, parole is usualy given at
the 7 year mark.


Quote:

i mean, in death he will just dispear or whatever. but in jail he will het his booty taken, day after day. eat bad food and have unfashionable clothes. he will smell like pecan pie and he wont get to see the light of day.
i think life is a worse punishment.




you really want to pay $100k+ per year to support a murdering pedophile? thats
what it costs to house a state prisoner, lets assume he lives for 30 more years
thats 3 million payed out for a man that raped an 11yo girl and then brutaly
killed her, sure the food isnt the greatest in prison but it's better than
eating at Krystals or Wendys, sure he might get raped and beaten but then again
he may get protection or may be the one doing the raping, he'll have 3 hots
and a cot for the 30 years.

guess what else he can get, DRUGS, lots of drugs go through the prison system,
my dad never touched heroin until he went to prison for murder, he was out in 3
years, doesnt sound so bad when you think about the fact that it's just a boys
club with drugs, if prison were really as bad as they make it out to be, why
are there so many repeat offenders?




Quote:

and i dont get how losing your daughter would make you prostitute yourself...




whats an 11yo girl doing hanging out at a carwash? maybe mom was a prostitute
before then, regardless, people do strange whit when they lose a child. start
taking drugs like crack or meth, they gotta pay for the drugs some how, the
choices for women are usualy theft or prostitution, one tends to come naturaly

I say fry the fucker, you hear the claims that the death penalty isnt a deterant
but the murder rate in the UK climbed when they did away with capitol punishment
they're talking about bringing it back, even if it's not a deterant for most,
the perpetrator wont ever kill again, seems like a deterant to me.


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InvisibleHELLA_TIGHT
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Stonerguy]
    #5403864 - 03/15/06 02:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Stonerguy said:
Remember that Preacher that got sent to jail on child molestation?




No, link?


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InvisibleStonerguy
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
    #5403886 - 03/15/06 02:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)



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InvisibleHELLA_TIGHT
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Stonerguy]
    #5403906 - 03/15/06 02:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"John Geoghan was trapped in his cell, strangled and stomped to death by Joseph Druce, a homophobic fellow inmate already serving life without possibility of parole for killing a man who allegedly made a sexual pass at him after picking Druce up hitchhiking."

pwnage


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OfflineLuNaTiX
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: kilroy69]
    #5403997 - 03/15/06 03:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

thats awful


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OfflineSleepAid
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #5404180 - 03/15/06 03:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

My step father (A therapist) thinks that anyone who does things like this should be given massive amounts of LSD and be made to listen to the person's family.

I'd have to say I agree with him.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: SleepAid]
    #5404739 - 03/15/06 05:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I say throw this guy in with the general population at any prison that is notorious for violence. Pedophiles and child killers are always targeted by fellow inmates. This guy would last about five minutes out on the yard.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: SleepAid]
    #5404747 - 03/15/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

LSD is not always the answer, I can do heavy doses of LSD and still function,
I talked my way out of several criminal charges on large doses, 24 hits
in my system and carried on a conversation with my mom while on a trip to
grandmas house

in the instance of this guy, he should be skinned alive with a pair of vice grips


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
    #5404761 - 03/15/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

HellaMeister said:
"John Geoghan was trapped in his cell, strangled and stomped to death by Joseph Druce, a homophobic fellow inmate already serving life without possibility of parole for killing a man who allegedly made a sexual pass at him after picking Druce up hitchhiking."

pwnage




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Invisibleeligal
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: vinsue]
    #5404975 - 03/15/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

vinsue said:
Deserves to die...ASAP... save the tax payers some money...BTW I think anybody doing life {or less} should be allowed to check out with cyanide or whatever hotshot the courts could allow...




dude, read my thread, it is much mroe expensive to execute someone do to all the legal barriers... if you want to save tax payers some money, you will keep him with a life sentence.


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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OfflineDeadmaker
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: eligal]
    #5404983 - 03/15/06 06:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, all the appeals that they get cost the taxpayers a fucking fortune.


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5404999 - 03/15/06 06:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

eligal said:
wouldnt a life sentence be worse than death though?




no. life sentances are usualy between 7 and 14 years, parole is usualy given at
the 7 year mark.


