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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: President Bush [Re: DieCommie]
    #5389512 - 03/11/06 03:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
that is just flatly impossible to know




Agreed. He showed during his first run as president that he was a lying hypocritical sack of shit. And that was JUST the race... That proves to me that he might have done an even worse job.

I dunno... this whole Iran thing.. if they ever try anything I hate to say it, but I'd feel safer with Bush as president if it happens than if Kerry were president. Can't blame either one of them for Iran's hatred of the U.S.. That was mostly Reagan's fault. Then again... it's no coincidence they release those hostages they day before he took office. Reagan would have beat their asses.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
    #5389971 - 03/11/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ACN45 said:
ill garee that they are both horrible which proves my point that kerry might have done a shitty job at presidnecy but could NOT have done a worse job than bush.




Pure speculation, just as samying Bush's nominees were bad was speculation.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
    #5390023 - 03/11/06 06:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ACN45 said:
Your post is very confusing to me. You make all of these broad statements which I assume you said in order to prove your point that I am against Bush because I am on the bandwagon. I asked the original question to try and see if I actually was missing anything that Bush has done well. I still have not gotten a decent answer except from Phred but most of those points I argued, not "complained." Isnt that what this is about? Arguing and trying to find middle ground? You ended your post with "I'm not saying it's right, but it makes sense and it's understandable." What the fuck are you talking about? What are you saying isnt right? What is the "it" The point you just tried to make? It seems like you just tried to sound very philosophical. So what exactly are you trying to say? My originial post to me seems to go against EVERYTHING you just said. I am actually trying to find reasons for liking Bush, not "complaining" like you so arrogantly described it as.




I'm not referring to you or any one person in general. Nothing in my post would insinuate that. I'm just giving a broad observations of what appears to be true of people.

Think of it as social psychology.

To sum it up simply I'm trying to explain why people respond so negatively to hearing people criticising president Bush.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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Offlinelysergicide
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Re: President Bush [Re: Konnrade]
    #5390050 - 03/11/06 06:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Don't respect anything that resolves to violence or hate in order to solve problems.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: President Bush [Re: BrAiN]
    #5390333 - 03/11/06 08:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think Bush has done a tremendous job.

Of taking our freedoms away.
Thereby letting the terrorists win.

And accomplishing it with nary a whimper from the American sheeple.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: President Bush [Re: zorbman]
    #5390618 - 03/11/06 11:01 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

What freedom, specifically, has been taken away from you?


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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: President Bush [Re: DieCommie]
    #5390696 - 03/11/06 11:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

:popcorn:


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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InvisibleUrineVanderslope
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Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 29
Re: President Bush [Re: Konnrade]
    #5391506 - 03/12/06 10:23 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
When I rebuke people who complain about Bush, I'm usually not concerned with the action but with the reasons for it.

Firstly, a LOT of people only criticise Bush because it's a popular thing to do. They hate the president very vocally when there are people to hear them hating him. We've allready heard every potential criticism of him. And we've heard it at least once a week from a variety of people who are trying to fit in by making criticisms they probably don't understand. Because these criticisms are so easy to just repeat, it's hard to tell who is being constructive and who is just some moron who got on the "I hate Bush too!" bandwagon for some reason. So, not only is the discussion tired, but we don't like having to figure out if it's intelligent or if it's parroting.

Secondly, many of the complainers are talking about specific issues, but are doing so because of some sort of partisan problem. You sound like you have some nasty partisan prejudices that are preventing a more reasonable viewpoint. You should never be concerned with "liberal" or "conservative". Those are just absolutes that are used to try and get you to behave the way you are now, thinking that either one or the other is right. If anyone is displaying prejudice based on "liberal" or "conservative", it's pretty reasonable to assume that they aren't going to be the most logical about things, and that they're going to be thinking about things the wrong way.

Thirdly, it's entirely too easy to focus wholly on the bad and act as though the issues you think of are the sole and defining characteristics of the president. In all fairness, while Bush isn't a great president, he's done a lot less badly than he easily could have. There have been far more incompetent presidents, even if you just look at the recent century. People will get entirely caught up in the criticism and that's all they will think about, and it will become dogmatic with them. Even if an argument is presented against it, they will just repeat themselves as if their opinions are some sort of unyielding scientific fact that cannot be wrong. That is because they have oversimplified their opinions and perception of the matter and, as a result, broken away from analysis and into pure dogma.

Fourthly, a lot of people don't ever actually do anything OTHER than complain. They don't have any ideas about how things could be better, they just think of how much they suck. These people aren't useful. They just tell people the things they allready know and think they're accomplishing something. Complaining about common knowledge issues isn't going to acheive anything other than hurting public morale and making people feel pessimistic. A constructive discussion a president's performance would give examples of how things could be done better, as well as discussing the ways that we as citizens could try and make things better. Most arguments never do that. They just wind up being a group of people who come together and share their complaining with each other, and sometimes argue about whose complaints are more right than the other's.

Overall, it's fair to say that most criticism of bush, or any politician for that matter, is just utter shit. So, we don't like to hear it and we can reasonably assume that most of it is of positively zero use. We like to criticise the motives for it, because in doing so we will often show that it's a worthless string of complaining. We're so jaded by the utter crap that we've gotten used to, that we really don't respond well to any of the criticisms, even on the rare occasion that a set of criticism is actually a good and constructive one.

