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OfflineACN45
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Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 160
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: President Bush [Re: Redstorm]
    #5383188 - 03/09/06 09:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

yes you are right there has not been a ruling yet that has affected me but given their past histories and political affiliation when the time comes for that ruling there isnt much doubt how it will play out. also you keep referring to the church down in texas that is able to drink some psychedelic drug. i think this is cool but i also wonder how much the fact that the church was affiliated with christianity had to do with the ruling.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
    #5383210 - 03/09/06 09:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

ACN45 writes:

Quote:

How is pushing tax cuts during a war and increased fiscal spending a good idea?




It was good for two reasons --

-- it stimulated the economy, so everyone won.
-- it increased tax revenue to the government.

Quote:

Also you say he "trying to reform social security" what good is trying?




A President does not have the power to pass the necessary legislation. All he can do is try to convince Congress to pass the legislation. Congress (unsurprisingly) wouldn't co-operate, but I have to approve of Bush giving it a shot.

Quote:

And you like his foreign policy?!?!?!?




Sure do. What's not to like?

Quote:

and john bolton was just the finish to bushs ass rape of the un.




I would have liked it even more if Bush had withdrawn the US from the UN, cut off all funding to the UN, and given them eighteen months to relocate UN headquarters to some other country, but realistically I have to admit it would have been pretty tough to pull that off. So I have to settle instead for him appointing a straight-shooter as UN ambassador rather than the usual feckless politically correct lickspittles who populate that organization. Hey... it's a start.





Phred


--------------------


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OfflineACN45
Stranger
Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 160
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: President Bush [Re: Phred]
    #5383216 - 03/09/06 10:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

yes i agree the un is just a sham and it is pretty pointless because evryone knows we are the un. But you say what is so bad about his foreign policy? what isnt bad about his foreign policy? it is hipocritical, drains our resources, and more generally just sucks. what is so good about his foreign policy?


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: President Bush [Re: bukkake]
    #5384452 - 03/10/06 05:06 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bukkake said:
Quote:

Also you say he "trying to reform social security" what good is trying?



Bush made a push to have it privatized. Capitalists want everything privatized. Eighty year olds can starve to death or get a job as far as King George is concerned.




His plan called for only partial privatization. Also, all people above a certain age would have retained full benefits. He didn't propose reform in an effort to make "80 year olds starve". He proposed reform because the fiscal future of Social Security is going to be a huge mess (there will be too many retired people and not enough people paying into the system).

If things stay as they are, my generation is going to get screwed by Social Security.


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InvisibleRogues_Pierre
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Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 99
Re: President Bush [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5384553 - 03/10/06 06:57 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Look up "qualified dividends".


--------------------


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Invisiblebukkake
Male

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
Re: President Bush [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5389072 - 03/11/06 12:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It would have eventually dismantled social security entirely with his ludicrous "private accounts" idea. The system already is in a crisis, as is health care. And he, they, are working to cut funds, not improve it or reform it for the better.

Quote:

If things stay as they are, my generation is going to get screwed by Social Security.



Our ages are not that far off. We can always sell our Percocets and Vicodins when we hit our 70s as our current seniors do just to keep their heads above water. That is if they don't completely fuck Medicaid over too.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
Re: President Bush [Re: bukkake]
    #5389095 - 03/11/06 12:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

We can always sell our Percocets and Vicodins when we hit our 70s as our current seniors do just to keep their heads above water.




Or you could do what any rational person would do and start saving for your retirement.




Phred


--------------------


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Invisiblebukkake
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Registered: 05/28/05
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Loc: Classified
Re: President Bush [Re: Phred]
    #5389104 - 03/11/06 12:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

And in the event of in the midst of the consumerist capitalist cesspool that is currently America that they do not, then? Throw them to the wolves?


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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: President Bush [Re: Phred]
    #5389152 - 03/11/06 01:06 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

We can always sell our Percocets and Vicodins when we hit our 70s as our current seniors do just to keep their heads above water.




Or you could do what any rational person would do and start saving for your retirement.




Phred




You do realize how expensive it can get to be old? Especially with the way medical care and general health insurance are structured in this country.

Though I agree, savings is a very very good idea. It's nice checking your investments and seeing your money make money. :smile:


--------------------
Happiness is a warm gun...


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: President Bush [Re: bukkake]
    #5389175 - 03/11/06 01:12 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Why should I have to pay for someone's retirement who was too foolish to save for retirement?


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Invisiblebukkake
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Registered: 05/28/05
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Re: President Bush [Re: Redstorm]
    #5389183 - 03/11/06 01:16 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I agree with you, actually. Ignorance, foolishness, naivety, etc. However, taking this account, what of them, then?


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: President Bush [Re: bukkake]
    #5389226 - 03/11/06 01:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bukkake said:
The system already is in a crisis





Thank goodness you recognize that.


Quote:

bukkake said:
And he, they, are working to cut funds, not improve it or reform it for the better.




Of course he was looking to cut benefits. He was doing this because the government can't afford to pay out what is currently promised. I applaud the government any time it makes it so that I get to keep more of my money and they try to offer me less services.


Quote:

bukkake said:
Our ages are not that far off. We can always sell our Percocets and Vicodins when we hit our 70s as our current seniors do just to keep their heads above water. That is if they don't completely fuck Medicaid over too.




I think you are referring to Medicare. Medicare is a program which pays for health care for old people. Medicaid is a program that pays for health care for poor people.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: President Bush [Re: bukkake]
    #5389230 - 03/11/06 01:31 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I honestly don't know.

This is one area where the left comes out of the woodwork for me. I would love to say let their relatives or family take care of them, but that is not always feasible.