Quote:

i mean, in death he will just dispear or whatever. but in jail he will het his booty taken, day after day. eat bad food and have unfashionable clothes. he will smell like pecan pie and he wont get to see the light of day.
i think life is a worse punishment.




you really want to pay $100k+ per year to support a murdering pedophile? thats
what it costs to house a state prisoner, lets assume he lives for 30 more years
thats 3 million payed out for a man that raped an 11yo girl and then brutaly
killed her




first, its calles life without parol. also, they do give multiple life sentences (two life times worth of time spent in prison).

second, as mentioned, it costs more to execute someone than to keep them alive. :thumbup:


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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InvisibleStonerguy
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Deadmaker]
    #5405006 - 03/15/06 06:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Anti-capital punishment campaigners in America sight the higher cost of executing someone over life in prison, but this (whilst true for America) has to do with the endless appeals and delays in carrying out death sentences that are allowed under the American legal system where the average time spent on death row is over 11 years. In Britain in the 20th century, the average time in the condemned cell was less than 8 weeks and there was only one appeal.

I say we go with the UKs approach.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: eligal]
    #5405028 - 03/15/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

eligal said:


dude, read my thread, it is much mroe expensive to execute someone do to all the legal barriers... if you want to save tax payers some money, you will keep him with a life sentence.




wrong.


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Offlinekilroy69
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
    #5405044 - 03/15/06 06:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I remember when that happened to Geoghan. I know it sounds evil but I actually laughed when I heard about it. He got just what he deserved.


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Edited by kilroy69 (03/15/06 06:37 PM)


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: kilroy69]
    #5405100 - 03/15/06 06:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

kilroy69 said:
I remember when that happened to Geoghan. I know it sounds evil but I actually laughed when I heard about it. He got just what he deserved.




Hell yeah. Did you see that fucking scumbag priest act all indignant when he was sentenced to prison? He was like, "I shouldn't be punished like this". I smiled when I saw on the news that he'd been offed. I hope that piece of shit suffered as the life ebbed from him.


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Offlinekilroy69
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5405186 - 03/15/06 06:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

THAT IS EXACTLY THE REASON. Holy shit. Thats what I remember most about it was the fact that he did not even seem like he had any remorse.


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5405234 - 03/15/06 07:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

eligal said:


dude, read my thread, it is much mroe expensive to execute someone do to all the legal barriers... if you want to save tax payers some money, you will keep him with a life sentence.




wrong.




its easy to make blank statements isnt it. how about proving it.


" Fact: The death penalty is extraordinarily expensive. Contrary to popular
intuition, a system with a death penalty is vastly more expensive than
one where the maximum penalty is keeping murderers in prison for life.
A 1982 New York study estimated the death penalty cost conservatively at
three times that of life imprisonment, the ratio that Texas (with a system
that is on the brink of collapse due to underfunding) has experienced.
In Florida, each execution runs the state $3,200,000--six times the expense
of life imprisonment. California has succeeded in executing just two defendants
(one a volunteer) since 1976, but could save about $90,000,000 per year
by abolishing the death penalty and resentencing all of its Death Row inmates
to life."


and lets not forget that prisons provide work for our hard working tax payers.


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5405241 - 03/15/06 07:10 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
I say throw this guy in with the general population at any prison that is notorious for violence. Pedophiles and child killers are always targeted by fellow inmates. This guy would last about five minutes out on the yard.




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InvisibleBurke Dennings
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: eligal]
    #5405246 - 03/15/06 07:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Where'd you get that info?

I've heard that all my life from various people, and I fail to understand how execution is more costly than lifelong incarceration.


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #5405257 - 03/15/06 07:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

basically before we can execute someone in america, we need to prove them guilty, by all means. and this means several court appeals n such. which is payed by the state.
basically going through all the safe guards to try and stop from executing someone who is actually innocent (or whos crime was not at the extent of what was previously thought).


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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Offlinerockytop83
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: kilroy69]
    #5405265 - 03/15/06 07:14 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

How come we cant still do things like our founding fathers would have? When we sentence someone to life all we are doing is putting them in an early retirement home, with A/C, Heat, square meals, television, etc. Granted the food might not be the best, and you dont ever get to see the sunrise. Back in the day we would have hung this same person in the streets of downtown to SET AN EXAMPLE. People hear about the death penalty now a days but its not quite broadcasted on cable TV. I think there would be a lot less crime if the general public had a chance to watch the death of every convicted felon. I bet Washington, Franklin, and the rest of the boys are just rolling in their graves about now.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: rockytop83]
    #5405280 - 03/15/06 07:18 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

What would George Washington and Ben Franklin be saying right now if they were alive?


