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newearthmushroom
apologist


Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 101
Loc: ky
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Organic grains
#5379994 - 03/09/06 01:14 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I am wondering if anyone here uses organic grains for grain spawn, if so where do you come by it?
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agar
old hand


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Rye seed grain from Feed & Seed stores works fine.
One hell of a lot cheaper than at organic food stores.
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remediator
IllustriousPotentato


Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 137
Loc: NOLA ATM
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Tough call to make, imo.
Organic really is expensive compared to regs... and a bitch to roll up on. Finding large quantities of stuff near your post is crucial. And what species do you intend to fruit from it? You know that many of these organisms we grow can break the hydrocarbons down? As in, eat pesticides and herbicides (not all mushrooms, not all chems) ?
If you are gonna go big, and want to get certified organic, by all means, source what you need, then have it shipped. If you're just gonna grow for you and Fam, just buy bulk at the coop, or wherever bulk OG is sold. If you're going bulk, how do you intend to ensure that THAT substrate is OG? OG straw is less common than non-og, cuz there isn't much demand and it doesn't get differentiated from regs much, AFIK. Go OG for small scale. For personal. Buy it where you buy food. For anything else, whatever little Baddies are in there won't likely make it to the shrooms (unless it's a metal they really like, in which case take note of which shrooms are hyper-accumulators..) hopethishelps
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MycoshackC
The Grand Masterof Jars


Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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Re: Organic grains [Re: remediator]
#5382178 - 03/09/06 05:06 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well, I use only organic,, and it's not that expensive! Don't buy from health food stores, go to feed stores or farm stores/markets. Online is another option, it really isn't THAT expensive to ship. I believe everyone's fav. fungi company sells 50lb bags of organic rye grain for $12 or so. It's usually only $20 to ship.
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remediator
IllustriousPotentato


Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 137
Loc: NOLA ATM
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Re: Organic grains [Re: MycoshackC]
#5385020 - 03/10/06 10:22 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Give us a link there, willya? I looked at fungi perfecti, then did some googling. None of the feed stores i have been to have carried any organic seeds. Co-ops have, and giants like Whole Foods and the like. Then there are distributors... But hey, Rye grass seed that i have seen has been in the $.50 - $1.50 range generally. For NON-organic.
Besides that, i have been using millet for eons now, cuz it's atardedly simple to get the water right with no pre-cooking or rinsing or gypsum etc. But not "Human-consumption" millet. Feed millet. 14.99 for 50#s
I would gladly buy rye grass seed at 12.99 or 15.99 even 25 bucks for organic rye seed would be fabulous. Are you talking about Rye berries, as in food? or seed, as in, plant your ass some grass?
Anyone else?
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MycoshackC
The Grand Masterof Jars


Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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Re: Organic grains [Re: remediator]
#5385382 - 03/10/06 12:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Fungi Perfecti is where you want to be. 50lb bag for less than $15. $15 more to ship it across the country....not too bad!
I was refering to rye berries, which are the absolute best for growing just about any type of mushroom. The seed is generally reserved for those species that produce sclerota.
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remediator
IllustriousPotentato


Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 137
Loc: NOLA ATM
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Re: Organic grains [Re: MycoshackC]
#5385922 - 03/10/06 02:49 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ok. I still didn't see a listing for any grains at the web site, but I'm about to go back and have a look-see. And now I'm not as surprised, knowing that it's rye berries. They are generally cheaper, but the organic usually ends up relatively costly. I have seen organic rye berries for upwards of $140 for 50 lb bags. This is what i realized about rye berries: i couldn't get the water ratio right without pre-soak or pre-cook. I like to load my jars with millet, fill to the proper level, and PC. When the jars are cool enough to touch, i immediately shake them to loosen the individual kernels, otherwise they are clumpy.
It has been some time since i experimented with rye, wheat and corn and such, but i do recall realizing after reading and re-reading The Mushroom Cultivator, Back In The Day, that he was specifying rye grass seed, for it's smaller size and therefore more easily penetrable husk and increased number of inoculation points... He even says that premeasured amounts can be loaded into jars and then pc'ed and shaken, in the same way that i have become dependent on with millet. Since every batch of grains involves 19-21 jars, i will never again, soak/cook my grains before PC'ing. It's simply too much work.
Could you tell me how you process your organic rye berries, so that i might seriously consider this option myself? I truly wish to use organic grains myself for the food i eat. And currently i am involved with a volunteer organization, Common Ground, in New Orleans, that seeks to incorporate mushrooms into their bio-remediation strategies, so there is some concern amongst the citizenry about organic grains...
Thanks for your input, MycoshackC...
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MycoshackC
The Grand Masterof Jars


Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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Re: Organic grains [Re: remediator]
#5388714 - 03/11/06 10:02 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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^^Wow, that's a noble cause! I love the idea of incorporating bio-remediation!!! I have been using the spore oil from Fungi Perfecti when cutting down oaks w/my chainsaw lately - and it's really, really a neat idea - I can't wait to come back this fall and hopefully have something waiting for me!!
Anyway, goto Fungi Perfecti's website and click on cultivation tools, then click on Sterile Culture Media(2nd link down), and it's the 5th item down. And, I apologize, it's $20 for 50lb - organic. I use it and can attest to it's quality. It's also very tasty!!
I use two diff. methods to prepare my grains:
Personally, I prefer soaking for 24-48 hours and not simmering at all. Fungi's rye will be at about 65% moisture after 36hrs. I just measure out the amount of grain I will need into a large canning pot(Wal-Mart - $15), and cover with hot spring/rain water several times over. The canning pots are nice because they will easily hold enough grain for 24+ quart jars. After 36 hrs or so, strain the water off and rinse several times......check the moisture content.........and drain for 45min-1hr, stirring several times during the draining.
The other method involves just simmering the grains, and does not work nearly as well IMO. I can detail if you like, just let me know!
A should also add that I mix white millet with my rye grains at a rate of about 30%. Works great for me, I haven't had any bacterial contams or stalled jars since switching to the soak-only method.....I've got 48 quarts of that mix colonizing with shiitake at the moment, all perfect....
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mycogirl
goddamn



Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 1,135
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I usually can get 25 lbs or organic rye for $15 at the local food co-op. Although, it helps to have a 'cause' for your bulk grain purchase when you go ito the store.
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newearthmushroom
apologist


Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 101
Loc: ky
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: Organic grains [Re: mycogirl]
#5396247 - 03/13/06 07:07 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hmm i am growing commercialy so i go through alot of grain. I use feed corn wich i can get for $10 for 100 lbs. Since i pre soak it and then rinse i assume most the chems are gone but i was just looking to see if there was a way to get organic cheap.
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remediator
IllustriousPotentato


Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 137
Loc: NOLA ATM
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wow, how do you efficiently soak and rinse large quantities of grain? I always found it such a drain to get the grain drained enough... For 20 quarts at a time.
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shopdropper
Professional Psychonaut

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 1,623
Loc: Sailing the sea of cheese
Last seen: 6 months, 24 days
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Re: Organic grains [Re: remediator]
#5402091 - 03/15/06 03:17 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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awww i cant find millet at kmart or walmart.... where can i find iiiiiit?
-------------------- DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME: no guarantees can be made about the accuracy of the information herein. The information dicussed in these posts is purely hypothetical, and for intelectual purposes only. Any similarity between internet chat and real life is pure coincidence.
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remediator
IllustriousPotentato


Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 137
Loc: NOLA ATM
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Feed Stores ... I have seen Millet that is grown and processed for human consumption, and I'm sure it *could* make a fine spawn material,but it doesn't suit my methods at all. the hull has been removed or softened or bred to be thin, and the grains themselves are smaller. It bursts in the pc and you get a sticky clumpy mess. Every major city I've been in has had a feed store somewhere near it, and the country is full of them at random. So It's feed millet. White. 50# 14.99 at my local Garden Center/feed store.
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agar
old hand


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: Organic grains [Re: remediator]
#5403392 - 03/15/06 01:07 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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True, hulled millet makes sticky mush.
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MycoshackC
The Grand Masterof Jars


Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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Re: Organic grains [Re: agar]
#5404389 - 03/15/06 04:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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^Yep.
As for processing large amounts, think big! Go to a resturant and ask them for their pickle/5-gallon buckets and use those! I can easily do 20 pounds in a couple of those.
As for straining, try and find a kitchen outlet store as they often have large strainers, or use one of those wire trash cans from wal-mart. Someone(I forgot who!), did a thread not too long ago about using those. The only down side is that you have to keep stirring it so it can drain properly.
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newearthmushroom
apologist


Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 101
Loc: ky
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: Organic grains [Re: MycoshackC]
#5412391 - 03/17/06 11:40 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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With whole corn all i do is dump it in the sink with a screen in the drain and all the water drains pretty well.
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