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OfflineMobius_Strip
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TiTs and Mycelium
    #5393435 - 03/12/06 09:12 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Ok, so maybe I am using selective buzzwords to draw attention to my post.

Anyway, I seem to suffer from slow colonization times with every substrate I've tried. I originally measured incubator temps by puting the temp probe inside a bottle of water, thinking it would be more accurate; I'm rethinking this idea. Should I be measuring the ambient air temperature in my incubator? The liquid temps in my TiT are around 81.5-83.5 deg F. The ambient air temp is around 77.2-79 deg F.


Edited by Mobius_Strip (03/12/06 09:20 PM)


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Offlinemikeownow
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: Mobius_Strip]
    #5393465 - 03/12/06 09:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The air in myn is at 85 and my myc grows so fast


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflineMobius_Strip
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: mikeownow]
    #5393501 - 03/12/06 09:31 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Cool, so it sounds like people are measuring ambient air temperature.


--------------------
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: mikeownow]
    #5393513 - 03/12/06 09:34 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Do you prepare your jars with FAE in mind? i never did untill recently. always to me 30days on the dot to colonize 1/2-1pint jars.

now that i have learned to use tyvek, my colonized times can sometimes be about a week for a pf jar(LC of course)

Always try to use LCs. they cut around 3days off incubation since the spores are already germanited and growing into rhizos


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Offlinemikeownow
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: mushboy]
    #5393519 - 03/12/06 09:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

FAE is a must!


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinestelthvue
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: mikeownow]
    #5393586 - 03/12/06 09:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

so a possible reason of seeing growth in only 2 out of 11 jars after a week could be FAE? I have a TiT with the temp at a constant 82 +/-1. But not much FAE gets to it besides when i check on the jars once a day. could FAE be the problem?


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinemikeownow
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: stelthvue]
    #5393593 - 03/12/06 09:53 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

if you got 2 holes in the jar lid that should be enough fae to have every jar have colonization


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinesatori85
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: stelthvue]
    #5393599 - 03/12/06 09:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

what is FAE?


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Offlinemikeownow
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: satori85]
    #5393602 - 03/12/06 09:56 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Fresh air exchange.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflineMobius_Strip
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: mikeownow]
    #5393632 - 03/12/06 10:06 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

My problems could be be air related as I only have a single 1/2, tyvek covered, hole in each jar. Although, I do have a couple jars with two holes and they don't colonize any faster. I only use LC to grain.


--------------------
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky


Edited by Mobius_Strip (03/12/06 10:07 PM)


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Offlinemikeownow
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: Mobius_Strip]
    #5393642 - 03/12/06 10:12 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

why tvek its a brf jar you just add a layer of dry verm on top and you are almost 100% contam free. That tyvek is probably only makeing it harder for air to exchange.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinestelthvue
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: mikeownow]
    #5393700 - 03/12/06 10:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

i used a single hole with two strips of micropore tape. one was put on before PCing and the other after inoculation. does this restrict FAE too much?


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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InvisibleDIRTYMAN
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: mikeownow]
    #5393703 - 03/12/06 10:48 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"Although, I do have a couple jars with two holes and they don't colonize any faster." Unless your holes are bigger than an inch I don't think one more would make a difference. Try a couple more and see what happens?

Letting jars colonize in a TiT with no FAE lengthened colonization time extremely. Putting a small aquarium pump in the TiT helped speed the process a bit IME.

Measure the ambient temperature, that's what your jars feel.


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OfflineMobius_Strip
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: DIRTYMAN]
    #5401655 - 03/14/06 11:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I use tyvek because I'm colonizing wbs, not cakes.

As far as the temp is concerned:
When the water temp in the tub is 86 the air temp is around 76. The jars touch the bottom of the tub where the temperatures are much higher than the ambient air temps. If I put a jar of water in the tub and measure the temp of the water it reads 86. If I measure the air temp it reads 76. When I turn up the heater to accomodate proper air temps the tub/water itself is hot as hell. With the jars touching the tub bottom that heat from the tub refers into the jar making the jar bottom too hot and the jar top at proper temps. I had a colonized jar touching the bottom of the tub (water temp @ 93) and it started killing the mycelium on the bottom of the jar.

