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ACN45
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President Bush
#5382086 - 03/09/06 04:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I am constantly having people yell at me for criticizing President Bush but these last couple of days I have been asking myself, "what has he done well, ever?" I can name countless ways he has fucked up this country and ruined its reputation starting with katrina, his supreme court noms, IRAQ, fiscal spending, i mean the list goes on and on. So, please anyone, tell me what he has done well.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5382122 - 03/09/06 04:48 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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long ago he cut taxes.
im sure you consider that a bad thing though.
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unbeliever
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5382126 - 03/09/06 04:49 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I dislike Bush as much as the next liberal type person. But he's not entirely a screw up.
Despite the campaign promises and the pressure from the religious right, he still has not made the smallest effort to enact a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. I find that somewhat heartening. I suspect that he's not quite as batshit insane and close-minded as some of the people who voted him into office are.
The reasons and international politicking done in regards to Afghanistan are/were something I supported. The follow-through leaves a great deal to be desired however.
He's gotten better at public speaking. A minor but commendable personal achievement.
That's all I've got right now.
-------------------- Happiness is a warm gun...
Edited by unbeliever (03/09/06 04:49 PM)
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Redstorm
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5382135 - 03/09/06 04:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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What has been so bad about his Supreme Court nominations? They legalized the usage of Ayahuasca (sp?) tea for the UDV church. That looks like a positive move to me.
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ACN45
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Re: President Bush [Re: unbeliever]
#5382140 - 03/09/06 04:53 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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the international politicking he did in regards to Afghanistan had more to do with the fact tha he needed those American troops in Iraq. He had no choice but to beg for a multinational force to try and stabilize afghanistan because his army was spread so thin.
Who did he cut those taxes for DieCommie? It was the rich people, my family sure did not benefit from those tax cuts. Also, yes i do think it is bad to have tax cuts in a time of such great fiscal spending.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5382151 - 03/09/06 04:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well, I make under 10,000 a year and I benefited from it. I got a check in the mail. Dont know where your family's went...
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RandalFlagg
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5382246 - 03/09/06 05:24 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ACN45 said: I am constantly having people yell at me for criticizing President Bush
Really? I hear nothing but criticism of Bush. His supporters are few and far between from what I have seen in my daily life.
Quote:
ACN45 said: but these last couple of days I have been asking myself, "what has he done well, ever?" I can name countless ways he has fucked up this country and ruined its reputation starting with katrina
I blame local (New Orleans) and state (Louisiana) officials more than federal officials when it comes to Katrina. FEMA definately didn't move fast, but I think that wasn't really Bush's fault.
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ACN45 said: his supreme court noms
Roberts seems pretty level-headed in my opinion.
Quote:
ACN45 said: IRAQ
I agree.
Quote:
ACN45 said: fiscal spending
I agree.
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ACN45 said: i mean the list goes on and on. So, please anyone, tell me what he has done well.
He did draw attention to the fact that Social Security is fucked. I didn't like his proposed plan, but at least he started some discussion about the glaring fiscal problems of Social Security. Hm....that's his only positive action that I can think of actually.
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ACN45
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I live in Virginia near army bases and you would not believe some of the bullshit that comes out of people near me. In school if i ever started debates i would serioulsy become outnumbered by the jesus loving war mongering folk that i live near. It really is quite amazing that he has supporters.
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wilshire
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5382692 - 03/09/06 07:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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So, please anyone, tell me what he has done well.
he kept john kerry out of the presidency.
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ACN45
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Re: President Bush [Re: wilshire]
#5382928 - 03/09/06 08:24 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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how could kerry have run this country any worse?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5382951 - 03/09/06 08:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Could you explain to me what is so bad about his SC nominations?
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Phred
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5383002 - 03/09/06 08:49 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Bush has done some things with which I vigorously disagree. He's also done some things with which I agree. I recently posted in a different thread things I disagreed with.
Here are some things I agree with --
-- pushing through tax cuts -- trying to reform Social Security -- his foreign policy -- His Supreme Court appointees so far (although he pretty much stepped on his dick with the Harriet Myers fiasco). Let's hope he gets to appoint at least one more. Two more would be even better. -- appointing John Bolton to the UN -- appointing Condi Rice as SecState
Phred
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: President Bush [Re: Phred]
#5383019 - 03/09/06 08:56 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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oh yea John Bolton, that was a good one. If i remember correctly he slipped him through at an opportune time. Havent heard much about Bolton now that he is there though... I wonder what he is doing/has done.
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ACN45
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Re: President Bush [Re: Phred]
#5383105 - 03/09/06 09:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said: Bush has done some things with which I vigorously disagree. He's also done some things with which I agree. I recently posted in a different thread things I disagreed with.
Here are some things I agree with --
-- pushing through tax cuts -- trying to reform Social Security -- his foreign policy -- His Supreme Court appointees so far (although he pretty much stepped on his dick with the Harriet Myers fiasco). Let's hope he gets to appoint at least one more. Two more would be even better. -- appointing John Bolton to the UN -- appointing Condi Rice as SecState
Phred
How is pushing tax cuts during a war and increased fiscal spending a good idea? Also you say he "trying to reform social security" what good is trying? Bush also tried to "liberate" iraq and look what a cluster fuck that is. It might be a good thing that he actually admitted it is a problem unlike past presidents but that is far from doing anything productive. And you like his foreign policy?!?!?!? holy shit what has he done REMOTELY productive with that? and john bolton was just the finish to bushs ass rape of the un. the final thumbing of the nose. and i guess condi rice was alright, but i mean if thats the best you can come up with you prove my point.
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Redstorm
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Re: President Bush [Re: Redstorm]
#5383120 - 03/09/06 09:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: Could you explain to me what is so bad about his SC nominations?
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ACN45
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Re: President Bush [Re: Redstorm]
#5383138 - 03/09/06 09:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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mainly because they are so conservative and I am a liberal. I feel that women should have the right to an abortion, i believe in stem cell research, i believe in many lioberal things that a conservative supreme court will take away.
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Redstorm
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5383145 - 03/09/06 09:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Have they ruled on any of those things yet?
They ruled on a minority religion's right to use a scheduled drug. That isn't quite a "conservative" thing to do.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5383147 - 03/09/06 09:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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is there a specific example of a ruling that goes against your liberal beliefs?
edit-damm, godizilla beat me too it
Edited by Qubit (03/09/06 09:38 PM)
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bukkake


