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 Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
 
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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 No More Ego Death 
#5393657 - 03/12/06 10:21 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have noticed an interesting trend lately. When I ingest a psychedelic substance I no longer experience what is known as "ego death". No change in my personality seems to take place. I used to be quite shocked by myself, but in the last year my personality seems to be stable no matter what situation or dose of entheogen. Is this a sign of growth or degradation?
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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 Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
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its a sign that drugs no longer work for you and you need to turn to alternate methods if you wish to continue transending your ego.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
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Posts: 23,576
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Deviate]
#5393940 - 03/13/06 12:08 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Agreed. It sounds like psychedelics have taught you all they can, and it's up to you to continue your spiritual growth on your own.
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Disclaimer!?
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Gomp]
#5394441 - 03/13/06 07:13 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
I have noticed an interesting trend lately. When I ingest a psychedelic substance I no longer experience what is known as "ego death". No change in my personality seems to take place. I used to be quite shocked by myself, but in the last year my personality seems to be stable no matter what situation or dose of entheogen. Is this a sign of growth or degradation?
I think it is a sign of your growth. Certainly evident of the fact that you've removed the impurities of the mind which directs your experience and your awareness.
I'd have to assume that you are still experiencing altered effects from the experience? Heightened awareness, etc. etc.?
I wouldn't find much merit in the suggestions that you must stop taking psychadelics and pursue other methods of "transcending the ego", or that psychadelics have stopped working for you. There is no sense in transcending something that you have purposefully created and transformed to best conduct your life.
Anyone who suggests that psychadelics have nothing further to teach you do not embrace the psychadelic experience for what it is. It isn't a hammer that one uses to remodel one's bathroom and then to be put away; it is a blessed experience that simply is. Unless absolutely nothing happens when you take psychadelics, and one still finds the experience enjoyable, then I don't see why one cannot still partake.
 
Peace. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
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surprises never cease, but "egodeath" is not a real issue, It is more like theater, which probably is obvious as you may bore from repetition, and then when you get cocky it stings you in the bum.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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I realize ego death is not really ego death. I just used the term to refer to what I consider being aware of the ego. It is a familiar term that others do understand.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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D4NK
Omni-Potent
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Even in the high dose range?
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Moderation is key
"There is no god higher than truth."
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Hey brother Coyotl 
I think, it is a very good sign, too. A sign of growth for sure ! Some sign of resonance, I would assume. I am in lack of words, but at least, that ignorance or resistance can not be the cause while ingesting psychedelic substance to it to not letting it work, it must have to do something with transcendence of ego and resonance with spirituality
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rfus80
Stranger
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5395525 - 03/13/06 03:05 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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You can't because you're trying. You can't try, you can't not try, you can't do anything. "You" don't really exist, therefore the ego cannot attain ego death, all you're doing is nurturing it.
Edited by rfus80 (03/13/06 03:07 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: rfus80]
#5396188 - 03/13/06 06:48 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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he knows that already
he's just checking if this hiatus is good or bad
and we can't say.
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lysergicide
Aurora Borealis
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maybe it's a sign that theres no more you really need to discover through this tool. move on from it, maybe? try something new.
"ego death" is alright through a tool like mushrooms. but its even better when you no longer need those tools to really grasp your reality.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
Registered: 05/07/04
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yes redgreen.
I remember how it was with weed and me. The first times it blew me far away, then we set some bubbling challenge almost every night, to see, who will be the last to stand with heavy loads. Now, it will only blow me away, if I will do a longer break, perhaps that is the key ?
I don't know, if it's pure 'adjusting' of ones mind, and if, what is the difference with your mind coping with the drug or better, your mind utilizing the drug
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MarkostheGnostic
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Do you not use the energy of the psychedelic in conjunction with a technique?
I quickly recognized that very intense Yoga could be done with psychedelics. For example, there is a decrease in pain when performing 'asanas,' and greater flexibility to go into the form with increased concentration. In turn, the force exerted by the body produces variations and intensifications of visions. Again, during the 'kumbhaka' or retention of breath between 'puraka' [inhalation] and 'rechaka' [exhalation], my awareness has often opened up into timelessness to an extraordinary degree. What was probably a short span of clock time seemed an eternity that was respendent with pure energy and ecstasy - break-through states of higher consciousness (samadhis).