From posts here and lots of searches I'm getting four things (let me know if this is faulty thinking):
1. Use agars tube and polyfill ports in the tops of grain jars for better FAE (dispense with the tyvek)
2. Place a raised platform in the bottom of the TiT to place the jars on top of (eliminating mycelium burn on the jar bottom)
3. Insulate the outside of the tub to help equalize and regulate temps.
4. Add a small aquarium pump into the TiT for better FAE.


--------------------
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky


Edited by Mobius_Strip (03/15/06 12:11 AM)


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Invisiblecappa
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: Mobius_Strip]
    #5401841 - 03/15/06 12:50 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

My TiT floor is 82F. Colonizing WBS. No FAE for the tub, just polyfill and coffee filters on the jars.

SA Colonized in 9 days.


--------------------
Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't.
~Cappa.


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OfflineMobius_Strip
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: cappa]
    #5406234 - 03/15/06 10:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Cappa:
What kind of thermometer do you use?
What is the variance between your TiT floor temp and jar top temp?
Which recipe do you follow for WBS?
How many/how large are the holes in your jars?
Do you use metal jar lids and just stuff the holes w/polyfill?
Do you inoculate the jars with LC?
How much LC do you inoc with?

My jars are taking about 3-4 weeks to mostly colonize....

I inoc with LC (about 4 cc per jar)
I use the Doc's WBS tek
Pint Jars
1/2" holes, metal lids, tyvek, polyfill
My temp variance in TiT from tub bottom to jar top is +/-10 deg...


--------------------
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky


Edited by Mobius_Strip (03/15/06 10:19 PM)


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Offlinemikeownow
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: Mobius_Strip]
    #5406295 - 03/15/06 10:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mobius_Strip said:
I use tyvek because I'm colonizing wbs, not cakes.

As far as the temp is concerned:
When the water temp in the tub is 86 the air temp is around 76. The jars touch the bottom of the tub where the temperatures are much higher than the ambient air temps. If I put a jar of water in the tub and measure the temp of the water it reads 86. If I measure the air temp it reads 76. When I turn up the heater to accomodate proper air temps the tub/water itself is hot as hell. With the jars touching the tub bottom that heat from the tub refers into the jar making the jar bottom too hot and the jar top at proper temps. I had a colonized jar touching the bottom of the tub (water temp @ 93) and it started killing the mycelium on the bottom of the jar.

From posts here and lots of searches I'm getting four things (let me know if this is faulty thinking):
1. Use agars tube and polyfill ports in the tops of grain jars for better FAE (dispense with the tyvek)
2. Place a raised platform in the bottom of the TiT to place the jars on top of (eliminating mycelium burn on the jar bottom)
3. Insulate the outside of the tub to help equalize and regulate temps.
4. Add a small aquarium pump into the TiT for better FAE.




WTF? My water temp is 82 and my tits ambient air temp is 82. The bottom is 82 etc. Your tit is not set up properly. You need to play with more tites


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflineMobius_Strip
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: mikeownow]
    #5406424 - 03/15/06 10:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I have a 200 watt submersible heater and a small submersible pond pump in the bottom of the bottom tub.

The top tub is tied down into the bottom tub with removeable zip ties.

The bottom tub is filled with water 2-3" to spare before it spills out.

I put my jars in the tub and put the lid on tight.

I use the same blue rubbermade bins I've seen in many other TiT pictures.

My thermometer has a waterproof probe for outdoor use, I put it on the top tub floor. I place the thermometer body on top of my jars and tell it to measure both temps with the lid on.

2-8 hours later I look at the temps

Which part is wrong?


--------------------
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky


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Offlinestelthvue
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: Mobius_Strip]
    #5406453 - 03/15/06 10:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

it could be your thermometer or water heater thats off. i have the same exact setup except my top tub isnt strapped down, i let it float. my heater temp is set at 83 and my ambient temp is 83.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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InvisibleMagash
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: Mobius_Strip]
    #5406668 - 03/15/06 11:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Incubator set up.

