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OfflineWordlessNature
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P. Subbalteatus
    #5344963 - 02/27/06 11:37 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Since panaeolus has been a common topic as of late, I might as well bring it up. I believe that the foothills and grasslands in my area are home to subbalteatus. There is a large ranch adjacent to mine and there are cows grazing on approximately 800 acres. I am guessing that after these rains there should be a plethora of different mushrooms popping up. My hopes are that panaeolus will be among them~


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Offlinepsychonautix
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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5345069 - 02/27/06 12:17 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

If I were you I would go looking for Liberty Caps, from the sound of your area you will have just as much, if not more, luck with finding libs.


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Invisiblesui
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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: psychonautix]
    #5345155 - 02/27/06 12:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Taken from Shroomery FAQ,.





In first picture notice that the gills are adnate (broadly attached to the stalk and whitish on their edges. In the second picture notice that the substrate is manure and the thick stem. In the third picture notice the substrate is a fertilized lawn and the thinner type of stem.


CAP 2-6 cm broad, convex or bluntly conical becoming broadly convex to broadly umbonate to plane or with uplifted margin; surface smooth or wrinkled, in age sometimes breaking into scales (fissured, not viscid; color variable: brownish to reddish brown or cinnamon brown when moist, fading as it dries to tan, buff, or even whitish (or grayish from spores), often with a darker (reddish-brown to brown or dark gray) marginal zone when partially dried. Flesh thin, brownish.
GILLSAdnate to adnexed or seceding, close, broad, at first pale watery brown or reddish-brown, darkening gradually to black; edges whitish, faces usually mottled in age.
STALK 4-10 cm long, (1)3-6(10) mm thick, equal or tapered at either end, hollow but not fragile, brown to reddish-brown, but often appearing whitish from a fine powder, or dusted gray by spores; apex often paler; usually longitudinally striate throughout; base (and mycelium) occasionally staining faintly bluish when bruised.
VEILAbsent.
SPORE PRINT Black; spores 10-14x7-9 microns, elliptical, smooth.

HABITAT: Scattered to densely gregarious-often in small clumps-in manure, compost, and fertilized lawns; widely distributed.

EDIBILITY: Hallucinogenic-the psilocybin content varies from moderate to low, perhaps due to differences in the nitrogen concentration of the substrate.


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Invisiblesui
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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: sui]
    #5345157 - 02/27/06 12:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

look on horse chips and bails of hay.


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Offlineeris
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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5345451 - 02/27/06 01:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, from my experience and all that I have seen on here/elsewhere, there is a better chance of finding them near horse manure composts. They are also known to grow straight from hay bails.


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Invisiblesui
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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: psychonautix]
    #5345528 - 02/27/06 02:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psychonautix said:
If I were you I would go looking for Liberty Caps, from the sound of your area you will have just as much, if not more, luck with finding libs.





have you found libs in cali?????

ive never seen a substantiated report of Libs in Cali. Plus the season for Libs is over so, no he probobly wouldnt have more luck finding Libs.


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InvisiblegeorgeM
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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: sui]
    #5345561 - 02/27/06 02:17 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Keep in mind while checking hay bales that mushrooms of the Coprinus genus also love hay and straw. Don't be confused or disheartened if and when you find large quantities of Coprinus. If you are not familiar with these you may want to educate yourself a bit just to familiarize yourself with an extremely common non-active mushroom... as you are very likely to encounter them.

georgem


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5345605 - 02/27/06 02:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Hell i found this pile around where the cattle feed on hay. They stand around in a circle and eat of the circle bail. crapping and eating. The grass gets tall the ground gets enriched and muddied. I find them as a late spring mushroom.



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Offlinexmush
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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #5345630 - 02/27/06 02:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Those look like P. foenescii. The gills look to be lower than the margin of the cap.

xmush


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: xmush]
    #5345650 - 02/27/06 02:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

ha ha no way! Spore print was all good. On the few larger specimens i see what you are saying but on the p. foenescii i never noticed that the gills went lower then the cap. Maybe i never saw any large ones but they grow all over my yard and give brown prints. These were found on and around dung in a cow pasture. The enlarged picture is the actual size of them. Notice the BLACK spores on the caps.


