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superbob57
The Hobbit from the Shire


Registered: 05/21/05
Posts: 3,146
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 7 months, 24 days
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open or closed caps
#5391540 - 03/12/06 10:38 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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which ones give more weight.Open or Closed Caps? ????????????????????????????????????????????????
-------------------- If I run full blast, I'll never get tired and If I slow down I get stuck, so I opened my mind and let the wild things in and there not going away but getting stronger, day by day, I will find the source of all things it's only a matter of time and I will be one with the universe once again my friends...I will never find the end but the start of a new begining...-J.R.S.A Man Of Experiences ...IV 4-aco-DMT "Where Fools Rush In, and Angels Fear To Tread..." NN-DMT Pure Magic Wizard Dust! folio]http://www.redbubble.com/people/khaotehk/portfolio[/url] https://youtu.be/C1_YHJDRgqE
   I miss you, I love you my Angel Aimee Renee Orme March 14th 2020. Always and Forever will are Love will go on, Forever & Always are Etched on my Heart. ❤
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agar
old hand


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: open or closed caps [Re: superbob57]
#5391547 - 03/12/06 10:42 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Generally, the more mature a fruit is, the more it weighs.
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Dexter_Morgan
Towlie's Mentor



Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 6,666
Loc: higher than you
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Re: open or closed caps [Re: superbob57]
#5391553 - 03/12/06 10:44 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well if they opened, then they're more mature. Did you weigh more when you were a growing child or do you weigh more now that you are mature?
-------------------- Uncleluke, getting his assbeat, then he tries to delete it http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6355469#Post6355469 Tomato-Faced Banez http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5933438#Post5933438 Dexter's Thesaurus beer = guinness smoke = vaporize pubers = reasons to be pro-choice
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remediator
IllustriousPotentato


Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 137
Loc: NOLA ATM
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Generally speaking, true dat.
But theoretically, once the mushroom is opening most of it's energy is consumed by spore production... some mushrooms can produce as much as fifty percent of their mass in spores AFTER being picked. So the cells are actually depleted of the necessary constituents of spores and these are re-directed to spore mass... The cells in the rest of the fruit body, may continue to uptake more water/nutes from the substrate, thus increasing in volume, but, again I'm speaking theoretically here, not necessarily increase (much) in mass... And again, Harvesting mushrooms when the caps are closed is just good practice in light of the consequences of heavily sporulated casings... and the susceptibilty of flesh to bacteria once no longer actively growing... not to mention that "my" experience has been that as the mushrooms mature, the structure of the flesh gets lighter (especially at high humidity) and the stalks often become hollow, giving the appearance of a much larger mushroom. Of course, there is no doubt that allowing them to grow after the caps open will certainly give you more mass. But how much, and at what cost (stifled pinsets due to germinating spores, the fragility of thinned out, opened caps, the subtle loss of potency over time, and simple ease of drying)....that's the question.
And how is anyone gonna get clean spores out of a sack if it doesn't have a closed cap or two in there? 
Do the elderly weigh what they once did in their 20's?
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agar
old hand


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: open or closed caps [Re: remediator]
#5391831 - 03/12/06 12:35 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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>>>>once the mushroom is opening most of it's energy is consumed by spore production...<<<<<
Not so.
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remediator
IllustriousPotentato


Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 137
Loc: NOLA ATM
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Re: open or closed caps [Re: agar]
#5392141 - 03/12/06 02:39 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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---"Stipe growth is mainly the result of manifold cell elongation rather than cell division" ---"Decapitation of the stipe before meiosis arrests stipe expansion, showing that the cap is needed for the early development of the stipe (39, 99, 138, 150, 195). Consistent with this, grafting experiments revealed that during meiosis, the cap produces a diffusible substance acting on basidiocarp maturation, including stipe elongation (200). Rapid stipe elongation correlates with the end of meiosis 8 h after the nuclei in the bulk of basidia have fused (155, 202). Although the cap still influences the absolute length a stipe can achieve, in the postmeiotic basidiomes the stipe and cap develop independently from each other. Also, the stipe does not need to be connected to the vegetative mycelium, indicating that stipe elongation is an autonomous endotrophic event requiring no exogenous nutrients, growth factors, or water" ---"Inflation of paraphyses makes a major contribution to cap extension" ---"During fruiting-body maturation, there are no further cell divisions and most changes in the shape of the cap depend on cell expansion (338, 344). Cap expansion correlates temporally and proportionally with stipe elongation, which lifts up the cap for more effective spore dispersal"
from: http://mmbr.asm.org/cgi/content/full/64/2/316#SEC3_4_2 i DID say theoretically. My contention is merely that non-water mass doesn't increase significantly during active sporulation. It seems evident that actual spore production qualifies as a phase of fruitbody development distinct from the development of the fruitbody itself, and is regulated by different cellular processes... What is your reason for saying "not so"? just curious
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superbob57
The Hobbit from the Shire


Registered: 05/21/05
Posts: 3,146
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 7 months, 24 days
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Re: open or closed caps [Re: remediator]
#5392163 - 03/12/06 02:44 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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so whats the final result harvest when fully mature after spores deposite.. or when the veil is beggining to tear away from the cap... Closed or Open which weigh more....
-------------------- If I run full blast, I'll never get tired and If I slow down I get stuck, so I opened my mind and let the wild things in and there not going away but getting stronger, day by day, I will find the source of all things it's only a matter of time and I will be one with the universe once again my friends...I will never find the end but the start of a new begining...-J.R.S.A Man Of Experiences ...IV 4-aco-DMT "Where Fools Rush In, and Angels Fear To Tread..." NN-DMT Pure Magic Wizard Dust! folio]http://www.redbubble.com/people/khaotehk/portfolio[/url] https://youtu.be/C1_YHJDRgqE
   I miss you, I love you my Angel Aimee Renee Orme March 14th 2020. Always and Forever will are Love will go on, Forever & Always are Etched on my Heart. ❤
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Phalloides99
Mushroom failure


Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 20
Loc: Wisconsin
Last seen: 15 years, 3 days
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Hey guys, I got my first primordia ever three days ago. Now the biggest one is about two inches long. However, some of the little ones are growing really weirdly. A couple seem to have already broken their veils but they're only about half an inch long. Also, some of the others are growing like a ball, not a pillar like normal mushrooms. My fruiting chamber has clear sides and an opaque lid so I have to shine light in rom the sides, and I rotate the chamber daily. Could this be causing the crazy growth? and if so, will my mushrooms still be ok?
-------------------- ~~~^~~~@
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agar
old hand


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: open or closed caps [Re: remediator]
#5392240 - 03/12/06 03:11 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Mature P. Cubensis spores are ejected from gills via the force created by a "Buller?s drop". Which is explained in detail RIGHT HERE:
The total weight of those spores from a single large cap is about 1/20th of a gram.
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