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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 days
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a gun poll for PAL
#5398484 - 03/14/06 10:19 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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poll:
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 167
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5398491 - 03/14/06 10:22 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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America is know different, there will come a time again when the people will need to protect themselves against either tyranny or invaders. If that happens in my life time I would prefer having an arsenal that is worthy to the cqause and need. I have a good start. I also know how to make small ieds with two by fours and nails and shotgun shells. The redneck landmine.
Kablow
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 167
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I am sure you could fairly easily convert a potato guin into a grenade thrower. some thoguht is all you need. and string.
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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I dunno about where you live, but we can't exactly buy grenades at Wal-Mart here...
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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Krishna
कृष्ण,LOL


Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,285
Loc: oakland
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5398533 - 03/14/06 10:38 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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ha, i'm the first person to vote i have no desire to own a gun and i don't want a gun. i would never want one in the house, or really anywhere near me. crazy people are going to exist no matter what, i'm not going to live in fear/defensive-mode because of them. if i get jumped and killed, well, that sucks. but i doubt i could live with myself knowing i used a gun on somebody (even if they were attacking me)
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 167
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: Rono]
#5398536 - 03/14/06 10:39 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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yeah, but you can buy grenade shells from army surplus stores. In the event of a war I am sure that grenades would become pretty easily to obtain, also you could shoot pipe bombs and similar stuff with relatively small adjustments, or maybe you would have to build it alittle different but I am sure it could be done.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5398582 - 03/14/06 10:49 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'd like to have a gun, but I would want to get some non-lethal ammunition. I've heard about these shotgun shots that have salt in them, so they don't kill the person, but it causes a bunch of salt to penetrate their skin. I'm sure you can imagine the reaction people have to such a wound.
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: Silversoul]
#5398614 - 03/14/06 10:56 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Those are fairly common around here...I remember getting shot at with that shit as a youth when on a garden raid outside of the city. ahhhh....good times.
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 167
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: Rono]
#5398633 - 03/14/06 11:02 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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its only effective at very close range, and only in shotguns.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 2 hours, 10 minutes
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My favorite piece is my Bulgarian AK-47. I have replaced the standard firing pin with a special titanium tipped one. Put a composite lightweight black tactical stock on the end of it. Have a full legal "Hellfire" trigerring mechanism, complete with a 100 round drum on the underside.
http://www.hellfiretriggers.com/ (Make sure you check out the video).
Expensive to fire, but sheer firepower
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides

Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5399072 - 03/14/06 12:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm all for gun rights, although I have no desire to own one myself. Though, if I owned a home, I'd consider getting a shotgun.
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blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5399077 - 03/14/06 12:53 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I dont want a machine gun if thats what you meant by military weapon, but I assure that my rifles and handguns are more than "effective enough in battle". you guys can shoot 100 rounds in a few seconds sure, but in the end it only takes one well aimed shot to down a guy.
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth


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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5399211 - 03/14/06 01:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think every upstanding citizen should own a military weapon. Incase the people ever had to rise up against a tyrannical government. I Know our forefathers would agree with me.
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 days
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: blaze2]
#5399535 - 03/14/06 03:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I dont want a machine gun if thats what you meant by military weapon
nah, i'd consider pretty much any rifle an effective military weapon as long as it had enough power.
a shotgun is great for hunting, shooting, and home defense. it is also a serious close-quarters infantry weapon that is very effective in jungle or urban fighting. you might have a shotgun that you bought for shooting ducks or clays without a thought of this second part. what i'm asking is, is if you, as a citizen, have or plan to have a weapon for which 'militia service' effectiveness is an attribute you consider?
Edited by wilshire (03/14/06 03:29 PM)
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
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Quote:
The_Red_Crayon said: I think every upstanding citizen should own a military weapon. Incase the people ever had to rise up against a tyrannical government. I Know our forefathers would agree with me.
I didn't know so many people felt this way and that is why they own guns. Interesting...do y'all really think this might happen and that having a gun will help you overthrow the government? Not a rhetorical question...I'm honestly curious to hear more about this subject.
I mean, at what point would you consider the government tyrannical? Would our political structure have to change, i.e. voting and civil liberties no longer honored? Or would it just be if a president/house/supreme court cabal developed that you thought had too much of the wrong kinds of power and didn't keep each other in check?
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
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I just worry, because pretty much every modern state who has committed genocide against an undesirable group of people had first passed laws to disarm them. Without an armed citizenry, there is no way to check a tyrannical gov't.
I would say civil liberties would have to be choked to a much higher extreme than they already are today before the everyday citizen is prepared to risk his or her life to gain back their freedom.
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5400305 - 03/14/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Some chance I could end up as a hunter in later years. Much smaller chance that I'll actually want one for any sort of protection. Don't have any desire to own one. And for the foreseeable future, won't be getting one.
Cool poll. We need more polls.
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: Gijith]
#5400326 - 03/14/06 06:14 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gijith said: Some chance I could end up as a hunter in later years.
Me too. I've always wondered what vennison tastes like, and I wouldn't have the guilt trip of supporting factory farming.
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5400347 - 03/14/06 06:18 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have no gun. Nor do I have a need or desire for a gun.
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: Silversoul]
#5400365 - 03/14/06 06:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Venison is real good. Makes the best jerky.
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Posts: 81,741
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: Gijith]
#5400585 - 03/14/06 07:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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A venison loin chop may be the best of all loin chops (assuming it's not from a grandpa buck), and a proper chili con carne(with small chunks of meat, not ground) made from venison is the best. I have also made a smoked venison terrine with morels that someone said was the best thing he ever ate but that's probably beyond most people's equipment. The pan fried loin chop is really good though.
No way I'm ever gonna put on a public forum my choice of weapon. Talk amongst yourselves.
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 days
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do y'all really think this might happen and that having a gun will help you overthrow the government?
it would be better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. you never know what can happen or the situations that might arise. it could be very important at some point.
as a matter of principle, i feel that you are not free unless you are armed. that's gonna come off a little extreme, but that's my philosophy.
you can get an SKS for less than $200. it's ugly, and you're not going to win any marksmanship trophies with it, but it's rugged and reliable. the ammunition is cheap and it's easy to maintain. because it uses a fixed ten round magazine and has a straight stock, it's legal in nearly all juristictions, even ones with "assault rifle" bans like california. at about $250 dollars for the rifle, ammunition, and the tools and supplies to keep it operating, why not?
i know a guy who had never fired a gun in his entire life, nor really considered owning one. he is your stereotypical liberal professional jew... never even touched a gun. a few years back he bought an AR-15, learned how to use and maintain it, and then sealed it and a few hundred rounds of ammunition into a wall of his house. not the best strategy, but definitely better than nothing, and a good compromise for him.
Edited by wilshire (03/14/06 07:38 PM)
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: Silversoul]
#5400810 - 03/14/06 07:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said:
Quote:
Gijith said: Some chance I could end up as a hunter in later years.
Me too. I've always wondered what vennison tastes like, and I wouldn't have the guilt trip of supporting factory farming.
You've never had venison? Man...it is fucking GOOD. It is better than beef. Imagine what God eats every day. That's what venison tastes like.
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth


Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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You dont need to ask yourself when its a appropriate time to rise up against a tyrannical government. You will defenitely know when too. The hairs on your neck will stand up my friend.
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barfightlard
tales of theinexpressible



Registered: 01/29/03 
Posts: 8,670
Loc: Canoodia
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5402266 - 03/15/06 06:53 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I would love to have a military caliber gun. It would be good protection when this world consumes itseself. Not to mention it would be fun to go out of the city and do some target practice, plus some of them look cool as fuck.
Are military style rifles legal to own in Canada?
--------------------
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
Edited by bellylard (03/15/06 06:56 AM)
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5402317 - 03/15/06 07:26 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Let me see.. I live in Holland. Guns are illegal here unless on permit and the country is so small that you're going to shoot someone in the ass no matter which direction you shoot at. Also our violent crime rate is very low.
If I lived in america however I would definitely persue owning a selection of guns, because: --the country is big enough to actually shoot them (target practice) --licences and purchase are no hassle --its a high-violence country (killer burglars) --you sincerely can't trust the government (killer cops)
Now let's see, so I'm standing at the counter with a huge bundle of cash right?
.50 sniper rifle + scope to make it accurate at one mile (dunno the name) AK-47 kalashnikov assault rifle Mossberg compact 12 gauge shotgun which d33p has in his signature M1911A1 military pistol for .45 ACP snub-nosed .38 revolver thats really small, in stainless steel
So as you see if I would buy guns it would all be military/police hardware. I'd use it for target practice & such (I'd particularly like shooting the .50 at 1 mile distance, must be quite a rush ) but also defense if I'd have to.
Can an actual gun expert here comment on my selection?
Because this poll in a significant part is about defense, let me elaborate how I see this selection.
.50 sniper rifle --- world war three? AK-47 kalashnikov assault rifle --- when something in the immediate neighborhood requires attention Mossberg compact 12 gauge shotgun --- home defense duo M1911A1 military pistol for .45 ACP --- home defense duo snub-nosed .38 revolver --- personal protection
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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shriek
*********

Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3,274
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: Asante]
#5402326 - 03/15/06 07:30 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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i dont want a gun , guns breed violance and america is a perfect example. no western country has more gun violance and no western country has more guns availble. i can see the connection, here in norway where not even cops wear guns there are hardly any gun violance.
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barfightlard
tales of theinexpressible



Registered: 01/29/03 
Posts: 8,670
Loc: Canoodia
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: shriek]
#5402337 - 03/15/06 07:35 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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no violence breeds guns, america is just fucked. There are tonnes of guns in other countries, but they don't have the same problems america does, they do but not even close to the scale they do.
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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: shriek]
#5402373 - 03/15/06 07:50 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
i dont want a gun , guns breed violance
Mine would be primarily fun guns. I would perhaps hunt a few times but not at all regularly in any way (and not with those things LOL) but mainly use them for target practice.
Some people think that's fun and I don't think shooting at bricks, bottles and tin cans will lead to more violence.
The violence that counts is committed by a certain breed of people from all ages, races and walks of life who simply lack basic conscience, and most other voilence is commited by wholesome people who try to defend themselves against those types once they slipped into predator mode.
The truely violent people will be violent no matter what the law is, but strict gun laws does prevent many sheep from effective defense against the wolves.
If I were sitting behind a plate of nausea at Mc Donalds and some predator comes in and starts shooting people I'd be thankful if some hippie pulls a concealed gun and opens up to him in a smith & wesson way.
In a violent society it makes sense to have something to defend yourself, even if you don't agree with the notion. In medievel times everyone carried something, whether it was a nunchaku up the sleeve in China or a one-foot dagger in France.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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shriek
*********

Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3,274
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: Asante]
#5402397 - 03/15/06 07:58 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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when i think about it, i could use a shotgun and go hunting in the forrest. i can also see how target shooting can be fun.
another thing, around here, we fight like men, we can fistfight like crazy here (must be our viking blood) , either you win or you loose, maybe you get a black eye or a broken arm but you live the next day. and you can still call yourself a man either you win or loose and not a coward.
yes of course, if people ran around here and shot eachother i would have something to defent myself , but mostly i would seek another place to live.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: shriek]
#5402448 - 03/15/06 08:10 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
another thing, around here, we fight like men, we can fistfight like crazy here (must be our viking blood) , either you win or you loose, maybe you get a black eye or a broken arm but you live the next day. and you can still call yourself a man either you win or loose and not a coward.
You're mistaking. There is a low percentage of people, no matter where you live, who's preferred way of fighting is slitting your throat from behind or other things that have nothing to do with fighting or honor in any sense.
Some people among us are Michael Meyers on the inside. Most can, with quite some restraint, overcome their urge to harm, hurt and butcher people (which is admirable considering the power of that urge), but some cannot.
Fistfighting has ethics. It is monkey social behavior and unwritten rules. Its recreational testosterone display. Some people however have very little humanity within them and are coldblooded killers.
Do an indepth websearch on the Antisocial Persoinality Disorder/Sociopathy/Psychopathy cluster. Much is just psychologic mumbo jumbo or plain BS but you'll find consistent reference to a certain group of people which are, to quote the movie, "natural born killers".
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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daimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: shriek]
#5402455 - 03/15/06 08:11 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
shriek said: i dont want a gun , guns breed violance
That's like saying cars breed violence, or knifes. Ignorance, stupidity, hate, and greed all breed violence. Guns do nothing of the sort. They are merely a tool.
Quote:
shriek said: and america is a perfect example. no western country has more gun violance and no western country has more guns availble. i can see the connection,
I hope you don't seriously see things as this black and white. I'd like to see the facts upon which you base this correlation.
Quote:
shriek said: here in norway where not even cops wear guns there are hardly any gun violance.
Norway has one of the highest gun ownership rates of any western European country, and certainly cannot be classified as having "hardly any gun violence" with 3% of homicides commited with a firearm, and 38.7% of suicides commited with a firearm. Source
There is violence though. In 1993 there were approximately 16,096 violent crimes reported. In 1999, it rose to 20,371. In 2005, it was at 25,064. Of that, around 35-40(average) are murders. 3% of 35-40 is 1.05-1.2. Violent crime is on the rise, and it is not the fault of guns.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 days
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: shriek]
#5402509 - 03/15/06 08:32 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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i dont want a gun, guns breed violance and america is a perfect example.
guns do not breed violence. they fire projectiles.
no western country has more gun violance and no western country has more guns availble.
false and false.
you know how the anti-drug crowd is amusingly ignorant about drug facts and often makes silly and inaccurate statements on the subject?
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 days
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: Asante]
#5402574 - 03/15/06 08:55 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Can an actual gun expert here comment on my selection?
i'm not an expert, but i'd amend it like this:
get a rifle that is an intermediate between the kalashnikov and the fifty cal. that fifty is good for taking out vehicles at great distances, but it's very heavy and large. it would be difficult to move and hide, which would be a problem in a guerilla warfare scenario. in peacetime, it's a beast to shoot recreationally and worthless for self defense. it's overkill. i'd also not recommend a shotgun with a pistol-grip-only. they're hard to hit with.
my simplest recommendation for someone who would like to become an armed citizen is to start with a shotgun. you can hunt pretty much anything with it, clay birds are lots of fun, and it's the best all around weapon for home defense.
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 days
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: Silversoul]
#5402598 - 03/15/06 09:06 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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while i'm on recommendations...
I'd like to have a gun, but I would want to get some non-lethal ammunition. I've heard about these shotgun shots that have salt in them, so they don't kill the person, but it causes a bunch of salt to penetrate their skin
nothing coming out the end of a shotgun is non-lethal. rock salt can kill.
if you shoot someone with rock salt, you're opening up yourself to a lawsuit for inflicting unecessary suffering, or criminal charges for assault, attempted murder, manslaughter, or murder.
the DA and your target's lawyer are going to use the fact that you hand loaded rock salt (what kind of sadistic nut are you? and if you killed them, was it an accident? did you not feel you were justified in killing them?) into shotgun shells, intending to use them on people, as ammunition of their own against you, and a jury is going to go right along with it.
you don't point a gun at someone unless you intend on and are justified in killing them. you don't shoot to scare or wound... anything that isn't worth killing someone over isn't worth shooting them over in the first place.
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shriek
*********

Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3,274
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5402607 - 03/15/06 09:10 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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in my city there has been one muder in 10 years and that was with an axe not a gun. now i will call that hardly any gun violance. and guns in norway are mostly hunting rifles and not hand weapons like revolvers and such. i have never met one person who has been treatend or seen any guns at all, when i was in jail i didnt meet 1 person in the prison i was in that was involved in any crime with guns. . and most murders here are done by jealous husbands that kills their wife and not drive by shootings and whatever. but im not gonna aruge, im satisfied how things are here in the arctics of norway so
as for the guns breed violance sentence i made (lol i should know better than sayin that in this forum) but anyways i know it seems plausible and it may not be fact, yes a gun really does only fire a bullet and its the person who pulls the trigger that kills, but i do belive (fact or not) that if people here had more guns availble more murders would have happened. but forget that sentence :P
also i belive that the fact that cops dont wear guns here contributes to there is less criminals using guns. of course time is chaning, more and more immigrants are coming to this country some of them from areas with war, some of them was soldiers as kids and so on. this hekos increase the statistisc over violanet crimes. (but with that i dont mean im negative to immigrations just to make that very clear) its more of a challenge for the gov and for intergration politics.
and wiccan, i see your point im only speeking of my area without going into a analyzes of that,. there are fistfights , honorable or npt, but no gun fights and my point was simple i think that is a good (at least better) thing.
peace 
ps there is a reason i dont post here so much, the english here is kind of complicated and i feel im unable to explain what i mean in a good way, i would have made much better arguments if this debate was in norwegian
*wanders quietly away from this debate*
Edited by shriek (03/15/06 10:12 AM)
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: shriek]
#5403094 - 03/15/06 11:54 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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where did you learn what you think you know about firearms?
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shriek
*********

Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3,274
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5403232 - 03/15/06 12:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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i have clearly used the word belive and im entitled to belive whatever i want, if you have some absolute true answers that says otherwise than anything i have said than please enlighten me. also i am able to see and observe what goes on around me. and then you have the obvious. im not sure what exactly you targeting here now. i have at least never claimed to be a expert on weapons or any such things.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: shriek]
#5403519 - 03/15/06 01:36 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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If people are looking for personal protection, your best bet is a handgun. Although shotguns armed with buckshot offer a severe degree of protection, they are bulky (at least the legal length ones) they are somewhat uncomfortable when placed under your pillow or mattress. .My favorite is my S & W .357 magnum. Armed with hollow point bullets, you will knock down whatever hit, wherever you hit it. I can get to my gun, take the safety off, and fire a well aimed shot in approx 3 to 4 seconds. (from a sleeping position).
Remember, tactically, guns are only as good as the accessibility of them.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: shriek]
#5403734 - 03/15/06 02:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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there are good reasons for not wanting to own a gun. a big one i can think of for shrooomery members is not wanting the legal liability of having illegal drugs and guns in their possession simultaneously. that's fine... but when you go talking about how guns breed violence, etc., as someone who knows better and cares about private firearm ownership, i have to say something.
it's no different from my reaction (and i imagine yours) when someone starts spouting off nonsense about drugs.
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5403753 - 03/15/06 02:25 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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if i'm going to be defending myself with a gun, i want it to be a long gun. i'm not an expert, but what i've learned from the experts is that for home defense, nothing's better than a shotgun.
i'll probably amass quite an arsenal of long guns before i bother buying a single handgun.
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shriek
*********

Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3,274
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5403873 - 03/15/06 02:48 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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, the strict rules here in my country to own a gun is fine by me, i dont mind if others have a diffrent opinion, everything can be debatet. i dont think im better than anyone-. im entitled to my opinion just as i think other are entitled to theirs either its gun, drug or other issues, both drugs and guns have potensial to be very dangerous and my opinon is that control is needet, i dont want neither guns or heroin flowing freely on the streets, you have the right to disagree with that
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daimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: shriek]
#5404115 - 03/15/06 03:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
shriek said: i dont want neither guns or heroin flowing freely on the streets
This is where you and I separate fundamentally. Guns and heroin don't bother me, it's the junkies and murderers that do.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5404203 - 03/15/06 03:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said: there are good reasons for not wanting to own a gun. a big one i can think of for shrooomery members is not wanting the legal liability of having illegal drugs and guns in their possession simultaneously. that's fine... but when you go talking about how guns breed violence, etc., as someone who knows better and cares about private firearm ownership, i have to say something.
it's no different from my reaction (and i imagine yours) when someone starts spouting off nonsense about drugs.
As to the "guns breeding violence" issue. I understand that as a responsible gun owner you don't believe that guns have a link to violence, because your experience and reason for owning a gun is not related to a wish or desire on your part to act violently towards other people.
I think, though, that labelling a gun as merely a tool is not accurate. A gun is a tool for violence, i.e. shooting projectiles. Saying that a gun doesn't have an inherent violent nature is like saying that a suitcase doesn't have an inherent storage nature. Violence is what a gun is designed for, as storage is what a suitcase is designed for...and both do a damned good job. If someone wants to store things, then they are going to be able to do this more effectively with a suitcase. If someone wants to go on a murderous rampage, then they are going to be able to do this more effectively with a gun.
This is by no means a condemnation of the private ownership of guns. However, when guns are around things are more dangerous because it puts an increased capacity for violence into the hands of the people who own them. This seems obvious to someone like me who can't really stand being in the same room as a gun...to me everyone who owns a gun just seems no different from a cop, really. Although now and then I'll meet a cop who seems allright, they all make me nervous.
I'm getting off track...my point is simply that while a gun is a tool it is a tool of violence, and just as the world is threatened by a particular type of violence because nuclear bombs exist, the world is threatened by a particular type of violence everytime someone owns a gun.
--------------------
Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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daimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
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I'm going to make a thread about the dislike of guns in P&S. I'd appreciate it if all who have participated in this thread stop through and throw some words into the mix.
--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: daimyo]
#5404436 - 03/15/06 04:39 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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We lazy.. need linkup
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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wilshire
free radical