"Help! Help! Let me out of this box! It's dark in here!"


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InvisibleBurke Dennings
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: eligal]
    #5405291 - 03/15/06 07:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

eligal said:
basically before we can execute someone in america, we need to prove them guilty, by all means. and this means several court appeals n such. which is payed by the state.
basically going through all the safe guards to try and stop from executing someone who is actually innocent (or whos crime was not at the extent of what was previously thought).




This is a bogus argument. Before someone can be locked away for life there needs to be a trial proving them guilty. And just because they didn't get the death penalty doesn't mean they can't appeal.


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #5405316 - 03/15/06 07:24 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PLUR, LOL said:
Quote:

eligal said:
basically before we can execute someone in america, we need to prove them guilty, by all means. and this means several court appeals n such. which is payed by the state.
basically going through all the safe guards to try and stop from executing someone who is actually innocent (or whos crime was not at the extent of what was previously thought).




This is a bogus argument. Before someone can be locked away for life there needs to be a trial proving them guilty. And just because they didn't get the death penalty doesn't mean they can't appeal.




is that not what i said??


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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Invisibleeligal
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: rockytop83]
    #5405323 - 03/15/06 07:25 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

rockytop83 said:
How come we cant still do things like our founding fathers would have?  When we sentence someone to life all we are doing is putting them in an early retirement home, with A/C, Heat, square meals, television, etc.  Granted the food might not be the best, and you dont ever get to see the sunrise.  Back in the day we would have hung this same person in the streets of downtown to SET AN EXAMPLE.  People hear about the death penalty now a days but its not quite broadcasted on cable TV.  I think there would be a lot less crime if the general public had a chance to watch the death of every convicted felon.  I bet Washington, Franklin, and the rest of the boys are just rolling in their graves about now.




reminds me of, china was it?, where they had a channel on tv where you could see criminals get killed and/or tortured.... :crazy:


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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InvisibleBurke Dennings
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: eligal]
    #5405325 - 03/15/06 07:25 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

No, it isn't. You said those things like they only apply to executions, thus making life sentencing cheaper. Are you forgetting which side of the argument you're on?


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: eligal]
    #5405339 - 03/15/06 07:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Don't provoke PLUR, LOL too much eligal.  He'll give you a bad rating!  :sad:


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #5405357 - 03/15/06 07:31 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PLUR, LOL said:
No, it isn't.  You said those things like they only apply to executions, thus making life sentencing cheaper.  Are you forgetting which side of the argument you're on?




im leaning towards getting rid of the death penalty, purely for the economics of it. i think what youre refering to is a regular apeal. where as the perpetrator that is to be executed will get more than just one trial.
i read a few studies on this this week (gotta do a class paper on it) and so far i have yet to find a study which disagrees with what i have just said...

if you can find suitable data showing the contrare, then please post. otherwise your argument has no support.
you need the data boi!! :pirate:


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: eligal]
    #5405364 - 03/15/06 07:32 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

you are correct. as strange as it sounds, capital punishment costs far more than life in prison with no parole.

Quote:

Prosecuting a death penalty case is extremely expensive for a state and drains money that could be used for education and social programs. It costs more than sentencing a prisoner to life without parole.

The most comprehensive death penalty study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million more per execution than a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of life imprisonment (Duke University, May 1993). In its review of death penalty expenses, the State of Kansas concluded that capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-death penalty cases.




http://www.aclu.org/capital/facts/10593res20050216.html


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Vvellum]
    #5405567 - 03/15/06 08:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Very interesting, bi0. Thanks for the link. The ACLU doesn't explain why it's more costly to prosecute a death penalty case than a life sentence, though. Is it just because of appeals?


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #5405653 - 03/15/06 08:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It's because they are still in prison 10+ years and many many appeals on top of that. And then the execution.