Stan Grof learned to use breathing techniques (holotropic breathing) which probably replicates Yogic techniques, and subjects plunged into the birth-death sequence that apparently exists between the mind-moments (if that makes any sense) and results in a revivification of one's last birth experience.
Even a techique in Jnana Yoga, like the Vichara Atma [Who am I?] as taught by Sri Ramana Maharshi, can bring one's mind into the Heart Cave and result in an experience of oneself at Atman, the Eternal Witness, which is Jnana [Gnosis]. On psychedelics, in my youth, I personally favored the more Shaktic Hatha [Sun-Moon] or Kundalini exercises for creating a rapid and radical shift in consciousness. Hyper-pranic states can replace ego-consciousness in transient Nirvikalpa Samadhi experiences - humming, inner illuminated, electric states that may then open the Heart Center upon the descent from the Crown Center.
I am a little wary of these very energetic states at this point of my life, and will perhaps pursue the deeper, stiller descent into the Heart Center (wherein the Red and White 'Drops' are said to re-unify in certain Tibetan Buddhist practices; and in preparation for my physical ego death, which will 'probably' be a cardiovascular accident).
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Yes, you have to be very careful with things like Kundalini. There are many people that screw up their energy systems and go crazy practicing without a firm base in meditation. Opting for the more quiet, contemplative practices will be much more beneficial for psycadelic exploration.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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I do. I use shamanic techniques. I have found that this is so much easier to focus on now that I am not concerned with my flaws and weirdnesses. I also have found that meditation is much easier lately. I have reached a point of total self acceptance these days. It does not mean that there is not room for growth, I just feel that it has taken a different turn. I see it as a positive, I was just wondering what others think.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
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so how is the salvia experiment going?
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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It is going quite well. I am undertaking complex visualization exercises using increasingly larger doses of salvia. This is an attempt to tame this "beast". I am at 100mg of 10X so far. At this dose I am in full control of my visualization capability. Beyond this I slip a little, but I am working on it. I have found it to be a valuable visualization tool.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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MOTH
Wild Woman
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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If you've gotten to this point on your path, would you mind sharing where you were when you first started?
It might be encouraging to hear. Total self-acceptance...that seems like a faraway dream to me. Just wondered where you began.
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porcupine
Stranger
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
It is going quite well. I am undertaking complex visualization exercises using increasingly larger doses of salvia. This is an attempt to tame this "beast". I am at 100mg of 10X so far. At this dose I am in full control of my visualization capability. Beyond this I slip a little, but I am working on it. I have found it to be a valuable visualization tool.
are you smoking it? can you go into more detail about what this visualization entails? salvia is something i am extremely curious about.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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 Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Sinbad]
#5406105 - 03/15/06 09:47 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've experienced THAT which is symbolized by the seed syllable OM. It is the finite dissolving into the Infinite. I have experienced the descent of the Infinite into the finite - that which is symbolized by the seed syllable HUM. The first is a 'peak' experience, the second is a 'plateau' experience upon which I live full time along with degrees of continual awareness of the Infinite. Sometimes I yearn for an "ascent towards Universality " [OM] as Lama Govinda worded it - Sahasrara - Kether - with the expectation of "descending towards Realization" [HUM] once again into my psychophysical abode. I'm not ready to ascend and not descend (i.e., 'die') yet.
http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Philosophy-Lama-Govinda.htm
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (03/16/06 03:37 PM)
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Newbie
User of semicolons.
Registered: 07/18/04
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
I realize ego death is not really ego death. I just used the term to refer to what I consider being aware of the ego. It is a familiar term that others do understand.