1. First thing get your bottom tub and put in your heater. I also add a water pump to mix the water that way it heats up much more evenly but it isn?t a necessary item. I got the tape from a boat shop and it has been working for some time. Good stuff for underwater.

2. Next put something (I used tall half pints) in each corner of the tub. This will keep the heater and pump safe from being smashed if I put in to many jars or do something stupid.

3. Now be sure to set the heater before you put on the top tub. I attach the top tub with zip ties cause the top tub will want to float.

4. Add the water. I like to add as much water as I can before it starts to spill out.

5. If you use the heaters with the external controls set them now to get ready for the jars. Mine use a dial and a sensor that gives the temp inside the chamber rather then the water. It also has a metal bulb rather then a glass one.


6. Finished


--------------------
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OfflineMobius_Strip
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: Magash]
    #5406748 - 03/16/06 12:08 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Not much different than my own setup.

Differences:
1. I use the suction cups that came with the heater instead of tape; the unit hasn't dislodged yet. Not to mention, my heater is all plastic and not easily broken. It also sinks in water and does not float. My heater and temp probe arent as nice as yours but I can't afford that right now anyway. For now my 200W, heavy, plastic, $40.00 pet$mart special will have to do.

2. My top tub is smaller in volume than the bottom tub but the same brand and same lid size so they nest tightly thus eliminating the need for jars in the bottom of the lower tub as spacers. I tie the tubs together with unzipping zip ties. There are two corresponding holes in each tub handle that are perfectly suited for this.

I also use a pond pump to circulate the water and I put a cap full of bleach in the water. I replace evaporated water once a week because it looses very little.


--------------------
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky


Edited by Mobius_Strip (03/16/06 12:15 AM)


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Offline_Lucid_
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: Mobius_Strip]
    #5406908 - 03/16/06 01:07 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

where do you live? its winter time in a lot of places and that means cold dry air, if your relitive humidity is very low and your are using a 1/2 inch diameter hole for air exchange, that hole is too big, you are losing too much moisture in your jars out to the ambient air and your getting stalled growth because of this, make your holes smaller and maybe add a small container of perile to your incubator, remember, you dont want to make it too humid, but you dont want it as dry as the ambient air outside the incubator that is sucking your jars dry. I was having this exact problem, hope this is the same with you, at least then if you can recognise the problem, this one is easily remidied.


--------------------
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OfflineLouddrum
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: _Lucid_]
    #5407085 - 03/16/06 05:21 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Why is there bleach in your water?


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OfflineMobius_Strip
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: _Lucid_]
    #5407906 - 03/16/06 11:36 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I live in a semi-humid climate similar to that of the PNW. My hygrometer reads 89% inside the TiT without added humidification.

It is still winter here...I thought that could be a large part of the problem.

Room temp: 68 deg F
Incubator ambient air temp: 77 deg F
Incubator floor (water) temp: 86 deg F

I'm thinking I'll try insulating the lid (1" styrofoam insulation board) to retain heat inside the incubator and place a 3/4" rubber floor mat - with holes in it) on the bottom of the incubator to keep the bottom of the jars from getting too warm. I'll loose a little volume inside the incubator but that's ok.

I put a cap full of bleach in the water to help keep it from harboring bacteria.


--------------------
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky


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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: Mobius_Strip]
    #5407949 - 03/16/06 11:48 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mobius_Strip said:

Ok, so maybe I am using selective buzzwords to draw attention to my post. 






the word TITs always gets my attention.

you can't have a TIT thread without having some TITs in it!~

so here ya go...







:grin:


--------------------
Laterz, Road

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OfflineMobius_Strip
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: Roadkill]
    #5407958 - 03/16/06 11:51 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

That's what I'm talkin about! Thanks for you input roadkill :grin:


--------------------
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky


Edited by Mobius_Strip (03/16/06 11:52 AM)


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InvisibleMagash
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Re: TiTs and Mycelium [Re: Roadkill]
    #5408567 - 03/16/06 01:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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