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InvisibleJim
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Registered: 04/07/04
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Coffee, anyone?
    #5340163 - 02/26/06 04:48 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

>>??


--------------------
Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit!

afoaf said:
Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.


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Offlinestefan
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Jim]
    #5340166 - 02/26/06 04:51 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

yes please, I could use another one :thumbup: :laugh:


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: stefan]
    #5340178 - 02/26/06 05:23 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

anybody starting to notice just how bad coffee is for you and how much damage it's really doing?


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5340181 - 02/26/06 05:34 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mitchnast said:
anybody starting to notice just how bad coffee is for you and how much damage it's really doing?




Eh? Is this based on quantifiable information, or just some kind of vague feeling?

Coffee obviously shouldn't be abused, but there's plenty of evidence that it actually has health benefits when used safely. Like lots of things.
http://www.mothernature.com/Library/articles/index.cfm/id/24838


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Phluck]
    #5340187 - 02/26/06 05:48 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

the site is selling coffee.

"some kind of vague feeling"

I'm an addict and cannot function withought it. you say "vague" I only drink 2 cups a day, sometimes less.

"Causes insomnia, anxiety, and irritability." effectively outweighs ANY preceived benefit.

do you know how bad insomnia and anxiety are? they are like the WORST two things ever. they shave decades off your life.
and coffee DIRECTLY creates this situation.


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5340196 - 02/26/06 06:01 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

caffiene and nicotine have been shown to be neuroprotective
-cant say the same for the heart-


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OfflineAislingGheal
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5340199 - 02/26/06 06:05 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I'll drink to that :coffee:


--------------------

"I hate having to pick between the lesser of two evils. But I'm glad Obama was elected. McCain was another war monger. I'd rather deal with our country going into debt than trying to take on afghanistan...oh wait FUCK!" - Fungus_tao


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5340206 - 02/26/06 06:12 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Benefits:
? May reduce the risk of suicide among women.
? Helps prevent gallstones and symptomatic gallbladder disease in men.
? Contains caffeine-related compounds (theophylline) that can alleviate the symptoms of asthma in some cases.
? Can increase alertness and prolong waking hours.
? May improve short-term recall.
? Promotes the effectiveness of certain migraine drugs.
? May reduce the risk of cirrhosis of the liver among heavy drinkers.
? May postpone muscle fatigue and thus enhance athletic performance and endurance.
? May protect against free radical damage to tissues ? one study found that coffee has more antioxidant activity than red wine, green or black tea, or orange juice.

Risks:
? Increases blood pressure among people with high blood pressure.
? Causes insomnia, anxiety, and irritability.
? May worsen symptoms of PMS in some women.
? Can reduce fertility in women trying to conceive.
? Can cause heartburn and indigestion.
? May increase the risk of osteoporosis in postmenopausal women.
? May increase blood levels of homocysteine and the associated risk of cardiovascular disease.

of the risk list, i suffer from those that pertain to men.
of the benifit list, the same can be said, but i also do not have asthma or gallstones, nor am I a heavy drinker nor athelete. so I suppose the benefit is that coffee makes me "alert"

However im up most of the night with acid reflux and sometimes wake up with axiety so bad that I feel like just getting up and punching myself in the face, I can't wake in the morning, at least not withought a coffee.
if I have high blood pressure, im sure coffee is making it higher, not to mention the sleep depravation and stress.
funny, i feel a burning inside, and a certain grouchyness, and if i drink coffee, its gone, poof, cured.
but i diddnt have that burn and that grump before i started drinking coffee. I call that dependance. and therefore damage. doesn't seem vague to me.

2 cups a day or less, thats all. Im quite sure that falls under "safe" practices.

oh, and i really like this one "May increase blood levels of homocysteine and the associated risk of cardiovascular disease."

thats like saying snorting coke doesn't hurt you, its the cardiac complications associated with stimulants that get you.


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5340217 - 02/26/06 06:29 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Mitchnast, have u tried Yerba Mate?

it has a different active chemical called Mateine
http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/yer_02.htm


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OfflineDadeMurphy
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: fresh313]
    #5340218 - 02/26/06 06:31 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)



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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: fresh313]
    #5340222 - 02/26/06 06:37 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

yA, its an infinitely debatable point Dade
the only true way is a bio-assay


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #5340223 - 02/26/06 06:37 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

just what i need :P


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OfflineDadeMurphy
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: fresh313]
    #5340228 - 02/26/06 06:49 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

What's debatable there? Erowid's chemistry appears sound, there ARE NO STEREOISOMERS possible for caffeine. Therefore, tests that indicated the presence of caffeine in mate cannot be faulted on the argument that they were actually detecting some stereoisomer of caffeine (mateine), since no such isomer exists.

Unless someone can point to a study that identifies a truly unique structure for this supposedely unique compound, then there is no argument to be made. No bioassay necessary.

The fact is that a subjective bioassay would be confounded by many other factors such as the presence/concentration of other active xanthines, and the idiosyncracies of the individual.


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #5340232 - 02/26/06 06:55 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

so what you are saying is the stimulant in yerba mate is simple caffine because caffine has no variants?