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Re: President Bush [Re: Redstorm]
#5383154 - 03/09/06 09:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Also you say he "trying to reform social security" what good is trying?
Bush made a push to have it privatized. Capitalists want everything privatized. Eighty year olds can starve to death or get a job as far as King George is concerned.
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Redstorm
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Re: President Bush [Re: bukkake]
#5383158 - 03/09/06 09:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Actually, under his plan for reform, those who are retired would continue with SS without a change.
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ACN45
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Re: President Bush [Re: Redstorm]
#5383188 - 03/09/06 09:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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yes you are right there has not been a ruling yet that has affected me but given their past histories and political affiliation when the time comes for that ruling there isnt much doubt how it will play out. also you keep referring to the church down in texas that is able to drink some psychedelic drug. i think this is cool but i also wonder how much the fact that the church was affiliated with christianity had to do with the ruling.
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Phred
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5383210 - 03/09/06 09:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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ACN45 writes:
Quote:
How is pushing tax cuts during a war and increased fiscal spending a good idea?
It was good for two reasons --
-- it stimulated the economy, so everyone won. -- it increased tax revenue to the government.
Quote:
Also you say he "trying to reform social security" what good is trying?
A President does not have the power to pass the necessary legislation. All he can do is try to convince Congress to pass the legislation. Congress (unsurprisingly) wouldn't co-operate, but I have to approve of Bush giving it a shot.
Quote:
And you like his foreign policy?!?!?!?
Sure do. What's not to like?
Quote:
and john bolton was just the finish to bushs ass rape of the un.
I would have liked it even more if Bush had withdrawn the US from the UN, cut off all funding to the UN, and given them eighteen months to relocate UN headquarters to some other country, but realistically I have to admit it would have been pretty tough to pull that off. So I have to settle instead for him appointing a straight-shooter as UN ambassador rather than the usual feckless politically correct lickspittles who populate that organization. Hey... it's a start.
Phred
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ACN45
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Re: President Bush [Re: Phred]
#5383216 - 03/09/06 10:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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yes i agree the un is just a sham and it is pretty pointless because evryone knows we are the un. But you say what is so bad about his foreign policy? what isnt bad about his foreign policy? it is hipocritical, drains our resources, and more generally just sucks. what is so good about his foreign policy?
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RandalFlagg
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Re: President Bush [Re: bukkake]
#5384452 - 03/10/06 05:06 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
bukkake said:
Quote:
Also you say he "trying to reform social security" what good is trying?
Bush made a push to have it privatized. Capitalists want everything privatized. Eighty year olds can starve to death or get a job as far as King George is concerned.
His plan called for only partial privatization. Also, all people above a certain age would have retained full benefits. He didn't propose reform in an effort to make "80 year olds starve". He proposed reform because the fiscal future of Social Security is going to be a huge mess (there will be too many retired people and not enough people paying into the system).
If things stay as they are, my generation is going to get screwed by Social Security.
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Rogues_Pierre
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Look up "qualified dividends".
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bukkake