You could also say that you're aware of the lack of ego...the fact that "something else" exists, the fact that you can condescend your current consciousness and look at it from another perspective. That was insanely eerie the first time it happened to me 
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
I've experienced THAT which is symbolized by the seed syllable OM. It is the finite dissolving into the Infinite. I have experienced the descent of the Infinite into the finite - that which is symbolized by the seed syllable HUM. The first is a 'peak' experience, the second is a 'plateau' experience upon which I live full time along with degrees of continual awareness of the Infinite. Sometimes I yearn for an "ascent towards Universality " [OM] as Lama Govinda worded it - Sahasrara - Kether - with the expectation of "descending towards Realization" [HUM] once again into my psychophysical abode. I'm not ready to asend and not descend (i.e., 'die') yet.
http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Philosophy-Lama-Govinda.htm
Want do you want Markos? Praise, recognition, a medal? What exactly was the point in your post?
Maybe this is precisely the kind of ego trickery Trungpa Rinpoche was talking about when he wrote the book "Cutting through Spiritual Materialism"?
"Ego is able to convert everything to its own use, even spirituality. For example, if you have learned of a particularly beneficial meditation technique of spiritual practice, then ego's attitude is, first to regard it as an object of fascination and, second to examine it. Finally, since ego is seeming solid and cannot really absorb anything, it can only mimic. Thus ego tries to examine and imitate the practice of meditation and the meditative way of life. When we have learned all the tricks and answers of the spiritual game, we automatically try to imitate spirituality, since real involvement would require the complete elimination of ego, and actually the last thing we want to do is to give up the ego completely. However, we cannot experience that which we are trying to imitate; we can only find some area within the bounds of ego that seems to be the same thing. Ego translates everything in terms of its own state of health, its own inherent qualities. It feels a sense of great accomplishment and excitement at have been able to create such a pattern. At last it has created a tangible accomplishment, a confirmation of its own individuality." - Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche
If anyone really wants to know what real ego-loss is all about, i seriously recommend reading some of Trungpa Rinpoche's books. They are truly excellent. To read more of his book "Cutting Through Spiriutal Matrialism" click here:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/tib/cutting.htm
Edited by Sinbad (03/16/06 09:19 AM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Sinbad]
#5407503 - 03/16/06 09:27 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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yeah he was good but so materialistic.
and I mean that so you can use it in a good way.
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Are you talking about Trungpa Rinpoche? In what way was he materialistic? Do you mean materialistic int he sense that he was a Nirmanakaya manifestation of the Buddha? In that he had physical/material form? Can you please explain. Im not much good with cryptic posts.
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Edited by Sinbad (03/16/06 10:28 AM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Sinbad]
#5408844 - 03/16/06 03:07 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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please get better at cryptic posts.
shamballa has become almost as big a business as
chevrolet!
take no offense at this
one can find gems in sewage
and that is the mentality to cultivate
when learning the dharma.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Sinbad]
#5409027 - 03/16/06 03:49 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I didn't know there was a medal for having had certain inner experiences  . And I do not seek praise - not even a teacher-of-the-year parking space. No, I was responding to advice about being warned away from Kundalini-arousal type experiences. The OM experience of the Head Center, symbolized by the Wrathful Deities is a classic "Mysterium Tremendom" which, as I was saying, I had experienced in some measure. I had also experienced a positive secondary plateau experience symbolized by the Knowledge-Holding and Peaceful Deities - two phases. While I appreciate a cautionary concern, I sometimes yearn for another profound 'peak' experience, but (as I read in Dion Fortune's 'The Mystical Qabalah' today), one must be prepared NOT to return, and I said that I was not ready to die just yet. Does this clarify my intention any better?
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Sinbad]
#5409056 - 03/16/06 03:57 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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BTW, feel free to project Buddhahood on Trungpa, but while at Naropa he hit on people's wive's, including the wife of a former friend of mine; he had people cut off Bhagvan Das' long hair while he slept off a drunk; and Trungpa himself was a serious alcoholic and cigarette addict. I've heard lots of rationalizations about peoples' expectations for an 'Enlightened' teacher being illusions, but despite the great books that his intellect spewed - the meanings did not seem to be embodied by him. He was quite a jerk.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Putting your harsh judgments aside Markos, i feel that maybe your mind is not very open, and as most peoples, very caught up in external appearances. Let me first direct your attention to Tibetan Buddhist History, particularly one famous Tantric master from the Karma Kagyu Lineage, called Marpa the Translator. With ones ordinary vision, one might mistake such an enlightened being for an ordinary flawed person because his harsh treatment of Milarepa (beating him, making him build various towers, getting drunk).
