Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
OfflineImperialCactus
Stranger

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 532
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Ability to maintain effects from altered states while sober?
    #5345009 - 02/27/06 11:53 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Let me start by saying i'm sorry if this is in the wrong forum, not real sure which one is best for this post. Also hoping this isn't a stupid question or impossible to answer, but I'd really like to gain a better understanding of this and I don't know where else to look or ask. Seems that there are some very intelligent and wise people who post here, so hopefully someone will be able to get me pointed in the right direction at least.

Anyways, to the point. Guess I should describe my problem first, which is that I have a very hard time being social, and expressing myself in general. I don't really like being around large groups of people, but I wouldn't say it's serious enough that I may have a social anxiety problem... although I probably should remain open to that possibility. It's mainly that I don't make good first impressions, and a lot of times just can't seem to find the words to effectively communicate with others. This can make me look really weird or strange at times and that's probably putting it lightly. While i'm sure things could be much worse, this negatively affects several different aspects of my life.

Besides being very difficult to meet new people and become friends with them, this also doesn't help with getting hired and fitting in at a job. I have a hard time with participating in college classes too when I should be asking questions and I end up avoiding others when working with them could be very helpful at times. No matter how much I want to I just can't seem to initiate conversation or express myself as effectively as i'd like to. Even with the few good friends I have, it's still difficult to converse and express myself at times. So this whole thing really bothers me, seems to make my life more difficult than it needs to be and I think it contributes to me being depressed as well. I'm fairly certain that I would be much happier and better off if this wasn't such a problem for me.

Now, when I am in certain altered states, mainly being on Ecstasy and something else i'm not sure I should mention, this isn't a problem at all. Hell, sometimes I even talk too much. I would think Alcohol may help as well, but i'm not really into drinking. As for the something else, i'm thinking that because it puts me in a more relaxed, comfortable state that may have something to do with it, but I can't really be sure... and this is no where near as effective as Ecstasy is. While on that I have no problem thinking of what I want to say, and expressing myself perfectly. I feel that I can understand and see things exactly as they are, and at times things can make more sense then I ever thought possible. Guess you could say I just feel normal, or that normal should be like that. Everything seems to come naturally and it seems like it should always be that easy. I hope it doesn't sound like i'm expecting too much here, I realize it can be considered an altered state for a reason... things will be different and of course being sober can't possibly be the same. Not like I want to feel as good as one does on Ecstasy all the time, or have any other very prolonged effects. But it seems that certain things should still be possible, such as communication skills and things that are an important part of being sober as well.

So, here's the part I don't get. I don't see how any drugs can give you the ability to do something that you aren't normally capable of. I don't think they create the subject matter and feelings that I am suddenly able to express. All of that has to already be there, and maybe it just makes it easier to do all of that stuff. I mean, I can kinda see how altering Serotonin and things like that will alter your perception and allow you to think and act from a different perspective... but the exact workings of that and how certain drugs affect you is a bit over my head and beyond my understanding at the moment. I just can't believe that it's all the drugs causing that and that the same thing isn't possible while sober. So, I guess what i'm asking is the only way to accomplish that really through drug use, or is there another way? I obviously can't and don't want to use drugs that often and just to feel normal... and I have a hard time believing that's the only way... although I have no idea how else this is possible.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredtailedhawk
Explorer of the Mystery
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 559
Loc: The Old Continent
Re: Ability to maintain effects from altered states while sober? [Re: ImperialCactus]
    #5345199 - 02/27/06 12:53 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Take the night off, sit in a safe, dark & quite place, close your eyes, take the MDMA and meditate on your social anxiety. Also Beyond Anxiety & Phobia book is highly recommended. You will get better in time. Don't worry.


--------------------

"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineImperialCactus
Stranger

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 532
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Ability to maintain effects from altered states while sober? [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #5347031 - 02/27/06 08:30 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks, I will definitely check out that book. I'm still not sure i'd call it social anxiety, that almost sounds too extreme but I wouldn't really know what else it may be either... maybe a mild case of that compared to how bad others can have it. I mean, I don't like groups but if I have to give a speech or something i'm usually fine as long as i'm well prepared. It's stuff like first impressions and conversations where I can't really prepare for it that gives me so many problems. I do have a more introspective personality but feel it goes further then that as well, and in a bad way.

