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OfflineKerr
Who else would I be

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1,611
Loc: My roots in the Koots
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Ryan's Pepper garden
    #5353323 - 03/01/06 12:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)
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MOD EDIT: Ryan, you just happen to run into the one moderator who thinks Capsicum sp. is an ethnobotanical medicine as well as a psychoactive, since the local sensation produces release of pleasurable neuroactives. This thread can stay here if Neuro is OK with it too.


Well some of you may know that this will be my first year at small scale farming. I have chosen to stick with one type of crop for the majority of my garden, but some smaller ones may be added at a later time.
Hot Peppers with Scovillle units at approx 90,000 will be processed into medicinal and culinary products and also be sold as fresh or dried fruit and seeds.  Scoville units

I have some concerns with the actual garden itself. The Okanagan is dry, the soil is crap where I live and we dint have a well, so you can see that water conservation is my number one concern.
The soil is mostly clay but I knew that already from the years of planting other crops in the woods :smirk:
I know that I am going to be amending with manure and other compost, adding some sunshine mix or like for good drainage and water retention.
Does anyone have any good natural water retention methods? ie:polymers, but something that is organic, I will be also enrolling in the organic certification program in BC.
I will be mulching like crazy as we always do here, anyone have a particular type of mulch that they find works best? I have been reading that black plastic is a good idea for young plants, anyone have a comment on that. I have always just used lawn clippings or natural grasses.
Has anyone ever heard of Waterlok? A rep came to one of our IPM conferences a couple years back, its a type of volcanic rock used for soil water retention.  Waterlok

Here is a plan that I had made up for the garden setup.

Fencing - recycled and foraged posts
-angled out to deter deer
-posts ~ every 6 feet apart, 2 stringers running horizontal.
-chicken wire wrapped and put few feet under surface for marmots and like.
-simple wooden gate with metal hinges and some latching mechanism.
-morning glory every so often to cover the entire fence
-possibility of shade screen on hot days for water conservation.

Watering ? via drip line from underground barrels
-rubbermaid bins or the like, dug under ground
-attaching valve system for each line to each row.
-tank is located above the garden for gravity fed application.
-irrigation lines are trenched at ~ 2? deep.

Soil ? soil tested for ph and nutrient levels.
?land tilled, rocks and vegetation removed.
-depending on soil conditions, amendments will be added as needed.
-the use of promix in situations where soil is less than ideal.
-manures, compost and other organic amendments will be used in the production of  crops.
- black plastic mulch used for seedlings for water conservation and protection from pests.
-a thick mulch layer will be used for water conservation, ie: lawn clippings or bark and wild grasses.
-level ground as much as possible, may end up as beds or terraces.
- Planks for walking between rows used.

Pest control ? organic products, ie: pyrethrins, neem, soaps and deterrents.
-deterrent plants will include nasturtiums, marigold (French), chrysanthemums (cineraruaefolium for sprays and others for the bees), lemon balm and basil.

One of my other concern is the angle of the land that I have chosen, the parcel that we are on is basically a huge hill, so this was the flattest spot that I could find.
Has anyone had any experience with angled gardens, terraced or raised beds in such situations. I have seen loads of vineyards grown on land much steeper than mine.

Here are some shots to show the gradient.







And a video of me from the center of the garden panning.

If anyone has any suggestions, let them fly, I am open to anything and everything. I will update this thread as the garden takes shape. I went up today and the ground is starting to get soft, shovels to come out soon :crazy:
Thanks for taking the time to read this and thanks for any response you may have. Peace friends :peace:


--------------------
"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser


Edited by Wiccan_Seeker (03/07/06 01:48 PM)


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Invisiblerod
Ψ
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 3,727
Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: Kerr]
    #5353399 - 03/01/06 12:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Good luck on your pepper garden, their one of my favorite things
in life. The hotter, the better. :thumbup:


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OfflineKerr
Who else would I be

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1,611
Loc: My roots in the Koots
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: rod]
    #5353451 - 03/01/06 12:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for the kind words :sun:


--------------------
"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser


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InvisibleaNeway2sayHooray
Cresley Wusher
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/07/05
Posts: 7,653
Loc: Orphic Trench
Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: Kerr]
    #5353535 - 03/01/06 01:07 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Wow,you live in a beautiful place man.Those mountains are great.

Good luck on your garden!