But if you examine carefully, you will see that every action that he performed, was purely out of love and kindness. Such Vadyadhara's like Marpa, are completely beyond limitations and as such there actions may seem at times contradictory to Buddhist philosophy, but in fact, every action is only for breaking the limitations and preconceptions of the students,helping them to overcome there many diverse obstacles toward liberation.
For example, during the sixties when Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche came to teach a large crowd of hippie types, instead of wearing a traditional lama's clothes, he wore a suit. He then proceeded to hop up onto the throne with a six pack of beer and a packet of cigarettes and introduce himself. This action was purely to cut through peoples preconceived ideas, expectations and assumptions about how a Tibetan Lama should be.
The problem here was not with the teacher, but with the vision of the beings receiving teaching. The path of Tantra is about transforming impure karmic vision, into pure vision. In this respect Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche was totally accomplished. His books to me reflect perfectly the deep realization of an accomplished Vajra master!
The truth about Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, is that he was an incomparable meditation teacher, artist, poet, translator, vajra master, and social visionary who, more than any other person, is credited with establishing the genuine path of buddhadharma in the West.
I cannot blame you for having some doubts about his behaviour. But know that until you have pure vision, and have some deep understanding and realization within Vajrayana, you are in no position to judge a teacher such as Trungpa, who has helped so many beings to liberate themselves from samsaric bondage through his knowledge and total integration with the western mind.
And as for your claim that he was not the embodiment of what he taught, i totally disagree, in the strongest of ways. To me, his his actions always seemed to be a perfect and intimate expression of his books. I suggest you pick up a copy of "Crazy Wisdom" sometime.
In short Markos, i fell that it may be your limitations and judgement on this matter that prevent you from seeing through superficial appearences. Also you need to understand a little more about the role of the Guru in Vajrayana Buddhism.
Edited by Sinbad (03/17/06 05:10 AM)
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fresh313
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 Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Sinbad]
#5410519 - 03/16/06 10:33 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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i feel the same way about Ram Dass. ill have to check out that book 'Crazy Wisdom', thanks for sharing Sinbad.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Sinbad]
#5411412 - 03/17/06 05:39 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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"...you are in no position to judge a teacher such as Trungpa, who has helped so many beings to liberate themselves from samsaric bondage through his knowledge and total integration with the western mind."
AS IF...you know that the above is the case. Your hero worship is touching, if not so touchingly naive. Apparently, writings of Trungpa's have opened you to an attitude toward Buddhist spirituality previously not held. That is nice. But your own 'splitting' of good-bad is also apparent here. You have held alternating opinions of me in the past, and there is no reason that I would expect that to change, but between your own criticism of my take, and your inordinately high evaluation of Trungpa (as a human being, not as a prolific author), I'd say that you should take notice of the extremes that you are torn between before you evaluate anyone else. I was studying Vajrayana Buddhism in 1973, btw, visiting Geshe Wangyal in the NJ Vajrayana center, among other pursuits. Were you even incarnate in 1973?
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Sinbad]
#5411492 - 03/17/06 06:52 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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in order for the contemplation of the master to be of value, one thinks that one needs to respect the master.
this is bull shit.
this is the bullshit that this master (trunpa) is trying to teach you.
some meditations such as putting one's teacher on their head and envisioning their teacher's teacher on that head etc. can go pretty strange if you are suffering erosion of respect and you think respect is important in this context.
putting one's teacher on one's head needs to be transcended. taken out of context of respect , social power games, and put into the realm of dharma, and insight.
it is private.
no conversions need to be done to convince yourself of what you need as far as "faith" goes in this.
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
Registered: 12/23/04
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
"...you are in no position to judge a teacher such as Trungpa, who has helped so many beings to liberate themselves from samsaric bondage through his knowledge and total integration with the western mind."
