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agar
old hand


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE
#5380495 - 03/09/06 08:29 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sadly, there is no MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE.
Here is why.
Peat from differing sources have differing Ph.
Verm from differing sources have differing Ph.
Coir from differing sources have differing Ph.
Water from differing sources have differing pH.
How can one add a specific amount of buffering agent, to something so variable that will result in an optimal casing mix Ph (7.5)?
You cannot.
Unless you use a Ph meter, or litmus strips to test it.

  
I use these two things to adjust Ph. I use a ph meter, or litmus strips to test the ph.
That is how (amongst other things), you get a healthy pin-set.

A packet of litmus strips is inexpensive & easy to find. Why not get & use some. If so, you will know EXACTLY what the resulting casing mix pH is.
 Then, get results - as above.
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ixitwistedixi
The TwIsTeD One

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 967
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE [Re: agar]
#5380552 - 03/09/06 09:11 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Beautiful man, thanks for the tip.
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FractalXplora
Grainiack



Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 2,494
Loc: UK
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Re: MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE [Re: ixitwistedixi]
#5380575 - 03/09/06 09:26 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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yep hes right, my first grow went gr8, ph stips are inexpensive and get u in the rite PH zone. good advice
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bongtoke
Mushies


Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 1,393
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE [Re: FractalXplora]
#5380615 - 03/09/06 09:45 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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no,thansk for the strip
-------------------- GOTTA LOVE POO CAKES!!!
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sivad02487
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 285
Last seen: 17 years, 23 days
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Re: MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE [Re: bongtoke]
#5380656 - 03/09/06 09:59 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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agar, where did you get the ph meter from? How much?
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cappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
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Re: MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE [Re: sivad02487]
#5381376 - 03/09/06 01:29 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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You can get pH gauges at garden supply stores. Check online if you can't find them at your local garden store.
~Cappa.
-------------------- Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't. ~Cappa.
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE [Re: sivad02487]
#5381453 - 03/09/06 01:49 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Those meters are expensive bro. The best thing for the price is litmus paper that can be bought at laboratory/scientific supply-type stores or online. (thanks again Agar! )
I bought some cheesy looking pH meter at the garden store. It was the kind with the green meter and long aluminum stick. IT SUCKED! The meter NEVER moved up or down even when I stuck it directly into very acidic or alkaline solutions. Avoid these if you can.
Litmus paper is dirt cheap and accurate, so an expensive gauge isn't neccessary IMO.
--------------------
Quick WBS Prep
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pcubmycol
flattiefisherman

Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 747
Loc: Selectively breeding the ...
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE [Re: FooMan]
#5381630 - 03/09/06 02:39 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Very true...
In certain parts of FL you dont even have to use any lime in your casing, just a long term buffer... (if ya use the well water)
happy trails
-------------------- weretheshit.com is the shit! :-D
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cappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
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Re: MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE [Re: FooMan]
#5381734 - 03/09/06 03:19 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
FooManShroom said:
Litmus paper is dirt cheap and accurate, so an expensive gauge isn't neccessary IMO.
Not so accurate if you're color blind!
-------------------- Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't. ~Cappa.
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RemainRandom50
Do You Need ToKnow Me?
Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 1,695
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE [Re: cappa]
#5381784 - 03/09/06 03:33 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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great post
-------------------- At times I get consumed by my everyday life and will leave the Shroomery. Yet, every time drugs come falling into my life for fun.....I always think about the Shroomery and then I'm back!
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shroomr4life
Registered: 06/30/04
Posts: 347
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just outa curiousity, but how do u use the strips? You just bury it in the mix and sprinkle some water over it or something?
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tiny_rabid_birds
Nocturnal


Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 15,653
Loc: estados unidos
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Re: MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE [Re: shroomr4life]
#5382933 - 03/09/06 08:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hydrated lime for the longterm buffer, calcium carbonate for the fast acting buffer, right? Is there a specific ratio that should be used? I understand you need to test the pH to determine how much it needs to be buffered, but how do you know how much of each to add?
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MrMaddHatter
Dementia praecox


Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 1,420
Loc: Everywhere
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Quote:
tiny_rabid_birds said: Hydrated lime for the longterm buffer, calcium carbonate for the fast acting buffer, right?
You got that backwards. Hydrated lime for fast buffering and calcium carbonate for long term. 
As for getting the ph right, add small amounts of hydrated lime and keep checking the ph until its right. Then add a handful of oyster shells (calcium carbonate).
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tiny_rabid_birds
Nocturnal


Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 15,653
Loc: estados unidos
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Re: MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE [Re: MrMaddHatter]
#5383030 - 03/09/06 09:00 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ahhh... thanks for clearing that up.
So I want to acheive 7.5 using the hydrated lime alone, then just add the handful of calcium carbonate..? Would the calcium carbonate not continue to basify the substrate since the optimal pH was already acheived via hydrated lime?
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agar
old hand