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It would have eventually dismantled social security entirely with his ludicrous "private accounts" idea. The system already is in a crisis, as is health care. And he, they, are working to cut funds, not improve it or reform it for the better.
Quote:
If things stay as they are, my generation is going to get screwed by Social Security.
Our ages are not that far off. We can always sell our Percocets and Vicodins when we hit our 70s as our current seniors do just to keep their heads above water. That is if they don't completely fuck Medicaid over too.
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Phred
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Re: President Bush [Re: bukkake]
#5389095 - 03/11/06 12:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
We can always sell our Percocets and Vicodins when we hit our 70s as our current seniors do just to keep their heads above water.
Or you could do what any rational person would do and start saving for your retirement.
Phred
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bukkake


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Re: President Bush [Re: Phred]
#5389104 - 03/11/06 12:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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And in the event of in the midst of the consumerist capitalist cesspool that is currently America that they do not, then? Throw them to the wolves?
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unbeliever
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Re: President Bush [Re: Phred]
#5389152 - 03/11/06 01:06 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said:
Quote:
We can always sell our Percocets and Vicodins when we hit our 70s as our current seniors do just to keep their heads above water.
Or you could do what any rational person would do and start saving for your retirement.
Phred
You do realize how expensive it can get to be old? Especially with the way medical care and general health insurance are structured in this country.
Though I agree, savings is a very very good idea. It's nice checking your investments and seeing your money make money.
-------------------- Happiness is a warm gun...
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Redstorm
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Re: President Bush [Re: bukkake]
#5389175 - 03/11/06 01:12 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Why should I have to pay for someone's retirement who was too foolish to save for retirement?
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bukkake