AS IF...you know that the above is the case. Your hero worship is touching, if not so touchingly naive. Apparently, writings of Trungpa's have opened you to an attitude toward Buddhist spirituality previously not held. That is nice. But your own 'splitting' of good-bad is also apparent here. You have held alternating opinions of me in the past, and there is no reason that I would expect that to change, but between your own criticism of my take, and your inordinately high evaluation of Trungpa (as a human being, not as a prolific author), I'd say that you should take notice of the extremes that you are torn between before you evaluate anyone else. I was studying Vajrayana Buddhism in 1973, btw, visiting Geshe Wangyal in the NJ Vajrayana center, among other pursuits. Were you even incarnate in 1973?
This is not matter of hero worship at all! Many people have a firm commitment to Shambala teachings. I happen to be very knowledgeable on both sides of the argument as far as Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche is concerned, and what i have noticed is that many of his students, as a result of his teaching, are now very serious and dedicated Vajrayana practitioners. Those who were not so inclined to regard Trungpa as their teacher, often sought teachings elsewhere from teachers who more easily fitted into there view of how a Tibetan Lama should be and act, and that fine as far as it goes.
But if you begin to insult a teacher because of your lack of understanding of his actions, then the only fault lies with your own point of view. Because as practitioners of Vajrayana know, there is no need to raise fault, as all judegment is related to our own attitudes, considerations of point view, and what kind of vision we have. When you judge someone based on your own preconceived ideas, that is an action based upon nothing but ignorance. Examining the teacher means examining the teaching, because from a Vajrayana perspective, its impossible for someone to discover another's realization based upon external actions alone. Did you read up about "Marpa the Translator"?
I somehow knew that you were going to quote just that little section of my post as its the only section you can actually raise an argument with (a weak one at that). Personally i have no opinion about you at all anymore, as i no longer see the beneift in creating one. All i am doing is responding to your post as best i can.
P.S. Higher number of age, doesn't necessarily mean increase in knowledge. It is a myth that wisdom comes with age, mostly its only erectile disfunction that goes hand in hand. 
P.P.S I enjoyed the way your post tried to exert superiority in age to suppress the views I presented to try and portray them as juvenile rubbish. It was quite disrespectftul but amusing at the same time!
Edited by Sinbad (03/17/06 12:52 PM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Sinbad]
#5411806 - 03/17/06 08:47 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
It is a myth that wisdom comes with age, mostly its only erectile disfunction that goes hand in hand.
While an older man may be less wise than a younger man, it is generally true that if you take the same man at 20 and look at him when he's 40, he will have gained more wisdom in that time.
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Silversoul]
#5411816 - 03/17/06 08:49 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes that is true in some circumstances. But the very opposite has also been observed. Mostly with age comes pride and stubborness. As alot of older people stop asking questions and assume they know it all!
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Edited by Sinbad (03/17/06 09:17 AM)
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BuddahKillah
U WANTFITE!?!?!?!?!?!
Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 1,733
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Sinbad]
#5412902 - 03/17/06 01:52 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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"As a lot of older people stop asking questions and assume they know it all!"
If they do that they where never wise to begin with
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Not always. You see many start off when they are young, slowly accumilating wisdom. Then due to this steady accumilation they have some kind of peak experiences associated with that wisdom. They then get attached to those experiences, and condition there minds with that, accumilating more and more intellectual knowledge to confirm those experiences.
In this way when they are conditioned with that, where once wisdom was increasing, now only pride and stubborness are increasing. Finally they feel bitter about not having those experiences repeated, and with the obstacle of "knowledge" they have aquired they reside to rest upon the "know it all" attitude.
In short, progress becomes blocked by attachment and ego. Where once there was openess and wisdom, now only pride and stubborn closed-mindedness remains.
"Beginners mind many possibilities, experts mind few!" - Shunryu Suzuki Roshi
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Edited by Sinbad (03/17/06 03:26 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Sinbad]
#5413549 - 03/17/06 04:28 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wisdom does NOT necessarily come of age, but I really need to hear some newbie to these things tell me how much I need to learn about something he just met and fell in love with. Not superiority...lad...common sense. You seem to have a problem with your elders, and the delivery of your opinion is obnoxious. I don't mind taking correction, as I still consider myself to be a student, and I frequently take correction from much younger humans than yourself (middle schoolers) when I am in error. As far as I was concerned, you were the rude one since you do not question further, but you are quick to criticize, while not taking criticism very well at all.