--------------------
Mad_Larkin said:  Death is just a thang.
:clementine:
MrJellineck said:  Profits, prophets. That's all you jews think about.
sheekle said: life is drugs... and music... and cat... :snowman:


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OfflineKerr
Who else would I be

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1,611
Loc: My roots in the Koots
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: aNeway2sayHooray]
    #5353597 - 03/01/06 01:25 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I really do love this place, everytime I leave, I always end up back here, it was meant to be, thanks for the kind words :sun:


--------------------
"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser


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Offlinethe man
still masked
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Registered: 08/12/99
Posts: 6,681
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Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: Kerr]
    #5354901 - 03/01/06 08:21 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

when you let peppers start to leves to droop a bit before water creates hotter peppers but probably smaller fruits and or less of them. somthing to keep in mind. quality vs. quantity


--------------------
And Moses Said "Let my mushrooms grow!"


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OfflineKerr
Who else would I be

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1,611
Loc: My roots in the Koots
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: the man]
    #5355407 - 03/01/06 10:05 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Great point, thanks for that, kind of like the rumor of letting marijuana plants dry a bit before harvest to allow more trichomes to form. Can anyone debunk this notion? :sun:


--------------------
"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser


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OfflineBooby
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Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 3,781
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: Kerr]
    #5356321 - 03/02/06 04:18 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RyanKerr said:


I have some concerns with the actual garden itself. The Okanagan is dry, the soil is crap where I live and we dint have a well, so you can see that water conservation is my number one concern.





Sometimes one can find used above-ground swimmingpools cheep for the hauling and I've considered using these for water storage. The major expense would be the building to house it and keep the critters out, and the roof to catch precipitation. At 7 gallons per cubic foot and 36 inch annual precipitation I figure a 20 foot round above-ground swimingpool will hold 9000 gallons which equals about 25 to 30 gallons/day for irrigation or personal use. As a bonus the pool could be used to raise fish (did you know those 20 cent silver goldfish at Walmart turn into koi?)

My experience with tilling sloping land is that the roto-tiller needs wheal extensions to keep it upright.


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OfflineKerr
Who else would I be

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1,611
Loc: My roots in the Koots
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: Booby]
    #5356889 - 03/02/06 10:03 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

RyanKerr said:


I have some concerns with the actual garden itself. The Okanagan is dry, the soil is crap where I live and we dint have a well, so you can see that water conservation is my number one concern.





Sometimes one can find used above-ground swimmingpools cheep for the hauling and I've considered using these for water storage. The major expense would be the building to house it and keep the critters out, and the roof to catch precipitation. At 7 gallons per cubic foot and 36 inch annual precipitation I figure a 20 foot round above-ground swimingpool will hold 9000 gallons which equals about 25 to 30 gallons/day for irrigation or personal use. As a bonus the pool could be used to raise fish (did you know those 20 cent silver goldfish at Walmart turn into koi?)

My experience with tilling sloping land is that the roto-tiller needs wheal extensions to keep it upright.




Thanks for the input Bobby, Im thinking that the larger above ground pools would be too large, but how about the small kiddie ones, build a small shelter around it. Most of the water that I use will be hauled in on my back, cant really rely on rain water here for too much during the middle of the season.
Thanks again for the help :sun:


--------------------
"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser


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Invisiblejmg5
deadicated
Male

Registered: 11/23/05
Posts: 635
Loc: miles above you
Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: Kerr]
    #5357241 - 03/02/06 12:21 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Lol, when I saw this thread I instantly thought

Brian Pepper's Garden?

Anyway, best of luck! :thumbup:


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OfflineKerr
Who else would I be

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1,611
Loc: My roots in the Koots
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: jmg5]
    #5357315 - 03/02/06 12:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Haha, thanks for that jmg :sun::peace:


--------------------
"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser


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Offlinepioneering_south
range
Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 144
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: Kerr]
    #5359186 - 03/02/06 07:39 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RyanKerr said:


Here is a plan that I had made up for the garden setup.

Fencing - recycled and foraged posts
-angled out to deter deer
-posts ~ every 6 feet apart, 2 stringers running horizontal.
-chicken wire wrapped and put few feet under surface for marmots and like.
-simple wooden gate with metal hinges and some latching mechanism.
-morning glory every so often to cover the entire fence
-possibility of shade screen on hot days for water conservation.

Watering ? via drip line from underground barrels
-rubbermaid bins or the like, dug under ground
-attaching valve system for each line to each row.
-tank is located above the garden for gravity fed application.
-irrigation lines are trenched at ~ 2? deep.

Soil ? soil tested for ph and nutrient levels.
?land tilled, rocks and vegetation removed.
-depending on soil conditions, amendments will be added as needed.
-the use of promix in situations where soil is less than ideal.
-manures, compost and other organic amendments will be used in the production of  crops.
- black plastic mulch used for seedlings for water conservation and protection from pests.
-a thick mulch layer will be used for water conservation, ie: lawn clippings or bark and wild grasses.
-level ground as much as possible, may end up as beds or terraces.
- Planks for walking between rows used.