All in all I would imagine that that equals 20-25 years of someone with life and no death penalty. I'm just guessing, I don't know but I am sure there are statistics somewhere. If I wasn't so high I would look it up.....Anyways, the average life sentence equals out to less than whatever the cost for the death row inmate is.

Not to mention that they completely seperate death row inmates from all of the other ones. I'm sure that that adds a lot of cost as well (more employees, etc.)


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #5405721 - 03/15/06 08:39 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I bet a firing squad's bullets can't cost too much money.


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Deadmaker]
    #5405814 - 03/15/06 08:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I say we start using the guillotine. Getting your head cut off would be a good deterrent and it would save money. Hell you don't really have to sharpen it if you don't want to.


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: kilroy69]
    #5405829 - 03/15/06 08:56 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

its not the actual form of execution thats exeponsive, its getting the legal permission which costs so much money...


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: kilroy69]
    #5405836 - 03/15/06 08:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think a really slow, torture filled death would help a lot as a deterrent. I am against the Death Penalty, but if we are going to have it, it should be painful.

Or maybe the person should die the way that they killed their victim (s). In the case of multiple methods of murder by the convict, just write them all down and draw out of a hat to determine how to kill them.


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Deadmaker]
    #5406140 - 03/15/06 09:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think a life sentence in jail with no chance of parole would be worse then death.

But it cheaper to just kill them.

We need the electric bench!


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: baraka]
    #5406147 - 03/15/06 09:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

:foreheadslap:


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Deadmaker]
    #5406152 - 03/15/06 09:56 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I think a really slow, torture filled death would help a lot as a deterrent.




capital punishment doesnt quite work as a deterrent, but more importantly, such punishment is unconstitutional:

Quote:

8th amendment: Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.




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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Vvellum]
    #5406178 - 03/15/06 10:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I am well aware of that.....I didn't say that it would be constitutional to do that nor did I intend to imply that it would be.

A torture free capital punishment does not work as a deterrent, but a slow and painful capital punishment would. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying that it's going to happen because it never will.


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Deadmaker]
    #5406192 - 03/15/06 10:03 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I dont see how a period of torture is going to be anymore of a deterrent than a life in prison and execution. doesnt make sense.

people committ heinous crimes such as murder because they are not exactly right in the head. they are not going to think at all about the consequences even when one consequence is torture.


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Vvellum]
    #5406220 - 03/15/06 10:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:

Quote:

8th amendment: Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.







As long as the Supreem court sees it as constitutional it stays....

The government does alot of unconstituional shit like lincoln taking away the writ of habeas corpus.


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Vvellum]
    #5406298 - 03/15/06 10:21 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

That's n ot always the case. Some people that commit murder are right in the head and they just really fucking hated the other person. For people like that that have the ability to think straight, it might matter. Sure that is very much a minority, but it would make a difference on some level, no matter how small of a level that that might be.

Either way though, like I already said I'm against the death penalty in the first place. I was just more or less throwing out an idea is all.


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: eligal]
    #5406335 - 03/15/06 10:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

eligal said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

eligal said:


dude, read my thread, it is much mroe expensive to execute someone do to all the legal barriers... if you want to save tax payers some money, you will keep him with a life sentence.




wrong.




its easy to make blank statements isnt it. how about proving it.


" Fact: The death penalty is extraordinarily expensive. Contrary to popular
intuition, a system with a death penalty is vastly more expensive than
one where the maximum penalty is keeping murderers in prison for life.
A 1982 New York study estimated the death penalty cost conservatively at
three times that of life imprisonment, the ratio that Texas (with a system
that is on the brink of collapse due to underfunding) has experienced.
In Florida, each execution runs the state $3,200,000--six times the expense
of life imprisonment. California has succeeded in executing just two defendants
(one a volunteer) since 1976, but could save about $90,000,000 per year
by abolishing the death penalty and resentencing all of its Death Row inmates
to life."


and lets not forget that prisons provide work for our hard working tax payers.




mind linking to the site this came from? mind breaking it down to how it costs
so much to execute a single individual, exactly how many times do they need to
build a 'death house', certainly one not for each prisoner.


for a state prisoner it's $100k/yr for housing and care
for a federal prisoner it's $250k/yr each of these can carry 'extras'

http://www.erstarnews.com/2001/october/30jail.html


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5406383 - 03/15/06 10:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Opposing Viewpoints Resource Center




Statement on Capital Punishment by Julius L. Chambers, March 14, 1990

Source Database: Information Plus: Capital Punishment: Cruel and Unusual?


