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MisterSativa
Long-term Psychonaut

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 9
Loc: the northern hemisphere
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mushrooms from a cow field
#5366116 - 03/04/06 11:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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ok..so i live in the bay area, and today i drove out by the coast to a grassy cow field where i have found mushrooms before. the rain just stopped yesterday and the weather has been cool..around 50-60 in the day. my friend and i spent about an hour picking all the mushrooms we could find; we got about half of a small paper bag full. i looked up a ton of pictures of all the different psilocybe species and im pretty sure that most of these are Psilocybe semilanceata(liberty caps), but i have no idea. i read somewhere that if you put a stem in a chemical called "Metol," used for photographic developing, mixed with 20parts water, if the solution turns blue you have found a psilocybian mushroom. is this true?
here are some pictures of a few of the mushrooms i found. a sporeprint is in the process right now of both kinds (yellow ones and brownish ones).






as you can see in the picture 2nd from the bottom, there are 2 or 3 different species in the bag.
are these the right kinds? anything you can tell me is probably more than i already know...so any information is greatly appreciated.
if you need more information or better angles of the mushrooms ill be happy to provide it. THANKS FOR THE HELP!!!!
-Tim
Edited by MisterSativa (03/04/06 11:37 PM)
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Dem_Bones
Strangler



Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 307
Loc: Oklahoma
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Re: mushrooms from a cow field [Re: MisterSativa]
#5366175 - 03/04/06 11:59 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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well one thing is make a spore print from each of the types of mushrooms you have and make sure the spores are purplish-brown to black and 2 that teh steams bruises bluish if the spores are any other color toss them thay arnt psilocybes this inculde brown rusty brown white gray these colors can kill you
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Dem_Bones
Strangler



Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 307
Loc: Oklahoma
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Re: mushrooms from a cow field [Re: Dem_Bones]
#5366225 - 03/05/06 12:22 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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that one on the bottom looks like galerina autumnalis thay grow near psilocibes and are deadly toxic and take like 6 days to kill make sure that one does not drop rusty brown spores note the other pics look like good shrooms
bad
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ant61

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 1,186
Loc: colorado
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Re: mushrooms from a cow field [Re: MisterSativa]
#5366548 - 03/05/06 05:58 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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ywah I cam tell from those pictures that some of those (are) liberty cap's,and some are (not). do some photo search's too find out what the other's are . and make a spore primt.
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todosmentira
Stranger


Registered: 01/05/06
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I've been picking liberty caps for years and none of these look like them. - the stems look too thick - the gills are the wrong colour - notice how the caps tend to be lighter towards the edge - in liberty caps they usually darken towards the edge. most (except the last pic) look like some kind of panaeolus (campanulatus?) liberty caps grow in cool/cold climates (is that like where you live?)- and prefer sheep/horse pastures to cow pastures - + they never grow straight out of the shit.
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eris
underground


Registered: 11/17/98
Posts: 48,024
Loc: North East, USA
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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Agreed, they don't look anything like liberty caps. More like panaeolus species. As for the other unknowns, take a spore print or at least be more precise on a description. Taking pictures of a random bunch of mixed species of mushrooms is not a reliable way to get any kind of identification on them. Spore prints are a no brainier, so why not just create one ahead of time to save people on here time.
-------------------- Immortal / Temporarily Retired The OG Thread Killer My mushroom hunting gallery
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MisterSativa
Long-term Psychonaut

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 9
Loc: the northern hemisphere
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Re: be careful [Re: eris]
#5367348 - 03/05/06 01:10 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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these supposed *liberty caps* were growing around the cow shit, not directly in it. although, i remember that the cluster of 3 (shown above) was infact in a patty, on the edge i think..maybe just by chance?
i found them near the coast where it is always cold this time of year, never warm. the sporeprint will be finished this evening, i will post pictures.
i looked up a lot more pictures of liberty caps and it seems they vary from a darker brown to this tannish color (different climate=different color???). i think these mushrooms were not very old, as a lot of them are pretty small and still have slightly closed caps.
as for the stems being too thick, these are closeup pictures...most of the stems are really skinny. the yellow one(s) (bottom picture) were growing in the general area i found the *liberty caps*...im making a sporeprint of these too.
thanks again!!!!!!!!
-------------------- Life's a bitch, and then you die. I frequently practice meditation via self induced psychedelic therapy in order to achieve a perpetuating state of expansion of personal consciousness.
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eris
underground


Registered: 11/17/98
Posts: 48,024
Loc: North East, USA
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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Quote:
i looked up a lot more pictures of liberty caps and it seems they vary from a darker brown to this tannish color (different climate=different color???).
It depends on moisture. It will start out dark brownish and fade to a straw like color the dryer it gets. This is common in the psilocybe genus, as well as others like psathyrella for example.
I would speculate that the spore print on your specimens (the first species in your photo series) will come out to be black, since they look like panaeolus.
-------------------- Immortal / Temporarily Retired The OG Thread Killer My mushroom hunting gallery
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shroominDole
Stranger