Other thing is i'm not so sure I want to do Ecstasy again, maybe I will eventually but man do I feel like crap now after taking some last night. Not so sure that it's worth it anymore, although the meditation is a good idea. Guess i'll try it straight for now, thanks again for the advice. I guess time will tell.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Ability to maintain effects from altered states while sober? [Re: ImperialCactus]
    #5347617 - 02/27/06 10:58 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

You have to really integrate those experiences or they won't have any effect on your life. If left undigested you can have these memories of an alternate state floating in the back of your mind casting doubt on normal life, but if you can connect the dots from normality to rolling and back again you have enlarged your world. Remember, drugs only open the doors, it takes work to go through them. The ultimate goal is to have no duality between states but a smooth flow from one to the other so insights can be kept. Perhaps think about the fact that getting high, tripping and rolling are not seperate worlds, but different realities manifested from one universal super-structure. Their is continuity among all of your experiences and I think if you can find it you can start to bring the peak experiences into everyday life.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Ability to maintain effects from altered states while sober? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #5349705 - 02/28/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

The words are not to be found my friend.

They are dynamic and ever changing and based upon your current situation, but they are always the RIGHT words.

You know exactly what you need to say to people. You know exactly what you want to say people. But you don't.

Trust yourself and speak truth, do not water down what you have to say and do not second guess your intentions.

You WILL find someone who will accept you no matter what it is you say to them or how you express, so therefore the goal is to not to attempt to put on a social mask and speak with false pretenses, but rather to speak your mind and your heart completely and openly.

Accept those that reject you as lessons on how not to be, and be grateful for those who listen.

I will give you an example.

I am in class. Anti-drug banter starts, as people like to use drugs as an example of behaviors that are dangerous for various psych classes.

Immediately something someone says instills a remark in me that I wish to express....... I suppress that remark and anxiety forms.
Extreme anxiety. It all comes from CENSORING YOURSELF.

Listen to me good and well, the only thing censoring yourself does is create social anxiety. Do you want to be the voice that leads you to liberation, or the voice that shuts down every pure and good idea you ever had because it thinks "it's stupid.... they wouldn't care.... why bother saying it? people will think I'm weird."

It is not hard.

It is the easiest thing in the world. all you must do is strip your expectations. Do not expect to find a girlfriend..... in doing so you create anxiety by talking to girls. Expect rather to just talk to human beings. In doing so it is easy to talk to girls, and if you are to have a girlfriend you have opened up the door to find one.

You can. You can easily. The next time you want to say something, DON'T SAY IT IN YOUR HEAD.... say it with your mouth.

Express.

One other exercise that works very well..... is free-flow typing... I am typing right now and just as soon as I get an idea of what I want to say to you.... I type it. I do not go back and revise... I only hit backspace to correct mistakes or sentences that are not real, that need to be re-translated to convey what I am expressing.

But I am expressing to you, and I am doing it without censoring myself. I worry that I come off a certain way, condescending, loony, schizo, enlightened..... a Buddha or a Jesus or a Buddha wanna be....

but this is my advice and so I give it to you because it is true for me... and I give it without censorship.

Do not be a censor!

It is not hard at all. Censorship is what creates social anxiety, nothing more, nothing less.

I really hope that this post helps you out. You are right that drugs show you what it is like to be uncesored. But DO NOT USE THEM ANY MORE until you can apply SOME of the lessons you learned into your sober life.

Marijuana seems to be a good median to give you that little nudge you need if you smoke it once in a while.... but seriously...... if you're taking E just to communicate with people... you aren't taking E at all. Enjoy taking E. Love every second of it and be safe doing it. But don't let the you under the influence of E be the only you that can communicate.

Follow your coincidences, they will lead you into opportunities ripe for practicing socialization in neutral and friendly cotnexts.

If you see someone that strikes your eye, just say hi. It doesn't matter what you say, maybe say something deliberately odd, just be true.

