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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Property
    #5350460 - 02/28/06 05:59 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Do we even own ourselves?

I say no, we do not own ourselves. We do not choose to enter the realm of existence. After entering into the world, our Jungian ego is formed from interaction with the environment, with others, and our own thoughts. We experience the human form. Ownership however, is most certainly not involved. Ownership implies subject and object. However, we are both subject (I) and object (me). There is no little man in what is called 'my' head to own me.


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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: Property [Re: dblaney]
    #5351628 - 02/28/06 10:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

So, what are you trying to say?


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Property [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5351781 - 02/28/06 11:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

my take, and somewat how i feel is that;
life is an experience, and largely we are subject to it.
events are somewhat incidental, there is never 1 person or thing to blame for any peticular event.
..somewhat.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Property [Re: dblaney]
    #5351788 - 02/28/06 11:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Property should exist for society's benefit. Property rights should be framed with that in mind. Unfortunately, our current system of property rights tends to serve certain special interests at the expense of society.


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Property [Re: Silversoul]
    #5353120 - 03/01/06 10:49 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Could you expand on that a little? How specifically do you think property rights should be changed?

I mean it's clear if you look at different cultures around the world, the way they developed. European cultures developed with citizens that owned many things, and over time, they socially segregated themselves over the quantity and quality of eachothers' possessions.

By comparison, the American Indians, the Hindus, the Taoists, etc. evolved on systems where a citizen had, but did not possess. Morally they were more in touch with the perennial philosophy, and so didn't covet and horde as much, nor were they as competitive.

Cultures where explicit rights were given to property, greed grew exponentially moreso than in the Indian, Hindu, and Taoist cultures. There may have been attempts to integrate the two major types of cultures, but none that I know of have been successful. Can you think of some way to integrate them?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Property [Re: dblaney]
    #5353652 - 03/01/06 01:46 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
Could you expand on that a little? How specifically do you think property rights should be changed?



Well, I do think it's reasonable for people to own the product of their labor. Some property rights, however, infringe upon this axiom. Land ownership tends to put the product of other people's labor into the hands of the landowner. Now, I do believe that land should be available for private use, but one should not be able to profit from the land's rental value, as that is generated by society as a whole, and should thus belong to society. Henry George proposed a brilliant method for accomplishing this.

Then there's intellectual property. It boggles the mind how an idea, once expressed could come to be owned. And yet, I believe that intellectual property rights can be used to encourage innovation. However, today they have extended so far as to restrict it. I think the founding fathers of this country had the right idea, and we should return to the guidelines they set for intellectual property.


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