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Invisiblemoog
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Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously...
    #5394050 - 03/13/06 12:34 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I have always believed that American astronauts landed on Earth's moon in the summer of 1969. But recently, i'm not so sure anymore. I'm just wondering, aside from the original 1969 video footage and photographs (which could easily be faked), is there any evidence that Apollo 11 actually landed on our moon?


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: moog]
    #5394080 - 03/13/06 12:44 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

moog said:aside from the original 1969 video footage and photographs (which could easily be faked)


could they? there was no photoshop in 1969, and Im sure there were many in the world with the resources and the motives to expose and American lie.

Other evidence might include the mirrors left on the surface which more than one nation uses for scientific measurments of different sorts.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: DieCommie]
    #5394191 - 03/13/06 01:40 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Well part of the reason I think we did, is that my grandfather worked in the space program around that time. He designed the control panel for one of the apollo missions, and as such had access to the high level NASA employees. Seems as though he would have mentioned something to us.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: moog]
    #5394321 - 03/13/06 04:13 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

> is there any evidence that Apollo 11 actually landed on our moon?

The fact that the Soviet Union and China never did anything to prove that the US didn't land on the moon pretty much answers your question. Remember, this was the height of the cold war and landing on the moon was a huge cold war battle. If the SU or China could have shown it to be a hoax, the US would have lost major face and the SU and China would have had a major win.

Look at the site, http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/apollohoax.html for the absolute best look at the hoax idea.

There is a huge volume of data that supports the claim that the US landed on the moon. Everything from the pictures provided by NASA, the number of people involved with the missions, the return of moon rocks, mirrors left on the moon that can be seen from earth, and even the short wave radio broadcasts from the moon made during the missions.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: Seuss]
    #5394336 - 03/13/06 04:28 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> is there any evidence that Apollo 11 actually landed on our moon?

The fact that the Soviet Union and China never did anything to prove that the US didn't land on the moon pretty much answers your question. Remember, this was the height of the cold war and landing on the moon was a huge cold war battle. If the SU or China could have shown it to be a hoax, the US would have lost major face and the SU and China would have had a major win.

Look at the site, http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/apollohoax.html for the absolute best look at the hoax idea.

There is a huge volume of data that supports the claim that the US landed on the moon. Everything from the pictures provided by NASA, the number of people involved with the missions, the return of moon rocks, mirrors left on the moon that can be seen from earth, and even the short wave radio broadcasts from the moon made during the missions.




He's right you know. We went to the damn moon. The conspiracy theorists that say otherwise are the exact kind of people that the words "conspiracy theorist" draws to mind. Paranoid, delusional people who are looking for some sort of excuse to justify their insane distrust of everything related to a government.

The entire case built against the apollo moon landing is one of the world's largest collections of cherrypicking. "I can't recreate this device using different materials, clearly thousands of people lied to us and the government is keeping massive secrets!". "It's plausible that maybe this picture is fake! Clearly everything we saw on live television and spent millions of dollars on is the largest hoax in human history!". "There is radiation surrounding the earth, and the astronauts aren't dead. Obviously they never left the atmosphere!" ( the man who discovered the radiation belt even thinks that that argument is moronic). I'd laugh at it if it wasn't so sad to see people be so wrong and so paranoid. They're just not in touch with reality, and if the scientific theory was a person, it would point and laugh at them.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: Konnrade]
    #5394368 - 03/13/06 05:38 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
The conspiracy theorists that say otherwise are the exact kind of people that the words "conspiracy theorist" draws to mind. Paranoid, delusional people who are looking for some sort of excuse to justify their insane distrust of everything related to a government.





There's nothing insane about distrusting the government. On the contrary, I think it's quite healthy. Unless you meant that their distrust is particularly insane because it interferes with their rational process—in which case I'd agree.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #5395590 - 03/13/06 03:24 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Quote:

Konnrade said:
The conspiracy theorists that say otherwise are the exact kind of people that the words "conspiracy theorist" draws to mind. Paranoid, delusional people who are looking for some sort of excuse to justify their insane distrust of everything related to a government.





