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InvisibleRogues_Pierre
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Canada backs Sikh dagger rights
    #5361179 - 03/03/06 11:04 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Canada backs Sikh dagger rights

Canadian Sikhs should be allowed to wear small daggers central to their faith when they go to school, the country's Supreme Court has ruled.

In an 8-0 judgement, the court reversed the ruling of a Montreal school board, which banned Gurbaj Singh Multani from wearing his dagger, known as a kirpan.

The kirpan is deemed sacred by Sikhs as a symbol of power and truth.

School authorities banned the kirpan in 2001 after an objection by a parent concerned about pupil security.

Announcing the judgement, the Supreme Court said that a total ban on kirpans violated the country's Charter of Rights.

The charter guarantees total religious freedom within Canada.

Safety debate

"Religious tolerance is a very important value of Canadian society," Justice Louise Charron wrote in the judgement.

"If some students consider it unfair that Gurbaj Singh may wear his kirpan to school, it is incumbent on the schools to discharge their obligation to instil in their students this value that is... at the very foundation of our democracy."

The government of Quebec had backed the Montreal school board, which imposed the ban.

Parents campaigning for tighter restrictions on weapons in school were dismayed by the ruling.

"My first reaction as a parent is a feeling of insecurity," Claude Bouchard of the Quebec Federation of Parents' Committees, told Reuters news agency.

"As a parent, is the life and safety of a child more important than religious freedom? I think so."

Old tradition

The ruling did allow some restrictions to be imposed on kirpans worn in public, including limiting their length and keeping them sheathed and worn underneath clothes.

Nevertheless, Gurbaj Singh Multani, who was 12 when he was suspended and then removed from his school, welcomed the judgement.

"Everybody stood for their rights. I got it. I'm happy," he said outside the court.

Orthodox Sikhs have been required to carry kirpans since the 17th century, and insist it is not a weapon.

About 250,000 Sikhs live in Canada, with 10% considered orthodox.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4770744.stm


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InvisibleRogues_Pierre
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Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: Rogues_Pierre]
    #5361181 - 03/03/06 11:06 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)



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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: Rogues_Pierre]
    #5361207 - 03/03/06 11:19 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I see no problem with it...I am not aware of one instance in Canada where a Sikh student has used their kirpan as a weapon.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Offlineheidegger
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Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: Rogues_Pierre]
    #5361212 - 03/03/06 11:21 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

They don't need to be sharp, do they?


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: heidegger]
    #5361228 - 03/03/06 11:27 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Not to my understanding. They are merely ornamental, sort of like those cheap knock off samurai swords....for display purposes only.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineRiverMan
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Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: heidegger]
    #5362310 - 03/03/06 05:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I saw the kid on tv rubbing his fingers against the edge of the blade. It did not seem to be sharp at all. I don't know about the Sikhs in general though...

I also do not have any problem with the Supreme Court decision. People against it seem to talk about the need to have secular schools. I agree, but we shouldn't refrain people from embracing their beliefs if it does not go against the other people's fundamental rights.

Soon, another decision regarding muslim veils should go the same way as this one. Hey, a veil is hardly as dangerous a weapon as a dagger in my books!


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: Rogues_Pierre]
    #5363043 - 03/03/06 09:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

So would a non-muslim not be allowed to carry it on campus?

I would sneak my pocket knife with me to school in elementry. Fun.


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InvisibleRogues_Pierre
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Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: DieCommie]
    #5370070 - 03/06/06 08:15 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)



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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: DieCommie]
    #5370086 - 03/06/06 08:22 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
So would a non-muslim not be allowed to carry it on campus?




Not unless they belonged to a "real" religion (as opposed to a cult) which was registered with the govt and which required its members to wear such a knife.

It's similar to the clause about Peyote being legal for use in certain church sacraments. I'm not a registered member of that faith, so I couldn't use it as an excuse if I wanted to take Peyote. For anyone who is a member, they can take it as part of their faith.

Freedom of religion is a very important part of society here.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineJ4S0N
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Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: DieCommie]
    #5370201 - 03/06/06 09:15 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"non-muslim"

Just because someone has brown skin doesn't mean they are muslim.. haha

You do realize that Sikhism is a religion?


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: J4S0N]
    #5370535 - 03/06/06 11:34 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

J4S0N said:You do realize that Sikhism is a religion?


I do now  :thumbup:


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: trendal]
    #5370541 - 03/06/06 11:35 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:Freedom of religion is a very important part of society here.


I interpret it as denying freedom to the non-religious.  Not cool  :thumbdown:


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: DieCommie]
    #5370598 - 03/06/06 11:49 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The difference being is the reason why a non-religious person would bring a knife to school.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: Rono]
    #5370662 - 03/06/06 12:07 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

ahhh, so a right is only a right if you have a good reason (per the govt.) for exercising it (religion being one of them).

maybe its just me, but that seems contrary to the basic principle of "rights".


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: DieCommie]
    #5370679 - 03/06/06 12:12 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"ahhh, so a right is only a right if you have a good reason"

Now exchange "right" for "Privilege"


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: Rono]
    #5370699 - 03/06/06 12:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The post says rights, not privilege.

Quote:

Canada backs Sikh dagger rights



Quote:

Announcing the judgement, the Supreme Court said that a total ban on kirpans violated the country's Charter of Rights.



Quote:

"Everybody stood for their rights. I got it. I'm happy," he said outside the court.




Clearly they think its a right, not a privilege.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: DieCommie]
    #5370709 - 03/06/06 12:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

According to Canadian law it is a religious right...but on what grounds should a non-religious person have a 'right' to bring a weapon to school?


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: Rono]
    #5370727 - 03/06/06 12:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Rono said:
According to Canadian law it is a religious right...but on what grounds should a non-religious person have a 'right' to bring a weapon to school?


Is it a weapon? It was described as bieng ornamental.

But it appears we are back to the fact that "a right is only a right if you have a good reason".

Quote:

what grounds should a non-religious person have a 'right' to bring a weapon to school?


The same grounds that the Sikh has, its a right.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: DieCommie]
    #5370759 - 03/06/06 12:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

That's the difference though...It is a "right" in Canada because even though we are not a religious country, we respect religious freedom (within reason of course) and having a kid bring a dull, ornamental knife to school because it is part of his beliefs is completly within reason.
If it was a sharp knife that could actually be used to cut or slash, then I may have an issue with it...if a non-religious person decided that they wanted to carry a dull, ornamental knife to school, I would have no problem with...but would question their motives.

Make sense?


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Canada backs Sikh dagger rights [Re: Rono]
    #5371181 - 03/06/06 03:03 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Thats what I have been saying all along. The non-religious persons motives, imo, would be to exert the fact that non-religious people have the same rights as those who are religious.


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