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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers


Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide?
#5371292 - 03/06/06 03:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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So I've grown up, as many of you have, steeped in a Western culture where suicide is considered absolutely taboo, and even the discussion of it is quick to get one labeled crazy. We are told that suicide is no option, that no sane person would do it, that Jesus will hate us forever, and other scary stuff.
This is contrast to the view in Japan, where suicide is seen, if not as something to strive for, at least as a valid option for someone whos problems seem to be beyond their ability to deal with.
Just curious what you Shroomerites think. Do you think suicide is ever justified? If so, when? Medical reasons only? What about financial reasons?
Personally, I dont see anything wrong w/ it. Obviously, if a person is suddenly suicidal, or under the influence of anything, suicide is certainly not a good option. But shit. If a person has thought it out for years, and has no big responsibilites to leave behind (Wife/Kids/etc), whats the big fucking deal?
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Jadian
Ninja


Registered: 07/07/05
Posts: 7,404
Loc: The desert
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Re: Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#5371296 - 03/06/06 03:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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It is better to kill yourself and die with honor then fall victem to the sword of your enemy!
-------------------- LNC's official Alaskan stoner
 
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#5371297 - 03/06/06 03:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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dont do it, put the gun down, you'll hate yourself in the morning
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Stonerguy
I smoke penis


Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 5,538
Loc: Lost
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Re: Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#5371305 - 03/06/06 03:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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We are all entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. Suicide fits into all 3 of those Life(Or the lack there of), liberty (Freedom to kill yourself), and happiness(Obviously sucide is to make that person happy)
-------------------- yawn... SG
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#5371308 - 03/06/06 03:39 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I often wonder why people argue for abortion as a women's right to control her body, yet the same people are completly silent on the issue of suicide, prostition, or organ sales. (and abortion is already legal) If a women has a right to an abortion, then men and women have the right to suicide, prostitution, and selling their organs.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#5371314 - 03/06/06 03:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Suicide in Japan is different than suicide in the US because it has to do with honor rather than hopelessness. If someone in Japan commits suicide because they're depressed, it would still be looked down upon. If you're interested in the subject, you might want to read Suicide by Emile Durkheim. He explores the socio-cultural aspects of suicide. One of his findings is that suicide is less common in Catholic countries than Protestant ones. Why? Because Catholic countries have stronger social bonds and more emphasis on the community, whereas Protestant countries are more individualistic.
As for my personal feelings about it, I think it's something to be generally discouraged, though I could see scenarios where I would want to be put out of my misery.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers


Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide? [Re: Silversoul]
#5371317 - 03/06/06 03:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thats interesting. I admit, having never been to Japan, that most of my information on the subject is gleaned from light reading.
I very well may pick that book up.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers


Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#5371325 - 03/06/06 03:46 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thats got to be an old book though, eh?
Durkheim isnt alive anymore is he?
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#5371359 - 03/06/06 03:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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No he isn't. He was one of the founders of the field of sociology.
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Freeker
jackaroe

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,225
Loc: buffalo
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Re: Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#5371361 - 03/06/06 03:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'd like to die in a ritualistic sapuko kind of thing.
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TYL3R


Registered: 11/19/04
Posts: 17,493
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Re: Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide? [Re: Freeker]
#5371386 - 03/06/06 04:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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seppuku*
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Freeker
jackaroe

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,225
Loc: buffalo
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Re: Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide? [Re: TYL3R]
#5371388 - 03/06/06 04:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Whatever you say, cowboy.
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In(di)go
People of the sun.


Registered: 10/29/00
Posts: 8,157
Loc: Cologne, Germany
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Re: Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#5371407 - 03/06/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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personally i discourage suicide... seeing as it is a desicion of the ego and not of the soul... i have trouble trusting desicions from the part of me that believes that we are separate from everything...
now euthanasia on the other hand is something i favour... if someone is dying the person is definitely better off dying with dignity and honor than with a lot of suffering...
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Nephlyte
Misfortunate One


Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,025
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide? [Re: In(di)go]
#5371460 - 03/06/06 04:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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No way, i have to say i support everyone's right and desire to kill themselves. This is for a variety of reasons. lets just make a list: -First off, you have the fact that the only thing you truly own in this world is your mind and your body and if you wish to kill yourself, that sounds like the only thing in this world you can truly decide on. -Next, If you aren't enjoying life, you probably aren't working to make this world a better place. Your hatred for life will ultimately be reflected in all things you make and do. I don't want the man who designed the brakes on my car to walk around depressed all day as he worked out exactly how well they make my car stop. -Next, Less traffic -More oxygen and food for me and the people who want to live in this world -less pollution -happier populace (because the depressed people will be dead)
I'm sure there are more. But i really see how downside to suicide as long as you take care of any important business before you go.
-------------------- "To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana
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LiveByFreedom
Catalyst


Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 652
Loc: Mountains
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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Re: Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide? [Re: In(di)go]
#5371465 - 03/06/06 04:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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My friend recently killed himself because of chronic back pain. I think it was justified, although many of his friends (including his wife) are pretty sad. He just couldn't handle the pain any more, said work was hellish.
-------------------- "Everything is not as it seems." Eye
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#5371499 - 03/06/06 04:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Camus said that the only real philosophical question is whether one should commit suicide. If you see life as a cold, dead, mechanical nature, then I agree that's awfully depressing. But life is a wondrous phenomenon full of room for exploration. Not only that, but wouldn't it be amazing to realize the end of suffering is at hand!?
A person is entirely autonomous which means that they have the right to end their existence. You will never get another chance to live though forever and eternally.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Jadian
Ninja


Registered: 07/07/05
Posts: 7,404
Loc: The desert
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Re: Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide? [Re: Nephlyte]
#5371525 - 03/06/06 04:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Less traffic, haha.
-------------------- LNC's official Alaskan stoner
 
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InTheFlesh714
Drunk

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 958
Loc: (714)
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: Eastern Vs. Western views on Suicide? [Re: Jadian]
#5371643 - 03/06/06 05:03 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Suicide is illegal, just like pot, and society hates both of them
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