I thought the SS reform was a good plan, honestly, b/c it allowed a person to either invest a portion of their retirement funds in more high-yield investments than Treasury Bonds. For those who are unknowledgable (or lazy), they could receive the SS checks just as they usually would. The difference is, they would receive less since they are investing in lower-yield bonds.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: President Bush [Re: Redstorm]
    #5389238 - 03/11/06 01:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Bush's plan called for borrowing a shitload more money and getting us even further into debt. That's why I didn't like it.


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OfflineACN45
Stranger
Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 160
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
    #5389263 - 03/11/06 01:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ACN45 said:
yes i agree the un is just a sham and it is pretty pointless because evryone knows we are the un. But you say what is so bad about his foreign policy? what isnt bad about his foreign policy? it is hipocritical, drains our resources, and more generally just sucks. what is so good about his foreign policy?




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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
    #5389320 - 03/11/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

When I rebuke people who complain about Bush, I'm usually not concerned with the action but with the reasons for it.

Firstly, a LOT of people only criticise Bush because it's a popular thing to do. They hate the president very vocally when there are people to hear them hating him. We've allready heard every potential criticism of him. And we've heard it at least once a week from a variety of people who are trying to fit in by making criticisms they probably don't understand. Because these criticisms are so easy to just repeat, it's hard to tell who is being constructive and who is just some moron who got on the "I hate Bush too!" bandwagon for some reason. So, not only is the discussion tired, but we don't like having to figure out if it's intelligent or if it's parroting.

Secondly, many of the complainers are talking about specific issues, but are doing so because of some sort of partisan problem. You sound like you have some nasty partisan prejudices that are preventing a more reasonable viewpoint. You should never be concerned with "liberal" or "conservative". Those are just absolutes that are used to try and get you to behave the way you are now, thinking that either one or the other is right. If anyone is displaying prejudice based on "liberal" or "conservative", it's pretty reasonable to assume that they aren't going to be the most logical about things, and that they're going to be thinking about things the wrong way.

Thirdly, it's entirely too easy to focus wholly on the bad and act as though the issues you think of are the sole and defining characteristics of the president. In all fairness, while Bush isn't a great president, he's done a lot less badly than he easily could have. There have been far more incompetent presidents, even if you just look at the recent century. People will get entirely caught up in the criticism and that's all they will think about, and it will become dogmatic with them. Even if an argument is presented against it, they will just repeat themselves as if their opinions are some sort of unyielding scientific fact that cannot be wrong. That is because they have oversimplified their opinions and perception of the matter and, as a result, broken away from analysis and into pure dogma.

Fourthly, a lot of people don't ever actually do anything OTHER than complain. They don't have any ideas about how things could be better, they just think of how much they suck. These people aren't useful. They just tell people the things they allready know and think they're accomplishing something. Complaining about common knowledge issues isn't going to acheive anything other than hurting public morale and making people feel pessimistic. A constructive discussion a president's performance would give examples of how things could be done better, as well as discussing the ways that we as citizens could try and make things better. Most arguments never do that. They just wind up being a group of people who come together and share their complaining with each other, and sometimes argue about whose complaints are more right than the other's.

Overall, it's fair to say that most criticism of bush, or any politician for that matter, is just utter shit. So, we don't like to hear it and we can reasonably assume that most of it is of positively zero use. We like to criticise the motives for it, because in doing so we will often show that it's a worthless string of complaining. We're so jaded by the utter crap that we've gotten used to, that we really don't respond well to any of the criticisms, even on the rare occasion that a set of criticism is actually a good and constructive one.

I'm not saying it's right, but it makes sense and it's understandable.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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OfflineACN45
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Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 160
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: President Bush [Re: Konnrade]
    #5389449 - 03/11/06 03:01 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Your post is very confusing to me. You make all of these broad statements which I assume you said in order to prove your point that I am against Bush because I am on the bandwagon. I asked the original question to try and see if I actually was missing anything that Bush has done well. I still have not gotten a decent answer except from Phred but most of those points I argued, not "complained." Isnt that what this is about? Arguing and trying to find middle ground? You ended your post with "I'm not saying it's right, but it makes sense and it's understandable." What the fuck are you talking about? What are you saying isnt right? What is the "it" The point you just tried to make? It seems like you just tried to sound very philosophical. So what exactly are you trying to say? My originial post to me seems to go against EVERYTHING you just said. I am actually trying to find reasons for liking Bush, not "complaining" like you so arrogantly described it as.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Registered: 03/01/01
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Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
    #5389484 - 03/11/06 03:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ACN45 said:
how could kerry have run this country any worse?





Kerry was a lying opportunist. I mean.. who the fuck holds a rally with thousands of vietnam vets throwing away their awards and medals and keeps his and then sleeps in a million dollar apt while the "brothers" he organized for the march sleep on the grass and streets.

Kerry is a democrat, Bush a republican.

Democrats give rogue nations the ability to develop nuclear weapons. Republicans give them the reason to use those weapons. They're both fucked up. Democrats ignore problems and republicans create their own. They're both guilty of fucking things up and Kerry is a lying sack of shit that would have fed the war machine just as much as Bush. He's a part of the same rich ass upper class too. Kerry.. Hillary.. they're all useless sacks of shit. ALl the democrats do is bitch and whine and act holier than thou but I haven't seen Hillary do a damn thing for this country.

VOTE third party's people... we're fucked with either democrats or republicans... Green, Independent, Libertarian... whatever.. just DONT vote democrat or republican. They're all evil.


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OfflineACN45
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Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 160
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: President Bush [Re: BrAiN]
    #5389491 - 03/11/06 03:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

ill garee that they are both horrible which proves my point that kerry might have done a shitty job at presidnecy but could NOT have done a worse job than bush.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: President Bush [Re: ACN45]
    #5389499 - 03/11/06 03:15 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

that is just flatly impossible to know


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