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Offlinenetherstrain
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Registered: 03/13/06
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fine vermiculite ?
    #5400908 - 03/14/06 08:22 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

hello, where im at all i can find is fine grade vermiculite, you know the kind that is really small, will this still be sufficiant while using chunkier brf...? i have had success in the past with chunky brf and chunky verm. but i need some input from the community..
thank you


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All statements i make is purely bullshit.

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: netherstrain]
    #5400928 - 03/14/06 08:27 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

I also can only find the fine kind. its ok. its a wee bit slower but you can really speed things up buy making 50/50ish coco/verm mix and then add your brf. the coco really fluffs things up!
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5134824/an/0/page/0

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OfflineChrissss
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Registered: 02/12/06
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: mushboy]
    #5400932 - 03/14/06 08:28 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

Same here all i use is the fine. Thats a good idea mushboy. Ill have to try with the coco next time.


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OfflineHongKongPhooey
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: Chrissss]
    #5401056 - 03/14/06 09:07 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

it seems like fine would hold more water but is at the same time denser... never tried both types, anyone know if yields are different

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Offlineskeletor
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: HongKongPhooey]
    #5401319 - 03/14/06 10:11 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

i saw a very scientific test someone did and reported on here. fine verm just holds more water. but your correct it itsn't as airy so adding something else to 'fluff up' your substrate is a good plan.


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Invisibleagar
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: skeletor]
    #5401426 - 03/14/06 10:33 PM (18 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

skeletor said:
i saw a very scientific test someone did and reported on here. fine verm just holds more water. but your correct it itsn't as airy so adding something else to 'fluff up' your substrate is a good plan.




>> http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5097253#Post5097253


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Offlinenetherstrain
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: netherstrain]
    #5402097 - 03/15/06 03:33 AM (18 years, 8 days ago)

mushboy, what kind of coco do i add?


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Invisibleagar
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: netherstrain]
    #5402107 - 03/15/06 03:46 AM (18 years, 8 days ago)

Coco Coir.
http://www.greeneem.com/cococoirpeat.htm

Hydroponics shops, garden centers & pet store have it


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: skeletor]
    #5402110 - 03/15/06 03:52 AM (18 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

skeletor said:
i saw a very scientific test someone did and reported on here. fine verm just holds more water.




Vermiculite water holding ability TEST

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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: netherstrain]
    #5402132 - 03/15/06 04:34 AM (18 years, 8 days ago)

All I've ever used is fine verm due to availability in my area. I've never had any problems with it. Although I've never compared it to chunky verm as far as speed of colonization, the fine verm didn't take long to colonize at all, especially when inoculated with an LC. If you're doing PF jars, don't pack the substrate down at all. Spoon your BRF/verm mix into the jars very loosely, like you should do regardless of coarseness.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: FooMan]
    #5402183 - 03/15/06 05:53 AM (18 years, 8 days ago)

Fine verm works great as the top protection layer in the PFTek but thats really only the best place for it. It will work in substrates as well but I really prefer larger chunks as IME they actually hold more water because they are less dense meaning less cellulose matter more water and it just makes for a healthier culture IMHO. One place fine does not work is for a casings layer as it has no good attributes including suffocating the substrate somewhat.


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Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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InvisibleTrippingDuality
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: hyphae]
    #5402893 - 03/15/06 11:01 AM (18 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

hyphae said:
One place fine does not work is for a casings layer as it has no good attributes including suffocating the substrate somewhat.





eeek!
i don't like reading this! they didn't have chunky this time. :frown:
does the addition of coir to fine verm at about a 70/30 ratio help prevent suffocating?


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OfflineSinthetic
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: TrippingDuality]
    #5402917 - 03/15/06 11:06 AM (18 years, 8 days ago)

I've read a couple reports of that working better than just vermiculite.

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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: hyphae]
    #5402956 - 03/15/06 11:14 AM (18 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

hyphae said:
Fine verm works great as the top protection layer in the PFTek but thats really only the best place for it. It will work in substrates as well but I really prefer larger chunks as IME they actually hold more water because they are less dense meaning less cellulose matter more water and it just makes for a healthier culture IMHO. One place fine does not work is for a casings layer as it has no good attributes including suffocating the substrate somewhat.




Chunky verm may be better, technically. But like I stated, I've never had a problem using the fine stuff and that INCLUDES as a casing layer. I not telling people to get fine verm over chunky verm, just that it will suffice.



