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cokaznrebel
BBQ CHK CHZ STK
Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Mile High
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: PF bfr verm produces week mushrooms [Re: spock]
#5377437 - 03/08/06 12:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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My mushies are VERY potent, and grown from special mushroom compost that has alot of Nitrogen in it. Id say my mushies are about 1.25-1.5 times as potent as Poo mushrooms, and 4 times as potent as BRF.
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HSIHd
ProfessionalHamburgler


Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 1,719
Loc: IOWA
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Re: PF bfr verm produces week mushrooms [Re: cokaznrebel]
#5377477 - 03/08/06 01:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
cokaznrebel said: My mushies are VERY potent, and grown from special mushroom compost that has alot of Nitrogen in it.
What do you use?
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nice
friend

Registered: 10/17/05
Posts: 127
Loc: Portland or Nyc
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: PF bfr verm produces week mushrooms [Re: cokaznrebel]
#5377510 - 03/08/06 01:32 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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ya i guess im done with brf novice lesson learned, im suprised i never came across a potency warning befo i made them, I thought it might have been the way i dried them but when i ate about 80 gr fresh with the more or less same results i knew something was wrong I thought brusing was psylocibin content anyone know why they brused totaly super blue and where weekly potent
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coda
Banjo Goiter


Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 8,750
Last seen: 10 months, 3 days
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Re: PF bfr verm produces week mushrooms [Re: nice]
#5377534 - 03/08/06 01:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Bluing is one of few ways to ID actives, this is raging debate, but it's not an accurate measure of potency.
-------------------- To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . . -JG i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug* -A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten)
 Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.
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cokaznrebel
BBQ CHK CHZ STK
Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Mile High
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: PF bfr verm produces week mushrooms [Re: HSIHd]
#5377549 - 03/08/06 01:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
HSIHd said:
Quote:
cokaznrebel said: My mushies are VERY potent, and grown from special mushroom compost that has alot of Nitrogen in it.
What do you use?
I use compost specially designed for agaricus mushroom growth, very similar to what cubes need. I get it from my local mushroom farm for free. Its covered in firefang and has a alot of nuts and is loaded with nitrogen.
The same exact stuff I use is described in more detail here http://mushroomspawn.cas.psu.edu/Substrate.htm
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fasttrigga
JuniorMycologist

Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 21
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: PF bfr verm produces week mushrooms [Re: cokaznrebel]
#5377646 - 03/08/06 02:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I was thinking of something the other day when reading some of the debate as to the potency of brf cakes and growing on hpoo. What if, just what if you made some kind of tea so to say by steeping hpoo in water. Then when you go to dunk your cakes, dunk them in this nutrient rich horse shit tea!!! Any thoughts as to whether this would increase harvests or potency?!!? Thought I would give it a shot since this is my first time growing.
-------------------- MMMMMMMMMM Mushies Gooood!!!
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Hippie3
mycotopiate


Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: PF bfr verm produces week mushrooms [Re: spock]
#5378190 - 03/08/06 04:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
spock said: if someone sells jars of brf then someone might want people to think they produce potent shrooms.
your logic is flawed. i have rye, popcorn, wbs, worm castings. not just premade pf style jars. i don't care if someone buys the rye or the brf, pays me the same either way. hell making bags of rye is easier by far so if i wanted to push my sales i'd be telling folks rye was best.  so don't try to insinuate that i have an ulterior motive in saying the plain truth. it is a flat out falsehood to state that more nutes = more potency. it ain't that simple.
-------------------- Admin @ mycotopia.net Mycotopia
Edited by Hippie3 (03/08/06 04:59 PM)
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Hippie3
mycotopiate


Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: PF bfr verm produces week mushrooms [Re: coda]
#5378220 - 03/08/06 04:56 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
coda said: Hippie, im surprised, of all people you should know that manure has a higher nitrogen content then basic substrates. ..
so what ? fungi are not plants, they don't use raw nitrogen like plants do, they eat food, rye, rice, millet, etc. you don't see rye listed by its NPK ratio in TMC, it's carbs, starches, sugars, etc. and for every guy who swears poo makes potent shrooms i can find a guy who sez his were bunk. ditto for straw and every other substrate known. there are always people who blame the substrate or the strain but the simple truth is the potency of cubies varies wildly even when grown on identical substrates. there is no 'perfect' substrate for maximum potency.
-------------------- Admin @ mycotopia.net Mycotopia
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Atheist
Stranger


Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 13,705
Loc: USA
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Re: PF bfr verm produces week mushrooms [Re: Hippie3]
#5378253 - 03/08/06 05:04 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I grew a shitload of mushrooms with BRF. Many different strains: CR, EQ, B+ and they looked so fucking beautful growing off the cakes and off of the casings. After harvest of my first cakes we threw them in the dehydrator for over night. Now this is almost 2 months after inoculation (didn't incubate) and I was fucking stoked to trip.
Well whatever happens, I couldn't have been more disappointed in the mushrooms. I ate about 5 dried grams the first night and tripped like it was one gram. They were the weakest fucking mushrooms I've ever had and I was soooo fucking pissed. The only thing I can blame it on is that I got pregrinded flour from the local health food store. I'll use BRF again because it is really easy to do but I've just been using straight WBS to casings and its worked perfectly fine.
IMO BRF fucking blows ass and I fucking hate it. But thats me, and its hit or miss I guess but I missed really hard.
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tiny_rabid_birds
Nocturnal


Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 15,653
Loc: estados unidos
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Re: PF bfr verm produces week mushrooms [Re: Hippie3]
#5378263 - 03/08/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm going to admittedly play the part of parrot now and quote agar on why it is that hpoo allegedly produces more potent fruit.
Quote:
It contains a highly mycelia compatible nitrogen source.
Organic synthesis of actives is generally derived through tryptophan, which is an amino acid containing two (2) nitrogen?s.
Mycelia cannot convert carbon to nitrogen. Consequently, there has to be a source of compatible nitrogen in the substrate, in order to produce relatively high amounts of active?s.
Also, here is a post of his explaining why horse poo and compost are superior substrates.
Now I'm no chemist, biologist, or mycologist, but I do consider myself competent most of the time, and these explanations make sense.
Obviously you, Hippie3, disagree, so I'm just curious what processes you believe are taking place which would disprove or negate the explanations offered forth. Don't take offense or anything, I'm just curious what you've got to say on the mechanics of the matter.
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Atheist
Stranger


Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 13,705
Loc: USA
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Re: PF bfr verm produces week mushrooms [Re: Hippie3]
#5378275 - 03/08/06 05:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hippie3 said: brf produces potent shroomage, as potent as any other substrate. potency has very little to do with substrate choice.
Is he joking???
Couldn't be more wrong IMO
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cokaznrebel
BBQ CHK CHZ STK
Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Mile High
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: PF bfr verm produces week mushrooms [Re: Atheist]
#5378396 - 03/08/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpicyTunaRoll said:
Quote:
Hippie3 said: brf produces potent shroomage, as potent as any other substrate. potency has very little to do with substrate choice.
Is he joking??? Couldn't be more wrong IMO
I agree
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Hippie3
mycotopiate


Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Quote:
tiny_rabid_birds said: I'm going to admittedly play the part of parrot now and quote agar on why it is that hpoo allegedly produces more potent fruit.
Quote:
It contains a highly mycelia compatible nitrogen source.
Organic synthesis of actives is generally derived through tryptophan, which is an amino acid containing two (2) nitrogen?s.
Mycelia cannot convert carbon to nitrogen. Consequently, there has to be a source of compatible nitrogen in the substrate, in order to produce relatively high amounts of active?s.
Also, here is a post of his explaining why horse poo and compost are superior substrates.
Now I'm no chemist, biologist, or mycologist, but I do consider myself competent most of the time, and these explanations make sense.
Obviously you, Hippie3, disagree, so I'm just curious what processes you believe are taking place which would disprove or negate the explanations offered forth. Don't take offense or anything, I'm just curious what you've got to say on the mechanics of the matter.
i read agar's post but all i saw was him expressing his personal opinion, i saw no evidence, no proof. now i'm not going to waste time arguing with newbie know-it-alls who think it's good fun to talk shit. but just think for a second- thousands of people use the pf tek and have for over a decade. the surveys & polls clearly show that far more use pf tek than any other method/substrate. poll poll now i know there are those who will talk fast and loud to try to drown me out here. they want everyone to grow the same way they do. they says it's the best, the only. but the consensus of hundreds, thousands of growers using the pf tek is more convincing. believe what you want. but here's just one sample of the bad logic i see here-
Quote:
In the cased of BRF, it is a fact that BRF type PF cake jars, colonize much slower that do seed/grain spawn. Why is that? Answer, the nutrient composition is not optimal.
lol here's a thought- one shakes grain jars to speed colonization but not brf pf jars. think that shaking makes a difference ? you bet it does. but he completely misses that consideration and uses the faster colonization of shaken grain jars to prove they are better nutritionally ? where is the evidence ???
-------------------- Admin @ mycotopia.net Mycotopia
Edited by Hippie3 (03/08/06 05:53 PM)
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Anonymous
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Post deleted by Anno [Re: Hippie3]
#5378519 - 03/08/06 06:07 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Edited by richardcypher101 (03/08/06 06:10 PM)
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FungusMan
I81U812



Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 3,112
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: PF bfr verm produces week mushrooms [Re: ]
#5378528 - 03/08/06 06:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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When I did brf, 3 grams knocked me on my ass.7 took me to another world. Prolly the way you harvested/dried.
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musher_420
Stranger

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 2,691
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Re: PF bfr verm produces week mushrooms [Re: ]
#5378549 - 03/08/06 06:14 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have noticed that my Poo grown shrooms are more potent and I get a better yield but I surely can't PROVE why.
But I can think of a few other benefits to using poo. It's FREE!! and wildly available in large quantities (at least in my neck of the woods)
I can pasteurize more then I can fit into my PC.
I can spawn to it in open air with a great success rate. (preparing grain spawn is easier to do then the Pf tek In my opinion as well.)
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Hippie3
mycotopiate


Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: PF bfr verm produces week mushrooms [Re: musher_420]
#5378586 - 03/08/06 06:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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richardcypher101 i'm not the person making a claim one way or the other, i do not state that hpoo is best, i do not state that brf is best. i merely point out that there is no evidence to support the assertion that more nutes = more potency, there is no evidence that potency is even related to substrate composition. the burden of proof is not upon those who doubt- it is on those making the claims like the title of this thread. further a poll is what it is, and both polls listed close to what, 80 growers ? and 'topia is every bit a legitimate respected community, with people like rodger rabbit and workman posting. i'm no slacker myself, your own archives here list a few of my inventions/teks. so i know my shit as well as any of you, if not moreso. further your entire post is just one more example of shoddy thinking, you attack me, mycotopia, the polls themselves but bring not one iota of information to support the argument. you portray folks using pf tek as more likely to be 'dealers' but i daresay we all know the reverse is more the case, it's the people cranking out the pounds on straw and hpoo that are the dealers, not the guy nursing 6 cakes in a rubbermaid.
-------------------- Admin @ mycotopia.net Mycotopia
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Anonymous
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Post deleted by Anno [Re: Hippie3]
#5378616 - 03/08/06 06:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Edited by richardcypher101 (03/08/06 06:39 PM)
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tiny_rabid_birds
Nocturnal


Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 15,653
Loc: estados unidos
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Re: PF bfr verm produces week mushrooms [Re: Hippie3]
#5378657 - 03/08/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
i read agar's post but all i saw was him expressing his personal opinion, i saw no evidence, no proof. now i'm not going to waste time arguing with newbie know-it-alls who think it's good fun to talk shit. but just think for a second- thousands of people use the pf tek and have for over a decade. the surveys & polls clearly show that far more use pf tek than any other method/substrate. poll poll now i know there are those who will talk fast and loud to try to drown me out here. they want everyone to grow the same way they do. they says it's the best, the only. but the consensus of hundreds, thousands of growers using the pf tek is more convincing. believe what you want. but here's just one sample of the bad logic i see here-
Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the cased of BRF, it is a fact that BRF type PF cake jars, colonize much slower that do seed/grain spawn. Why is that? Answer, the nutrient composition is not optimal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lol here's a thought- one shakes grain jars to speed colonization but not brf pf jars. think that shaking makes a difference ? you bet it does. but he completely misses that consideration and uses the faster colonization of shaken grain jars to prove they are better nutritionally ? where is the evidence ???
I understand, but you did nothing more than attempt to discredit the explanations put forth by taking one statement that was a half-truth and running with it, despite the fact that that particular statement actually had nothing to do with the argument that compost and/or horse manure have a nutritional content more suited to mushroom growth.
I say half-truth because I guarantee you that no one is disputing the fact that shaking grains creates more inoculation points and is a contributing factor to faster colonization times. But that does not completely eliminate the possibility that grains do have a more suitable nutritional content for mushroom growth, resulting in faster colonization as well. Just because one factor has an effect, does not mean that there are no other factors at work.
I suppose a decent test would be to make half a dozen PF jars, and half a dozen grain jars PF style so they cannot be shaken, then to observe the average colonization times. So if anyone has the means to do that right now, go for it, otherwise I guess I'll do it this weekend. Even still though, this is a digression from the original argument.
Another thing you mention is that so many people use the PF tek and stand by it, but come on, that is not any proof that it results in superior fruit. If anything, it's merely a testament to its ease, and the lure it has on people who know nothing about mushroom cultivation, nor the other options available.
Now if you must discredit any statement, I'd prefer it be the argument that horse manure is high in compatible nitrogen sources resulting in a higher production of actives in the mushrooms. I didn't even actually ask you to prove one thing or another, nor did I make the claim that they are more potent. Again, I just pointed at a quote attempting to explain it.
Now the point of my first post, other than pointing out those old threads, was to ask you your own personal theory on the mechanics behind it. You however, either missed my point, or you chose to avoid it. Either way is fine, but I'm still just curious why you think, in mycological terms, that PF cakes produce mushrooms just as potent as horse manure or compost. Or better yet, why you believe that agar's explanation of the importance of nitrogen (and tryptophan) in the organic synthesis of actives is bunk.
:EDIT: And you're right. No one has proof of either side. But demanding proof of either side in a situation like this is ridiculous because there have been no actual studies on this matter, to my knowledge. I'm not asking proof of you. I merely want to hear you explanation/belief on the mechanics occuring that lends you to believe what you believe.
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Edited by tiny_rabid_birds (03/08/06 06:52 PM)
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tiny_rabid_birds
Nocturnal


Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 15,653
Loc: estados unidos
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Re: PF bfr verm produces week mushrooms [Re: ]
#5378670 - 03/08/06 06:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
richardcypher101 said: Everyone in here can debate this all they want. Its until someone really cites and shows their evidence until this goes from debate to something added to a FAQ. Afterall, some feel that debate is won through convicing everyone else that you are correct and your opposer is incorrect.
What we really need is someone with an inquiring scientific mind and deep pockets to splurge on a gas spectrometer, in order to actually get a numerical value of the amount of actives. Then we could get some solid evidence.
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