Registered: 12/19/05
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Loc: O.C . S o. C a l .
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Re: mushrooms from a cow field [Re: MisterSativa]
#5367941 - 03/05/06 04:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Good call Todosmentira y eiris....Definitely the Panaeolus sphinctrinus-papilionaceus-campanulatus-retirugis........I'm dizzy... group-complex.....some would argue Sphinctrinus some Papilonaceus maybe even Campanulatus....but for arguments sake lets say Sphinctrinus. This mushroom and friends is responsible for decades of debate on which is called what and there "activity".....not to mention the extended debate (like this sentence) ....over its now incorrect identification as the famous "Teonanacatl" of pre columbian central America which turns out to be a Psilocybe and not a Panaeolus.....the key here other than black spores and habitat is that little white ring (partial veil) around the bottom of the cap along its edge(margin) in the first picture of the young shroom then as the cap opens and starts to expand...(great pics by the way)...in picture 2, it leaves behind the "teeth" (appendiculate)(veil remnants) on the cap edge(margin) so characteristic of this mushroom and characteristic of the whole complex. The teeth can be highly variable from each cluster(cow pie for instance) where u can have 8 mushrooms in cluster and only one mushroom exhibit the teeth...does that mean all the others are a different name....???....the lack of teeth dont always mean lack of a partial veil....All species in this "complex" can have teeth( appendiculate) but may be missing from mushroom to mushroom in each cluster.....much of the argument (macroscopically) for seperating has also been on another highly variable characteristic...cap color and texture.. which could be warranted in the case of retirugus? Much of the way of thinking today is that P.sphinctrinus is definately a distinct species and many are throwing the others into a P papilinaceus "complex" and then ripping these two groups up (seperating into varieties)from there....As a result of all this what really is the true "type" species of Panaeolus?.....P.campanulatus var. sphinctrinus....or P. sphinctrinus var. campanulatus....or....P. campanulatus....or....now Im really dizzy.....your mushroom at the bottom picture is Agrocybe pediades or as close as your goin to get here without a microscope.... not "active" and good to eat, but way too many poison look alikes!) common in cities, yards, fields, woods, grassy areas and oh ya....CRAP!... especially on a day with the cows....when you get home, dont forget to check the bottom of your feet for shrooms before you walk in the house...I get em popping up in my rug ever once ina while after someones spilled a drink...kinda like Johnny(road)Appleseed....if your wondering about activity of these Panaeolus look up Ola'h, G.M...I believe 1970......and so the debate continues.........
Edited by shroominDole (03/07/06 11:24 PM)
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Mister Salvia,
Psilopcybe strictipes and Psilocybe sierrae both resemble liberty caps macroscopically and both grow in cow pies int he same fields as Psilocybe semilanceata.
All three can be referred to as liberty caps in the same way that Psilocybe stuntzii and Psilocybe fiemtaria are referred to as 'blue ringers.'
Panaeolus papilionaceyus is a psychoactive psilocybian mushroom while Panaeolus sphinctrinus is not, the latter was a false positive on t several ocassions and int he original Schultes Reko collections originaally looked at by the late Rolf Singer of the Chicago Museum of natural Hostory, found several specimens of Psilocybe mexicana intheir collection. Thus why the Panaeolus was once thought to be the teonanacatl of the Aztec, Olmecs and toltecs.
Here are two mushrooms with geared cap edges, or teeth as you referred to them, both different species.











All of the above images are of panaeolus sphinctrinus in various stages of their growth and develop,emt.
A single species can have many variations in the caps and in the stems. Various sizes, bands of colored rings on the caps, carious color changes,e tc. Therefore non-mycologists have a lot of confusion in that specie.
Even Copelandia species, given the right envionmental conditions can have rings or bands (zones) of color ont he caps. SOme have a veil remnant and again may not. SOme of the same specie can have both.
mj
checl oput the variations I have posted
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MisterSativa
Long-term Psychonaut

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 9
Loc: the northern hemisphere
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alright....so the sporeprint from the suspected tan mushrooms turned out BLACK...and the sporeprint from the yellow mushroom was RUSTY-BROWN. here are the pictures............
 ^^^all 4 prints. bottom cap is the yellow mushroom. other 3 are tan ones (whatever these may be)
 ^^^ tan mushroom sporeprint
 ^^^yellow mushroom sporeprint
any new ideas??? any more questions???
im looking into finding some "METOL" at a store around here to see if that process does anything. it says to mix 1 part metol with 20 parts water and put a stem in it and if it turns blue then its a psilocybe mushroom. is this worth it?? does anyone know if it works????
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MisterSativa
Long-term Psychonaut

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 9
Loc: the northern hemisphere
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i just looked up a bunch of pics of a bunch of different species. panaeolus papilionaceus and panaeolus sphinctrinus are most like the mushrooms i gathered. but which one? they both look REALLY similar. im almost totally sure theyre P.papilionaceus...just from looking at my mushrooms a lot. can anyone tell the difference????? thanks
will the yellow mushrooms presense in the bag of good mushrooms ruin them or contaminate them at all? should i remove the yellow mushrooms ASAP, or just at my convience? because right now is not convienent. i dont think theyll hurt them because the yellow mushrooms are neutral
Edited by MisterSativa (03/05/06 11:36 PM)
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eris
underground