All of these were cased with ONLY fine grade verm. The 2nd pic was a 2nd flush, the third pic was a 3rd flush. Fruits were small due to shallow substrate depth. Results can vary with verm though, due to inconsistent pH levels.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: FooMan]
    #5403091 - 03/15/06 11:53 AM (18 years, 8 days ago)

Suffocation of a substrate isn't an immediate problem, over time though it can be a breeding ground for anerobic bacteria. In your situation the first flush looks very nice although not alot of weight there it is a very nice pinset. The FC looks to be a little high in CO2 possibly. Like you said if thats all you can get then get it.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: hyphae]
    #5403171 - 03/15/06 12:13 PM (18 years, 8 days ago)

The one thing I've learned about this hobby is to never say NEVER!  :grin:

I can't count how many times in this hobby I didn't try something because I would hear it wouldn't work. After seeing RR's pics with mushrooms growing off of a bra, I won't rule anything out! :wink:

That grow was my first casing attempt. I don't know about the CO2, but I do know that nutes were lacking, due to the substrate only being a couple of PF cakes. The first pic is what happens when you don't plan your vacation with your grow. Mess of spores! :crazy:

I'm really hooked on double tubs now though:

:grin:


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Invisibleshriek
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Registered: 12/13/03
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: FooMan]
    #5403186 - 03/15/06 12:16 PM (18 years, 8 days ago)

i got a 10 pound bag of fine grade verm by accident, it didnt work well as substrate but i have, like allready mentioned here, used it as top layer on my pf jars when incubated. i have also rolled my cakes in it without any problems I have noticed.

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Offlinediscountpass
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: FooMan]
    #5403207 - 03/15/06 12:22 PM (18 years, 8 days ago)

This what FooManShroom is talking bout! and i can vouch to say it works great, cant say if it is better then chunky verm, but i have had no success with the chunky one.

11.23 @ homedepot(not all homedepots have em so try a few, and i can also get a bag of perlite,same price)


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: shriek]
    #5403219 - 03/15/06 12:26 PM (18 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

shriek said:
i got a 10 pound bag of fine grade verm by accident, it didnt work well as substrate




I agree. It would SUCK as a substrate, it has ZERO nutes by itself  :smirk:


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Invisibleshriek
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: FooMan]
    #5403266 - 03/15/06 12:41 PM (18 years, 8 days ago)

hehe :smile:

together with brf of course

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Offlinemnmdat
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: shriek]
    #5403715 - 03/15/06 02:17 PM (18 years, 8 days ago)

Ya Im having that same problem of only being able to find fine verm. When I case I think Im going to use a mix of 50 coir,25 verm,15peat and 10 oystershell. Im hoping that this will off set only having fine verm.

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Invisibleshriek
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: mnmdat]
    #5404052 - 03/15/06 03:20 PM (18 years, 8 days ago)

i have one okey grade of verm (its difficult to fine good verm here in norway) that i have normally used that has been medium grade i guess because when i went to the pet zoo i found the best verm i have used so far. it was labeled as "reptile egg incubation medium" and that was the perfect verm imo, but 5 litres cost just as much as i pay for 100 litres at a gardening centre of that medium grade :frown:

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Offlinehyphae
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: shriek]
    #5404873 - 03/15/06 06:03 PM (18 years, 8 days ago)

I meant to say is does not work good, I see that I omitted that when I looked back, sorry. I will very rarely say never BTW.
I have to agree I have seen alot of things work that many believed would not. I still recommend med to course verm for casings but not the real big course stuff as I've seen huge verm I never knew existed! Consistancy for the masses would not benefit from the use of fine verm in casings IMHO. But obviously if thats all thats available it will work. Thanks for the input FooMan! What does your casing mix consist of BTW besides of course fine verm?


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: hyphae]
    #5410322 - 03/16/06 09:34 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

hyphae said:
What does your casing mix consist of BTW besides of course fine verm?




In the first set of pics, just fine verm. In the second set, the first 3 pics were cased with Jiffy Mix (perlite kind) mixed with a little oyster shell flour. The last pic in that set had no casing layer, just WBS spawned to coir at about a 1:4 ratio.


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Offlinefireman
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: FooMan]
    #5438768 - 03/24/06 03:42 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

would course perlite be better than fine vermiculite in substrate and casing layers, or is it better to stick with verm?

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Offlinestelthvue
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Registered: 01/20/06
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: fireman]
    #5438774 - 03/24/06 03:44 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

stick with vermiculite


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: fireman]
    #5438937 - 03/24/06 04:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I have actually seen people use perlite in their casings, but it is more to fluff it up then for moisture retention.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: FooMan]
    #5439036 - 03/24/06 05:34 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I hope you explained to them the importance of water retention and a casings health as far as water demands put on them during the flushes. It's funny to see how people are straying away from proper techniques out of just not knowing any better. :wink:


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: fine vermiculite ? [Re: hyphae]
    #5439061 - 03/24/06 05:43 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

hyphae said:
I hope you explained to them the importance of water retention and a casings health as far as water demands put on them during the flushes. It's funny to see how people are straying away from proper techniques out of just not knowing any better. :wink:




They need to read. :smirk: Your pinning strategy is a good place to start.

It seems like people are reading, but maybe reading too fast or just not comprehending the information. The wealth of information here can be your best friend and your worst enemy at the same time. You'll read something in the archives, then read a post somewhere else that contradicts what you just read. It can lead to quick confusion for a noob.


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