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Offlinekilroy69
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Deadmaker]
    #5405814 - 03/15/06 08:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I say we start using the guillotine. Getting your head cut off would be a good deterrent and it would save money. Hell you don't really have to sharpen it if you don't want to.


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: kilroy69]
    #5405829 - 03/15/06 08:56 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

its not the actual form of execution thats exeponsive, its getting the legal permission which costs so much money...


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
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OfflineDeadmaker
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: kilroy69]
    #5405836 - 03/15/06 08:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think a really slow, torture filled death would help a lot as a deterrent. I am against the Death Penalty, but if we are going to have it, it should be painful.

Or maybe the person should die the way that they killed their victim (s). In the case of multiple methods of murder by the convict, just write them all down and draw out of a hat to determine how to kill them.


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Offlinebaraka
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Deadmaker]
    #5406140 - 03/15/06 09:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think a life sentence in jail with no chance of parole would be worse then death.

But it cheaper to just kill them.

We need the electric bench!


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: baraka]
    #5406147 - 03/15/06 09:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

:foreheadslap:


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
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"tactik said:
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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Deadmaker]
    #5406152 - 03/15/06 09:56 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I think a really slow, torture filled death would help a lot as a deterrent.




capital punishment doesnt quite work as a deterrent, but more importantly, such punishment is unconstitutional:

Quote:

8th amendment: Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.




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OfflineDeadmaker
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Vvellum]
    #5406178 - 03/15/06 10:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I am well aware of that.....I didn't say that it would be constitutional to do that nor did I intend to imply that it would be.

A torture free capital punishment does not work as a deterrent, but a slow and painful capital punishment would. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying that it's going to happen because it never will.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Deadmaker]
    #5406192 - 03/15/06 10:03 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I dont see how a period of torture is going to be anymore of a deterrent than a life in prison and execution. doesnt make sense.

people committ heinous crimes such as murder because they are not exactly right in the head. they are not going to think at all about the consequences even when one consequence is torture.


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InvisibleStonerguy
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Vvellum]
    #5406220 - 03/15/06 10:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:

Quote:

8th amendment: Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.







As long as the Supreem court sees it as constitutional it stays....

The government does alot of unconstituional shit like lincoln taking away the writ of habeas corpus.


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OfflineDeadmaker
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Vvellum]
    #5406298 - 03/15/06 10:21 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

That's n ot always the case. Some people that commit murder are right in the head and they just really fucking hated the other person. For people like that that have the ability to think straight, it might matter. Sure that is very much a minority, but it would make a difference on some level, no matter how small of a level that that might be.

Either way though, like I already said I'm against the death penalty in the first place. I was just more or less throwing out an idea is all.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: eligal]
    #5406335 - 03/15/06 10:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

eligal said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

eligal said:


dude, read my thread, it is much mroe expensive to execute someone do to all the legal barriers... if you want to save tax payers some money, you will keep him with a life sentence.




wrong.




its easy to make blank statements isnt it. how about proving it.


" Fact: The death penalty is extraordinarily expensive. Contrary to popular
intuition, a system with a death penalty is vastly more expensive than
one where the maximum penalty is keeping murderers in prison for life.
A 1982 New York study estimated the death penalty cost conservatively at
three times that of life imprisonment, the ratio that Texas (with a system
that is on the brink of collapse due to underfunding) has experienced.
In Florida, each execution runs the state $3,200,000--six times the expense
of life imprisonment. California has succeeded in executing just two defendants
(one a volunteer) since 1976, but could save about $90,000,000 per year
by abolishing the death penalty and resentencing all of its Death Row inmates
to life."


and lets not forget that prisons provide work for our hard working tax payers.




mind linking to the site this came from? mind breaking it down to how it costs
so much to execute a single individual, exactly how many times do they need to
build a 'death house', certainly one not for each prisoner.


for a state prisoner it's $100k/yr for housing and care
for a federal prisoner it's $250k/yr each of these can carry 'extras'

http://www.erstarnews.com/2001/october/30jail.html


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5406383 - 03/15/06 10:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Opposing Viewpoints Resource Center




Statement on Capital Punishment by Julius L. Chambers, March 14, 1990

Source Database: Information Plus: Capital Punishment: Cruel and Unusual?


Table of Contents: Source Citation


Julius L. Chambers, Director-Counsel, NAACP Legal Defense and Educational
Fund, Inc., gave this statement on March 14, 1990, before the House Judiciary
Committee.


... [P]assage of the proposed death penalty bills would not advance--but
would instead retar--resolution of the vexing problems associated with
urban crime. While holding up the mirage of fighting and deterring crime,
these death penalty bills would surely result in furthering the historical
and well-documented racial disparities in the imposition of capital punishment
in the United States.

Our concern is squarely grounded in the stark reality, which Black people
have traditionally faced. For more than three centuries, the weight of
the death penalty in this country has been borne far more heavily by Blacks
than by Whites....