Registered: 11/17/98
Posts: 48,024
Loc: North East, USA
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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The "yellow one" as you call it, does not appear to be an active.
Quote:
will the yellow mushrooms presense in the bag of good mushrooms ruin them or contaminate them at all? should i remove the yellow mushrooms ASAP, or just at my convience? because right now is not convienent. i dont think theyll hurt them because the yellow mushrooms are neutral
As a general rule, it is not wise to put several different species in the same bag - as this could possibly lead to not being able to separate them from each other. Especially in the case of smaller ones that could resemble another species in your bag or whatever. There are also many other factors to consider that could potentially cause you to confuse them for being the same. An ideal way would be to bag each collection individually. By species anyways. I usually put different things in the same bag, if I'm not planning on eating anything. If I see something that i suspect may be an edible that i want to try, I put it in its own bag.
-------------------- Immortal / Temporarily Retired The OG Thread Killer My mushroom hunting gallery
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Shrum821
Shrumed Out


Registered: 11/04/04
Posts: 299
Loc: Fuckin Texas
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: be careful [Re: eris]
#5370280 - 03/06/06 09:49 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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None of your mushrooms are active, and dont waste your time with metol. Look for blue brusing, which your mushrooms don't have.
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Shrum821
Shrumed Out


Registered: 11/04/04
Posts: 299
Loc: Fuckin Texas
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: be careful [Re: Shrum821]
#5370285 - 03/06/06 09:50 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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And I dont know if a cowfield is where you should be looking considering your location. Here in Texas on the other hand.....cowfields are heaven.
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MisterSativa
Long-term Psychonaut

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 9
Loc: the northern hemisphere
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Re: be careful [Re: Shrum821]
#5371930 - 03/06/06 06:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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alright then...nevermind those.
thanks for the help. i guess ill trash these guys lol
-------------------- Life's a bitch, and then you die. I frequently practice meditation via self induced psychedelic therapy in order to achieve a perpetuating state of expansion of personal consciousness.
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sui
I love you.


Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,853
Loc: Cali, Contra Costa Co.
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the season in cali is over dawg. 
subbs might be out in a few but the season for this year is over.
and thats beside the point cow fields are just not the place to hunt in this area. I live in the bay too, look in woodchips in the fall.
-------------------- "There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix
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ToxicMan
Bite me, it's fun!


Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 6,722
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
Last seen: 23 minutes, 17 seconds
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Don't bother with the Metol.
Although it is a test that can help, Metol itself is extremely toxic. Nothing that has any Metol on it should be eaten.
There are plenty of reliable methods for identifying mushrooms that don't require the use of dangerously poisonous chemicals.
Happy mushrooming!
-------------------- Happy mushrooming!
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shroominDole
Stranger


Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 482
Loc: O.C . S o. C a l .
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Re: be careful [Re: ToxicMan]
#5389758 - 03/11/06 04:53 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hey Mr.Sat....I noticed by reading your reply it appears you might of missed you had two replys on the ID of your shrooms....one was a basic ID and the other was a virtual picto-bibliography MJ laid out for your mushrooms....illustrating so many of the extremes in color, sizes, shapes, stages, and identifying features of this highly complex and diverse group....pictures in this case can be worth a trillion words in identification....notice how he included a picture (6th down from the top) thats a virtual clone of your first picture....(angle and every thing)....wish I had that when I was learning..(still am)....on your spore prints (nice ones)...the one of Agrocybe pediades...isnt considered rusty (hard to tell sometimes) especially with white paper....the thing to look for is the darkest parts of the print like the outside edges on yours....that is what youd call a brown-deep brown-tobacco brown (always interesting to see different authors interpretations)....and though cant you cant get poisoned by handling a poison mushroom or having it come in contact with ones you intend to eat.... but as EIRIS stated (worth reading again) never mix mushrooms you dont know with ones you might intend to eat cause of the possible confusion, and pieces of mushrooms fall into others....some one also mentioned bluing...a mushroom does NOT have to bruise blue to be active....especially in this group and Panaeolus subbalteatus complex....as far as activity mushrooms can be highly variable from one cluster to another one on the other side of the pasture or up the trail a little ways for the same species....having to eat anywhere from a few to a few thousand(actively dead!)(kiddiiing..one should never ingest toxic mushrooms!)....for more on the "activity" of this group....read....(Heim, Wasson 1958)..(Hoffman, Heim, Tscherter 1963)..(Tyler, V.E., Jr. & Groger, D. 1964 In: Journal of Pharmaceutical Sciences v.53(4)..(Ola'h 1970).
-------------------- Worlds Largest 'Liberty Cap' (Cali Libs Confirmed !) ' Comments On Hallucinogenic Agarics And The Hallucinations Of Those Who Study Them ' Alexander H. Smith Mycologia vol.69 1977
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4skin
Azurescens Pimp


Registered: 03/11/06
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Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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I wouldn't touch either of thoose. If it doesnt bruse purple or blue throw it away and forget about it!!!!!!!
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