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mskip23
Can It All Be So Simple!


Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1,522
Loc: Philly
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LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide
#5340370 - 02/26/06 09:08 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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-------------------- url=https://files.shroomery.org/files/05-26/988356075-Picture-278.gif] [/url
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA



Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
Loc: LA Suburbs
Last seen: 8 months, 26 days
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: mskip23]
#5340380 - 02/26/06 09:17 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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It's always a lot easier to say "My son died because he was on drugs" than it is to say "my son killed himself". People are idiots.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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sui
I love you.


Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,853
Loc: Cali, Contra Costa Co.
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: mskip23]
#5340384 - 02/26/06 09:19 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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here it comes. I was waiting for something like this.
I bet the DEA was ecstatic when they heard about this, "Now we have a reason to make it illeaqal, SCORE!!!"
-------------------- "There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix
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A0999
Disco ish


Registered: 09/27/02
Posts: 3,489
Loc: TEXUS
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: mskip23]
#5340437 - 02/26/06 09:39 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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"We just won't have any answers, and we have to learn to accept that," Kathy Chidester said. "But my gut feeling is it was the salvia. It's the only thing that can explain it."
what a bitch. just cause your sons head is fucked dont blame it on salvia(something you know nothing about).
"The site where Brett Chidester got at least one batch sells it in packages dubbed "mind bender," "mood mix" and "freshman selection." It sells a "party pack" of three different strengths of extract, plus four ounces of leaves, for $207.90."
lol, that kid got jacked.
-------------------- Not necessarily stoned, but beautiful
Edited by anarchist0999 (02/26/06 09:48 AM)
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mskip23
Can It All Be So Simple!


Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1,522
Loc: Philly
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: A0999]
#5340451 - 02/26/06 09:46 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
anarchist0999 said: "We just won't have any answers, and we have to learn to accept that," Kathy Chidester said. "But my gut feeling is it was the salvia. It's the only thing that can explain it."
what a bitch. just cause your sons head is fucked dont blame it on salvia.
-------------------- url=https://files.shroomery.org/files/05-26/988356075-Picture-278.gif] [/url
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: mskip23]
#5340460 - 02/26/06 09:53 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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salvia isnt anything like LSD and DMT is the worlds most potent hallucinogen. damn media so what the kid had a great understanding it didnt take drugs for me to realize life is pointless that came upon me at a much younger age. Its not the drugs ever its what people do on drugs or what skeletons they bring out of their mental closet
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  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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Chikitta
Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 632
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: A0999]
#5340492 - 02/26/06 10:07 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
anarchist0999 said: "The site where Brett Chidester got at least one batch sells it in packages dubbed "mind bender," "mood mix" and "freshman selection." It sells a "party pack" of three different strengths of extract, plus four ounces of leaves, for $207.90."
Isn't that the site that half of the Shroomery sent angry emails to? I knew that stupid site would eventually cause problems because of the way they marketed salvia.
Plus ye, it's a total fucking rip off.
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roby000
me

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 9,189
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide *DELETED* [Re: Chikitta]
#5340521 - 02/26/06 10:20 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by roby000
Reason for deletion: d
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abrad84
Stranger


Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 1,128
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Chikitta]
#5340541 - 02/26/06 10:27 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chikitta said:
Quote:
anarchist0999 said: "The site where Brett Chidester got at least one batch sells it in packages dubbed "mind bender," "mood mix" and "freshman selection." It sells a "party pack" of three different strengths of extract, plus four ounces of leaves, for $207.90."
Isn't that the site that half of the Shroomery sent angry emails to? I knew that stupid site would eventually cause problems because of the way they marketed salvia.
Plus ye, it's a total fucking rip off.
Yeah thats the one, I think they changed the name of the packages they were offering but they are still very irresponsible, especially with their stupid videos of people tripping.
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Tripped
Stranger
Registered: 01/02/06
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Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: abrad84]
#5340571 - 02/26/06 10:39 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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yeah....i might of killed myslef on salvia.......IF IT WAS LIKE 300X!. I doubt he even had 20 too. Ive smoked the 40x stuff and tis pretty fucked....but think about it....He would of had to planned out how to kill himself before he took the toke....cause your pretty immobilized when u take it.
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Tripped]
#5340584 - 02/26/06 10:46 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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hmm why does all the stuff on how it effects sound like DMT. thats odd. well this is a sign that entheogens are going to get raped by the govt.there gona take down the other types of cacti and dmt plants. Tho DMT plants if your part of the church it will still be legal probally.
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  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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ReposadoXochipilli
Here, there, inbetween


Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 7,501
Loc: Sand and sunshine
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: abrad84]
#5340586 - 02/26/06 10:47 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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"Mom and Dad, don't worry about me," Brett wrote in his suicide note. "Please don't cry. I love you guys so much. I always have. Take a vacation. You deserve it. Please do not be sad. I want you to carry on your lives. Remember me and be happy when you think of me, not sad. Tell yourselves I'm in a better place, because I am. I'm sorry I didn't get to say goodbye before this, but I love you."
seems like they are not doing anything he asked... putting thier lives on hold to try and ban salvia, make his story and part of his letter public. i bet he is rolling over in his grave.
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: ReposadoXochipilli]
#5340596 - 02/26/06 10:51 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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this shit pisses me off.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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abrad84
Stranger


Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 1,128
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Tripped]
#5340606 - 02/26/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tripped said: yeah....i might of killed myslef on salvia.......IF IT WAS LIKE 300X!. I doubt he even had 20 too. Ive smoked the 40x stuff and tis pretty fucked....but think about it....He would of had to planned out how to kill himself before he took the toke....cause your pretty immobilized when u take it.
He wasn't on salvia when he killed himself, read the article.
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roby000
me

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 9,189
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: abrad84]
#5340614 - 02/26/06 10:57 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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maybe he was just trying to camp?
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA



Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
Loc: LA Suburbs
Last seen: 8 months, 26 days
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: roby000]
#5340630 - 02/26/06 11:03 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
roby000 said: bad parents=bad kids has america not learned this yet?
America learned it, but then they realized it made them look bad so they quickly un-learned it and thought of a hasty delusion to shelter their pride.
I don't necessarily think the parents are wicked or some such for blaming the drugs, from their mindset it would seem entirely possible. Not only are they raised to think drugs will fuck their minds up, but they're also in grief and a delusion that gives them a chemical to blame for the death is far more comforting than the realization that they as parents failed to keep their son from killing himself.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: roby000]
#5340631 - 02/26/06 11:04 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
roby000 said: maybe he was just trying to camp?
lol im gona go camping with huasca in the summer lol if i got attacked by a bear or animal and killed will it be blamed on DMT?
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  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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Nephlyte
Misfortunate One


Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,025
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: thedudenj]
#5340651 - 02/26/06 11:11 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well, i'm glad that mother and father now have solace in being able to blame a drug they have never used nor researched (nor has the author of this article researched) on their son's death. Its easy to blame a drug instead of perhaps, talking to your son once in a while.
Perhaps learning why he might have killed himself, being involved in his life? Nope, it was probably the drug.
-------------------- "To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana
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roby000
me

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 9,189
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: thedudenj]
#5340653 - 02/26/06 11:11 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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i will blame it on dmt and fight a personall crusade to ban peoples personal liberty to use it.
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kaniz
That one, overthere.


Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 4,166
Loc: Ontario
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: roby000]
#5340680 - 02/26/06 11:22 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I dont think they are saying SD killed him. Or, he killed himself from the direct influence of SD. But, SD triggered depression, as it showed him how 'meaningnless and pointless humanity is', and lead him to commut sicuide.
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agoutihead


Registered: 11/11/05
Posts: 1,449
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: kaniz]
#5340868 - 02/26/06 12:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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"People take their experiences way too literally and read too many things into it," Siebert said. "If you take it literally, you really believe you've traveled to other dimensions and met other beings that told you things. Minors are particularly prone to not understanding that."
there they go again... trying to brain wash people into thinking what they are experiencing is not real.
those sonsofbitches asshole motherfuckers!
heh sorry i get mad sometimes.
they also told a story of a lady who seen into the future with every door she opened and saw the death of her child.... now for me i have a child and thats just something i would never want to see! i feel for her if its the truth.
-------------------- "When I'm on LSD and hearing something that's pure rhythm, it takes me to another world and into anther brain state where I've stopped thinking and started knowing" - Kevin Herbert "Psychedelics let you see the world through a child's eye." "Experience the liquid realm..." "The evolution of mankind is in the alteration of consciousness" - Dr. Albert Hofmann
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abrad84
Stranger


Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 1,128
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: agoutihead]
#5340936 - 02/26/06 12:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
agoutihead said: "People take their experiences way too literally and read too many things into it," Siebert said. "If you take it literally, you really believe you've traveled to other dimensions and met other beings that told you things. Minors are particularly prone to not understanding that."
there they go again... trying to brain wash people into thinking what they are experiencing is not real.
those sonsofbitches asshole motherfuckers!
heh sorry i get mad sometimes.
It was Siebert who said that and he's right. Generally speaking minors are not mature enough to fully understand their experiences. This is why psychedelics should be legalised and regulated.
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agoutihead


Registered: 11/11/05
Posts: 1,449
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: abrad84]
#5340952 - 02/26/06 12:49 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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no no, i totally agree with not letting minors take it... i was disagreeing with him saying that the dimensions we reach when on psychedelics are not real.
that my friend is total bullshit.
-------------------- "When I'm on LSD and hearing something that's pure rhythm, it takes me to another world and into anther brain state where I've stopped thinking and started knowing" - Kevin Herbert "Psychedelics let you see the world through a child's eye." "Experience the liquid realm..." "The evolution of mankind is in the alteration of consciousness" - Dr. Albert Hofmann
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: agoutihead]
#5340996 - 02/26/06 01:03 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
agoutihead said: no no, i totally agree with not letting minors take it... i was disagreeing with him saying that the dimensions we reach when on psychedelics are not real.
that my friend is total bullshit.
I SECOND.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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ClammyJoe
Azurescen Head



Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 3,691
Loc: PNW
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5341017 - 02/26/06 01:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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A lot of people who I've watched use it, thinking it was just some party drug to take an have a good time, they ended up laying by themselves for half an hour "wishing they could just die"
The kid no knowing what was in for him combined with a shitty home life, could have easily pushed him over the edge. Its sad really that the family doesn't realize what they did to their son.
The government really has no right to limit where we go in our brains, if they think they can regulate our physical world and our mental world, they better be ready to fight me for it.
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: mskip23]
#5341033 - 02/26/06 01:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Why would it ever be demanded of a person to stay alive when they are unwilling? I don't see how you can differentiate that from slavery. Society is fucked.
Assuming this boy did have spiritual guidance that pointed him in the direction of suicide... who are we to even say he shouldn't have taken that path?
In reality, any spiritual insight an individual receives is based partially (if not entirely) on the self (as opposed to a plant). Even if salvia was this boy's MEANS of enlightenment, his own mind was the SOURCE. Clearly there were factors that caused his suicide other than salvia... otherwise you'd probably see a whole lot of people killing themselves on salvia. Saying salvia causes suicide is only as realistic as saying Islam causes suicide bombings, or Christianity causes crusades.
Then again... I suppose most of the 'good guys' these days do believe Islam causes suicide bombings... scary world. Hopefully they don't start a war on salvia.
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
Edited by ExplosiveMango (02/26/06 01:17 PM)
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Mitchnast
Toadmonger


Registered: 10/27/99
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#5341070 - 02/26/06 01:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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i say they make religion illegal. it leads to depression, delusions, isolation, and in severe cases suicide.
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Grapefruity
Lawn Gnome
Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 601
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: agoutihead]
#5341083 - 02/26/06 01:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
agoutihead said: no no, i totally agree with not letting minors take it... i was disagreeing with him saying that the dimensions we reach when on psychedelics are not real.
that my friend is total bullshit.
Its all in your mind man. How could they be real.
Maybe we dont have the same def of real :p
But siebert, isnt he the one who first found out about salvinorin A? He's been researchin on it for 20 years man :p
Edited by Grapefruity (02/26/06 01:32 PM)
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Psilocyan
Humble Voyager


Registered: 07/13/05
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Mitchnast]
#5341086 - 02/26/06 01:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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This is the kind of absolute bullshit that renders me speechless.
Goddamnit.
-------------------- I Psilocybe weilii... "I think of going to the grave without ever having a psychedelic experience like going to the grave without ever having sex." -McKenna
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Konnrade]
#5341106 - 02/26/06 01:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konnrade said: America learned it, but then they realized it made them look bad so they quickly un-learned it and thought of a hasty delusion to shelter their pride.
AMEN
Quote:
Konnrade said:
I don't necessarily think the parents are wicked or some such for blaming the drugs, from their mindset it would seem entirely possible.
That's just it... nothing is truly wicked... the afflictions prevailing in our society today are ignorance and intolerance.
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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agoutihead


Registered: 11/11/05
Posts: 1,449
Last seen: 6 years, 7 days
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Psilocyan]
#5341107 - 02/26/06 01:34 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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nope actually dr. hofmann and another man i forgot his name found the plant in mexico in the 60's.
-------------------- "When I'm on LSD and hearing something that's pure rhythm, it takes me to another world and into anther brain state where I've stopped thinking and started knowing" - Kevin Herbert "Psychedelics let you see the world through a child's eye." "Experience the liquid realm..." "The evolution of mankind is in the alteration of consciousness" - Dr. Albert Hofmann
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donkey2
Stranger

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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: agoutihead]
#5341114 - 02/26/06 01:36 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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hahha, this article is absolutely absurd. At no point is there a link between the salvia and suicide. Its just too easy for the parents to blame his suicide on salvia use alone. If only people in this world were half way intelligent to even consider other factors.
-------------------- Peace and Happiness to all.
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abrad84
Stranger


Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 1,128
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Grapefruity]
#5341120 - 02/26/06 01:39 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruity said:
Quote:
agoutihead said: no no, i totally agree with not letting minors take it... i was disagreeing with him saying that the dimensions we reach when on psychedelics are not real.
that my friend is total bullshit.
Its all in your mind man. How could they be real.
Maybe we dont have the same def of real :p
But siebert, isnt he the one who first found out about salvinorin A? He's been researchin on it for 20 years man :p
http://www.sagewisdom.org/danielsiebert.html
I don't think he discovered it but he is one of the most foremost reseachers on Salvia.
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shriek
*********

Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3,274
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Nephlyte]
#5341133 - 02/26/06 01:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nephlyte said: Well, i'm glad that mother and father now have solace in being able to blame a drug they have never used nor researched (nor has the author of this article researched) on their son's death. Its easy to blame a drug instead of perhaps, talking to your son once in a while.
Perhaps learning why he might have killed himself, being involved in his life? Nope, it was probably the drug.
yeah yeah, but what do you expect? that the parents was gonna sit down and browse the shroomery for true informatin on a plant when they have no intrests in ethnobotany or whatever after the loss of a child? i wouldnt judge the parents too hard on this one, do you know what happend here, really? is the parents to blame? can we sit on this message board and judge them as bad parents? does that makes us any better than them? i do agree the plant is not to blame. but the parents probably base it on what they saw and couldnt understand.
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA



Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
Loc: LA Suburbs
Last seen: 8 months, 26 days
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5341276 - 02/26/06 02:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
EquilibriuM said:
Quote:
agoutihead said: no no, i totally agree with not letting minors take it... i was disagreeing with him saying that the dimensions we reach when on psychedelics are not real.
that my friend is total bullshit.
I SECOND.
Exactly, They AREN'T real! Everything you experience with psychedellics is inside of your own brain, it's not an actual place and none of it is actual things. Hallucinations feel real, it's why they are so intense, but they are not reality! A sensible person knows that.
To those who disagree: come on now, do you honestly beleive you're travelling to a real place where your thoughts alone can alter the entire substance of the "location" you occupy?
I think it's very important not to delude yourself to the point where you start thinking your dream states are an actual reality, that's opening the door and putting out a newspaper ad inviting all sorts of crazy into your head.
I'm glad some of the people here are very aware of the realities of the matter.
--------------------
I find your lack of faith disturbing
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agoutihead


Registered: 11/11/05
Posts: 1,449
Last seen: 6 years, 7 days
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Konnrade]
#5341299 - 02/26/06 02:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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so are you saying that our conciousness (<-- i know i spelled that wrong so sue me!) dimension is the only dimension that actually exsists?
-------------------- "When I'm on LSD and hearing something that's pure rhythm, it takes me to another world and into anther brain state where I've stopped thinking and started knowing" - Kevin Herbert "Psychedelics let you see the world through a child's eye." "Experience the liquid realm..." "The evolution of mankind is in the alteration of consciousness" - Dr. Albert Hofmann
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA



Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: agoutihead]
#5341403 - 02/26/06 03:10 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'll try and put this in the right words, but symantics for this kind of subject can be daunting 
The "reality" you experience under the influence of psychedellics is an actual experience, it is a valid memory, and it is a form of reality... however it is not a TANGIBLE reality, it is not necessarily true, and should not be thought of in any literal sense, because that can be dangerous. You can easily experience something in a psychedellic experience that seems very true to you, but is actually very false and could be very bad for you. Take this "reality" with a grain of salt and apply your own wisdom to it... it should not be regarded the way you regard tangible reality, which is always true and can be measured, quantized, studied. Psychedellic reality is not a real "dimension", it's just a stream of consciousness that you have to make sense of, it's entirely the result of your own mind, and the human mind is a very flawed thing that should not be trusted without scrutiny.
--------------------
I find your lack of faith disturbing
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inv3rse
OP-4Warez/0day-warezon Rizon


Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 312
Loc: Denver, CO
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: shriek]
#5341449 - 02/26/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
shriek said:
Quote:
Nephlyte said: Well, i'm glad that mother and father now have solace in being able to blame a drug they have never used nor researched (nor has the author of this article researched) on their son's death. Its easy to blame a drug instead of perhaps, talking to your son once in a while.
Perhaps learning why he might have killed himself, being involved in his life? Nope, it was probably the drug.
yeah yeah, but what do you expect? that the parents was gonna sit down and browse the shroomery for true informatin on a plant when they have no intrests in ethnobotany or whatever after the loss of a child? i wouldnt judge the parents too hard on this one, do you know what happend here, really? is the parents to blame? can we sit on this message board and judge them as bad parents? does that makes us any better than them? i do agree the plant is not to blame. but the parents probably base it on what they saw and couldnt understand.
ditto*
-------------------- "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." "Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas. Five years later? Six? It seems like a lifetime, or at least a main era - -the kind of peak that never comes again. San Francisco in the middle sixties was a very special time and place to be a part of. Maybe it meant something. Maybe not, in the long run, but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world. Whatever it meant." Hunter S. Thompson.
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BMArts
Stranger
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Konnrade]
#5341457 - 02/26/06 03:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think there is no this reality and that reality... our perception of what is is highly limited to what our senses can take in and to tell you the truth our senses aren't very good. Psychadelics lead us to perceive other things that we wouldn't usually perceive. They are imo as much real as our 'normal reality' is. Who can say how much of reality we are actualy taking in through what our senses give us. Imo not very much, through meditation or a spiritual path one can be led to perceive much more what is and psychadelics can take you to places where you perceive things in ways you wouldn't perceive them... the things perceived though are no more real or unreal than the things we usually perceive (since that what we usually perceive cannot be taken as the absolute 'reality' since our senses just aren't very good)... hmm ok.. my thoughs
-------------------- Everything I post on this board is pure fiction. Nothing in the post above is real. It is all made up...
May the source be with GNU
Edited by BMArts (02/26/06 03:27 PM)
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ClammyJoe
Azurescen Head