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InvisiblegeorgeM
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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: xmush]
    #5345676 - 02/27/06 02:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

They look like mature subs to me. A little worse for wear. This year I plan on paying very close attention to the gills as i think I?ve noticed many subs with gills that hang below the margins of the cap... as a sub matures the cap can become flat to even slightly sunken. When specimens are young this idea of low hanging gills might be a better indicator for differentiating between the two. Once the cap becomes flattened with age the gills will certainly be hanging lower than the margins.
georgem


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: georgeM]
    #5345694 - 02/27/06 03:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah i wasnt really expecting to be picking so many or any for that matter. I was at work on my friends farm. I came back with a shirt full. So they kinda got beat up hardcore. You can kind of possibly see some blueing effects on some of the larger specimens stem bases.


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Offlinexmush
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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #5345806 - 02/27/06 03:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for the info. I see the black spores now, and that one does look a bit blue. For some reason I had it in my head that low hanging gills=foenescii.

xmush


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: georgeM]
    #5345829 - 02/27/06 03:32 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It is not uncommon for the gills of Pan subbs to hang down below the cap in older specimens.




I think the variation in morphology is due more to the age of the mushroom than to different substrates.


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Offlinexmush
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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: shroomydan]
    #5346148 - 02/27/06 04:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Very good to know. This old pan subbs faq from here should maybe be changed then: http://www.impakt.net/~tyler/subbs/

thanks for all the info. I've recently found a rather large, state owned horse pasture and they seem to dump their manure piles right by the fence, so I'm hoping I find some subbs this spring.

xmush


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Offlinepioneering_south
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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5347522 - 02/27/06 10:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Hello to THE SHROOMERY!

Welcome to the world of the madness, of shroom hunters abroad.

We are the seekers, and finders we will all become, as those who have seen the fields of gold will know.
I love the gold and I love the secrets, and I use my gains for noble reaches, I extend to the masses the extent of my grips.
Which just happens to include panaleaous subbalteatus!

For the beginners... LOOK EVERYWHERE.
I mean GRASS, ASS( horse or cow) and in the fields PASS
The mushroom spirit is a true being, and when I am in tune with the mushroom, the mushrooms come to me. It will come if it's right.

yes I mean I almost crush the active varieties in my daily work routines and activities. It's weird how powerful the mushroom can speak in the purple lights of the mind. They come and tell me things.
I converse with the mushroom, and we speak back and forth on the astral.. it's weird how it all comes true.

But I love pan subbs...By the way, the pictures of subbs on page one of this thread can be misleading. They can be thin stalked very often, as long as the print is black, and there is lines where the stem joins the cap, and the normal twisty stem, they are subalteatus.

mushrooms are crafty, and often predictable.



The subbs where I come from, have thin stems, and they dry in the sun down to nothing... the return to dust as they have came.

:mushroom2:


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Offlinexmush
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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: pioneering_south]
    #5347585 - 02/27/06 10:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

what a first post  :blazed:

thanks and welcome to the shroomery!


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OfflineWordlessNature
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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: xmush]
    #5347760 - 02/27/06 11:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you all for your replies. I shall be hunting endlessly after this storm front passes through...


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Offlinetrevorda8
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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5348463 - 02/28/06 07:38 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Good post, I as well as alot of others have learned a great deal of information.
May this post last awhile longer so others can benefit from this information.

I beleive I found subs in a fertilized lawn once, while looking for stuntzii's.
The print was black, but the stems were thin.
I posted a picture here awhile back, with everyone telling me they were fossils. Their reason being that the stem was too thin to be subbs.
So I threw em' out!

I do have a question though-
Could I find subbs in a grassy field?
A field that has not had any animal of any kind in it?
One of those fields where the grass was once long, but they cut it and it looks all messy, with dead grass inertwined with the live grass?

So the dead grass acts as hay in a hay bale.

Here's another:
Would I be abel to find subbs in the straw that they lay down in construction sites?

I think these questions will add to the knowlege, if they can be answered.
Thanks


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: P. Subbalteatus [Re: trevorda8]
    #5348491 - 02/28/06 07:55 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Would I be able to find subbs in the straw that they lay down in construction sites?

Last year someone posted a Pan subb find from construction bails in central park NY.

The field with lots of cut grass sounds like a good place to look, but I don't know for sure.

As for the thickness of the stems, that is just a general rule; there are exceptions.



The two on the left are Panaeolus subbalteatus; the two on the right are Panaeolina foenisecii.


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