Table of Contents: Source Citation


Julius L. Chambers, Director-Counsel, NAACP Legal Defense and Educational
Fund, Inc., gave this statement on March 14, 1990, before the House Judiciary
Committee.


... [P]assage of the proposed death penalty bills would not advance--but
would instead retar--resolution of the vexing problems associated with
urban crime. While holding up the mirage of fighting and deterring crime,
these death penalty bills would surely result in furthering the historical
and well-documented racial disparities in the imposition of capital punishment
in the United States.

Our concern is squarely grounded in the stark reality, which Black people
have traditionally faced. For more than three centuries, the weight of
the death penalty in this country has been borne far more heavily by Blacks
than by Whites....

... There is no question that the financial cost of sentencing a single
person to death is astronomical.... For example, the GAO (General Accounting
Office) noted that one study done on "death penalty costs in New York estimated
it would cost at least $1.8 million to defend and prosecute a capital case."
By contrast, the cost of feeding and housing the defendant convicted in
that same case for a period of 40 years would only be $602,000. The proposed
statutes are absolutely silent as to where the millions of dollars would
come from to "foot the bill...."

Perhaps the true purpose of the bills is to divert the public's attention
away from considering measures which could truly serve to fight crime.
One commentator correctly observed that ... "the death penalty debate enables
public officials and legislators to falsely assert that they are being
tough on crime because they favor the death penalty." More emphasis should
be placed on the less glamorous side of fighting crime. Most major cities
in the country, for example, cannot afford to offer adequate treatment
to young offenders who have become ensnared with the drug world....

Source Citation: "Statement on Capital Punishment by Julius L. Chambers,
March 14, 1990." Capital Punishment: Cruel and Unusual? Mei Ling Rein.
Information Plus® Reference Series. Gale Group, 2004.
Opposing Viewpoints Resource Center. Thomson Gale. 13 March 2006
<http://galenet.galegroup.com/servlet/OVRC>;

Document Number: X3011060311


..............................................................


Opposing Viewpoints Resource Center




The Case Against the Death Penalty

Eric M. Freedman

Source Database: Contemporary Issues Companion: Death Penalty

Table of Contents: Further Readings | Source Citation


Paying the Price in Public Safety

Fact: The death penalty actually reduces public safety. The costs of the
death penalty go far beyond the tens of millions of dollars wasted in the
pursuit of a chimera. The reality is that, in a time of fixed or declining
budgets, those dollars are taken away from a range of programs that would
be beneficial. For example:

* New York State, due to financial constraints, can not provide bulletproof
vests for every peace officer--a project that, unlike the death penalty,
certainly would save law enforcement lives. * According to FBI statistics,
the rate at which murders are solved has dropped to an all-time low. Yet,
empirical studies consistently demonstrate that, as with other crimes,
the murder rate decreases as the probability of detection increases. Putting
money into investigative resources, rather than wasting it on the death
penalty, could have a significant effect on crime. * Despite the large
percentage of ordinary street crimes that are narcotics-related, the states
lack the funding to permit drug treatment on demand. The result is that
people who are motivated to cure their own addictions are relegated to
supporting themselves through crime, while the money that could fund treatment
programs is poured down the death penalty drain.

Source Citation: "The Case Against the Death Penalty" by Eric M. Freedman.
Death Penalty. Hayley R. Mitchell, Ed. Contemporary Issues Companion Series.
Greenhaven Press, 2001. Reprinted from "The Case Against the Death Penalty,"
by Eric M. Freedman, USA Today magazine, vol. 125, no. 2622, March 1997.
Copyright (c)1997 by the Society for the Advancement of Education. Reprinted
with permission from USA Today magazine.
Opposing Viewpoints Resource Center. Thomson Gale. 13 March 2006
<http://galenet.galegroup.com/servlet/OVRC>;

Document Number: X3010074208

...............................................................