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InvisibleRipple
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Jim]
    #5340241 - 02/26/06 07:06 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I'll have a cup Jim!!


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The bus came by and I got on that's when it all began!



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5340242 - 02/26/06 07:09 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mitchnast said:
"Causes insomnia, anxiety, and irritability." effectively outweighs ANY preceived benefit.

do you know how bad insomnia and anxiety are? they are like the WORST two things ever. they shave decades off your life.
and coffee DIRECTLY creates this situation.




this depends on your personality type, for me coffee is a relaxant, I dont
suffer from insomnia, anxiety ot irritability when I drink coffee, I say I'm
addicted but in all honesty I dont suffer from withdrawal symptoms when I go
several days without the 'drug' in the years before my heavy coffee use I did
suffer from anxiety and insomnia, coffee doesnt create these peoblems, your mind does


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5340691 - 02/26/06 11:27 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Like, I'm so sure I just convince myself that I have bad heartburn, and the Tums? a placebo.  somehow I just convinced myself that it ONLY happens exactly 2 hours after I drink coffee, what a TRULY complicated creature I am.
Also its now clear to me that im only thinking that i'm so tired I can hardly keep my head up withought the mental suggestion of having had a cup of coffee.

That sick twitchy headache nervous feeling I get in the middle of the night? oh thats just my personality interfereing with my sleep cycles, my bodies natural defence against good health.
furthermore, coffee doesn't make you temporarily  "alert" either, it simply gives you a vice to convince yourself MENTALLY that you are somehow awake.  And heart disease? eh, people who die obviously just lack faith. hey, I should start drinking decaf, that should keep me awake, after all, its all mental anyway.

Stimulants don't have negative effects, it's all in my head, yah.

man, why am I so messed up? here I am saying I'm dependant on caffine when really it's %100 my personality type?

How about I switch to decaf?
for a week, and we will see if I still have the anxiety.
I've done it before, for the first few days I will be pretty damn tired, but I will be able to sleep anxiety-free.
I will post about how things have changed, if im still feeling the axiety, I will be honest.

logically if coffee doesnt negatively effect my mind, I should still be up half the night.

Or am i just doomed to be always wrong about myself because of my sensitive-reactive stress-actualizing personality type?  :smile:


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InvisibleBoom
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Jim]
    #5340739 - 02/26/06 11:45 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I like coffee.  I like smoking and drinking a steaming cup of black coffee. :drooling:


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OfflineInjectTruth
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Boom]
    #5340814 - 02/26/06 12:10 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Word, Boooom. I love how the flavor of a dutchmaster filled with dank and hash swirls and comingles with my slightly sweetened black hazelnut coffee.


--------------------
On a personal level, Freaking Out is a process whereby an
individual casts off outmoded and restricting standars of
thinking, dress, and social etiquette in order to express
CREATIVELY his relationship to his immediate environment and
the social structure as a whole.

http://www.OrganicPharming.com - Ethno Shopping Portal


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Invisiblesui
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Boom]
    #5340834 - 02/26/06 12:14 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Booooom said:
I like coffee.  I like smoking and drinking a steaming cup of black coffee. :drooling:




--------------------

"There is never a wrong note, bend it."
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InvisibleBoom
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: InjectTruth]
    #5340838 - 02/26/06 12:15 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It's so rich and luxurious :yesnod:


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OfflineInjectTruth
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Boom]
    #5340907 - 02/26/06 12:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Damn straight.


--------------------
On a personal level, Freaking Out is a process whereby an
individual casts off outmoded and restricting standars of
thinking, dress, and social etiquette in order to express
CREATIVELY his relationship to his immediate environment and
the social structure as a whole.

http://www.OrganicPharming.com - Ethno Shopping Portal


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OfflineNoviseer
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Boom]
    #5340921 - 02/26/06 12:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I'm on the adderall and coffee all day, xanax at night plan until I finish midterms this wednesday.  Then I plan on switching to the sleep in till three and get drunk all afternoon and night plan  :alc:

But for now, more coffee please  :coffee: :donut:

Doug is bouncing off the walls
Ray is drooling big spit balls
Bill is breaking large objects

Kids on coffee

Where's my Bonus Cup?
Come on man, fill me up
I need some Krappers to wash it down
Bonus Bonus Bonus!!!

Went driving down to San Diego
Passing by the nuclear tits
Go away off my earth!!!

Kids on Coffee!


--------------------
_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
_________________________________________________________________


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5341108 - 02/26/06 01:34 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mitchnast said:
Like, I'm so sure I just convince myself that I have bad heartburn, and the Tums? a placebo.




I didnt say it was a placebo, like any drug the effects varry, I personaly hav
only had heartburn about 5 times in my 38 years, none of those times can be
atributed to coffee, sounds like you may have other gastro problems that
the coffee is aggravating.