I'm not saying it's right, but it makes sense and it's understandable.





Its amazing that you still have all of your shrooms after saying this.


--------------------


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InvisibleUrineVanderslope
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Re: President Bush [Re: UrineVanderslope]
    #5391511 - 03/12/06 10:27 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Its obvious that hating Bush shows some sort of psychopathological paranoia, either from being confined to a madrassa most of your life or using too many drugs.


--------------------


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InvisibleUrineVanderslope
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Re: President Bush [Re: DieCommie]
    #5391535 - 03/12/06 10:37 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
What freedom, specifically, has been taken away from you?




I'd like to see the answer to this, too.


--------------------


Edited by UrineVanderslope (03/12/06 10:39 AM)


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Offlinemack_tasticlies
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
    #5391567 - 03/12/06 10:52 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ACN45 said:
mainly because they are so conservative and I am a liberal. I feel that women should have the right to an abortion, i believe in stem cell research, i believe in many lioberal things that a conservative supreme court will take away.




Women have the right ot an abortion. There are even laws protecting women's rights to an abortion.


"Recently signed into law, FACE is a federal statute (18 U.S.C. ?248) that provides criminal and civil sanctions for obstructing or interfearing with a woman's access to abortion. It has sustained challenges on 1st Amendment grounds."

http://members.aol.com/abtrbng/index.htm

you don't even know your own shit.


you just like btiching about things you really know very litle about.


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Offlinemack_tasticlies
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Re: President Bush [Re: mack_tasticlies]
    #5391573 - 03/12/06 10:55 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I wish there was a bandwagon smiley.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
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Re: President Bush [Re: UrineVanderslope]
    #5391621 - 03/12/06 11:22 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)



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OfflineACN45
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Re: President Bush [Re: mack_tasticlies]
    #5392076 - 03/12/06 02:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mack_tasticlies said:
Quote:

ACN45 said:
mainly because they are so conservative and I am a liberal. I feel that women should have the right to an abortion, i believe in stem cell research, i believe in many lioberal things that a conservative supreme court will take away.




Women have the right ot an abortion. There are even laws protecting women's rights to an abortion.


"Recently signed into law, FACE is a federal statute (18 U.S.C. ?248) that provides criminal and civil sanctions for obstructing or interfearing with a woman's access to abortion. It has sustained challenges on 1st Amendment grounds."

http://members.aol.com/abtrbng/index.htm

you don't even know your own shit.


you just like btiching about things you really know very litle about.




jesus christ, i really cannot stand cheerypickers. i think it is a dirty and cheap way to try and prove your point by taking such a narrow scope of what this debate is about. not only did you cheerypick but you had the audacity to take a cheap shot at me. When did i say that women do not have a right to an abortion? I have only speculated that their right would be taken away from them by the supreme court WHEN they vote on the issue. why dont you get your shit together before you make an arrogant post next time or do us all a favor and shut up so we wont have to waste our time reading your simple minded bullshit.
http://www.lifenews.com/nat851.html
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5331012/page/4/fpart/1/vc/1


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OfflineACN45
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
    #5392101 - 03/12/06 02:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

i wish there was a dumbass smiley


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
    #5392188 - 03/12/06 02:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

There won't be a ruling on the abortion issue. I am pretty sure of that.

I got the smiley you were looking for, though. ---> :flowstone:


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: President Bush [Re: BrAiN]
    #5392309 - 03/12/06 03:36 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

geokills_sucks said:
Quote:

ACN45 said:
how could kerry have run this country any worse?




Kerry was a lying opportunist.

Kerry is a lying sack of shit that would have fed the war machine just as much as Bush.





I've heard a lot of attacks on Kerry, but never really heard him referred to as a liar, especially in the face of an opponent whose entire rhetoric is based on misleading people. Can you name some of Kerry's lies?

I agree with you about the war machine part...sort of. I don't believe the democrats would have pushed the war in Iraq the same way the republicans did. Honestly I don't think I will ever forgive Bush for getting us into this mess. This war was not neccesary.

But that wasn't an issue in 2004, because we were already there. Kerry wouldn't have done any better of a job in getting us out of Iraq, because he would have met the same problems we are facing today (i.e. victory may not be possible). And yeah the democrats would have done the same things that Bush has done in the last couple of years to try and win the war. It would take a radically different third party to make the withdrawal maneuver.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: President Bush [Re: Redstorm]
    #5392313 - 03/12/06 03:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
There won't be a ruling on the abortion issue. I am pretty sure of that.





Why so certain? I'm not disagreeing, I'm curious.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: President Bush [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5392334 - 03/12/06 03:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Some of the more conservative judges believe it should not be ruled on since abortion has become so engrained in society. To overturn Roe would create quite a mess.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: President Bush [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5392341 - 03/12/06 03:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

gluke_bastid writes:

Quote:

I've heard a lot of attacks on Kerry, but never really heard him referred to as a liar, especially in the face of an opponent whose entire rhetoric is based on misleading people. Can you name some of Kerry's lies?




I guess you weren't following the 2004 election campaigns really closely. Kerry was shown to be a liar on several occasions, specifically regarding his claims of what he did (and didn't do) in Viet Nam. He (or in some cases his campaign manager) actually even had to publicly admit to some of the more outrageous lies.

Then of course, there was his lying promise to release his military records to the public. We're well into our second year of waiting for that to happen. I for one am not holding my breath on that.



Phred


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