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Re: President Bush [Re: Redstorm]
#5389183 - 03/11/06 01:16 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I agree with you, actually. Ignorance, foolishness, naivety, etc. However, taking this account, what of them, then?
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RandalFlagg
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Re: President Bush [Re: bukkake]
#5389226 - 03/11/06 01:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
bukkake said: The system already is in a crisis
Thank goodness you recognize that.
Quote:
bukkake said: And he, they, are working to cut funds, not improve it or reform it for the better.
Of course he was looking to cut benefits. He was doing this because the government can't afford to pay out what is currently promised. I applaud the government any time it makes it so that I get to keep more of my money and they try to offer me less services.
Quote:
bukkake said: Our ages are not that far off. We can always sell our Percocets and Vicodins when we hit our 70s as our current seniors do just to keep their heads above water. That is if they don't completely fuck Medicaid over too.
I think you are referring to Medicare. Medicare is a program which pays for health care for old people. Medicaid is a program that pays for health care for poor people.
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Redstorm
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Re: President Bush [Re: bukkake]
#5389230 - 03/11/06 01:31 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I honestly don't know.
This is one area where the left comes out of the woodwork for me. I would love to say let their relatives or family take care of them, but that is not always feasible.
I thought the SS reform was a good plan, honestly, b/c it allowed a person to either invest a portion of their retirement funds in more high-yield investments than Treasury Bonds. For those who are unknowledgable (or lazy), they could receive the SS checks just as they usually would. The difference is, they would receive less since they are investing in lower-yield bonds.
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RandalFlagg
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Re: President Bush [Re: Redstorm]
#5389238 - 03/11/06 01:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Bush's plan called for borrowing a shitload more money and getting us even further into debt. That's why I didn't like it.
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ACN45
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5389263 - 03/11/06 01:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ACN45 said: yes i agree the un is just a sham and it is pretty pointless because evryone knows we are the un. But you say what is so bad about his foreign policy? what isnt bad about his foreign policy? it is hipocritical, drains our resources, and more generally just sucks. what is so good about his foreign policy?
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Konnrade
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5389320 - 03/11/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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When I rebuke people who complain about Bush, I'm usually not concerned with the action but with the reasons for it.
Firstly, a LOT of people only criticise Bush because it's a popular thing to do. They hate the president very vocally when there are people to hear them hating him. We've allready heard every potential criticism of him. And we've heard it at least once a week from a variety of people who are trying to fit in by making criticisms they probably don't understand. Because these criticisms are so easy to just repeat, it's hard to tell who is being constructive and who is just some moron who got on the "I hate Bush too!" bandwagon for some reason. So, not only is the discussion tired, but we don't like having to figure out if it's intelligent or if it's parroting.
Secondly, many of the complainers are talking about specific issues, but are doing so because of some sort of partisan problem. You sound like you have some nasty partisan prejudices that are preventing a more reasonable viewpoint. You should never be concerned with "liberal" or "conservative". Those are just absolutes that are used to try and get you to behave the way you are now, thinking that either one or the other is right. If anyone is displaying prejudice based on "liberal" or "conservative", it's pretty reasonable to assume that they aren't going to be the most logical about things, and that they're going to be thinking about things the wrong way.
Thirdly, it's entirely too easy to focus wholly on the bad and act as though the issues you think of are the sole and defining characteristics of the president. In all fairness, while Bush isn't a great president, he's done a lot less badly than he easily could have. There have been far more incompetent presidents, even if you just look at the recent century. People will get entirely caught up in the criticism and that's all they will think about, and it will become dogmatic with them. Even if an argument is presented against it, they will just repeat themselves as if their opinions are some sort of unyielding scientific fact that cannot be wrong. That is because they have oversimplified their opinions and perception of the matter and, as a result, broken away from analysis and into pure dogma.
Fourthly, a lot of people don't ever actually do anything OTHER than complain. They don't have any ideas about how things could be better, they just think of how much they suck. These people aren't useful. They just tell people the things they allready know and think they're accomplishing something. Complaining about common knowledge issues isn't going to acheive anything other than hurting public morale and making people feel pessimistic. A constructive discussion a president's performance would give examples of how things could be done better, as well as discussing the ways that we as citizens could try and make things better. Most arguments never do that. They just wind up being a group of people who come together and share their complaining with each other, and sometimes argue about whose complaints are more right than the other's.
Overall, it's fair to say that most criticism of bush, or any politician for that matter, is just utter shit. So, we don't like to hear it and we can reasonably assume that most of it is of positively zero use. We like to criticise the motives for it, because in doing so we will often show that it's a worthless string of complaining. We're so jaded by the utter crap that we've gotten used to, that we really don't respond well to any of the criticisms, even on the rare occasion that a set of criticism is actually a good and constructive one.
I'm not saying it's right, but it makes sense and it's understandable.
--------------------
I find your lack of faith disturbing
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ACN45
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Re: President Bush [Re: Konnrade]
#5389449 - 03/11/06 03:01 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Your post is very confusing to me. You make all of these broad statements which I assume you said in order to prove your point that I am against Bush because I am on the bandwagon. I asked the original question to try and see if I actually was missing anything that Bush has done well. I still have not gotten a decent answer except from Phred but most of those points I argued, not "complained." Isnt that what this is about? Arguing and trying to find middle ground? You ended your post with "I'm not saying it's right, but it makes sense and it's understandable." What the fuck are you talking about? What are you saying isnt right? What is the "it" The point you just tried to make? It seems like you just tried to sound very philosophical. So what exactly are you trying to say? My originial post to me seems to go against EVERYTHING you just said. I am actually trying to find reasons for liking Bush, not "complaining" like you so arrogantly described it as.
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BrAiN
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5389484 - 03/11/06 03:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ACN45 said: how could kerry have run this country any worse?
Kerry was a lying opportunist. I mean.. who the fuck holds a rally with thousands of vietnam vets throwing away their awards and medals and keeps his and then sleeps in a million dollar apt while the "brothers" he organized for the march sleep on the grass and streets.
Kerry is a democrat, Bush a republican.
Democrats give rogue nations the ability to develop nuclear weapons. Republicans give them the reason to use those weapons. They're both fucked up. Democrats ignore problems and republicans create their own. They're both guilty of fucking things up and Kerry is a lying sack of shit that would have fed the war machine just as much as Bush. He's a part of the same rich ass upper class too. Kerry.. Hillary.. they're all useless sacks of shit. ALl the democrats do is bitch and whine and act holier than thou but I haven't seen Hillary do a damn thing for this country.
VOTE third party's people... we're fucked with either democrats or republicans... Green, Independent, Libertarian... whatever.. just DONT vote democrat or republican. They're all evil.
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ACN45
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Re: President Bush [Re: BrAiN]
#5389491 - 03/11/06 03:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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ill garee that they are both horrible which proves my point that kerry might have done a shitty job at presidnecy but could NOT have done a worse job than bush.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5389499 - 03/11/06 03:15 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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that is just flatly impossible to know
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BrAiN
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Re: President Bush [Re: DieCommie]
#5389512 - 03/11/06 03:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: that is just flatly impossible to know
Agreed. He showed during his first run as president that he was a lying hypocritical sack of shit. And that was JUST the race... That proves to me that he might have done an even worse job.
I dunno... this whole Iran thing.. if they ever try anything I hate to say it, but I'd feel safer with Bush as president if it happens than if Kerry were president. Can't blame either one of them for Iran's hatred of the U.S.. That was mostly Reagan's fault. Then again... it's no coincidence they release those hostages they day before he took office. Reagan would have beat their asses.
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Redstorm
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5389971 - 03/11/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ACN45 said: ill garee that they are both horrible which proves my point that kerry might have done a shitty job at presidnecy but could NOT have done a worse job than bush.
Pure speculation, just as samying Bush's nominees were bad was speculation.
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Konnrade
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5390023 - 03/11/06 06:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ACN45 said: Your post is very confusing to me. You make all of these broad statements which I assume you said in order to prove your point that I am against Bush because I am on the bandwagon. I asked the original question to try and see if I actually was missing anything that Bush has done well. I still have not gotten a decent answer except from Phred but most of those points I argued, not "complained." Isnt that what this is about? Arguing and trying to find middle ground? You ended your post with "I'm not saying it's right, but it makes sense and it's understandable." What the fuck are you talking about? What are you saying isnt right? What is the "it" The point you just tried to make? It seems like you just tried to sound very philosophical. So what exactly are you trying to say? My originial post to me seems to go against EVERYTHING you just said. I am actually trying to find reasons for liking Bush, not "complaining" like you so arrogantly described it as.
I'm not referring to you or any one person in general. Nothing in my post would insinuate that. I'm just giving a broad observations of what appears to be true of people.
Think of it as social psychology.
To sum it up simply I'm trying to explain why people respond so negatively to hearing people criticising president Bush.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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lysergicide
Aurora Borealis