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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: BMArts]
#5341496 - 02/26/06 03:32 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Indeed, in an altered state, we are simply experiencing the same reality, just in different ways.
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Konnrade]
#5341549 - 02/26/06 03:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konnrade said: I'll try and put this in the right words, but symantics for this kind of subject can be daunting 
The "reality" you experience under the influence of psychedellics is an actual experience, it is a valid memory, and it is a form of reality... however it is not a TANGIBLE reality, it is not necessarily true, and should not be thought of in any literal sense, because that can be dangerous. You can easily experience something in a psychedellic experience that seems very true to you, but is actually very false and could be very bad for you. Take this "reality" with a grain of salt and apply your own wisdom to it... it should not be regarded the way you regard tangible reality, which is always true and can be measured, quantized, studied. Psychedellic reality is not a real "dimension", it's just a stream of consciousness that you have to make sense of, it's entirely the result of your own mind, and the human mind is a very flawed thing that should not be trusted without scrutiny.
This "reality" is only solid and can be measured because it exists in the normal assemblage point position. Meaning that we all agree on this reality and have been set to it since shortly after birth. Other realities seem "less solid" because we haven't had all this time to accept them and tune into them. Therefore science can only exist in the first attention. To say that other realities aren't real because science cant understand them is absurd. Science is lying to you.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Lakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5341673 - 02/26/06 04:10 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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On March 1st salvia will be illegal in yet another country:
About the article: I think only of family secrets. The kid had his salvia, the parents had their x, y and z. That is why he lied about his saliva use and that is why he killed himself. But in America the media never explores the family secrets -- after all, they don't exit.
Edited by Lakefingers (06/01/06 02:55 AM)
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA



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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5341698 - 02/26/06 04:18 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
EquilibriuM said:
Quote:
Konnrade said: I'll try and put this in the right words, but symantics for this kind of subject can be daunting 
The "reality" you experience under the influence of psychedellics is an actual experience, it is a valid memory, and it is a form of reality... however it is not a TANGIBLE reality, it is not necessarily true, and should not be thought of in any literal sense, because that can be dangerous. You can easily experience something in a psychedellic experience that seems very true to you, but is actually very false and could be very bad for you. Take this "reality" with a grain of salt and apply your own wisdom to it... it should not be regarded the way you regard tangible reality, which is always true and can be measured, quantized, studied. Psychedellic reality is not a real "dimension", it's just a stream of consciousness that you have to make sense of, it's entirely the result of your own mind, and the human mind is a very flawed thing that should not be trusted without scrutiny.
This "reality" is only solid and can be measured because it exists in the normal assemblage point position. Meaning that we all agree on this reality and have been set to it since shortly after birth. Other realities seem "less solid" because we haven't had all this time to accept them and tune into them. Therefore science can only exist in the first attention. To say that other realities aren't real because science cant understand them is absurd. Science is lying to you.
Science being unable to study it isn't my only reason. My other reason is because it's coming from inside of your own brain, it's just a chemically induced dream. The philosophy of the "dude, what if..." can be fun to discuss, but it's almost always folly... you're not going to another dimension when you take drugs, you're just altering the way you perceive things, and allowing your own mind to start altering everything you can perceive. This can be insightful, yes, because your mind can do very neat things in this state, but assuming that it's anything other than the product of your thoughts is a delusion and nothing more.
Delusions are bad. This boy's parents blame Salvia for his death because they are delusional and cannot accept the truth because their mind does not like it, it's threatening to their mindset because they prefer the "reality" they see in their delusion. You want to beleive you go to a real place when you take drugs, so you have a delusion that helps you beleive that you do, when you really don't.
This isn't some mystical concept beyond current understanding, this is psychology, a human science that is based on thinking with your sensibility as opposed to thinking with your fantasies. It may be preferrable to beleive something else, but when you think reasonably about it, it's not too hard to see things for what they are.
I like psychedellic drugs, they have a lot of capability to do many useful things, but I'm not foolish enough to entertain fantasies about them transporting my consciousness to some alternate dimension, I know better.
The dumbass who killed himself had delusions about the psychedellic reality being an alternate reality, and he thought that was real, and that's most likely why he killed himself. His "alternate reality" suggested a really stupid idea to him, and being the fool that he was he accepted it as truth and killed himself, rather than taking it with a grain of salt and realizing how utterly retarded the idea was.
I'm being fairly vicious, but it's the bloody truth.
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Turn
Hey Its Free!

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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Konnrade]
#5341804 - 02/26/06 04:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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To what Konnrade said above me: Yeah your point makes good sense but still your oppinion is also based on "dude, what if..." because you can't Know that it isn't real. It is best to assume that Salvia world isn't Real, but still you can only claim it isn't Real with just as much proof as those who claim it is.
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Grapefruity
Lawn Gnome
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Turn]
#5341854 - 02/26/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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It's like a video game...looks real...but isnt...You coud still get lessons from a video game you could use in reality ...
Mixin the psychedelics with reality goes far...I had a break where I firmly believed the lsd visuals were showing the history of lsd across time. It the most interesting trip ever though.
My goal since i dont know when...To detach from those far out thoughts when tripping, and to understand things, in ways i can teach em to people in reality, in a simple, more global way. To include everyone and every possibility...Makes sense?
Edited by Grapefruity (02/26/06 05:36 PM)
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agoutihead


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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Grapefruity]
#5341911 - 02/26/06 05:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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konrade you do have a very strong and intersting opionon.
my hypothesis is this:
they are different dimensions that are "built in" to our dna... its not like your soul is really going to another planet
but the whole history of knowledge is built into our dna... just like these alternate realities or alternate dimensions.
they are obviously all different from person to person because each specfic persons mind does influence the way their brain thinks and therefore interacts with these other dimensions/realities.
psychedelic drugs just "turn on" the brain to the correct and untouchble other wise, frequency to ride these waves of electricity/pleasure through our own brain.
Dr. hofmann himself in his book says that it is in fact your own mind producing the psychedelic experience... the drugs just turn that switch on. obviously
-------------------- "When I'm on LSD and hearing something that's pure rhythm, it takes me to another world and into anther brain state where I've stopped thinking and started knowing" - Kevin Herbert "Psychedelics let you see the world through a child's eye." "Experience the liquid realm..." "The evolution of mankind is in the alteration of consciousness" - Dr. Albert Hofmann
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Konnrade]
#5341945 - 02/26/06 05:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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this reality most of us are in now is reality, but it is only a small part of reality. When we are able to shift our assemblage point we are able to see glimpses of other aspects of reality. Why would you think that what we are experiencing now is all there is?
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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psychonaut_420
psychonaut

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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5342020 - 02/26/06 05:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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that kid must of already had some deep mental problems before even using salvia
--------------------
"Life sucks, Shit happens, Smoke weed and forget about it"
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA



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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5343393 - 02/26/06 10:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
EquilibriuM said: this reality most of us are in now is reality, but it is only a small part of reality. When we are able to shift our assemblage point we are able to see glimpses of other aspects of reality. Why would you think that what we are experiencing now is all there is?
It isn't, but it's the only universally true reality. The "reality" you experience on psychedellics is a fictional reality produced by your own thoughts, and while it may feel real, it is not... it is nothing more nor less than a series of neuron firings and neurochemical processes. That is beyond a hypothesis, and even beyond a theory, it is fact. To argue with it is merely stubbornness... there is more than enough factual proof of it to make arguments against it a waste of time. If you can provide reliable data which disproves that fact, then feel free to try and disprove it, such is the path of learning. However, "what if" is not proof, nor is "maybe", nor is "but there's the possibility of". Those are the exact opposite of evidence, they are the products of an idle mind looking for sensationalist explanations of the world in an attempt to seek mysticism, fantasy, excitement, or wonder. And, "but you're not 100% certain, so I am equally as likely to be right" is an argumentative fallacy, so do not allow yourself to think that either. Simply put, the argument which has supporting evidence is far more likely to be correct than the "what if" scenario with little or no evidence being proposed by someone who prefers to adhere to it.
I sound pretty dogmatic by now, but I speak from experience. I've met more people who refuse to accept facts than I care to recall, they're all looking for unlikely answers to questions whose answers are allready known. Why do they do it? Because the answers they fabricate appeal to them more than the fact does, so they delude themselves into beleiving it. It's a very sad part of the human psyche, but what makes it even sadder is how truly ubiquitous it is.
I'll end by saying that I am very pleased to have had a good excuse to use the word "ubiquitous", I love that word. And then I will apologise if I have insulted anyone with my words, but I'm an overly honest man, and I prefer not to phrase things like this gently... I prefer to match the brunt force of reality by using the brunt force of speaking curtly.
--------------------
I find your lack of faith disturbing
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Ekstaza
stranger than most


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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Konnrade]
#5343568 - 02/26/06 11:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konnrade said: I sound pretty dogmatic by now, but I speak from experience. I've met more people who refuse to accept facts than I care to recall, they're all looking for unlikely answers to questions whose answers are allready known. Why do they do it? Because the answers they fabricate appeal to them more than the fact does, so they delude themselves into beleiving it. It's a very sad part of the human psyche, but what makes it even sadder is how truly ubiquitous it is.
I'm so refreshed by such a beautiful voice of reason in a world so full of shit. 
This reasoning can be applied to so many different belief structures.
-------------------- YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.
Edited by Ekstaza (02/26/06 11:00 PM)
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Bleep
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Ekstaza]
#5344059 - 02/27/06 02:34 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I had a very similar experience as the man in the article, that is the realization of the futility of working my ass off to get my SUV and move to the suburbs. I however at the same time as feeling life as meaningless as it was, the love my family had for me and vice versa, not to mention the amount of stuff on this plane I have not experienced. ever plummeted off a 100 foot quarry into a lake, shaved your head bald for no reason or jumped on a moving train just to see where you end up? The only purpose I strive for is new experiences, be it technological, natural, or intellectual. If I actually had believed life is complete working 9 to 5 and watching law and order reruns, I would probably of taken the same route. I believe this is the true purpose of art in the world, not to bring the experiences of oneself to share, but to wake people up to the wonder all around them and to create there own experiences.
God, its good not to be a sheep.
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Konnrade]
#5344779 - 02/27/06 10:26 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konnrade said:
it is nothing more nor less than a series of neuron firings and neurochemical processes
Couldn't that be said to describe this reality as well?
You have never had spiritual experiences with others who see the same things as you? The same things that "don't exist." ? I have. Hundreds of times. And if you could see, you would know that the assemblage point is a very real thing. What about shared dreams? Where you both experience the same thing in a dream? Or out of body experiences? There is indeed more to this reality then we are aware.
How about remote viewing? Are you aware that the CIA has been using remote viewing for decades? Well... they have... This is public knowledge via freedom of information act. Google it. Imagine what they are doing that is classified...
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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sic_zim85
Bach's Bitch

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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: A0999]
#5344861 - 02/27/06 10:51 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
anarchist0999 said: "We just won't have any answers, and we have to learn to accept that," Kathy Chidester said. "But my gut feeling is it was the salvia. It's the only thing that can explain it."
what a bitch. just cause your sons head is fucked dont blame it on salvia(something you know nothing about).
"The site where Brett Chidester got at least one batch sells it in packages dubbed "mind bender," "mood mix" and "freshman selection." It sells a "party pack" of three different strengths of extract, plus four ounces of leaves, for $207.90."
lol, that kid got jacked.
salviasupply.com...those mother fuckers! Well people, I guess it was time that the shit hit the fan and it did. Wont be long now, for shame...:(
=ERik=
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Jfisher
fungusaficionado


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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: mskip23]
#5344899 - 02/27/06 11:06 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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It looks like the kid just didn't bring back what he learned and apply it correctly. That's not so much the drug or experience as it was his mind's reaction to it. If his mindset was life losing meaning, any kind of deeply significant experience could have triggered his reaction.
ignorant users=ignorant laws.
-------------------- Any information written above is purely fictional. Any images do not belong to the owner of this account.
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Tangerines



Registered: 04/17/05
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Jfisher]
#5345073 - 02/27/06 12:18 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Wow this makes me mad. I am going to email the dude who wrote that. I will post his response when I get it.
This is the message I sent the reporter. I hope to get a reply.
[color=#FF0000]All right you think you know salvia you don't. Salvia needs to be respected with utmost regard. It is not a toy. It is a tool and those who harness it correctly (or it harnesses you) learn a great deal from it.
Another note, Salvia is not the strongest natural hallucinogen known to man. Why don't you do some damn research? Aren't you a reporter? Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) is the strongest natural hallucinogen. It is in your brain right now. You get huge bursts of it while you are in the REM stages of your sleep. Some think that it is what causes your entry into the dream world and also accounts for the "light at the end of the tunnel" phenomenon when you die.
Alcohol kills thousands of people every year and affects many more. Why is alcohol legal? Salvia 'supposedly' kills one person and everyone gets all in a ruckus. It is the damn media that influences everyone's opinion. How can one of the most dangerous drugs known to man be legal while a simple plant with some unique characteristics is getting all this attention? LOOK UNDER YOUR NOSE.
Edited by Tangerines (02/27/06 12:29 PM)
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sunshine
Sin18DwireWuTang