You exemplified exactly the point I was making about Trungpa - rationalizing his errant behaviors and projecting an exalted status on the man. I've read and own some of his books. Good author, simple and clear. My opinion is that Enlightenment translates into Compassion, and hitting on married women is not Compassionate to the husbands. No Vajra teaching in simple lust.
Puerile penis politics belongs to the late adolescent mentality that you still demonstrate, so please do not feign amusement at my comments. I never said "juvenile rubbish," I differed in that I withdraw all projections from 'holy men.' I am aware of Guru traditions. It is you who were attempting to be condescending, but I suppose Trungpa would tell you that it was just "Vajra Pride."
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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BuddahKillah
U WANTFITE!?!?!?!?!?!
Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 1,733
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Sinbad]
#5413583 - 03/17/06 04:33 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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How open do you think you are Sinbad? I know I can look back 5 years into the past and see how much of a fool I was. What will happen in 5 years when I look back on the me of now? I cant say for sure, but I can make a intelligent guess from my past experiences...
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Im in no way a newbie, falling in love with Tibetan Buddhism. I was born into a family of Tibetan Buddhist practiioners, and have been associating with teachers and recieveing teaching since as far back as i can remember. I have no problem with elders at all, but maybe the way i presented my view could have come accross as a little obnoxious, for this i apologize.
However i find that many of your comments have been quite patronising and disrespectful, using age as an excuse to undermine my posts content. It seems to be a common occurance amoungst human beings for one to claim inncoence whilst pointing the finger elsewhere.
As far as the whole Trungpa Rinpoche issue is concerned, we must agree to disagree on this matter. I have said everything i wish to say on this subject, and see no reason to conintue debating.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Sinbad]
#5414196 - 03/17/06 06:31 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I react when offended, like most everyone else. I have spent enough time being a doormat for people, but I try not to over-react to people and I do not cultivate disrespect, condescension, or a patronizing attitude. I may speak confidently on a subject in which I am steeped, but I do not attempt to claim superiority, which is simple arrogance.
We can agree to disagree about Trungpa. I consider Lama Anagarika Govinda to be an important teacher of mine - one whom I briefly corresponded with (I based my dissertation on his book The Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism). This work had a profound effect on my life and I have tremendous respect for this man's work and its ability to explain Kargyutpa doctrine to me. Yet...I respect him as a great teacher without the metaphysical projections, and I further respect his long marriage to his wife Li Gotami, which showed me many years ago that I didn't have to become a celibate monastic in order to maintain a mystic lifestyle. Thought I'd elucidate my position for the sake of clarity.
Fin.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: MOTH]
#5414346 - 03/17/06 07:45 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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"If you've gotten to this point on your path, would you mind sharing where you were when you first started?"
Where I started? I was 33, an alcoholic (5 case per week), had a severe anger problem, and I had a real persecution complex. I am now 41, but I mostly got over myself by the time I was 35. I was forced by my alcohol recovery to accept the self unconditionally. It was the only way I forgive myself for all the drama I had engaged myself and others in. It wasn't easy...but is was a requisite to survival in my case.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: porcupine]
#5414356 - 03/17/06 07:50 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes I am smoking it. My exercises are visualizations that require multi-stimulus. My favorite is peeling a large naval orange and noticing every nuance of it's smell, feel, and taste. This is an exercise that once it is repeated many times becomes second nature. Once I have acheived complete mastery I will try to use the skill to create alternate realities. It is like learning to lucid dream, but one is awake. Salvia is tricky because it can take you so far from the consensual reality you forget where you are.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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MOTH
Wild Woman
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
"If you've gotten to this point on your path, would you mind sharing where you were when you first started?"
Where I started? I was 33, an alcoholic (5 case per week), had a severe anger problem, and I had a real persecution complex. I am now 41, but I mostly got over myself by the time I was 35. I was forced by my alcohol recovery to accept the self unconditionally. It was the only way I forgive myself for all the drama I had engaged myself and others in. It wasn't easy...but is was a requisite to survival in my case.