... There is no question that the financial cost of sentencing a single
person to death is astronomical.... For example, the GAO (General Accounting
Office) noted that one study done on "death penalty costs in New York estimated
it would cost at least $1.8 million to defend and prosecute a capital case."
By contrast, the cost of feeding and housing the defendant convicted in
that same case for a period of 40 years would only be $602,000. The proposed
statutes are absolutely silent as to where the millions of dollars would
come from to "foot the bill...."

Perhaps the true purpose of the bills is to divert the public's attention
away from considering measures which could truly serve to fight crime.
One commentator correctly observed that ... "the death penalty debate enables
public officials and legislators to falsely assert that they are being
tough on crime because they favor the death penalty." More emphasis should
be placed on the less glamorous side of fighting crime. Most major cities
in the country, for example, cannot afford to offer adequate treatment
to young offenders who have become ensnared with the drug world....

Source Citation: "Statement on Capital Punishment by Julius L. Chambers,
March 14, 1990." Capital Punishment: Cruel and Unusual? Mei Ling Rein.
Information Plus® Reference Series. Gale Group, 2004.
Opposing Viewpoints Resource Center. Thomson Gale. 13 March 2006
<http://galenet.galegroup.com/servlet/OVRC>;

Document Number: X3011060311


..............................................................


Opposing Viewpoints Resource Center




The Case Against the Death Penalty

Eric M. Freedman

Source Database: Contemporary Issues Companion: Death Penalty

Table of Contents: Further Readings | Source Citation


Paying the Price in Public Safety

Fact: The death penalty actually reduces public safety. The costs of the
death penalty go far beyond the tens of millions of dollars wasted in the
pursuit of a chimera. The reality is that, in a time of fixed or declining
budgets, those dollars are taken away from a range of programs that would
be beneficial. For example:

* New York State, due to financial constraints, can not provide bulletproof
vests for every peace officer--a project that, unlike the death penalty,
certainly would save law enforcement lives. * According to FBI statistics,
the rate at which murders are solved has dropped to an all-time low. Yet,
empirical studies consistently demonstrate that, as with other crimes,
the murder rate decreases as the probability of detection increases. Putting
money into investigative resources, rather than wasting it on the death
penalty, could have a significant effect on crime. * Despite the large
percentage of ordinary street crimes that are narcotics-related, the states
lack the funding to permit drug treatment on demand. The result is that
people who are motivated to cure their own addictions are relegated to
supporting themselves through crime, while the money that could fund treatment
programs is poured down the death penalty drain.

Source Citation: "The Case Against the Death Penalty" by Eric M. Freedman.
Death Penalty. Hayley R. Mitchell, Ed. Contemporary Issues Companion Series.
Greenhaven Press, 2001. Reprinted from "The Case Against the Death Penalty,"
by Eric M. Freedman, USA Today magazine, vol. 125, no. 2622, March 1997.
Copyright (c)1997 by the Society for the Advancement of Education. Reprinted
with permission from USA Today magazine.
Opposing Viewpoints Resource Center. Thomson Gale. 13 March 2006
<http://galenet.galegroup.com/servlet/OVRC>;

Document Number: X3010074208

...............................................................


Opposing Viewpoints Resource Center




The Death Penalty Does Not Deter Crime

Part I: Christine Notis and Part II: Edward Hunter

Source Database: Opposing Viewpoints: The Death Penalty

Table of Contents: Further Readings | Source Citation

The Death Penalty Is Expensive

If the death penalty was an effective deterrent, it would also be more
cost efficient than any other forms of punishment. The fact is that a single
execution costs more than two million dollars. This is $800,000 more than
incarcerating a person for life. Supporters of the death penalty argue
that the reason it is so expensive to execute someone is because of the
numerous frivolous appeals. Proponents say that if the death penalty was
applied properly, without so many appeals, it would be less expensive than
life in prison without parole.

The truth is that these costs are not the result of frivolous appeals,
but instead the result of necessary, Constitutionally mandated safeguards.
In order to ensure a just conviction, (1) juries must be given clear guidelines
on sentencing, (2) defendants have to have two trials, one to decide their
guilt or innocence, the other, if proven guilty, to decide whether or not
they should be sentenced to death, and (3) defendants that are sentenced
to death are granted oversight protection in an automatic appeal to the
Supreme Court. These safeguards result in a more drawn out jury selection
process, an increase in the number of motions filed, more investigators
and expert testimony, and more lawyers with specialization in death penalty
cases. All of this taken together means that the trial will be a lot longer,
thus, more expensive.

The economic impact has to be felt by someone, and it is usually not the
defendant. It is the counties that usually pay for the prosecution, and
because most defendants lack the needed funds, the counties usually pay
for the defense as well. Because of these bills, some counties have to
cut back on basic services, ironically including police protection, in
order to pay for one capital murder trial.