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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: shriek]
#5404460 - 03/15/06 04:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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guns have potensial to be very dangerous and my opinon is that control is needet
that i agree with. children, the mentally ill, and people out on bail for, or convicted of, serious violent crimes should not be allowed to possess firearms. if you want to carry one in public you should have to obtain a permit and keep it concealed unless you're about to use it.
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
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that sounds reasonable. i can't disagree with anything you wrote there.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5407226 - 03/16/06 07:20 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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keep it concealed unless you're about to use it.
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wilshire
free radical


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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: Alex213]
#5407580 - 03/16/06 10:01 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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huh?
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5408028 - 03/16/06 12:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I prefer the HK msg90A1 for picking off idiots before they close 300 meters, I have yet to modify, its at home and I am walking around the country. Its a superiour gun with spurerior reliability. I can fairly easily remove the sight and proceed as if an assualt rifle, it has diopter sites, unlike the Hk msg90. Its alittle heavy, 14 lbs, but ah well, nearly six to seven lbs heavier than your weapon of choice, minus the drum. It shoots so sweet, smooth as butter. I have some picture of me fucking around with it in the woods back home. I will try and get someone to email them to me an then post them.
Specs
An extended ambidextrous safety/selector lever PSG1 trigger mechanism with crisp three pound trigger pull and adjustable trigger shoe Buttstock with adjustable length butt plate and vertically adjustable cheekpiece 10x Hensoldt telescopic sight Heavyweight polygonal barrel with harmonic stabilizer to induce consistent barrel ?whip? for increased accuracy 20-round magazines (standard G3) Forward assist for silent loading T-rail for accessory attachment
this is exactly what mine looks like.
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asd11
final sky

Registered: 08/02/04
Posts: 501
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To hell with sniper rifles, I'll get you on the other side of the planet when I wheel out this baby.

SS-25 intercontinental ballistic missile.
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Skeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 145
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5448371 - 03/27/06 05:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think any honest assessment of history and the tallying of violent deaths would tell us that weapons in the hands of people acting on behalf of governments have done more damage than small arms in the hands of private citizens acting as private citizens. However, an examination of the facts will not persuade those whose primary decision making processes are based on emotional reactions of fear and lack of experience and knowledge of the tools in question.
I find guns fascinating from an engineering standpoint, fun to shoot, and unequaled as a means of empowering the physically weak to resist aggression. I have also experienced the time it takes for a person to dial 911 and wait for law enforcement to show up vs. the time it takes to chamber a round into a twelve gauge shotgun and dissuade an intruder. God created man, Colonel Colt made them equal. God bless Colonel Colt, Bill Ruger, 'Carbine' Williams, John Browning, Daniel B. Wesson and all the other great, imaginative and intelligent people who have contributed to the development of personal small arms.
-------------------- Sincerely, Skeptikos
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snoopaloop53
No BetterFriend. NoWorse Friend.

Registered: 01/20/05
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Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Quote:
mack_tasticlies said: I prefer the HK msg90A1 for picking off idiots before they close 300 meters, I have yet to modify, its at home and I am walking around the country. Its a superiour gun with spurerior reliability. I can fairly easily remove the sight and proceed as if an assualt rifle, it has diopter sites, unlike the Hk msg90. Its alittle heavy, 14 lbs, but ah well, nearly six to seven lbs heavier than your weapon of choice, minus the drum. It shoots so sweet, smooth as butter. I have some picture of me fucking around with it in the woods back home. I will try and get someone to email them to me an then post them.
Specs
An extended ambidextrous safety/selector lever PSG1 trigger mechanism with crisp three pound trigger pull and adjustable trigger shoe Buttstock with adjustable length butt plate and vertically adjustable cheekpiece 10x Hensoldt telescopic sight Heavyweight polygonal barrel with harmonic stabilizer to induce consistent barrel ?whip? for increased accuracy 20-round magazines (standard G3) Forward assist for silent loading T-rail for accessory attachment
this is exactly what mine looks like.
You drive that thing to the range too? What's it got about a 12 cd changer too? sure it's cool to have a gun with a bunch of stuff so you can shoot a long way accurate, but go ahead a just try a gun where you put bullets in it and then pull the trigger. it's a lot more impressive when you have iron sights and a 50cent size grouping at 300m then all that stuff and a 50cent grouping at 150m
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starseed1066
officially hosed

