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Solidcell
tolerance++;


Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 754
Loc: Memphis & 53rd
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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What happens when you mix spores? Oops
#5351105 - 02/28/06 09:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I put 4 Honey LC jars into my Glovebox with a syringe with a little more than 1 ml left of Z and a new syringe with EQ. I had stupidly used the same old needle that I had meant to use for only the Z and then the new needle for the EQs, but I had used the Z needle all the way through accidentally. Does anyone know what will happen if even trace amounts of different spores get inoculated into the same jar as another strain?
-------------------- Psychedelic Jar Project "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." -Voltaire "Everything that I accepted as being true up to now I acquired from the senses or through the senses. However, I have occasionally found that they deceive me, and it is prudent never to trust those who have deceived us, even if only once." -Descartes
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Atheist
Stranger


Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 13,705
Loc: USA
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: Solidcell]
#5351126 - 02/28/06 09:06 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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In an LC the myceliums will just battle it out and one will win. I could be wrong because I've never done different strains in an LC before but i've innoced with two strains and it sucks because they don't work together at all. GL
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: Atheist]
#5351491 - 02/28/06 10:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Actually, a strain is born when any two compatible mycelial strands meet up and exchange genetic material. The 'omc' definitions of strain are actually incorrect from a mycology standpoint. There is just as much variation within a single sporeprint, as there is between sporeprints from opposite sides of the planet. Mixing strains won't hurt a thing. If you doubt this, instead of using 2cc's per jar from a single syringe, try using 1cc each from two different syringes. As controls, inoculate a few jars in the traditional manner. Mix the jars up on your shelf or incubator without labeling which ones are which strain, and I'll bet a dollar when they fruit, you won't be able to tell the difference between the single 'strain' jars and the dual 'strain' jars. Try it. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5352227 - 03/01/06 04:20 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I'll bet a dollar
With that kind of confidence, I'd say it HAS to work!
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Quick WBS Prep
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pcubmycol
flattiefisherman

Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 747
Loc: Selectively breeding the ...
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5352505 - 03/01/06 07:16 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Actually, a strain is born when any two compatible mycelial strands meet up and exchange genetic material. The 'omc' definitions of strain are actually incorrect from a mycology standpoint. There is just as much variation within a single sporeprint, as there is between sporeprints from opposite sides of the planet. Mixing strains won't hurt a thing. If you doubt this, instead of using 2cc's per jar from a single syringe, try using 1cc each from two different syringes. As controls, inoculate a few jars in the traditional manner. Mix the jars up on your shelf or incubator without labeling which ones are which strain, and I'll bet a dollar when they fruit, you won't be able to tell the difference between the single 'strain' jars and the dual 'strain' jars. Try it. RR
im gonna say no... and ill bet 2 dollars..
two different strains will not germinate with eachother. They will germinate with spores from the same strain and the stronger strain will take over. There is no hybridizing cubes or any mushroom i do believe...
happy trails
-------------------- weretheshit.com is the shit! :-D
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Jaicen
Psychedelic Monk

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 178
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: pcubmycol]
#5352554 - 03/01/06 07:41 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Actually the point was, the characteristics of the individual strains is so variable that under the same growing conditions, it's next to impossible to tell strains apart. Mixing spores will not produce any sort of mycological 'war', the mycellium will behave exactly as it does in a multispore injection. As long as the two spore sets are cubensis, they'll be fine together.
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thenewguy05
The Mushroom Man


Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 2,123
Loc: My Underground Layer
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: pcubmycol]
#5352564 - 03/01/06 07:46 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
pcubmycol said:
im gonna say no... and ill bet 2 dollars..
two different strains will not germinate with eachother. They will germinate with spores from the same strain and the stronger strain will take over. There is no hybridizing cubes or any mushroom i do believe...
are you kidding me. this is some sort of joke... i hope. the redboy was hybridized with a PR and then backcrossed with another original redboy making it 75% redboy. if that's not hybridizing i don't know what is.
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pcubmycol
flattiefisherman

Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 747
Loc: Selectively breeding the ...
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: Jaicen]
#5352567 - 03/01/06 07:49 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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yes im not saying they wont be fine together. I believe the hinderence of growth time may only be slight, but i do think it will be there. For the time it takes the stronger strain to send its genetics through an already established mycelial network. When the grow is fruiting, one network tends to produce resemblence between all their mushrooms.
ex. KSSS growing with PR... KSSS (known to be a faster colonizing strain) grows faster, and when you have fruits all your fruits and their precious little purple babies will have the characteristics and genetics of KSSS...
am i right? or wrong? we need someone...
happy trails
-------------------- weretheshit.com is the shit! :-D
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pcubmycol
flattiefisherman

Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 747
Loc: Selectively breeding the ...
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: thenewguy05]
#5352574 - 03/01/06 07:53 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
thenewguy05 said:
the redboy was hybridized with a PR and then backcrossed with another original redboy making it 75% redboy. if that's not hybridizing i don't know what is.
is this true with redboy?
ive been off on my own adventures for the past 6 months or so and redboy is fairly recent as far the public release, so i dont know much else than PF's buddy overseas was the only one to still have a print, now its available to anyone.
but ive never heard of hybridizing...
-------------------- weretheshit.com is the shit! :-D
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thenewguy05
The Mushroom Man


Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 2,123
Loc: My Underground Layer
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: pcubmycol]
#5352580 - 03/01/06 07:59 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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a short time lag is guaranteed to happen anyway because this also happens with the mating of 2 monokaryon of separate strains to form a dikaryon with genetics from both strains. even then there is no guarantee they will even fruit.
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pcubmycol
flattiefisherman

Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 747
Loc: Selectively breeding the ...
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: pcubmycol]
#5352797 - 03/01/06 09:08 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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anybody else have their input here?
i am still under the assumption it is not possible to hybridize a mushroom... thenewguy is under the assumption that it is.
Are we both wrong? whats up?
-------------------- weretheshit.com is the shit! :-D
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onetime
onetime


Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 3,609
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: pcubmycol]
#5352838 - 03/01/06 09:24 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
pcubmycol said:
im gonna say no... and ill bet 2 dollars..
two different strains will not germinate with eachother. They will germinate with spores from the same strain and the stronger strain will take over. There is no hybridizing cubes or any mushroom i do believe...
happy trails
How meny strains do you think is on a single sproe print? It is comman knowlage that each time two spores link together to make myc a new strain is born regardless if they came off the same spore print or not. A few years ago some one went out to prove that two strains an grow side by side together by knocking up to completly differant strains two differant edibles. It resulted in some grayish mushrooms growing and some redish mushrooms growing I forgot was type of mushrooms they were but "the dominat" one isnt going to take over. What about when Roger took ONE spore of the "redspore" cubenissis and crossed it with PR's? are you calling HIM liar? Any one can make so called "hybreds" if they had a mycroscope and could put two spores of two differant sub-strains and get them to team up to make myc.
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See? Yes, with my own three eyes. Depression, Misspells , wanting everying thing i cant have haveing nothing i want
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onetime
onetime


Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 3,609
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: pcubmycol]
#5352844 - 03/01/06 09:26 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
pcubmycol said: anybody else have their input here?
i am still under the assumption it is not possible to hybridize a mushroom... thenewguy is under the assumption that it is.
Are we both wrong? whats up?
http://www.ralphstersspores.com/index_files/Page339.html
Quote:
Roger Rabit said Just got my issue of Teonanacatl today, published by FMRC. In it you will find a short article on the red spore producing p. cubensis beginning on page 2. A more in depth article will appear in a future issue, perhaps the next one.
In short, for those of you who missed the first announcement of its return on a different website, the RedBoy has returned after 20 years!
This has been a very long, frustrating and expensive, but rewarding experience. To date, over two cases of petri dishes, several pounds of agar, the purchase of two new and powerful microscopes with digital cameras, and many hundreds of hours of loving work have gone into this project.
As most of you know, trying to germinate two year old spores becomes quite difficult. Five year old spores have proved to most cultivators to be completely inert, with a zero germination rate. I have several three year old sporeprints that will not germinate no matter what I've tried. Anyway, in this issue of Teoanactl are two pictures. The first is a picture of the 20 year old spores. The second is a picture that I nicnamed 'rip van winkle' for being the very first fruit from those 20 year old spores.
As you can imagine, the first year and a half was spent trying every trick of the trade to get these old spores to germinate. Compounding the problem of age was the fact that these spores were taken from a wild mushroom, complete with all the competitor molds one would expect from an outdoor print. Finally, a 'new and novel approach'(thanks stephen for that wording suggestion wink.gif ) was tried that in effect 'crossed' this strain with a different cubensis strain originating in Peurto Rico. A very powerful biological toxin was used to soak the spores, thus reducing the cell walls to mush. The same toxin was mixed into agar and monokaryotic mycelium from the PR(also weakened by the poison) was allowed to crawl across the toxin compromised red boy spores. The result was a sexual pairing, which resulted in binucleate mycelium which was then transferred to non-toxic agar to sector and isolate into two dozen or so substrains. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time DNA from non-germinating spores has been harvested and used to create dikaryotic mycelium. The pictures below are the result of that pairing. They are 50/50 Peurto Rican and RedBoy. Work is underway to breed the PR out of the mix and leave the Red Boy pure. Even with the PR mix, it is easy to see the 'redness' of the spores. Enjoy! RR
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See? Yes, with my own three eyes. Depression, Misspells , wanting everying thing i cant have haveing nothing i want
Edited by onetime (03/01/06 09:30 AM)
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pcubmycol
flattiefisherman

Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 747
Loc: Selectively breeding the ...
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: onetime]
#5352907 - 03/01/06 09:46 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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wow... ive been outta the loop on that one. Sounds pretty out there. Hybrid Cubes... i dont like the sound of this. Say goodbye to the days of selective breeding and hello to genetic engineering!
of course a new strain is created everytime you run through the process and start a new multi-spore inoculation (dependent upon how well the strain grew, ive found selectively breeding from casing to casing is beneficial), but i still cant believe that mushrooms will just hybridize from multispore innoc with 2 different strains. Maybe with all the crazyness of recombiant DNA or biotoxins, but not simply just multispore inoculation
-------------------- weretheshit.com is the shit! :-D
Edited by pcubmycol (03/01/06 09:56 AM)
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onetime
onetime


Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 3,609
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: pcubmycol]
#5352960 - 03/01/06 10:05 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes it will happend with multi spore. Becouse each time two spores join to gether to make myc that is a new strain regardless of if it came off the same spore print of something. Say you have a eq print there is about a million strains of eq on that single print. Kinda like each time your mom and dad hump a new person is born that dosent have the same dna as any other person that came befor him. Each time two spores join together you will have a new myc with new dna. when you do multi spore there is probly hundreds of dna in there. When you see a caseing done with multi spore and the shrooms growing on it are all differant strains they all have differant DNA.
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See? Yes, with my own three eyes. Depression, Misspells , wanting everying thing i cant have haveing nothing i want
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: onetime]
#5353053 - 03/01/06 10:33 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Correct. A fairly accurate analogy would be humans. Equate 'strains' with 'races'. A human from Europe will have no trouble breeding with a human from South America, and the resulting child will NOT be a hybrid but a 'cross', since both parents come from the same species. The more dominant human genes do not 'take over', nor do they fight it out. They mix. Ditto with two strains of the same species of fungi. The Redboy is not a hybrid, but simply a cross.
A true hybrid would be if one could cross a cube with an azurescens or pan cyan, or an oyster with a shiitake. Work is also underway in that area, and some promising developments are unfolding. Expect more in the coming months. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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cappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5353480 - 03/01/06 12:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well as far as human genes go, usually dominant genes are what is used by the cells. That's why they're called dominant. Brown hair and eyes for example are dominant genes. For example: Dad has green eyes, Mom has brown, they have 10 kids, more than 5 will have brown eyes. Dad has brown hair mom has blonde, more than 5 will have brown hair.
I know, not exactly on topic, but as long as we're talking analagies here...
~Cappa.
-------------------- Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't. ~Cappa.
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rye
Stranger


Registered: 07/30/03
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: cappa] 1
#5996867 - 08/25/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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holy shiite you all just blew me away with this stuff, good job roger!
-------------------- blue are the life giving waters taken for granted, they quietly understand. j hendrix.
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shoeareyou
Stranger


Registered: 01/07/07
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Re: What happens when you mix spores? Oops [Re: rye]
#8227432 - 04/02/08 03:57 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Seriously, who ever thinks fungi cannot mate needs to do some serious learning. Suffice to say roger rabbit knows what he is doing and has explained it already. + and - monokaryons equate to our male and female.the mushroom is the sexual fruitbody of the mycellium, with the idea that compatible spores grow and mate at a suitible pile of shit, in terms of cubensis.
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