Pest control ? organic products, ie: pyrethrins, neem, soaps and deterrents.
-deterrent plants will include nasturtiums, marigold (French), chrysanthemums (cineraruaefolium for sprays and others for the bees), lemon balm and basil Peace friends :peace:






GREAT PLAN! Nice spot, tooo...
I was just outside in my garden today.
Was turning over the soil, pulling weeds, transplanting some Iris bulbs, and try to chop away some roots with an axe.

Sometimes, it is really overwhelming when you think about all the work it's going to take.
You need to be in shape, and be pioneering, domineering, and engineering in all your ways. And of course among those things, you need a boat load of energy.

When you plan your garden work days, eat well, but small before hand..
Fruits, and some starch.
Then, drink lots of water while you're working, and piss on the open earth( to add nutes AND TO keep animals away)
Just be thinking about how all the hard work will pay off big time.. and be a relaxing thing to enjoy..

Don't garden for the wrong reasons and you will be fine. Garden for fun and you will ENJOY getting your ass kicked in the field.. sore hands and feet will no longer bother you, and the dirt under your fingernails will serve as a reminder where you've been.

Keep it real bro  :sun:


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OfflineKerr
Who else would I be

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1,611
Loc: My roots in the Koots
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: pioneering_south]
    #5359662 - 03/02/06 09:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

pioneering_south said:

GREAT PLAN! Nice spot, tooo...
I was just outside in my garden today.
Was turning over the soil, pulling weeds, transplanting some Iris bulbs, and try to chop away some roots with an axe.

Sometimes, it is really overwhelming when you think about all the work it's going to take.
You need to be in shape, and be pioneering, domineering, and engineering in all your ways. And of course among those things, you need a boat load of energy.

When you plan your garden work days, eat well, but small before hand..
Fruits, and some starch.
Then, drink lots of water while you're working, and piss on the open earth( to add nutes AND TO keep animals away)
Just be thinking about how all the hard work will pay off big time.. and be a relaxing thing to enjoy..

Don't garden for the wrong reasons and you will be fine. Garden for fun and you will ENJOY getting your ass kicked in the field.. sore hands and feet will no longer bother you, and the dirt under your fingernails will serve as a reminder where you've been.

Keep it real bro  :sun:




Wow, just wow, thanks for that :peace:. I do think at night sometimes about how much work its going to be. I have to pack alot of soil in, uphill, water, ugggh :confused:.

But your right, if I do it for the right reasons, then I will be ok. I am getting myself into good shape having to hike up the hill to get home at the end of the day, 10 minutes down on my bike, 1 hour hike up :sad:. But every time I get home I feel so great, I feel my body is getting in wonderful shape, my muscles are getting stronger and harder. Its getting easier everyday :grin:

Now the fun stuff begins though, I cant wait for the ground to finish thawing out, then I can get up there and do a soil test to see what I am working with.

Who has some good ideas for fencing, I dont have alot of money to spend on new posts, so I was thinking foraging from the woods and other such places. I was thinking of doing an outward angled fence instead of going tall to keep the deer out. Has anyone had any experience with this?

Anyway, thanks for everything everyone, you are really helping me along :peace::sun:


--------------------
"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser


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OfflineKerr
Who else would I be

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1,611
Loc: My roots in the Koots
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: Kerr]
    #5360002 - 03/02/06 11:15 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

http://wildlifestewards.4h.oregonstate.edu/pdfs/deer.pdf

This example of a deer fence is what I was thinking, anyone have experience with them?


--------------------
"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser


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OfflineBooby
Agent Mulder
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Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 3,781
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: Booby]
    #5360464 - 03/03/06 02:02 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:9000 gallons




...er...make that 900 gallons


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: Booby]
    #5362381 - 03/03/06 05:31 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

...er; No.. pi times r squared= roughly 10x10=100x3=300x 3'deep=@900cu'x7 gal/cu'=6300 gallons.

= @ 35 gallons/day for a six month growing season.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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Offlinepioneering_south
range
Registered: 02/27/06
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Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: Kerr]
    #5363154 - 03/03/06 10:05 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Thx bro, back at ya :mushroom2: You sound like you will make it happen. Maybe not as big as you planned,
don't plan so big it's outside your grasp... I always started small.

.. It's slightly unfortunate your spot is that far away from easy access... I garden a ton, but I only use a space of about maybe 200x200 feet.
Basically I don't have time for it. But when I am not on the job, or hanging out, you better bet I will be enjoying a hobby like mycology or gardening or reading( etc)
Watering and fencing, hmm, problems I have never had to deal with, but I highly suggest using foraged items to cut down on production costs...
Things like scarecrows and animal scent sprays may be an alternative to fencing, but depending how bad the deer problem is it's up for grabs.