Registered: 04/13/05
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Loc: close enough to get mysel...
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5453141 - 03/28/06 09:21 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said:you can get an SKS for less than $200. it's ugly, and you're not going to win any marksmanship trophies with it
i disagree, i think the lines of the SKS are simple, and classic. i also was a pretty good shot with my old one. certainly good enough to drop a deer (or a person, if it came to it) at 60+ yards with no scope. if outfitted with a composite stock, and a decent scope the sks can be a pretty damn good gun, with rediculous reliability to back it up.
i also have a 9mm large-frame taurus, a walther p22, and i'd like to another sks and a .45 this year.
-------------------- Under his instruction, I taped drumsticks to his head and turned him into a sort of mummy, or perhaps a caterpiller in a cocoon. He remains this way for about three hours, making bizarre noises, pretending to be a new species that must learn to walk and talk and eat, etc. And he communicates with other life forms by way of the antennae on his head. Eventually we jam a tube from a waterbong into it's mouth and figure he's learned all he needs to know.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5453820 - 03/29/06 12:26 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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keep it concealed unless you're about to use it.
So how many times have you had to "use it"?
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: Alex213]
#5455283 - 03/29/06 01:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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i don't carry a concealed weapon, i don't have a license to do so, and i'm not interested in getting one. i said early in this thread that i don't own a handgun and i don't want one.
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: wilshire]
#5455380 - 03/29/06 02:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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forgive him, he very rarely understands what he reads.
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

Registered: 02/25/06
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first of all, the range at which my rifle is effective is 800 meters, can't hit shit that far away without a scope. I can't hit shit that far away with the damn scope, its a long ways, on a good day, with very little wind and some luck, twelve hundred meters. That is a long way.
I bet you fifty bucks you can hit a 50 cent size grouping at three hundred meters, even with a scope, that is a very small space.
Like I said, I can strip it down and proceed as if it is an assault rifle, albeit an extremely accuate one and powerful one, weighing right about ten pounds, not much heavier than the current standard issue m16.
I also have some other guns for killing people when they get closer.
I also have a gun for killing motherfuckers at two miles.
An amorlite 50 cal sniper rifle, with a scope you can see god with. Single shot.
Pull the trigger on that bitch and you can feel reality itself shattering.
It is awesome, except the time I wasn't paying attention ang got too close while a friend was shooting it and the discharge from the muzzle break knocked me over.
When I opened the wooden crate it was shipped to me in, there was a bottle of advil in it. It was funny. My buddy who owns a gun shop in Atlanta put it in there, but still it was a fine joke.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
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I also have some other guns for killing people when they get closer.
Talk is cheap. I have a feeling that the first time you were in such a situation you would be more likely to cry and make a mess in your drawers than use a gun.
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

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Re: a gun poll for PAL [Re: Alex213]
#5459304 - 03/30/06 12:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have a feeling you feel safe talking all that shit there behind your computer screen, but if we met in person my mere presence would have you so shook that you would run home and put your balls firmly back in your mother's purse.
When you look intro my eyes you see the soul of a killer.
Edited by mack_tasticlies (03/30/06 12:31 PM)
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


Registered: 12/20/00
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Quote:
mack_tasticlies said: I also have some other guns for killing people when they get closer.
I also have a gun for killing motherfuckers at two miles.
An amorlite 50 cal sniper rifle, with a scope you can see god with. Single shot.
Pull the trigger on that bitch and you can feel reality itself shattering.
=proof that there is a connection between guns and violent people, at least part of the time.
--------------------
Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

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that is not proof of anything.
I was simply iterating the types of guns available to me.
I didn't say I use them becuase I have them.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
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would have you so shook that you would run home and put your balls firmly back in your mother's purse.
Nice line mack
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