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Re: President Bush [Re: Konnrade]
#5390050 - 03/11/06 06:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Don't respect anything that resolves to violence or hate in order to solve problems.
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: President Bush [Re: BrAiN]
#5390333 - 03/11/06 08:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think Bush has done a tremendous job.
Of taking our freedoms away. Thereby letting the terrorists win.
And accomplishing it with nary a whimper from the American sheeple.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: President Bush [Re: zorbman]
#5390618 - 03/11/06 11:01 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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What freedom, specifically, has been taken away from you?
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daimyo
Monticello

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Re: President Bush [Re: DieCommie]
#5390696 - 03/11/06 11:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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UrineVanderslope
Stranger

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 29
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Re: President Bush [Re: Konnrade]
#5391506 - 03/12/06 10:23 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konnrade said: When I rebuke people who complain about Bush, I'm usually not concerned with the action but with the reasons for it.
Firstly, a LOT of people only criticise Bush because it's a popular thing to do. They hate the president very vocally when there are people to hear them hating him. We've allready heard every potential criticism of him. And we've heard it at least once a week from a variety of people who are trying to fit in by making criticisms they probably don't understand. Because these criticisms are so easy to just repeat, it's hard to tell who is being constructive and who is just some moron who got on the "I hate Bush too!" bandwagon for some reason. So, not only is the discussion tired, but we don't like having to figure out if it's intelligent or if it's parroting.
Secondly, many of the complainers are talking about specific issues, but are doing so because of some sort of partisan problem. You sound like you have some nasty partisan prejudices that are preventing a more reasonable viewpoint. You should never be concerned with "liberal" or "conservative". Those are just absolutes that are used to try and get you to behave the way you are now, thinking that either one or the other is right. If anyone is displaying prejudice based on "liberal" or "conservative", it's pretty reasonable to assume that they aren't going to be the most logical about things, and that they're going to be thinking about things the wrong way.
Thirdly, it's entirely too easy to focus wholly on the bad and act as though the issues you think of are the sole and defining characteristics of the president. In all fairness, while Bush isn't a great president, he's done a lot less badly than he easily could have. There have been far more incompetent presidents, even if you just look at the recent century. People will get entirely caught up in the criticism and that's all they will think about, and it will become dogmatic with them. Even if an argument is presented against it, they will just repeat themselves as if their opinions are some sort of unyielding scientific fact that cannot be wrong. That is because they have oversimplified their opinions and perception of the matter and, as a result, broken away from analysis and into pure dogma.
Fourthly, a lot of people don't ever actually do anything OTHER than complain. They don't have any ideas about how things could be better, they just think of how much they suck. These people aren't useful. They just tell people the things they allready know and think they're accomplishing something. Complaining about common knowledge issues isn't going to acheive anything other than hurting public morale and making people feel pessimistic. A constructive discussion a president's performance would give examples of how things could be done better, as well as discussing the ways that we as citizens could try and make things better. Most arguments never do that. They just wind up being a group of people who come together and share their complaining with each other, and sometimes argue about whose complaints are more right than the other's.
Overall, it's fair to say that most criticism of bush, or any politician for that matter, is just utter shit. So, we don't like to hear it and we can reasonably assume that most of it is of positively zero use. We like to criticise the motives for it, because in doing so we will often show that it's a worthless string of complaining. We're so jaded by the utter crap that we've gotten used to, that we really don't respond well to any of the criticisms, even on the rare occasion that a set of criticism is actually a good and constructive one.
I'm not saying it's right, but it makes sense and it's understandable.
Its amazing that you still have all of your shrooms after saying this.
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UrineVanderslope
Stranger

Registered: 03/12/06
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Its obvious that hating Bush shows some sort of psychopathological paranoia, either from being confined to a madrassa most of your life or using too many drugs.
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UrineVanderslope
Stranger