Watering... this is the main problem. I would highly suggest praying for a good rain season, and during the dry weeks busting ass to keep your plants alive with hand or tube watering... but it will still be a lot of work.

Oh man,
too much work at my 'real job', no time for what I love

Keep us updated


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OfflineKerr
Who else would I be

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1,611
Loc: My roots in the Koots
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: Booby]
    #5363322 - 03/03/06 10:46 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
...er; No.. pi times r squared= roughly 10x10=100x3=300x 3'deep=@900cu'x7 gal/cu'=6300 gallons.

= @ 35 gallons/day for a six month growing season.




Haha, that math blows me away, Im terrible at the stuff. So is for one of those kiddie style pools? :sun:

Quote:

pioneering_south said:
Thx bro, back at ya :mushroom2: You sound like you will make it happen. Maybe not as big as you planned,
don't plan so big it's outside your grasp... I always started small.

.. It's slightly unfortunate your spot is that far away from easy access... I garden a ton, but I only use a space of about maybe 200x200 feet.
Basically I don't have time for it. But when I am not on the job, or hanging out, you better bet I will be enjoying a hobby like mycology or gardening or reading( etc)
Watering and fencing, hmm, problems I have never had to deal with, but I highly suggest using foraged items to cut down on production costs...
Things like scarecrows and animal scent sprays may be an alternative to fencing, but depending how bad the deer problem is it's up for grabs.

Watering... this is the main problem. I would highly suggest praying for a good rain season, and during the dry weeks busting ass to keep your plants alive with hand or tube watering... but it will still be a lot of work.

Oh man,
too much work at my 'real job', no time for what I love

Keep us updated




Wow 200x200, thats a large garden, that makes me think I need to make mine bigger, I donno, Im so knew to this, I want things to work out right.

I have these day dreams of being a farmer someday, just doing that and only that, whatever I may be growing, and the thing is I am just living. Maybe someday I will be there, its a huge dream of mine, it seems like my purpose. I dint want to work at my job for the rest of my life.

But anyway onto the gardening, Im thinking that I will go with foraged posts, I was going to use the angled design in that .pdf. String some kind of line, or maybe chicken mesh.

I wish we could have a good rainy season, its just doesn't happen here, but its ok, I will put alot of time and thought into my soil and mulch to make sure that things retain water well enough. We have 3 water barrels here that we use to collect rain water.
Funny story, the other day when it was raining good and hard, I went and put them under the gutters. They filled up fast and the next day I checked them out and two of them where almost empty, I though what the hell. My stupid ass didn't realize that the taps on the bottom where open :confused:, it was raining so hard, I couldn't even tell.

But anyway to close this up, thanks to all that have helped me out here, it means alot. I am going to buy some seeds this weekend to go along with my home grown seeds.
What does everything think about using a cayenne pepper(rated at ~ 50,000 scoville units) and then adding some other hotter variety at something like 100,000 units, then combining them to make the tinctures. I was thinking I could save alot of money on seeds and still get good medicinal tinctures.
Anyway just a thought :grin:


--------------------
"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser


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OfflineKerr
Who else would I be

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1,611
Loc: My roots in the Koots
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: Kerr]
    #5364279 - 03/04/06 11:15 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Heres an update, its  10:15 Saturday morning, 3C already, going to be 8C in the middle of the day. Im grabbing my shovel and a cup of coffee and going to start diggin. I'll let ya know how it all went later on :peace:

Edit: Well duh, the air temp is 3, but the soil was still frozen, silly me :confused:. Ah well good intentions. But I did find something to do. I decided that I would try and level the ground out by making a retaining wall at the bottom. This would also help for any kind of soil slippage. Here are some pics of what I got done, I wanted to work longer but I have to work. I think I will drop my shift tomorrow and work a good while at it. :sun:











:peace:


--------------------
"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser


Edited by RyanKerr (03/04/06 01:18 PM)


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Offlinepioneering_south
range
Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 144
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: Ryan's Pepper garden [Re: Kerr]
    #5367338 - 03/05/06 01:06 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Hell ya ! we are on the same wave length. I will live in the country, with my hand built house, and hand tended garden, living off the land, and loving life, with a wonderful wife.
Of course that is an ideal, far from my immediate realizations.
You ought to think about tilling as soon as you can, the soil needs a bit of time to settle I think, before you plant.
Peppers are great, I grew cayenne peppers from the store last year, and then used the seeds for a second generation this year... started indoors about two months ago, I need a camera to show you my garden... I will work on that..

Yeah work, it sucks. I worked 90 hours this last two weeks. Barely time for anything fun...

Seems like a good idea with the retainer wall, you will have to let us know how it turns out


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