In other words, the death penalty is not more cost effective than life
in prison without parole. It seems to be almost hypocritical of our society
to keep spending so much money on the death penalty. Isn't this the same
society which strongly argues slight raises in taxes for good causes, like
education and/or health care? Yet the tax payers in the United States continue
to fork out their dough to see people fried or hanged.

The cost of the death penalty can be measured in more than just dollars
and cents. Capital cases take up tremendous amounts of court time, thereby
delaying the processing of other important cases. There is also a significant
burden on the United States Supreme Court. Furthermore, State Supreme Court
officials probably spend at least one-half of their time dealing with death
penalty appeals.

Source Citation: "The Death Penalty Does Not Deter Crime" by Part I: Christine
Notis and Part II: Edward Hunter. The Death Penalty. Mary E. Williams,
Ed. Opposing Viewpoints® Series. Greenhaven Press, 2002. Part I: Reprinted,
with permission, from Christine Notis, "Is the Death Penalty an Effective
Deterrent?" 1997 web article found at
www.public.iastate.edu/~cnotis/penalty.htm.
Endnotes and references in the original have been omitted in this reprint.
Part II: Reprinted, with permission, from Edward Hunter, "Experts Agree:
Death Penalty Not a Deterrent to Violent Crime," January 15, 1997, web
article found at www.napa.ufl.edu/oldnews/death1.htm.
Opposing Viewpoints Resource Center. Thomson Gale. 13 March 2006
<http://galenet.galegroup.com/servlet/OVRC>;

Document Number: X3010124256


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Vvellum]
    #5406399 - 03/15/06 10:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bio said:
you are correct. as strange as it sounds, capital punishment costs far more than life in prison with no parole.

Quote:


Prosecuting a death penalty case is extremely expensive for a state and drains money that could be used for education and social programs. It costs more than sentencing a prisoner to life without parole.

The most comprehensive death penalty study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million more per execution than a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of life imprisonment (Duke University, May 1993). In its review of death penalty expenses, the State of Kansas concluded that capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-death penalty cases.






http://www.aclu.org/capital/facts/10593res20050216.html





key word, procecuting... whats the excecution cost? as I recall the ACLU isnt an unbiased party, they arent collecting data, they're trying to abolish the death penalty

also from their site, also biased because it doesnt describe how many innocent people are released from prisons every year.

Quote:

Death Penalty:
The death penalty is the greatest denial of civil liberties. Innocent people are being sentenced to death. In the past 30 years, 122 inmates were found to be innocent and released from death row. The ACLU is working toward a moratorium on the death penalty. Learn more about the issue and how you can get involved.




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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5406423 - 03/15/06 10:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


key word, prosecution... whats the excecution cost?




what does it matter considering there will always be a prosecution and appeal process to all capital punishment cases? I dont think I'd want to live in any nation where such processes where curtailed or abolished.

Quote:

as I recall the ACLU isnt an unbiased party, they arent collecting data, they're trying to abolish the death penalty




then see the myriad of sources around the internet that demonstrate how capital punishment is by far more expensive than life in prison, if not the two sources that the ACLU mention.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: eligal]
    #5406431 - 03/15/06 10:49 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

eligal said:
Opposing Viewpoints Resource Center





Quote:


DPINFO - Death Penalty Information

Cost Issues

All studies finding the death penalty to be more expensive than life without parole exclude important factors, such as (1) geriatric care costs, recently found to be $69,0000/yr/inmate, (2) the death penalty cost benefit of providing for plea bargains to a maximum life sentence, a huge cost savings to the state, (3) the death penalty cost benefit of both enhanced deterrence and enhanced incapacitation, at $5 million per innocent life spared, and, furthermore, (4) many of the alleged cost comparison studies are highly deceptive.





http://www.dpinfo.com/cost_comparisons.htm


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Vvellum]
    #5406449 - 03/15/06 10:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

on death row you have 2 appeals, both at the cost of the state it's one of the things factored into these cases that arent factored in with the others


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5406452 - 03/15/06 10:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

hmm... give me a bit to read through this


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: eligal]
    #5406487 - 03/15/06 10:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

theres another post in the pub that does an actual breakdown on the death penalty
and it's costs, I gotta crash but I'll try and find it in the morning, you may
be suprised to see it only costs about $40k to execute someone, it costs more to
house them until the excecution for the 10-15 years until they've spent their
appeals


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5406544 - 03/15/06 11:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

wait, you criticize me for posting an ACLU quote because they are biased , but it's ok for you to post stats from a website that says on its frontpage: DPINFO offers the latest death penalty headlines, articles, and up to date Pro Death Penalty information. ?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence [Re: Vvellum]
    #5406619 - 03/15/06 11:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

read the side bar, they at least link to anti-death penalty sites as well as the
pro sites, they allow YOU to decide based on info you can search through, not just
to present their side and tell you 'this is how it is'

I support the ACLU in many aspects, this simply isnt one of them, they say that
the death penalty is a violation of a prisoners civil rights, what about the
rights of the victim, wheres their appeals?


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