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bemmers1
friend of afriendly farmer
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 179
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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WBS Growth
#5381831 - 03/09/06 03:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hey guys, Well, I have a quick question for anyone out there with WBS experience. I have a lot of experience with other growing techs, but this is my first with WBS...made the switch mostly because it is so much cheaper. I used the same basic tek I used for popcorn for a couple years using oven bags, always worked great with corn but doesn't seem to be working out with the bird seed. My temps are a constant 28 and I have inoculated the bags a couple times, two full syringes in each big bag of wbs (syringes aren't a concern). Nothing is happening. It has been over a week since I lasat inoculated and no growth that I can see. From previous experiences I would assume it contammed and trash it and start again, but I don't see any contams or growth whatsoever. Anybody have similar wbs experiences? My moisture seems ok, but again it is my first time so I'm not really sure. Is there a contam that is predominant with wbs that I may not have experienced with brf or popcorn?
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musher_420
Stranger

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 2,691
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Re: WBS Growth [Re: bemmers1]
#5381911 - 03/09/06 04:04 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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How exactly did you prepair the wbs?
It's dirty stuff that wbs. If your using large bags of it you will need to PC for a good lenth of time. You could also have moisture problems or gas exchange problems. But usually you will see SOME growth. Unless you injected spores into the bag while the seed was still hot....then you killed the spores. Nothing will happen.
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cappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
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2nd complaint of this in a week. I'm using a modified WBS tek, HEAVILY sterilized. I used 1 hour @ 10psi followed by .5 hour @ 15psi.
In my case, it took ~80 hours to see signs of growth. Temps are the same as yours. Do you bags have air filter/exchanges on them? Give one a smell.
-------------------- Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't. ~Cappa.
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bemmers1
friend of afriendly farmer
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 179
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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Re: WBS Growth [Re: cappa]
#5382347 - 03/09/06 05:49 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I sterilized for an hour and 45 at 15 psi...figured I needed to go long because of the bag size. The wbs cooled overnight so I know that wasn't the issue, especially since I re-inoculated it after a week with naother full syringe. I like using the bags because I find it easier to shake, thus speeding up mycelial growth. Works well with popcorn, maybe I'll stick to what I know. It does smell off to me, but again, I don't really know what it is supposed to smell like so I have no real comparison.
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bemmers1
friend of afriendly farmer
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 179
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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Re: WBS Growth [Re: bemmers1]
#5382352 - 03/09/06 05:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Oh ya....I inoculated the bag and use medical tape doubled up as a filter. Agian, worked previously but any ideas?
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skeletor
the dude
Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 1,235
Loc: heaven on earth
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: WBS Growth [Re: bemmers1]
#5382751 - 03/09/06 07:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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maybe you bought wbs with fugacide?
-------------------- im sorry about your mother. She was a terrible attrative woman. Get back to nature; hunting burgers and gathering fries.
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psillyrabit
President

Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 104
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
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Re: WBS Growth [Re: skeletor]
#5384296 - 03/10/06 03:04 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Im havin the same damn problem. Bought a bag of Kaytee bird seed, no fungacides or anything, and have very little, SLOWW growth in two out of twelve jars, the rest have done nothing, this was two weeks ago.
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bemmers1
friend of afriendly farmer
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 179
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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I did two bags previously with wbs. I thought I added too much water because a lot of the seed had expanded/exploded, but I did have decent growth until the contams set in Should the seed be this wet perhaps?!
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thenewguy05
The Mushroom Man


Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 2,123
Loc: My Underground Layer
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Re: WBS Growth [Re: bemmers1]
#5385017 - 03/10/06 10:21 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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exploded millet and milo are generally high in nutes so there is where you contams set in.
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cappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
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In my experience the exploded grains are the first areas to be colonized. I think the starchy qualities of it are easy for microorganisms to metabolize. I would believe that they would be the first to get contaminated. The idea is to not any live contams in!

Has any of your WBS started to germinate? Are you keeping them in the dark? Does it look hydrated enough?
So far, 0 contams.
-------------------- Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't. ~Cappa.
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bemmers1
friend of afriendly farmer
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 179
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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Re: WBS Growth [Re: cappa]
#5387785 - 03/10/06 11:39 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I would have to agree. My conditions are pretty good as far as contams go...I try to keep things really clean. Nevertheless, at least I had some growth. I took a quick look today and it smells off to me....almost cheesy. What does fermenting wbs smell like? It still doesn't seem contaminated, but I would have to think by this point some growth should be showing if it were going to happen.
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bemmers1
friend of afriendly farmer
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 179
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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Re: WBS Growth [Re: bemmers1]
#5388624 - 03/11/06 09:29 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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My bags are in the dark, no wbs had germinated. That is actually a really good point, you would think if my wbs was wet enough there would be some germination of the seeds. True or false?
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: WBS Growth [Re: bemmers1]
#5388650 - 03/11/06 09:41 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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No, PC'ing would have inhibited the potential for the seeds to germinate.
How did you prepare your seeds? I missed that part.
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Quick WBS Prep
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cappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
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Re: WBS Growth [Re: FooMan]
#5389428 - 03/11/06 02:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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From what my partner and I have experienced. The germination occurs during or directly after the soak, not after they're PCed.
-------------------- Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't. ~Cappa.
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cappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
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Re: WBS Growth [Re: cappa]
#5389720 - 03/11/06 04:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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How did you hydrate your WBS? We have found that in our case, a simple 24 hours soak in room temperature water was not sufficient. A short 'simmer'/hot bath really helped get the moisture into the seeds.
I have a feeling that improper moisture in the seends are a leading cause of failures with WBS.
-------------------- Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't. ~Cappa.
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jamman
SCI fan

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 280
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
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Re: WBS Growth [Re: cappa]
#5389777 - 03/11/06 04:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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cappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
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Re: WBS Growth [Re: jamman]
#5390027 - 03/11/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Exactly. Test it. Try it. Do it.
-------------------- Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't. ~Cappa.
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bemmers1
friend of afriendly farmer
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 179
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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Re: WBS Growth [Re: cappa]
#5390284 - 03/11/06 08:16 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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This is a fantastic post, thought I would give it a bump for a few more people to check out. I have a feeling moisture content is my downfall too, tried simmering then adding water to the oven bag much like some do with mason jars during pc. Doesn't seem to work with the big bags though, wouldn't do it this way again. Thanks for the link jamman; another awaesome agar post.
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psillyrabit
President

Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 104
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
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Re: WBS Growth [Re: bemmers1]
#5472286 - 04/02/06 08:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I agree its been a hot subject lately. Ok so my first attempt which i referred to on the first page i found that a soak and 30min simmer was way too much for me, very little to no growth. So my second attempt i soaked ~24hrs like before, then simmered for only ~10-15mins, had much more growth but ended up stalling after a week. Im now trying just a soak and will be picking up some verm tomorrow to buffer out the moisture a little. hopefully this works out cuz ive wasted all but one of my syringes on this wbs and will have to purchase more if this fuks up again, wish me luck
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psillyrabit
President

Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 104
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
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Another quick thought i think that the amount of wbs your doing at a time may matter b/c my pc can only fit three quart jars at a time. So when i simmer its only the amount i need in a small pot. So simmering may be too much for such a small amount of wbs. Just an idea.
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