There's nothing insane about distrusting the government. On the contrary, I think it's quite healthy. Unless you meant that their distrust is particularly insane because it interferes with their rational process?in which case I'd agree.



Yeah, that's essentially what I meant. It's not that they distrust the government that's insane, it's that they tend to be irrational in doing so. A lot of them are trying to bend facts into allignment with their viewpoint, instead of being a bit more logical about things.

It's healthy not to trust the government. What isn't healthy is to obsess over it to the point of being irrational.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: Konnrade]
    #5397782 - 03/14/06 04:05 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

> What isn't healthy is to obsess over it to the point of being irrational.

What I find truely disgusting are the people that take advantage of the irrational to make a quick dollar or two all the while stirring up the frenzy... all the books, all the faked pictures, all the stupid FOX specials, etc...


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: moog]
    #5397826 - 03/14/06 05:10 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Personally, I question America.

It doesnt exist!

All the people who claim they live in America are sitting in a government-sponsored center in Wales, south England and have many multiple personas. The statue of liberty was built in the North Sea.

People who say they have been there are either lying, brainwashed or have been flown in circles over the North Sea so they think they crossed the ocean.

All the scenes they see through the airplane windows are a kind of super high resolution LCD screen projection of a flight simulator, but where they land is Wales.


COME ON PEOPLE, you can doubt anything.
In space you have conservation of momentum so the Moon isnt that far away


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: Asante]
    #5397856 - 03/14/06 05:26 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Oh my god.... I'm british...

My life no longer has meaning :frown:

:lol:
I love the example. Good show.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: DieCommie]
    #5398048 - 03/14/06 07:41 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

could they? there was no photoshop in 1969






photoshop is not necessary to forge photographic images - it's a craft as old as photography itself.



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OfflineYthanA
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: moog]
    #5398164 - 03/14/06 08:38 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

What, are you saying this image is faked?



Actually it was computer generated. Here's the original:



But yeah I think the moon landing definitely wasn't real, just like the Holocaust and evolution.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: moog]
    #5398197 - 03/14/06 08:56 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

There's a reflector that was installed on the moon during one of the missions. There's a lunar observatory on earth that shines a laser beam at the reflector and measures the time it takes to reflect the beam back.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: Silversoul]
    #5398217 - 03/14/06 09:05 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
There's a reflector that was installed on the moon during one of the missions. There's a lunar observatory on earth that shines a laser beam at the reflector and measures the time it takes to reflect the beam back.




And I might add that it's possible for you and I to bounce a laser off of that thing if we want to. You just need to learn how to do it, and where to aim (it's not a very big reflector, after all.)

Teachers have done that with their classes before if I remember correctly/

That isn't exactly something you can hoax. It's only possible to ignore that if you're a raving retard.


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: Ythan]
    #5398233 - 03/14/06 09:10 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

In that picture why are ther no stars in the background. I mean out in space they should be everywhere.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: barfightlard]
    #5398323 - 03/14/06 09:41 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Are you serious?
Do yourself a favor and read the link Seuss posted first
( http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/apollohoax.html )
then come back if you are still in doubt.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: barfightlard]
    #5398448 - 03/14/06 10:08 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

> I mean out in space they should be everywhere.

Quote:

Do yourself a favor and read the link Seuss posted first ( http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/apollohoax.html ) then come back if you are still in doubt.




Check out the link... it is the best source for information about the moon landings with a huge volume of science explained in layman terms.


http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html#stars
Quote:

Bad: The first bit of actual evidence brought up is the lack of stars in the pictures taken by the Apollo astronauts from the surface of the Moon. Without air, the sky is black, so where are the stars?

Good: The stars are there! They're just too faint to be seen.

This is usually the first thing HBs talk about when discussing the Hoax. That amazes me, as it's the silliest assertion they make. However, it appeals to our common sense: when the sky is black here on Earth, we see stars. Therefore we should see them from the Moon as well.

I'll say this here now, and return to it many times: the Moon is not the Earth. Conditions there are weird, and our common sense is likely to fail us.