The words are there. They are always there. They are formless and created when you understand and embrace that there is a right moment to speak to someone. As soon as you recognize that there is a right moment to speak to someone, do it. Be sincere. The words appear automatically without you having to premeditate them. Then you just say them.

Throw the expectations away, they only hinder your progress. You don't have to be social in groups, you don't have to have tons of friends. Just find what works.

Just follow your intuition.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (02/28/06 02:31 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineQuoiyaien
><<<<0>>>><
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 1,409
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Ability to maintain effects from altered states while sober? [Re: leery11]
    #5350830 - 02/28/06 07:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Leery11 :thumbup: :thumbup:

It doesnt sound like a problem to me.  It just sounds like you are shy.  I am shy, so I learned to speak through a guitar.  Now I play professionally and teach.  If people think i'm weird, let them think it.  I am a musician.  If I wasn't weird, then I'd be worried.  Weird is just outside the social norm.  Diamonds are rare.  Are they weird?  Just be yourself man, its the only person you can be. 

:heart:Peace:heart:

:hippie:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineImperialCactus
Stranger

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 532
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Ability to maintain effects from altered states while sober? [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #5351196 - 02/28/06 09:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Thank you for the replies everyone. I now have a lot to think about, more so than usual anyways. Some very good points here, especially the bit about integrating those experiences and also censorship. I didn't really notice how much I do that even in my writing until that was mentioned. I wasn't keeping track exactly, but it probably took me around an hour to write that first post, from constantly re-reading it and making small changes.

One thing i'm still not so sure about is that I always know what I want or need to say. Maybe that's just me doubting myself, or maybe it isn't always such a bad thing to begin with... provided it isn't real important for the situation.

As for the drugs, I don't think I want to do E anymore. It's nice and all, but don't think it's really what i'm looking for, or as helpful as it may have seemed at first. The negatives may outweigh the positives with that one, for me at least. I've found that Marijuana makes it harder to socialize and communicate effectively, but I let myself smoke too much for the past year or two. So I no longer do that, especially while looking for a job but I may start again at some point in the future, definitely in moderation though. I do think it can be useful in moderation, it's just easy to get carried away with at times.

I also really liked the diamonds analogy, lots of good points made here. I am shy, that's for sure but it's hard to say if it really is more than that or not. This thread has given me more to think about and helped to sort this out a bit more. Thanks again for the responses and advice.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Ability to maintain effects from altered states while sober? [Re: ImperialCactus]
    #5352571 - 03/01/06 07:50 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Well I mean I don't know how your brain works, but if I have something to say an entire sentence will be ready to go in a second or less...

otherwise I just sit around completely silent because nothing I say is really worth speaking about.

So it really comes down to..... is the person you're talking to worth talking to at this moment in time? If the answer is no then that's where awkward silences come in and you have to bullshit and be all like "so...................................... what's your major?" like you really care what their major is.

But you know say you just see someone really neat and you have something pressing you'd like to say to them. For me a girl wearing a curious shirt sparked an easy conversation that..... normally I wouldn't even ever approach a girl randomly. I almost didn't but then I thought to myself "dude do you want your life to be better or worse?" so I talked to her.

I mean like right now when you read my post, don't you have a few things that immediately jump into your head that you want to say in response to me? Maybe not, but if I pulled the right strings you'd instantly know in your mind what you want to say to reply, and you don't have to think too much or force it.

It's a pretty complex thing that I just recently realized that I understand, but I don't really know how to explain it yet and have to play with it more. It's basically like we have scripts already written about how to interact with EVERY type of person conceivable, we just need the right stimuli to provoke the loading of the scripts into the conscious brain ready to be spoken.
[much of it is probably in our heads because of fantasies and day-dreams]


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineImperialCactus
Stranger

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 532
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Ability to maintain effects from altered states while sober? [Re: leery11]
    #5352987 - 03/01/06 10:12 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Hmm... well as I read your post it seems that I naturally tend to think more about what your saying than what i'm going to say in response. But your right, sometimes i'll immediately think of something to say, other times i'll come up with something after I think about it enough, or maybe even not at all. Just depends on what you say exactly.