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 29
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Re: President Bush [Re: DieCommie]
#5391535 - 03/12/06 10:37 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: What freedom, specifically, has been taken away from you?
I'd like to see the answer to this, too.
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Edited by UrineVanderslope (03/12/06 10:39 AM)
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mack_tasticlies
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5391567 - 03/12/06 10:52 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ACN45 said: mainly because they are so conservative and I am a liberal. I feel that women should have the right to an abortion, i believe in stem cell research, i believe in many lioberal things that a conservative supreme court will take away.
Women have the right ot an abortion. There are even laws protecting women's rights to an abortion.
"Recently signed into law, FACE is a federal statute (18 U.S.C. ?248) that provides criminal and civil sanctions for obstructing or interfearing with a woman's access to abortion. It has sustained challenges on 1st Amendment grounds."
http://members.aol.com/abtrbng/index.htm
you don't even know your own shit.
you just like btiching about things you really know very litle about.
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

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I wish there was a bandwagon smiley.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
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ACN45
Stranger
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Quote:
mack_tasticlies said:
Quote:
ACN45 said: mainly because they are so conservative and I am a liberal. I feel that women should have the right to an abortion, i believe in stem cell research, i believe in many lioberal things that a conservative supreme court will take away.
Women have the right ot an abortion. There are even laws protecting women's rights to an abortion.
"Recently signed into law, FACE is a federal statute (18 U.S.C. ?248) that provides criminal and civil sanctions for obstructing or interfearing with a woman's access to abortion. It has sustained challenges on 1st Amendment grounds."
http://members.aol.com/abtrbng/index.htm
you don't even know your own shit.
you just like btiching about things you really know very litle about.
jesus christ, i really cannot stand cheerypickers. i think it is a dirty and cheap way to try and prove your point by taking such a narrow scope of what this debate is about. not only did you cheerypick but you had the audacity to take a cheap shot at me. When did i say that women do not have a right to an abortion? I have only speculated that their right would be taken away from them by the supreme court WHEN they vote on the issue. why dont you get your shit together before you make an arrogant post next time or do us all a favor and shut up so we wont have to waste our time reading your simple minded bullshit. http://www.lifenews.com/nat851.html http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5331012/page/4/fpart/1/vc/1
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ACN45
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5392101 - 03/12/06 02:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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i wish there was a dumbass smiley
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5392188 - 03/12/06 02:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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There won't be a ruling on the abortion issue. I am pretty sure of that.
I got the smiley you were looking for, though. --->
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


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Re: President Bush [Re: BrAiN]
#5392309 - 03/12/06 03:36 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
geokills_sucks said:
Quote:
ACN45 said: how could kerry have run this country any worse?
Kerry was a lying opportunist.
Kerry is a lying sack of shit that would have fed the war machine just as much as Bush.
I've heard a lot of attacks on Kerry, but never really heard him referred to as a liar, especially in the face of an opponent whose entire rhetoric is based on misleading people. Can you name some of Kerry's lies?
I agree with you about the war machine part...sort of. I don't believe the democrats would have pushed the war in Iraq the same way the republicans did. Honestly I don't think I will ever forgive Bush for getting us into this mess. This war was not neccesary.
But that wasn't an issue in 2004, because we were already there. Kerry wouldn't have done any better of a job in getting us out of Iraq, because he would have met the same problems we are facing today (i.e. victory may not be possible). And yeah the democrats would have done the same things that Bush has done in the last couple of years to try and win the war. It would take a radically different third party to make the withdrawal maneuver.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


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Re: President Bush [Re: Redstorm]
#5392313 - 03/12/06 03:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: There won't be a ruling on the abortion issue. I am pretty sure of that.
Why so certain? I'm not disagreeing, I'm curious.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
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Some of the more conservative judges believe it should not be ruled on since abortion has become so engrained in society. To overturn Roe would create quite a mess.
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
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gluke_bastid writes:
Quote:
I've heard a lot of attacks on Kerry, but never really heard him referred to as a liar, especially in the face of an opponent whose entire rhetoric is based on misleading people. Can you name some of Kerry's lies?
I guess you weren't following the 2004 election campaigns really closely. Kerry was shown to be a liar on several occasions, specifically regarding his claims of what he did (and didn't do) in Viet Nam. He (or in some cases his campaign manager) actually even had to publicly admit to some of the more outrageous lies.
Then of course, there was his lying promise to release his military records to the public. We're well into our second year of waiting for that to happen. I for one am not holding my breath on that.
Phred
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: President Bush [Re: Phred]
#5392350 - 03/12/06 03:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Kerry's imaginary heroic actions on that Christmas Eve in '68 were of great service to his country and they are forever seared - seared into my memory.
Edited by RandalFlagg (03/12/06 03:52 PM)
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: President Bush [Re: Phred]
#5392358 - 03/12/06 03:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm not aware that the Swift Boaters were correct. There is testimony from many people that what he said he received his medals for was not a lie.
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Phred
Fred's son