Opposing Viewpoints Resource Center




The Death Penalty Does Not Deter Crime

Part I: Christine Notis and Part II: Edward Hunter

Source Database: Opposing Viewpoints: The Death Penalty

Table of Contents: Further Readings | Source Citation

The Death Penalty Is Expensive

If the death penalty was an effective deterrent, it would also be more
cost efficient than any other forms of punishment. The fact is that a single
execution costs more than two million dollars. This is $800,000 more than
incarcerating a person for life. Supporters of the death penalty argue
that the reason it is so expensive to execute someone is because of the
numerous frivolous appeals. Proponents say that if the death penalty was
applied properly, without so many appeals, it would be less expensive than
life in prison without parole.

The truth is that these costs are not the result of frivolous appeals,
but instead the result of necessary, Constitutionally mandated safeguards.
In order to ensure a just conviction, (1) juries must be given clear guidelines
on sentencing, (2) defendants have to have two trials, one to decide their
guilt or innocence, the other, if proven guilty, to decide whether or not
they should be sentenced to death, and (3) defendants that are sentenced
to death are granted oversight protection in an automatic appeal to the
Supreme Court. These safeguards result in a more drawn out jury selection
process, an increase in the number of motions filed, more investigators
and expert testimony, and more lawyers with specialization in death penalty
cases. All of this taken together means that the trial will be a lot longer,
thus, more expensive.

The economic impact has to be felt by someone, and it is usually not the
defendant. It is the counties that usually pay for the prosecution, and
because most defendants lack the needed funds, the counties usually pay
for the defense as well. Because of these bills, some counties have to
cut back on basic services, ironically including police protection, in
order to pay for one capital murder trial.

In other words, the death penalty is not more cost effective than life
in prison without parole. It seems to be almost hypocritical of our society
to keep spending so much money on the death penalty. Isn't this the same
society which strongly argues slight raises in taxes for good causes, like
education and/or health care? Yet the tax payers in the United States continue
to fork out their dough to see people fried or hanged.

The cost of the death penalty can be measured in more than just dollars
and cents. Capital cases take up tremendous amounts of court time, thereby
delaying the processing of other important cases. There is also a significant
burden on the United States Supreme Court. Furthermore, State Supreme Court
officials probably spend at least one-half of their time dealing with death
penalty appeals.

Source Citation: "The Death Penalty Does Not Deter Crime" by Part I: Christine
Notis and Part II: Edward Hunter. The Death Penalty. Mary E. Williams,
Ed. Opposing Viewpoints® Series. Greenhaven Press, 2002. Part I: Reprinted,
with permission, from Christine Notis, "Is the Death Penalty an Effective
Deterrent?" 1997 web article found at
www.public.iastate.edu/~cnotis/penalty.htm.
Endnotes and references in the original have been omitted in this reprint.
Part II: Reprinted, with permission, from Edward Hunter, "Experts Agree:
Death Penalty Not a Deterrent to Violent Crime," January 15, 1997, web
article found at www.napa.ufl.edu/oldnews/death1.htm.
Opposing Viewpoints Resource Center. Thomson Gale. 13 March 2006
<http://galenet.galegroup.com/servlet/OVRC>;

Document Number: X3010124256


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Vvellum]
    #5406399 - 03/15/06 10:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bio said:
you are correct. as strange as it sounds, capital punishment costs far more than life in prison with no parole.

Quote:


Prosecuting a death penalty case is extremely expensive for a state and drains money that could be used for education and social programs. It costs more than sentencing a prisoner to life without parole.

The most comprehensive death penalty study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million more per execution than a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of life imprisonment (Duke University, May 1993). In its review of death penalty expenses, the State of Kansas concluded that capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-death penalty cases.






http://www.aclu.org/capital/facts/10593res20050216.html





key word, procecuting... whats the excecution cost? as I recall the ACLU isnt an unbiased party, they arent collecting data, they're trying to abolish the death penalty

also from their site, also biased because it doesnt describe how many innocent people are released from prisons every year.

Quote:

Death Penalty:
The death penalty is the greatest denial of civil liberties. Innocent people are being sentenced to death. In the past 30 years, 122 inmates were found to be innocent and released from death row. The ACLU is working toward a moratorium on the death penalty. Learn more about the issue and how you can get involved.




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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5406423 - 03/15/06 10:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


key word, prosecution... whats the excecution cost?




what does it matter considering there will always be a prosecution and appeal process to all capital punishment cases? I dont think I'd want to live in any nation where such processes where curtailed or abolished.