Thanks for sharing...I do appreciate it and consider you inspiring.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
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you already do create alternate realities
that is less of a goal than a drawback
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_ 🧠 _
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dr0mni
My Own Messiah
Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 2,921
Loc: USF Tampa, Fl
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
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To Hue>> I think that you are no longer experiencing "ego death" because you have simply created a "new ego", one based on the psychedelic destruction of the mental pardigm that made up your "old ego". And so your identity has now been founded in a kind of anti-identity which does nothing with the ego but transform it.
Replacing one addiction with another is not overcoming the addiction (I'm sure you know that).
At first the novelty of the psychedelic experience was enough to shake you from your familiar life and give you a sense of change and growth. But as Ayne Rand said, "Familiarity breeds contempt". The novelty has slowly given way to familiarity, and each trip is no longer a shattering of an old ego, but instead an entrenchment of a new one.
as for Markos and Sinbad, why don't you guys take your personalisms into PM and quit cluttering the board with your game of wits.
Everyone is a teacher, and sometimes the lessons we learn are from a teachers' follies rather than their perfections. If a person's teaching's do not reflect their lives then it is hypocrisy. And if attitudes and obstensibly opposing lifestyles can coexist in one person then what does that tell us about the viability of those beliefs?
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: dr0mni]
#5414967 - 03/18/06 01:07 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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as for Markos and Sinbad, why don't you guys take your personalisms into PM and quit cluttering the board with your game of wits
because if they did that, we wouldn't be able to read them. i agree its generally impolite to "hijack" a thread as they say, but i personally like reading everything. there is often something to be learned.
Edited by Deviate (03/18/06 01:08 AM)
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: dr0mni]
#5415206 - 03/18/06 05:50 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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The way i see it, if our teachers were perfect, then we would make the mistake of looking for perfection outside of ourselves, when the true perfection lies only in our own nature. The reason teachers sometimes behave in strange ways is to cut through the "Holy" concepts that many westerners have about them, so that they wont become dependent upon the teacher and as a result look outside there own nature for perfection.
Its like that old zen saying. "If you meet the Buddha on the road, Kill the Buddha!"
Now dont take this statement literally guys
Hue >> I apologize for highjacking your thread like that. I was thinking you might have something to say on the subject as you have experience with Shambala and Trungpa's teachings.
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Edited by Sinbad (03/18/06 05:59 AM)
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: dr0mni]
#5415221 - 03/18/06 06:20 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
dr0mni said:
The novelty has slowly given way to familiarity, and each trip is no longer a shattering of an old ego, but instead an entrenchment of a new one.
None of which demonstrates why exactly this is a detriment to oneself and is not preferred. When one's old, dilapidated, ineffective house is torn down and consciously, purposefully rebuilt to fufill the preferences and needs that one requires of that house, where is the sense in continuing to destroy one's house?
If one's sense of self is structured to remain open and conducive to new experience, and to, in effect, be transparent, then there is no sense in attempting to transcend it or escape it in order to obtain some other state. It is a senseless struggle to strive to reinvent the diamond.
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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dr0mni
My Own Messiah
Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 2,921
Loc: USF Tampa, Fl
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
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of course, if one is happy with their new identity/ego then they should just leave it. We will never be able to escape from a reality constructed out of past experience until we die. So striving for continuous ego death can just be another kind of addiction/distraction.
I'm reminded of the entertainment industries constant stuggle to be "Edgier" than before, and how it has not produced innovations, but rather mediocrity.
(I'm not saying that any of this applies to you directly Hue, I'm just speculating at your situation)
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fresh313
journeyman
Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 13 years, 3 days
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: dr0mni]
#5416524 - 03/18/06 04:48 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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i say we all get together, get some boxing gloves, and beat whatever egos we have out of each other.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: fresh313]
#5417009 - 03/18/06 07:57 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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ooh blood
ego blood
yummmy
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_ 🧠 _
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: dr0mni]
#5417861 - 03/19/06 01:53 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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"To Hue>> I think that you are no longer experiencing "ego death" because you have simply created a "new ego", one based on the psychedelic destruction of the mental pardigm that made up your "old ego". And so your identity has now been founded in a kind of anti-identity which does nothing with the ego but transform it.