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Re: President Bush [Re: Redstorm]
#5392378 - 03/12/06 04:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The Swift Boaters were correct. See many many posts from before the election showing this.
I don't say that every Purple Heart he received was unjustified (although others do), just that the first one wasn't. And it wasn't. But that's neither here nor there, since a whole whap of soldiers also received Purple Hearts which probably weren't justified. Kerry wasn't alone in that scam.
But he did knowingly lie about "atrocities" he says he saw his fellow soldiers commit (see "Winter Soldiers" scandal), he lied about his "Christmas in Cambodia" (as his handlers eventually shamefacedly admitted), he lied about being present at the signing of the Conditional Cease Fire of the Gulf War in 1991, he lied about running in the Boston Marathon, he lied about throwing his medals over the White House fence, and he lied when he promised to release his military service records to the public. Even if you choose not to believe every charge brought by the Swift Boat Veterans, you can't dispute the other lies he's been caught at.
Then of course there's his sworn testimony before the senate that he personally committed war crimes. He's either lying about that, too, or he's a self-admitted war criminal. I leave it to you to decide which is worse.
Phred
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UrineVanderslope
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Registered: 03/12/06
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bukkake


Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Quote:
Thank goodness you recognize that.
Unfortunately, our "leaders" do not. Well, they do. But the pandering of the lobbying pharmaceutical industry is far too great. Money in capitalism comes first, the needs of human beings is second.
Quote:
I think you are referring to Medicare. Medicare is a program which pays for health care for old people. Medicaid is a program that pays for health care for poor people.
There is a fascinating reason I jumbled the two together at that time.
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mack_tasticlies
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5394980 - 03/13/06 11:48 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ACN45 said: i wish there was a dumbass smiley
who the fuck are you calling a dumbass?
cheery picking?
The point I was trying to make was that while you argue this and that you don't even have your facts stright, thus complentely undermining your argument, removing all validity and significance. Understand?
You rarely ever say anything worth note, bitching and hatin on bush because the army kids around your way won't like you. you rebel you. 
grow up. get your facts inorder and post something that is worth a damn.
quit living your life according to others.
remember there is no diiference bewtween a non corformist and a conformist.
have a good day.
Edited by mack_tasticlies (03/13/06 11:54 AM)
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

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ACN, I would write to your arguements if they hadn't been so thourourghly dismantled by other posters here.
Superme court nominations, dismantled.
Fiscal matters, dismantled
abortion issues, dismantled.
You were thourpughly beaten here, leaving your wanting soul exposed for all with eyes to see.
You hate bush because the army kids ostracize you.
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5395058 - 03/13/06 12:16 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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How is pushing tax cuts during a war and increased fiscal spending a good idea? Also you say he "trying to reform social security" what good is trying? Bush also tried to "liberate" iraq and look what a cluster fuck that is. It might be a good thing that he actually admitted it is a problem unlike past presidents but that is far from doing anything productive. And you like his foreign policy?!?!?!? holy shit what has he done REMOTELY productive with that? and john bolton was just the finish to bushs ass rape of the un. the final thumbing of the nose. and i guess condi rice was alright, but I mean if thats the best you can come up with you prove my point. -ACN
The things he has done remotely productive with foreign policy is ensuring our access to oil in the decades to come. If you can't see the value of that then you should go home an read some history. Wanna see a staving America, lets go without oil.
Iraq is far from a cluster fuck. This war could last five times as long as Vietnam and the casualties would barely scrape by the 50,000 or so that died in that heinous war.
The SC's are so far making some pretty progressive rulings, certainly far from the jesus loving war mongering right would appreciate. Drugs in church OK. Yeah, you got them there, with your liberal standpoint.
We created the UN, it serves our purposes, I can't for the life of me see what is so wrong with a puppet government we can control.
How the fuck do you get anything done without trying. Social Security reform, someone has to get the ball rolling, it wont just happen on its own, bodies at rest tend to stay at rest unless an outside force is put upon bodies. Shit doesn't just happen.
by the way bitch, I am far from simple minded, I move through levels you can only imagine at. 
I put the bonus in bonus levels.
Have some respect for your superiors, don't ever call me a dumb ass or simpleminded again. If you reread your post not once did I call you a name. I don't need to, you probably beat yourself up everyday in front of the mirror, calling yourself all sorts of names with a verity and severity I can only barely begin to know. I would if I had to walk through life everyday like you.
Peace, biznatch.
Edited by mack_tasticlies (03/13/06 12:22 PM)
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mikeownow
Humungus fungus

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 2,856
Loc: WA,USA
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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I liked it when clinton was president. Everything kicked ass during his term
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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You should cut the name-calling out of you post. You will be disciplined for flaming.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: President Bush [Re: mikeownow]
#5395089 - 03/13/06 12:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mikeownow said: I liked it when clinton was president. Everything kicked ass during his term
Waco?
Brady Bill?
Getting involved in the Balkans?
Oklahoma City bombing?
World Trade Center bombing?
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