Quote:

as I recall the ACLU isnt an unbiased party, they arent collecting data, they're trying to abolish the death penalty




then see the myriad of sources around the internet that demonstrate how capital punishment is by far more expensive than life in prison, if not the two sources that the ACLU mention.


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: eligal]
    #5406431 - 03/15/06 10:49 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

eligal said:
Opposing Viewpoints Resource Center





Quote:


DPINFO - Death Penalty Information

Cost Issues

All studies finding the death penalty to be more expensive than life without parole exclude important factors, such as (1) geriatric care costs, recently found to be $69,0000/yr/inmate, (2) the death penalty cost benefit of providing for plea bargains to a maximum life sentence, a huge cost savings to the state, (3) the death penalty cost benefit of both enhanced deterrence and enhanced incapacitation, at $5 million per innocent life spared, and, furthermore, (4) many of the alleged cost comparison studies are highly deceptive.





http://www.dpinfo.com/cost_comparisons.htm


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Vvellum]
    #5406449 - 03/15/06 10:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

on death row you have 2 appeals, both at the cost of the state it's one of the things factored into these cases that arent factored in with the others


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5406452 - 03/15/06 10:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

hmm... give me a bit to read through this


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: eligal]
    #5406487 - 03/15/06 10:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

theres another post in the pub that does an actual breakdown on the death penalty
and it's costs, I gotta crash but I'll try and find it in the morning, you may
be suprised to see it only costs about $40k to execute someone, it costs more to
house them until the excecution for the 10-15 years until they've spent their
appeals


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5406544 - 03/15/06 11:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

wait, you criticize me for posting an ACLU quote because they are biased , but it's ok for you to post stats from a website that says on its frontpage: DPINFO offers the latest death penalty headlines, articles, and up to date Pro Death Penalty information. ?


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Vvellum]
    #5406619 - 03/15/06 11:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

read the side bar, they at least link to anti-death penalty sites as well as the
pro sites, they allow YOU to decide based on info you can search through, not just
to present their side and tell you 'this is how it is'

I support the ACLU in many aspects, this simply isnt one of them, they say that
the death penalty is a violation of a prisoners civil rights, what about the
rights of the victim, wheres their appeals?


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5406673 - 03/15/06 11:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

read the side bar, they at least link to anti-death penalty sites as well as the pro sites, they allow YOU to decide based on info you can search through, not just to present their side and tell you 'this is how it is'




junk links to the opposition do not make a website objective and unbiased. DPINFO is as biased as the ACLU.

Quote:


I support the ACLU in many aspects, this simply isnt one of them, they say that
the death penalty is a violation of a prisoners civil rights, what about the
rights of the victim, wheres their appeals?




...and what exactly would a victims' "appeal" process entail? please explain.


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5406721 - 03/15/06 11:59 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
whats an 11yo girl doing hanging out at a carwash?




she was walking home from a friends house.
i dont know if this has been covered yet but what a fucking stupid thing to say ^5.


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Vvellum]
    #5407057 - 03/16/06 03:13 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
wait, you criticize me for posting an ACLU quote because they are biased , but it's ok for you to post stats from a website that says on its frontpage: DPINFO offers the latest death penalty headlines, articles, and up to date Pro Death Penalty information.  ?





hehe, got a point there...

how did i not see that last part???i think im growing a reading disorder....  :crazy:


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Vvellum]
    #5407103 - 03/16/06 05:36 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
Quote:

read the side bar, they at least link to anti-death penalty sites as well as the pro sites, they allow YOU to decide based on info you can search through, not just to present their side and tell you 'this is how it is'




junk links to the opposition do not make a website objective and unbiased. DPINFO is as biased as the ACLU.




the ACLU is one of those junk links



Quote:

Quote:



I support the ACLU in many aspects, this simply isnt one of them, they say that
the death penalty is a violation of a prisoners civil rights, what about the
rights of the victim, wheres their appeals?