Replacing one addiction with another is not overcoming the addiction (I'm sure you know that)."
Shit, I know it...but I can dream... Now I gotta think of new ways to twist myself....the old one's don't work anymore...
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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In truth... I seem to be much happier these days. I get over myself so much more quickly. Age has a lot to do with this as well I am sure.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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When I ingest a psychedelic substance I no longer experience what is known as "ego death".
Suggestion: try adding nitrous oxide during the peak of your usual trip routine. You'll find it will smack you right back to square one with the so-called ego death (and maybe a few other things you haven't experienced yet) as if you were tripping for the first time.
PM me if you want details on how to get it and how to do it safely.
Warning: respect it, it's intense.
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Diploid]
#5423367 - 03/20/06 09:03 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am familiar with this technique.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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whiterasta
Day careobserver
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
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 Re: No More Ego Death [Re: Sinbad]
#5459412 - 03/30/06 12:39 PM (18 years, 22 days ago) |
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 AHHHHH! It is indeed good to see P&S is still consumed with the proselyzation of individual or similar groups of individuals arguing the subjective experience of their own spiritual expression , as if to asssume the more correctness of their interpretation over anothers. When each is indeed ones own ,can one compare? or can one compare only the subjectivley resonating concepts of others? This is indeed the futility of "group" spirituality or spirituality based upon any objective object such as written or spoken words.Spirtuality IS! and that is all that we hold in common or spirituality is not then there is no ground for discussion of it. Expression or experience or interpretation will forever be a subjective and intimate experience and not one which will ever be a common ground,ie; we are all correct in our individual spirituality and all incorrect in apllying it to groups. I qualify this by it being my subjective interpretation of the discord in spiritual expression as I interpret it
WR
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To old for this place
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sleepy
zZzZzZzZz
Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 3,888
Loc:
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
I sometimes yearn for another profound 'peak' experience, but (as I read in Dion Fortune's 'The Mystical Qabalah' today), one must be prepared NOT to return, and I said that I was not ready to die just yet. Does this clarify my intention any better?
warning i havent read any posts except a f ew on this (3rd page) and dunno how old this post might be. this caught my eye as it reminded me of the bible. "one must be prepared NOT to return" compare: king james bible Revelation 20[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."
death and hell, destroyed, so, staying in christ consciousness? the "second Death" is refered to in other places in revelation too. does that mean the first death is like, non-permanent and thus capable of occurring infinite times. i for some reason cant stay enlightened. i guess ihave to practice more
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: sleepy]
#5469520 - 04/01/06 11:24 PM (18 years, 19 days ago) |
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I think we can read our own meanings into the myhos of Biblical authors. Just what those authors had in mind is open to interpretation. Personally, I do NOT believe they were referring to historical events, but mythic movements described as historical events. It is 'cosmic time' which is described in pretty much all scriptures, but in the historical religions there is tremendous confusion because geography is named (often incorrectly) misleading Literalist people into confounding actual historical events past and future with mythic or metaphysical suppositions. First and second deaths correspond to born and born-again. One refers to physical existence, the second (birth and death) to the spiritual existence.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: No More Ego Death [Re: whiterasta]
#5469829 - 04/02/06 01:39 AM (18 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
AHHHHH! It is indeed good to see P&S is still consumed with the proselyzation of individual or similar groups of individuals arguing the subjective experience of their own spiritual expression , as if to asssume the more correctness of their interpretation over anothers. When each is indeed ones own ,can one compare? or can one compare only the subjectivley resonating concepts of others? This is indeed the futility of "group" spirituality or spirituality based upon any objective object such as written or spoken words.Spirtuality IS! and that is all that we hold in common or spirituality is not then there is no ground for discussion of it. Expression or experience or interpretation will forever be a subjective and intimate experience and not one which will ever be a common ground,ie; we are all correct in our individual spirituality and all incorrect in apllying it to groups. I qualify this by it being my subjective interpretation of the discord in spiritual expression as I interpret it
WR
Finally.
Adult supervision! 
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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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