The Moon's surface is airless. On Earth, our thick atmosphere scatters sunlight, spreading it out over the whole sky. That's why the sky is bright during the day. Without sunlight, the air is dark at night, allowing us to see stars.

On the Moon, the lack of air means that the sky is dark. Even when the Sun is high off the horizon during full day, the sky near it will be black. If you were standing on the Moon, you would indeed see stars, even during the day.

So why aren't they in the Apollo pictures? Pretend for a moment you are an astronaut on the surface of the Moon. You want to take a picture of your fellow space traveler. The Sun is low off the horizon, since all the lunar landings were done at local morning. How do you set your camera? The lunar landscape is brightly lit by the Sun, of course, and your friend is wearing a white spacesuit also brilliantly lit by the Sun. To take a picture of a bright object with a bright background, you need to set the exposure time to be fast, and close down the aperture setting too; that's like the pupil in your eye constricting to let less light in when you walk outside on a sunny day.

So the picture you take is set for bright objects. Stars are faint objects! In the fast exposure, they simply do not have time to register on the film. It has nothing to do with the sky being black or the lack of air, it's just a matter of exposure time. If you were to go outside here on Earth on the darkest night imaginable and take a picture with the exact same camera settings the astronauts used, you won't see any stars!

It's that simple. Remember, this the usually the first and strongest argument the HBs use, and it was that easy to show wrong. Their arguments get worse from here.




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Invisiblemoog
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: Seuss]
    #5400121 - 03/14/06 05:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks everyone, especially Seuss for the links.

Quote:

There's a reflector that was installed on the moon during one of the missions. There's a lunar observatory on earth that shines a laser beam at the reflector and measures the time it takes to reflect the beam back.




This is probably the best answer I've heard yet. I didn't know about the reflector.

Personally i find the evidence backing up the hoax theory to be very flimsy. However, conversely, there is little evidence that couldn't be faked proving that it really did happen. Take for example, this reflector on the moon's surface. How do i know it's really there? OK, it's public knowledge. However, unless i've either a) seen it or b) used it, i can't really know for sure if it's there. I just have to take someone's word for it.

I'm very skeptical of both sides, so i'm holding off final judgement, although i'm leaning towards the choice that it did happen because frankly, there is nothing in terms of science preventing the possibility.

One thing that is pretty ridiculous though is the viciousness that some people (not on this forum) have against those who do not believe astronauts landed on the moon in 1969. People are expected to believe it without any direct evidence. That is not fair. It's similar to the situation where UFO fanatics expect skeptics to believe that UFOs are alien spacecraft without any direct evidence. That's not fair to the skeptics.

I do have one last question though, which has probably kept me the most skeptical about the moon landing: How did the lunar module get enough power to get OFF the moon? Certainly, the moon's gravity is 1/6 of Earth's, but even that is no laughing matter (or is it?). They still needed quite a bit of momentum to get back off the surface into space. I searched around everywhere but couldn't find the answer to this..


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: moog]
    #5401288 - 03/14/06 10:05 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It was almost a laughing matter. Take a look at all the propellant needed to get something into space from Earth, you need a Delta rocket, hundreds of feet high filled with flammable stuff. The propellant tank needed to lift the lander off the lunar surface fit in the corner of the module, and was a little bit taller than a human. It takes very little effort to lift something into lunar orbit from the surface of the Moon.

That said, you say the mirror on the moon is the best evidence you've seen. Well, as a geology student, let me tell you that nearly every lunar mission also dropped off seismometers to measure "Moon-Quakes" in an attempt to gauge how seismically active the moon is. The data from these was analyzed by dozens of universities around the world and is public knowledge now.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Did we land on the moon in 1969? No, seriously... [Re: moog]
    #5401453 - 03/14/06 10:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The moon's gravity is not a hard thing to escape. You could jump off of the damn thing if you wanted to. Not in the old space suits though. They were pretty stiff.

Look into that reflector. It is indeed there. The hard part is getting an actual laser to point at it. That would be expensive.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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