...and what exactly would a victims' "appeal" process entail? please explain.




read that part over agan and maybe you'll see my point, think maybe the death row inmate deserves the same chances as his victims?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: sparks8]
    #5407104 - 03/16/06 05:37 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

sparks8 said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
whats an 11yo girl doing hanging out at a carwash?




she was walking home from a friends house.
i dont know if this has been covered yet but what a fucking stupid thing to say ^5.




almost as stupid as the comment it was in response to


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OfflineAislingGheal
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5407154 - 03/16/06 06:18 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I support the ACLU in many aspects, this simply isnt one of them, they say that
the death penalty is a violation of a prisoners civil rights, what about the
rights of the victim, wheres their appeals?




I agree Pris. If someone sexually attacks and murders a child then the death penalty is the feasible societal response in my opinion. No more life, breath, thought, no chance of any possible pleasures (however small) for the guilty, they need to be removed from the living as their actions have forfeited their existence in society. Will it be a deterrent? No but so what. If they are unhindered by laws and basic human morality then there is probably nothing that would make them reconsider their actions anyway, but they are an evil to be expunged so if they're proven guilty and have gone through their appeals then it's time for capitol punishment. Even if its more expensive than life in prison. No meals, no books, no life, no hope. Just gone.


--------------------

"I hate having to pick between the lesser of two evils. But I'm glad Obama was elected. McCain was another war monger. I'd rather deal with our country going into debt than trying to take on afghanistan...oh wait FUCK!" - Fungus_tao


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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: AislingGheal]
    #5407189 - 03/16/06 06:54 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

:thumbup::thumbup:


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"your avatar is dirty."


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: 40oz]
    #5407224 - 03/16/06 07:17 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I just watched Dead Man Walking last night for the first time. All of this is very much on my mind. But I don't have much to say about it at the moment.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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Offlineduggan18
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: kilroy69]
    #5407331 - 03/16/06 08:11 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

death penalty FOR THE LOSS.


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Offlinekilroy69
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: duggan18]
    #5407803 - 03/16/06 11:08 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

In cases like this one where the Pervert is guilty beyond any reasonable doubt it should take them 2 months max to kill him.


So in the case I will take the death penalty for the societal win.


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Yeaaa im still alive.


Edited by kilroy69 (03/16/06 11:25 AM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: AislingGheal]
    #5408963 - 03/16/06 03:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

AislingGheal said:
I agree Pris. If someone sexually attacks and murders a child then the death penalty is the feasible societal response in my opinion. No more life, breath, thought, no chance of any possible pleasures (however small) for the guilty




bio mentioned the death penalty as being cruel and unusual punishment, honestly,
if it's not cruel and unusual is it really punishment, prisons are nothing more
than schools for criminals, need to learn to pick locks, crack safes or get away
with the crimes you plan on committing, prison is the place for you.

I feel the death penalty should be used more, how many people convicted of
murder have left prison just to go on to commit another, how many rapists or
pedophiles have done the same, I believe in the 3 strikes your out, the difference being if you are found guilty 3 rapes or crimes against children,
3 armed roberies, virtualy any real sexual (doesnt include public urination
and the like) or violent offenses, you show you arent capable of fitting into
society, you deserve the death penalty, these dont have to be seperate
convictions, rob 3 stores with a gun, get caught, die, lets see about deterants
to crime then




Quote:

Will it be a deterrent? No but so what.




I disagree, the death penalty is in fact a deterant, bot only when it's used,
theres been 1011 executions in the US since 1976, thats out of the 38 states
that use capital punishment, thats less than 1 per year per state on average
the reason it's not a deterant now is because most people know that they'll
never get it if they commit a murder, most states that have it have a few people
on death row but they dont excecute them, Pennsylvania has excecuted 3 of the
231 people that are on death row...


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Invisibletrip forever
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: kilroy69]
    #11195714 - 10/06/09 06:18 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

He was going to kill himself anyways...Now they're just making sure the job gets done for him. To me seems like more of a reward to him, they should just give him a life sentence.


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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: trip forever]
    #11195727 - 10/06/09 06:19 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

And should  be someones  bitch.....


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InvisibleDoctor_Dick
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: kilroy69]
    #11195752 - 10/06/09 06:25 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

i live in sarasota florida :facepalm:


--------------------
:minifo:] "This promise constitutes the heart of my Christian beliefs and my call to natural-scientific research: we will attain to knowledge of the universe through the spirit of truth, and thereby to understanding of our being one with the deepest, most comprehensive reality, God."
-Albert Hofmann


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