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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: A0999]
#5345146 - 02/27/06 12:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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My cousin overdosed on heroin but he really killed himself.
-------------------- One Love True Indeed. Have Good Trips. Mike/sunshine's mom.
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: sunshine]
#5345898 - 02/27/06 03:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Why don't you guys outlaw charcoal?
This guy had suciidal issues and would have considered the same things with or without salvia... it just kind of accelerated it.
This sucks though, I can clearly see how salvia may make someone feel that way, but meaningless and meaningful are two heads on the same coin.
To realize one is to simultaneously realize the other, which I guess is something that he did not do. That's how it seems to me anyway. There's beauty in the dissoance and arbitrary ways of the complete chaos that we find ourselves in.
We put meaning into our own lives, and he chose to take matters into his own hands. It is sad but it's his decision to do and salvia should not be blamed.
What sucks is just on the walk home just now I was having an imaginary argument in my head about why salvia is not a dangerous drug and should not be scheduled to some hypothetical confrontational anti-drug audience. [i have many such dialogues].
Quote:
The site where Brett Chidester got at least one batch sells it in packages dubbed "mind bender," "mood mix" and "freshman selection." It sells a "party pack" of three different strengths of extract, plus four ounces of leaves, for $207.90.
Great, Thank you salvia supply. Fuck.
I know a guy who tried the charcoal method, failed, and seemed to endorse salvia use.... I'm hoping this wasn't him.
edit: also i get the notion that salvia may induce a "life review" kind of thing, not to show you your place in the cosmos, but to show you what THIS life means..... and so yes many people lead meaningless lives, but it does not mean that HUMAN existence in the same thing...
i think he probably should have tried some of the more notable classic hallucinagens to balance out what he was getting from salvia, different drugs show different things.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (02/27/06 03:59 PM)
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Kaleidoscope
Voodoo Child
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: leery11]
#5345953 - 02/27/06 03:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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It saddens me to think things like this get blamed on such wonderful and amazing things. I really have a hard time believing that anything psychedelic in nature could be the causitive factor in someone's decision to end their life. There would have to be something else there that the psychedelics aggrevated or accelerated. Everytime I indulge in one of these mind altering substances they remind me of how unique and great life really is. They make me WANT to live, rather than just not want to die. Obviously some people should not use these things but to blame the drug for that person's actions is insane. You can't blame a chemical for your actions, you can only blame yourself. Unfortunately these days everyone wants to blame everything that happens to them on something other than their own choices or the choices of the individuals around them. It's a very sad thing when people no longer take responsibility for their own decisions or accept the decisions of those around them. It's a shame this lad decided to end his life, but to say that he is not responsible for what he did is just more propagation of the lunacy that society indulges in to make themselves feel better. This lack of personal responsibility in America these days is far more destructive than any drug.
--------------------
Purple haze, all in my brain, lately things just don't seem the same. Actin' funny but I don't know why, 'scuse me while I kiss the sky.
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lga0302
Stranger
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Kaleidoscope]
#5346167 - 02/27/06 04:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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great, i like smoking salvia every now and then. oh well kiss that shit goodbye
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: lga0302]
#5346490 - 02/27/06 06:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
lga0302 said: great, i like smoking salvia every now and then. oh well kiss that shit goodbye
grow your own. ensure survival of this plant. If the plant has helped you... then maybe its your turn to help it...
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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powerpak14
Stranger
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5347007 - 02/27/06 08:21 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Personally I don't like Salvia, also I don't like what is going on here. It has happened before with weed, lsd, mdma, shrooms. As soon as it starts to get popular The Establishment begins to notice...then something like this happens, and the media blows it out of proportion. This just goes to show how ignorant and close minded The Establishment really is. They always tend to make something they don't like illegal no matter what they know about it... and usually they know nothing. And this whole salvia situation proves this point even further.
Oh yea, and konnrade, I really like what you are saying about the whole "reality and phsycadelics" thing.
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ClammyJoe
Azurescen Head



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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: powerpak14]
#5347069 - 02/27/06 08:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Can people so ignorant as to think that this plant somehow took control of his body and mind from him, and made him kill himself? People need to stop settling for what their told, and they need to think and look for themselves before that pass judgment on anything, this country is full of media controlled minds, not that they have no choice, but they are either too lazy or scared to find out what everything is about. They would rather sit at home drinking their coke on the couch than be out seeing for themselves what this world is about.
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA



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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Tangerines]
#5347075 - 02/27/06 08:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tangerines said: Wow this makes me mad. I am going to email the dude who wrote that. I will post his response when I get it.
This is the message I sent the reporter. I hope to get a reply.
[color=#FF0000]All right you think you know salvia you don't. Salvia needs to be respected with utmost regard. It is not a toy. It is a tool and those who harness it correctly (or it harnesses you) learn a great deal from it.
Another note, Salvia is not the strongest natural hallucinogen known to man. Why don't you do some damn research? Aren't you a reporter? Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) is the strongest natural hallucinogen. It is in your brain right now. You get huge bursts of it while you are in the REM stages of your sleep. Some think that it is what causes your entry into the dream world and also accounts for the "light at the end of the tunnel" phenomenon when you die.
Alcohol kills thousands of people every year and affects many more. Why is alcohol legal? Salvia 'supposedly' kills one person and everyone gets all in a ruckus. It is the damn media that influences everyone's opinion. How can one of the most dangerous drugs known to man be legal while a simple plant with some unique characteristics is getting all this attention? LOOK UNDER YOUR NOSE.
I hate to be mean, but your e-mail makes you sound like a stereotype. He's probably going to have a good laugh at you and then delete it or send a canned reply. You can't talk to the average person the way you talk to the rest of us on the shroomery, you need to take into account the fact that when he reads your e-mail he will be specifically looking for reasons to assume you're full of shit. This is even more true with reporters, it's their job to sniff out bullshit. They don't always succeed, but all the honest ones will try their best. From the perspective of a person with an anti-drug opinion, your e-mail reeks of reasons to call it bullshit.
Quote:
EquilibriuM said:
Quote:
Konnrade said:
it is nothing more nor less than a series of neuron firings and neurochemical processes
Couldn't that be said to describe this reality as well?
You have never had spiritual experiences with others who see the same things as you? The same things that "don't exist." ? I have. Hundreds of times. And if you could see, you would know that the assemblage point is a very real thing. What about shared dreams? Where you both experience the same thing in a dream? Or out of body experiences? There is indeed more to this reality then we are aware.
How about remote viewing? Are you aware that the CIA has been using remote viewing for decades? Well... they have... This is public knowledge via freedom of information act. Google it. Imagine what they are doing that is classified...
Quote:
Konnrade said: If you can provide reliable data which disproves that fact, then feel free to try and disprove it, such is the path of learning. However, "what if" is not proof, nor is "maybe", nor is "but there's the possibility of". Those are the exact opposite of evidence, they are the products of an idle mind looking for sensationalist explanations of the world in an attempt to seek mysticism, fantasy, excitement, or wonder.
You're trying to use a question as evidence. Questions aren't evidence, they're questions. I have most definitely heard of remote viewing (I used to listen to Coast to Coast AM too ). Nonetheless, what you're saying isn't data, it's an observation mixed with speculation, there is a difference. You are, right now, in only the first step of the scientific method and are grasping at ideas to move onto the second step with. It's an intriguing subject, but until someone actually takes the time to study it it's just a bunch of hobbyist philosophy.
And, I feel compelled to point out that philisophy is most often neither a science nor an art, it's exactly that: a hobby. It is a hobby wherein people try to think of questions that cannot be answered. They usually then try to answer them with evidence that cannot be proven. It's a fairly vicious cycle of speculation.
And, I might add... how does remote viewing have anything to do with you claiming that hallucinations are a different reality? They're just a perceived effect, SO IS REMOTE VIEWING. The mind may posess a capacity we do not recognize yet that allows it to see a distant location, but that distant location is ALSO just the same reality as normal, perceived in a different way. Do you not understand this? It is not hard to wrap your mind around this, and it does make good sense.
If doctors installed a prosthetic eye in a blind person, and wired it to their brain, allowing them to see (and they had never seen before), did those scientists just teleport the blind person into a bizarre new reality where they can actually see things? For god's sake, NO. In the same way, when people explore a new sense that allows them to see remotely, they are not somehow warping their mind into some fanciful new dimension, they would just be utilizing one of their senses. It's like being able to smell what a sandwitch smells like for god's sake. There's nothing mystical about being able to smell my cat taking a shit, and there's nothing mystical about the human senses... not even the ones that paranormal enthusiasts like to gossip about.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
Edited by Konnrade (02/27/06 08:56 PM)
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Konnrade]
#5347160 - 02/27/06 09:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konnrade said:
Quote:
EquilibriuM said:
Quote:
Konnrade said:
it is nothing more nor less than a series of neuron firings and neurochemical processes
Couldn't that be said to describe this reality as well?
You have never had spiritual experiences with others who see the same things as you? The same things that "don't exist." ? I have. Hundreds of times. And if you could see, you would know that the assemblage point is a very real thing. What about shared dreams? Where you both experience the same thing in a dream? Or out of body experiences? There is indeed more to this reality then we are aware.
How about remote viewing? Are you aware that the CIA has been using remote viewing for decades? Well... they have... This is public knowledge via freedom of information act. Google it. Imagine what they are doing that is classified...
Quote:
Konnrade said: If you can provide reliable data which disproves that fact, then feel free to try and disprove it, such is the path of learning. However, "what if" is not proof, nor is "maybe", nor is "but there's the possibility of". Those are the exact opposite of evidence, they are the products of an idle mind looking for sensationalist explanations of the world in an attempt to seek mysticism, fantasy, excitement, or wonder.
You're trying to use a question as evidence. Questions aren't evidence, they're questions. I have most definitely heard of remote viewing (I used to listen to Coast to Coast AM too ). Nonetheless, what you're saying isn't data, it's an observation mixed with speculation, there is a difference. You are, right now, in only the first step of the scientific method and are grasping at ideas to move onto the second step with. It's an intriguing subject, but until someone actually takes the time to study it it's just a bunch of hobbyist philosophy.
And, I feel compelled to point out that philisophy is most often neither a science nor an art, it's exactly that: a hobby. It is a hobby wherein people try to think of questions that cannot be answered. They usually then try to answer them with evidence that cannot be proven. It's a fairly vicious cycle of speculation.
And, I might add... how does remote viewing have anything to do with you claiming that hallucinations are a different reality? They're just a perceived effect, SO IS REMOTE VIEWING. The mind may posess a capacity we do not recognize yet that allows it to see a distant location, but that distant location is ALSO just the same reality as normal, perceived in a different way. Do you not understand this? It is not hard to wrap your mind around this, and it does make good sense.
If doctors installed a prosthetic eye in a blind person, and wired it to their brain, allowing them to see (and they had never seen before), did those scientists just teleport the blind person into a bizarre new reality where they can actually see things? For god's sake, NO. In the same way, when people explore a new sense that allows them to see remotely, they are not somehow warping their mind into some fanciful new dimension, they would just be utilizing one of their senses. It's like being able to smell what a sandwitch smells like for god's sake. There's nothing mystical about the human senses, not even the ones that paranormal enthusiasts like to gossip about.
You misunderstand me... I didn't say remote viewing is a different reality... And of course the fucking lady isn't in a different reality because she has a fake eye... come on man... I'm not trying to present evidence. I'm trying to show you the light. SCIENCE DOES NOT EXIST IN THE SECOND ATTENTION. Try to wrap that around your head So you can take all your "scientific method this and science that" talk and throw it out the window... The only way for science to work in the second attention would include the scientists being in the second attention. You would need a device that could shift the assemblage point to specific positions and hold it in place. Thank god people are already working on such ideas. Hopefully something will be created within the next 30 years or so that can do this. It will change the world - If the governments allow it...
BTW - you got a rating.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
Edited by EquilibriuM (02/27/06 09:07 PM)
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InTheFlesh714
Drunk

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 958
Loc: (714)
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5347186 - 02/27/06 09:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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wow, i couldnt read all the other posts. but i saw this coming from a mile away. and of course "THAT salvia" killed him. the kids dad didnt even know what it was. salvia has helped me many ways, and out of all the ways to commut suicide, i think what that kid did was pretty sad.
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aDoS
freedom lover


Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 7,590
Loc: land of the free
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: InTheFlesh714]
#5347530 - 02/27/06 10:36 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Those parents are so dumb, the kid was probably just depressed or somthing, theres plenty of other reasons why people kill themselves besides being "on drugs".
-------------------- "If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH
Edited by aDoS (02/27/06 10:37 PM)
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Kaleidoscope
Voodoo Child
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 674
Loc: the 28th dimension
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: aDoS]
#5347691 - 02/27/06 11:15 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I reworked my post into an e-mail and sent it to that reporter
Quote:
In your article on the death of Brett Chidester, I can't help but notice that either you did very little research on the experience or the plant itself or you are demonizing it with untrue information intentionally. I have no problems with you having your own opinions on certain substances but I believe you have a responsibility to report correct information about the subjects you cover. First off, Salvinorin A is not the most potent naturally occurring psychedelic or hallucinogen, n,n-DMT or dimethyltryptamine holds that position, being an active component in the ayahuasca brews used by shamans in the Amazon. The effects of salvia divinorum are also not even close to those of LSD. To include in your title that it is an LSD-like drug is irresponsible. LSD's effects last for up to or longer than 12 hours. Salvia's last 10 to 20 mintues. LSD allows the user to be active and endanger themself while under the influence of it, salvia allows for no such thing. It is not something that he could have used then killed himself while under the influence of it as it induces a sort of trance that makes movement impossible. It saddens me to think things like this get blamed on such wonderful and amazing things that have been used safely for thousands of years to bring about religous experiences. I really have a hard time believing that anything psychedelic in nature could be the causative factor in someone's decision to end their life. There would have to be something else there that the psychedelics aggravated or accelerated. Every time I indulge in one of these mind altering substances they remind me of how unique and great life really is. They make me WANT to live, rather than just not want to die. Obviously some people should not use these things but to blame the drug for that person's actions is insane. You can't blame a chemical for your actions, you can only blame yourself. If chemicals are to be blamed, why do we have the ability to legally purchase and consume alcohol, a terrible, addictive drug that kills thousands a year outright. Unfortunately these days everyone wants to blame everything that happens to them on something other than their own choices or the choices of the individuals around them. It's a very sad thing when people no longer take responsibility for their own decisions or accept the decisions of those around them. It's a shame this lad decided to end his life, but to say that he is not responsible for what he did because he smoked an herb that has been used for thousands of years is just more propagation of the lunacy that society indulges in to make themselves feel better. This lack of personal responsibility in America these days is far more destructive than any drug.
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Purple haze, all in my brain, lately things just don't seem the same. Actin' funny but I don't know why, 'scuse me while I kiss the sky.
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Hypercube
80 SRM



Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 814
Last seen: 11 years, 22 days
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: aDoS]
#5347704 - 02/27/06 11:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Konnrade,
If I may join the fray...
Let me begin by pointing out the religious conviction of the scientific mind. The scientific method ASSUMES the existence of truth (read "reality"), and employs the cognitive (mis)understandings of causation and individuation to "prove" or "qualify" the assumed truth. Now, tell me how this differs in any substantial way from ASSUMING a god, and employing the (mis)understandings of instinctive morality and miracles to "prove" or "qualify" his existence. I'm not saying that god doesn't exist - - I have no evidence for or against - - but I also reserve judgement on the existence of truth or reality for the same reason. The concrete truth of an agreed-upon reality which science has so convincingly "affirmed" is nothing more than what works for modern minds. Science seems like the only solid thing to believe in; it has given us all sorts of practical abilities in the realm of action we normally exist in (...or was that god?)
But the suspicion remains. Perhaps due to the fact that each new "development" in science is a destructive force; destroying previously held beliefs while simultaneously raising multiple new questions. It seems as if the bridge being built by the scientific method continually collapses from behind us while the truth on the other side of the river fades into obscurity.
Remember that merely 200 years ago, people thought they had the universe pretty much figured out. Now that we've disproved much of THEIR "knowledge," we think we have the universe pretty much figured out. In another 200 years I expect some to look upon present sentiment with similar distaste and arrogance. Or perhaps some will realize that there IS no universal truth, that what we have always CALLED truth is no less subjective than musical taste, and that any statement of "eternal law" or "fact" is merely the consentual interpretation of an indescribably stupefying chaos.
:EDIT: Wow, I got carried away. This WAS a thread about salvia. Shall we continue this discussion in phil/spir guys?
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KidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 1,501
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Hypercube]
#5347737 - 02/27/06 11:31 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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the kids a dumb ass; his death was pretty forseable if you ask me.
-------------------- Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA



Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
Loc: LA Suburbs
Last seen: 8 months, 26 days
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Hypercube]
#5347911 - 02/28/06 12:40 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hypercube said: Konnrade,
If I may join the fray...
Let me begin by pointing out the religious conviction of the scientific mind. The scientific method ASSUMES the existence of truth (read "reality"), and employs the cognitive (mis)understandings of causation and individuation to "prove" or "qualify" the assumed truth. Now, tell me how this differs in any substantial way from ASSUMING a god, and employing the (mis)understandings of instinctive morality and miracles to "prove" or "qualify" his existence. I'm not saying that god doesn't exist - - I have no evidence for or against - - but I also reserve judgement on the existence of truth or reality for the same reason. The concrete truth of an agreed-upon reality which science has so convincingly "affirmed" is nothing more than what works for modern minds. Science seems like the only solid thing to believe in; it has given us all sorts of practical abilities in the realm of action we normally exist in (...or was that god?)
But the suspicion remains. Perhaps due to the fact that each new "development" in science is a destructive force; destroying previously held beliefs while simultaneously raising multiple new questions. It seems as if the bridge being built by the scientific method continually collapses from behind us while the truth on the other side of the river fades into obscurity.
Remember that merely 200 years ago, people thought they had the universe pretty much figured out. Now that we've disproved much of THEIR "knowledge," we think we have the universe pretty much figured out. In another 200 years I expect some to look upon present sentiment with similar distaste and arrogance. Or perhaps some will realize that there IS no universal truth, that what we have always CALLED truth is no less subjective than musical taste, and that any statement of "eternal law" or "fact" is merely the consentual interpretation of an indescribably stupefying chaos.
:EDIT: Wow, I got carried away. This WAS a thread about salvia. Shall we continue this discussion in phil/spir guys?
I have to admit this is getting a bit deeper into philosophical debates than I am able to keep up with. I'm all about fact, so I'm not very good with philosophy, at all.
But about the destructive/constructive nature of science. yes, it certainly does tear down the past quite often, but that's a good thing. With each new iteration of understanding, some of the previous understanding is destroyed, but is replaced with a more logical explanation.
Yes, that does of course mean that it's entirely possible for today's "fact" to be incorrect. But the thing about the way science works is that we can assume something is fact right now due to there not being enough evidence to say it isn't. The most sensible thing is to utilize the current understanding of fact unless it is proven wrong.
It's worked fairly well until now, \when mankind is wrong, he find evidence that he is, and his understanding evolves. It's very similar to the way that nature evolves. I've never seen anyone come up with a better way of doing things.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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agoutihead


Registered: 11/11/05
Posts: 1,449
Last seen: 6 years, 7 days
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: Konnrade]
#5348420 - 02/28/06 07:01 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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at the symposium, all of the main speakers actually said that the realities and dimensions we go to are actually real when on a psychedelic.
He said the "beings" we encounter there are real as well.
(why do you think salvia is often referred to as a "she")
This came from the forefathers of psychedelics, the ones who were able to have the best product whenever they want, and to explore it as deep as possible.
the greatest minds in the world were really at that convention.
i wish it could have last forever.
it really was quite unbelievable.
obviously everything for every person is taken differently and needs to be taken with a grain of salt....
but you cannot deny what psychedelics do to you is a very special, and odd thing.
why do you think so many people over the thousands of years have paid worship to gods through psychedelics?
were they all clinically insane to think that the reality they were experiencing was real?
i dont think so.
its all about perception.
-------------------- "When I'm on LSD and hearing something that's pure rhythm, it takes me to another world and into anther brain state where I've stopped thinking and started knowing" - Kevin Herbert "Psychedelics let you see the world through a child's eye." "Experience the liquid realm..." "The evolution of mankind is in the alteration of consciousness" - Dr. Albert Hofmann
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acidtripper8
Stranger


Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 65
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: mskip23]
#5385005 - 03/10/06 10:15 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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i knew that kid, sucks for him and his family but i never liked him. i dont think that salvia was his problem either
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LSAsshole
Sacrificial Goat Manure


Registered: 03/20/13
Posts: 19
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: mskip23]
#17990750 - 03/21/13 05:27 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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if anything he would smoke salvia and blow his mind and never ever do it again if he cant handle life salvias not that kind of drug nobody actually likes salvia unless you pussy puff it if he was tripping hard enough to kill kill himself under the influence of something like salvia he wouldnt even be able to unnder such a heavy force altho i could see it as a breakthru tool to fully break thru to the beyond and completely open yourself for death and chaos if it was a PLANNED religious suicide in which case you couldnt really blame the fifteen minute balls to the wall novelty herb for something that was clearly deeper rooted deeper than even knowing what that stuff is
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Denisius
Comrade


Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 142
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Re: LSD-like herb blamed in Delaware teen's suicide [Re: LSAsshole]
#17992732 - 03/22/13 12:23 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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"LSD-like herb"? Salvia D?
Jesus Christ, the idiots leading the willfully ignorant.
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