If I think it's a waste of time to talk, or try to talk to someone then I usually don't bother and it's not a problem. If it truly is a waste of time then it probably isn't important and doesn't matter if we converse or not, although if someone speaks directly to me of course i'll respond. Along with other things, it may be that I lack the social skills needed to be good with this stuff, and while that may be gained through practice and experience you have to start somewhere. It should be easy, but for some reason it usually isn't.

As for the last thing you said, it made me think of a computer program right away. Probably because of the specific wording you used, and me having experience in programming. The idea sounds very much like an insanely large, complex program for social interaction in our brain. It makes more sense in terms of programming to me than anything else, as even though it doesn't seem possible to actually write a program like that, i'm sure our brains are capable of such things. Only thing that really confuses me is that since everyone is unique and life is so dynamic, you'd be talking about a seemingly infinite amount of data, or understanding we posses in being able to interact with others. Even though you could find many similarities or set patterns that's still a lot to be capable of... and then I think of different languages and how some people will perceive things in completely different ways than others.

Well, i'm probably thinking too much and starting to ramble a bit, i'll just say that the mind most likely works in very complex ways, and that could explain the need for such specific stimuli. If you don't have a perfect understanding of it, i'm probably way off and very unlikely to make much sense of it at this point. Thanks for the continued responses, i'm surprised this thread hasn't fallen back to the second or third page by now. I'm used to pretty much killing a thread the second I make a post in other forums.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepuwtrip
spirit molecule

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 203
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Ability to maintain effects from altered states while sober? [Re: ImperialCactus]
    #5357306 - 03/02/06 12:37 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

leery offers some great concepts.

the first thing that came to mind when you said you dont make good first impressions is that 1)you are too hard on yourself 2)you communicate with people you value more than yourself 3)your idea of first impressions is limiting you

how to improve:

find ways to validate what i said. first, commmunicate to get information (a valuble currency), not to have outcomes.

when you know you have suffered a "bad" first impression, go out there and prove that even with a bad impression, you can do whatever you want. suprise the other person.

communicate with people you normally wouldn't

point out the obvious in your conversations, poke fun, or try to be a different character

go by the facts of the situation (reality) and not your head. be logical dont let your emotions over-run you.

learn to value yourself more than others.

solidify your expectations of yourself and your "who am i". just always be confident in yourself, not your abilities (you can always learn new things, but trust yourself)

dont dismiss emotions: get in touch with yourself. ex: you're feeling nervous, dont say " i feel good". that is a lie. tell yourself: i'm nervous, my heart is beating fast, i am anxious beacause of ..... (identify what makes you feel like what) A good thign for me is to ask: "How do I feel [my name]?" whenever I am wiered out or in a bad mental state. But dont answer right away, go into your body for a second, feel it, and then talk about it. I do this every chance I get. Monitor your breathing in this state, and feel tenseness in your body. Dont deny emotions!

just do things have a good time and try new things. it seems hard in the mental state, but if you force it, becomes easier.

dont seek approval from others, you are jsut as worthy if not better.


have fun man! open your eayes, your heart, and PRACTICE! drugs might open your mind, consiousness will keep it open.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Mushroom effect on eyes? Astral22 295 2 05/08/21 09:31 PM
by Astral22
* Can't stay sober swm 1,307 2 09/21/03 12:20 PM
by Adden
* I JUST GAVE IN
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
Anonymous 16,241 159 12/28/04 08:19 PM
by efreesearch
* What is ailing me?....... (LONG) GringoLoco 2,895 13 04/29/03 01:18 PM
by Gog
* Depression and Medication Northernsoul 2,427 8 03/24/03 02:51 PM
by billbraski
* No longer need drugs to feel good
( 1 2 all )
silversoul7 5,583 29 05/06/03 11:40 PM
by tak_old
* The Girl.. the Weed... the Problem... ( updated, finished )
( 1 2 3 4 all )
PooPs 15,917 79 06/05/03 12:50 PM
by PooPs
* Liposuction...
( 1 2 all )
LeViTY 4,299 36 11/04/20 07:21 AM
by AlisonWilson

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: CherryBom, Rose, mndfreeze, yogabunny, feevers, CookieCrumbs, Northerner
1,520 topic views. 0 members, 2 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.03 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 15 queries.