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Re: President Bush [Re: mikeownow]
#5395090 - 03/13/06 12:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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let me remind you guys, the majority of the planing to fly planes into the world trade center took place during clinton's reign. He was an aboslute assbag. But he was a pimp.
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ACN45
Stranger
Registered: 11/28/05
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i thought i had made it very obvious that i was calling you a dumbass, but if you need it to be more clear, your a dumbass.
***How is pushing tax cuts during a war and increased fiscal spending a good idea? Also you say he "trying to reform social security" what good is trying? Bush also tried to "liberate" iraq and look what a cluster fuck that is. It might be a good thing that he actually admitted it is a problem unlike past presidents but that is far from doing anything productive. And you like his foreign policy?!?!?!? holy shit what has he done REMOTELY productive with that? and john bolton was just the finish to bushs ass rape of the un. the final thumbing of the nose. and i guess condi rice was alright, but I mean if thats the best you can come up with you prove my point. -ACN
The things he has done remotely productive with foreign policy is ensuring our access to oil in the decades to come. If you can't see the value of that then you should go home an read some history. Wanna see a staving America, lets go without oil.
Iraq is far from a cluster fuck. This war could last five times as long as Vietnam and the casualties would barely scrape by the 50,000 or so that died in that heinous war.
The SC's are so far making some pretty progressive rulings, certainly far from the jesus loving war mongering right would appreciate. Drugs in church OK. Yeah, you got them there, with your liberal standpoint.
We created the UN, it serves our purposes, I can't for the life of me see what is so wrong with a puppet government we can control.
How the fuck do you get anything done without trying. Social Security reform, someone has to get the ball rolling, it wont just happen on its own, bodies at rest tend to stay at rest unless an outside force is put upon bodies. Shit doesn't just happen.
by the way bitch, I am far from simple minded, I move through levels you can only imagine at.
I put the bonus in bonus levels.
Have some respect for your superiors, don't ever call me a dumb ass or simpleminded again. If you reread your post not once did I call you a name. I don't need to, you probably beat yourself up everyday in front of the mirror, calling yourself all sorts of names with a verity and severity I can only barely begin to know. I would if I had to walk through life everyday like you.
Peace, biznatch.***
how has he ensured access to oil in iraq? he is far from securing iraq at all. there is a good chance that we will have to tuck-tail and go home leaving what accomplished? also you say the war could last five times as long as vietnam and barely scrape by the 50,000 mark? so what? are casualties what the win/loss is based off of in war? i guess you think WWII was our greatest defeat. thats what i mean by simpleminded. drugs and church, i got them with my liberal viewpoint? what does that mean? i wasnt even the one who made that point, but i agreed with it, so yet again whats your point? The UN serves its purpose, we controll it? Is that why the UN is in Iraq helping us out? you put the bonus in bonus levels? WOW!!!!i guess that passes for creativity in your simple minded circle of friends. Your dumb enough to say I bitch? Thats so ironic because i just wasted yet more of my time reading your frantic post saying how bad you got me. please, honestly shut up. you have said nothing that added to this at all. and how was i dismantled on any of those issues that you said? im so sick of wasting my time on you. have a nice day.
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA



Registered: 09/13/05
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5395572 - 03/13/06 03:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah... this thread is now a flamefest.
Lame.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

Registered: 02/25/06
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
#5395963 - 03/13/06 05:24 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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How exactly is this country so fucked up?
How exactly is it Bush's faul that the state of LA, shot itself in the foot before and after the hurricane?
You don't see my point about your proclamation of liberalism and bush's surpreme court nominee ruling in favor of drugs in a religious ritual?
Why did you captilize every letter in Iraq?
You think we are going to turn tail run home, only if a pussy ass liberal president gets into office next term.
You guys speak so double tongued, you are all abunch of arrogant quasi erudites living off other peoples money. Except the extremely wealthy ones, who give less to teh poorthan the fundamentalist right.
you guys wanna feed the world with other peoples money. You have no interest in the betterment of society, just the power you can gather to yourselves by enabling idiots. They become depenedent on you, there is a reason that most of liberal votes come from the morons and wel faer recipients. The school teachers and post office workers. The goverment feeds them and liberal government even more.
you wanna taker pwoer away from the people and make everything a federal issue. Fuck the rights of the starte and its people, as if each state deosn't hav its own identity and needs.
You wanna alternative energy but don't wanna build nuke plants cause it may be bad for the enviornment, don't want wind plants cause they are ugly. You guys wanna take money from the people, crreate debt, spend it unwisely on the underserving and place America in peril with irresponsible scared military philosophy.
You prolly didn't even know that though, cause to you being a liberal is about hating bush, not the overall agenda of your own party. The consolidation of power in the Distrcit of Columbia. Thake it away from the people and push us ever closewr down the road to tyranny.
I swear you must be in third grade, resorting to name calling, and not even very clever ones at that.
Edited by mack_tasticlies (03/13/06 05:53 PM)
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