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danthefuckinman
Stranger
Registered: 03/09/06
Posts: 5
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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need some knowledgable advice on a topic regarding vermiculite toxicity
#5380094 - 03/09/06 02:17 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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this question is for the cats that have a good bit of experience and understanding in the field of mushroom horticulture
i was pondering up an idea, in a strictly hypothetical sense, about cakes using vermiculite and wild bird seed. what would prevent one from making a tea from the cakes themselves? based on all that i've read, mycelium is very potent and besides the vermiculite factor, it seems like a better move to just make a "cake tea" than continuing into the fruiting stage. it's understood that vermiculite is dangerous if directly ingested in large quantities. though if one were to make a tea with cakes containing it, would any alkaloids of the vermiculite, itself, travel into the liquid? vermiculite is used to hold and retain moisture, so it seems like, yes, it's an excellent sponge for the water, but not a material that can dissolve into it. would a thorough filtering, ensuring all particles are removed, leave one with a safe, drinkable product or would some of the chemicals within the vermiculite fall into the liquid solution? what is the reality of this hypothetical hypothesis? is it possible or very unpractical?
dan the fucking man
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DinahTheCat
Seeker of Truth


Registered: 11/19/05
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Re: need some knowledgable advice on a topic regarding vermiculite toxicity [Re: danthefuckinman]
#5380209 - 03/09/06 03:24 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I do not know if alkaloids of the vermiculite would travel in your tea, but I'm ALMOST certain that none are harmful. The only contervesy about verm in the past has been either having the "glitter shits" later after injestion or about that mine that verm came from that had abestos or something(nothing to worry about now). I have eaten straight verm(nasty ass shit) and the only thing was gliter shits the next day from the mica. Cheers!
-------------------- "Sanity is not statistical."
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: need some knowledgable advice on a topic regarding vermiculite toxicity [Re: danthefuckinman]
#5380325 - 03/09/06 06:30 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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A mushroom is a mushroom and usually more potent than mycelium.
A mycelium cake can be contaminated on the inside, which you wont notice if you process it to tea. That can be dangerous.
Some degrees of vermiculite contain asbestos. I think its reasonable to assume there are traces of asbestos in all vermiculite.
Vermiculite is "popcorned rock" and might mechanically scrape and irritate the lining of your bowels as it passes through them. Since your bowels contain ounces of pure germs this can lead to a nasty infection.
As you can hear I'm definitely not happy with vermiculite, but I think growers are OK as long if they don't grind it, dont treat it in a way which forms or whirls up vermiculite dust, and do not eat the stuff.
Eat the mushrooms, not the myc.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Hippie3
mycotopiate


Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: need some knowledgable advice on a topic regarding vermiculite toxicity [Re: Asante]
#5380328 - 03/09/06 06:34 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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" I think its reasonable to assume there are traces of asbestos in all vermiculite."
not so sure about that, as i understood it all the asbestos-laden verm. came from one mining complex in canada now shut down for obvious reasons. the rest of the world's supply seems free of that taint as far as the official word goes from the manufacturers
-------------------- Admin @ mycotopia.net Mycotopia
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Asante
Mage


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Posts: 86,795
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Re: need some knowledgable advice on a topic regarding vermiculite toxicity [Re: Hippie3]
#5380334 - 03/09/06 06:38 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
not so sure about that, as i understood it all the asbestos-laden verm. came from one mining complex in canada now shut down for obvious reasons. the rest of the world's supply seems free of that taint as far as the official word goes from the manufacturers
Hey that would be great, but it is my experience that minerals are often closely associated where they occur and that "free of XYZ" usually means that XYZ is still present, but just below the legal or trade limit.
I wouldnt be surprised if vermiculite dust itself, when inhaled, may cause a lung synndrome because almost all insoluble powders do.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Asante
Mage


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Posts: 86,795
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Re: need some knowledgable advice on a topic regarding vermiculite toxicity [Re: Asante]
#5380341 - 03/09/06 06:42 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vermiculite is a natural mineral which expands with the application of heat. It is formed by hydration of certain basaltic minerals, and is often found in association with asbestos.
I just checked Wikipedia and it backed it. I wouldn't be surprised if it is *always* associated, just in tiny amounts.
UPDATE:
in the EPA asbestos in vermiculite factsheet the EPA bought several kinds of vermiculite in garden stores. 15 percent of these (one in six) contained quantifiable amounts of asbestos.
Please note that one in six horticultural vermiculite brands is clearly asbestos-contaminated, so at least one in six verm cake growers is handling a significantly asbestos-contaminated product.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
Edited by Asante (03/09/06 06:53 AM)
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Hippie3
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Re: need some knowledgable advice on a topic regarding vermiculite toxicity [Re: Asante]
#5380371 - 03/09/06 07:17 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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but note the date on that report- august of 2000. that was before the scandal and the removal of the tainted verm. from the market.
-------------------- Admin @ mycotopia.net Mycotopia
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Hippie3
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Re: need some knowledgable advice on a topic regarding vermiculite toxicity [Re: Asante]
#5380373 - 03/09/06 07:19 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:...I wouldnt be surprised if vermiculite dust itself, when inhaled, may cause a lung synndrome because almost all insoluble powders do...
surely at the least there's irritation so as when working with any dust perlite or lime or vermiculite it's good to wear a dust mask. you can even get very ill just inhaling spores...
-------------------- Admin @ mycotopia.net Mycotopia
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Shampioenier
Storm in aTeaCup