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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1. Hydrated lime is fast acting, but short term. 2. Oyster shell flour is slow acting, but long term.
1, gets it there. 2, keeps it there
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fresh313
journeyman


Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE [Re: agar]
#5383754 - 03/09/06 11:48 PM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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agar man, so whens the mushroom cultivation olympics???
u gonna take the gold home for the USA no doubt.
ill be your compost mixer and pressure cooker.
come on who else is on the team???
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Blue Helix
bold hand


Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 11 months, 14 days
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Re: MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE [Re: agar]
#5383816 - 03/10/06 12:11 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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agar hits the nail right on the head again! Yup, a good pH probe is absolutely essential if you are using hydrated lime, and it's a good idea if you use calcium carbonate but not as important. I use a probe myself every time I mix up a casing and my pin sets show it.

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agar
old hand


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE [Re: Blue Helix]
#5383903 - 03/10/06 12:35 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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BlueHelix, you got it DOWN - PAT. (much applause for those pin-sets)
The intent of this thread was to point out a simple fact.
Some casing mix recipes call for:
X amount of THIS & X amount of THAT.
Trouble is, the pH of everyones THIS & THAT differs. (simply because it comes from differing souses - worldwide)
So, unless you TEST the pH of this & that. You can never know if you are even in the ball-park.
As, your untested mix may look PERFECT. When, in fact it is not even IN THE BALL-PARK.
It is CERTAINLY disgruntling to have: Gone to all the trouble of colonizing wbs/grain spawn. Then spawning that to a bulk substrate. Then, incubating the bulk substrate to 100% colonization. (assuming - everything is near optimal, so far).
Then, adding a casing mix: That has a pH so far outside the desired range.
That, mycelium will not colonize it.
Resulting in little or no pins/fruits. (except possibly some that side pin, where there is no bunko casing mix).
Then, the cultivator is starts shouting posts about WTF went wrong. 
What did go WRONG, was the pH of the casing mix. Because they failed to TEST & ADJUST prior to application. Simple as that.
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Blue Helix
bold hand


Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 11 months, 14 days
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Re: MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE [Re: agar]
#5383953 - 03/10/06 12:49 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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I agree. But I want to add that if you DON'T have a pH probe or litmus paper (which really doesn't work that well I have to tell you), then you are best using calcium carbonate flour and should NEVER use hydrated lime. Why? Because calcium carbonate, unlike hydrated lime, stops dissolving in the lower 8s.
Let me try to explain this. If I take a glass of reverse osmosis pure water with absolutely no ability to influence pH and add FULL TABLESPOON of the most ultra pure finest mesh (and so most reactive) calcium carbonate flour you can find--and I have actually DONE this to prove it to myself--guess what the resulting pH is? It is about 8.3 or about the same pH as the ocean. That's pretty high for mushrooms, but keep in mind that this is the WORST CASE SCENARIO of adding too much. And even at that high pH of 8.3, which you probably wouldn't get unless you went nuts with the stuff, the MUSHROOMS WILL PIN in that casing soil - maybe not too well but they'll do it.
Now, let's talk about hydrated lime. If I take a glass of water and add a speck of hydrated lime about the size of a period on a piece of paper, what do you think the pH becomes? It'll be 12.5! That's high enough to burn the hell out of mycelium! The worst case scenario of hydrated lime is total destruction of all life in the casing soil and not a single pin forming. That's why I don't recommend using it unless you have a pH probe to make sure you didn't go overboard, which is super easy to do when you are shooting in the dark without a probe because, as agar said, all peat mosses vary in pH, all coco coirs vary in pH, all tap waters vary in pH, and so on. You just can't predict it well enough to use something as dangerous as hydrated lime.
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krill
absolute gonzo


Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 521
Loc: mars hotel
Last seen: 12 years, 1 hour
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Re: MAGIC CASING MIXTURE RECIPE [Re: Blue Helix]
#5384019 - 03/10/06 01:15 AM (18 years, 3 months ago) |
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Agar, i'd LOVE to ask you... since i just cased my first poo/spawn casings yesterday...
what do you recommend as far as casing layer depth (i used hydrated coir and a mix of fine AND chunky verm)?
i realize this is a BIT REMEDIAL for y'all, but the search engine gives varying advice here, and i'd rather ask one who KNOWS.
and, for the record, my casing layers were between (ballpark) 3/4"-1"
i know itsa dumb Q, but i OBSESS to say the LEAST.
-------------------- "DO NOT ADJUST YOUR MIND. IT IS REALITY THAT IS MALFUNCTIONING." - Robert Anton Wilson NO LEFT TURN UN-STONED
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