Registered: 07/29/05
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dont make tea from it it might contain some heavy metals... ? [Re: Hippie3]
#5380387 - 03/09/06 07:26 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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why do you spawn with vermiculite when in fact plain cracked corn spawn grows faster than the shits in somalia
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Shampioenier
Storm in aTeaCup


Registered: 07/29/05
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I AHVE A PROBLEM; I AM TOO LAZY TO CONTINUE MY SPAWN RUN WHAT SHOULD I DO? [Re: Shampioenier]
#5380390 - 03/09/06 07:30 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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help. Ive grown so lazy I just lie in bed the whole day watching TV I haev about 7 cambodians brimmin over the rim and about 30 others that will need spawnin in 2 weeks what should I do my lab is in ruins and I dont hae a dust mask;;; HELP!!!
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Shampioenier
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Re: I AHVE A PROBLEM; I AM TOO LAZY TO CONTINUE MY SPAWN RUN WHAT SHOULD I DO? [Re: Shampioenier]
#5380396 - 03/09/06 07:32 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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help!!!!
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Nephlyte
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Registered: 10/11/05
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Re: need some knowledgable advice on a topic regarding vermiculite toxicity [Re: danthefuckinman]
#5380784 - 03/09/06 10:40 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
danthefuckinman said:
based on all that i've read, mycelium is very potent and besides the vermiculite factor, it seems like a better move to just make a "cake tea" than continuing into the fruiting stage.
dan the fucking man
What have you been reading? And how do you conclude that it would be a better move to make one serving of nasty(oh and its nasty) tea as opposed to growing perhaps 6 grams of dried mushrooms from a cake?
The fact is that the mycelium does one thing, grow mushrooms for eating. I mean, thats like as low as smoking cigarette butts out of an ashtray. Don't get lazy, just follow the procedure and you'll have more to trip with and they will store forever.
-------------------- "To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana
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Fraggin
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Registered: 01/05/05
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Re: need some knowledgable advice on a topic regarding vermiculite toxicity [Re: Nephlyte]
#5380824 - 03/09/06 10:51 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Asbestos if more prevalent than you would think. There are low parts per million in the atmosphere as it is. Consider that asbestos used to be used in everything from house wiring and insulation to brake pads and welding rods. It's an amazingly awesome compound. Even kings and pharos robes were made from asbestos. Considering this info, it's not impossible to believe that we are exposed to a low level of asbestos daily.
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danthefuckinman
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Registered: 03/09/06
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Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: need some knowledgable advice on a topic regarding vermiculite toxicity [Re: Fraggin]
#5381071 - 03/09/06 12:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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yes but does any chemicals with in the vermiculite fall into the liquid....any toxins or alkaloids that the vermiculite holds within itself, that would carry over to the tea? is my understanding of the subject, about vermiculite NOT being able to dissolve in a aquaous solution, correct or incorrect? i understand that ingesting vermiculite is not a good idea but if all particles are properly filtered out and the remaining liquid was clear and pure without any physical trace of the vermiculite within the liquid solution, would all be well then? and yeah i understand that one or two halfpint jars wouldn't be worthwhile in potency... i was contenplating much more of a mark.... something like 5-10 jars or 2-3 fully colonized mycobags in a highly concentated aquaous solution using vinegar to help the alkaloids become more water soluable. and yes i'm aware this tea would be quite foul and unpleasant to drink, so one would most likely vape off the end product and either encapsulize or use in a chocolate recipe
though good call on undetected contamination within the cake itself. this is good information.
some good info on asbestos as well.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: need some knowledgable advice on a topic regarding vermiculite toxicity [Re: danthefuckinman]
#5382137 - 03/09/06 04:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Since there probably will be fine dust in your vermiculite it will probably be in your liquid also, as filtering them out is almost impossible.
Filtering ultrafine dust suspensions from a fluid is one of the headaches of a chemical laboratory. Usually they solve it chemically, you cannot.
Dont eat myc. Use it as is or as spawn, grow mushrooms and eat those. Really. Its not what you want to hear but its the best advice we can give you in your situation. You might want to look into Psilocybe mexicana truffles.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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delwel69
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Registered: 01/27/15
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Re: need some knowledgable advice on a topic regarding vermiculite toxicity [Re: danthefuckinman]
#21495181 - 04/03/15 03:42 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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I wasnt patient didn't want to wait4 my cakes to fruit. I wanted to trip so I tried to extract the activeswith cranberry juice from 2 cakes. I drank the nasty concoction and waited, felt like being slightly stoned. I now wish I had the patience and just fruited them mushrooms are so much strongthan mycilia and are worth the wait
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PrimalSoup
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Re: need some knowledgable advice on a topic regarding vermiculite toxicity [Re: delwel69]
#21495264 - 04/03/15 05:33 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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9 fuckin' year old thread. It ain't a record but it's darn close....
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