Quote:

That sick twitchy headache nervous feeling I get in the middle of the night? oh thats just my personality interfereing with my sleep cycles, my bodies natural defence against good health.




in introverted people it tends to act more as a stimulant than in extroverts,
with the latter it tends to act as a depressant, think ritalin. as for a
'natrural defence against good health', studies indicate that cocoa and caffiene
bith contain antioxidants and that coffee reduces the risks of parkinsons in
addition to other health benefits

Quote:

furthermore, coffee doesn't make you temporarily "alert" either, it simply gives you a vice to convince yourself MENTALLY that you are somehow awake. And heart disease? eh, people who die obviously just lack faith. hey, I should start drinking decaf, that should keep me awake, after all, its all mental anyway.




Quote:

Recent research in Melbourne suggests that caffeine consumption may be tied in with personality differences including mood, or whether a person is a night owl or a lark (early morning person).

As the result of a questionnaire Dr Paula Mitchell found that so-called "night owls" or extreme evening people had much higher levels of caffeine usage than "larks" or extreme morning people. (Extreme evening people and extreme morning people each account for about 10% of the population). The evening people also scored higher on both the extroversion scale and the impulsivity, risk-taking scale. They typically find it difficult to get up in the morning and give themselves big hits of caffeine to wake themselves up. (It's quite possible they are actually suffering from caffeine withdrawal. In other words if they hadn't been drinking coffee the night before they may not have felt like this in the morning.)

Dr Mitchell also says there may be a link between extrovert behaviour and higher caffeine usage.

Caffeine seems to disrupt the body clock rhythms of extreme morning people. By contast the rhythms of the evening types are disturbed by the absence of caffeine. Dr Mitchell believes evening people use caffeine to keep their rhythms regular.

One of the strongest findings was that if morning people had caffeine after about 10am, their mood went down quite dramatically. This could be because caffeine has disrupted their underlying rhythms.
http://www.abc.net.au/quantum/poison/caffeine/caffeine.htm />



the study that was done in the 60s that showed an increase in risk for heart disease was done in an aberated manor, there was no control group, most of
the subjects were also smokers

Quote:

Stimulants don't have negative effects, it's all in my head, yah.




as a matter of fact it is all in your head, thats where all this activity is taking place

Quote:

man, why am I so messed up? here I am saying I'm dependant on caffine when really it's %100 my personality type?




dependance on any substance is all about personality type, some people can drink heavily and become addicted to it others can drink without the addiction


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5341228 - 02/26/06 02:18 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

im pretty sure that chronic fatigue isn't going to change if i have a different personality.

I bet it will however if I sleep well at night, and dispite research to the contrary, I already know I sleep better when I'm not influenced by caffine.

I don't see any reason to beleive the information presented as it contradicts that which i've personally experienced to be true.
also, Does the average chronically dehydrated person (over 70% of the population) REALLY get any benifit from something that is formost a powerful diarrhetic?
what good are antioxidants for saving us from a future hypothetical illness while caffine is turning off our bodies ability to use vitamin B?  thats right, caffine COMPLETELY stops  ALL the vatimin B.
(B1), riboflavin (B2), niacin (B3), pyridoxine (B6), folic acid (B9), cyanocobalamin (B12), pantothenic acid and biotin
you also take a BIG bite out of your calcium absobtion.
that would explain why i never had cavities untill i started drinking coffee. sure the sugar could do it, but then i USED to eat candy all the time and was fine.

lead is good for you in some quantity too, but we aren't meant to drink it. theres benign and more viable places to get antioxidants, such as cranberries and apples.
also, you can get your antioxidants from decaf, which is the only way it will be benificial because caffine is PRO-INFLAMITORY and the antioxidants get used up fighting tissue damage caused by the caffine anyway.

ohyeah ohyeah :smile:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5341300 - 02/26/06 02:46 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mitchnast said:
im pretty sure that chronic fatigue isn't going to change if i have a different personality.




you might be suprised, chronic fatigue is also indicative of other problems like
depression, can I ask, do you smoke pot?


Quote:

I don't see any reason to beleive the information presented as it contradicts that which i've personally experienced to be true.
also, Does the average chronically dehydrated person (over 70% of the population) REALLY get any benifit from something that is formost a powerful diarrhetic?




I drink anywhere from 1/2 gallon to 1 gallon of coffee per day, if it were
truely a dehydrating me then I'd have died years ago, I piss on average
about 200ml and only 2-3 times per day, of course you wont believe the studies
but will you be willing to believe the drug affects each person differently?

Quote:

what good are antioxidants for saving us from a future hypothetical illness while caffine is turning off our bodies ability to use vitamin B?




why is caffiene used in pain relievers? it's known to eliminate/reduce headaches
did you know that most b complex vitamins group are 'stimulants'? and as such
are used to help combat fatigue and improve energy, memory, muscle tone, etc...
by all rights I should be suffering from many ailments because of my intake
of coffee but I dont, my iron levels are high, no fatigue or any other things
you seem to be suffering from

did you know that almost everything including antacids, antibiotics, mineral oil
steriodal hormones, antidepressants, estrogen, oral contraceptives, sulfa drugs,
alcohol and laxatives block the absorption of many nutrients by the body, in
fact many of the nutrients themselve block the absorption of others, just
cooking your food destroys many of the available nutrients...



Quote:

lead is good for you in some quantity too
also, you can get your antioxidants from decaf, which is the only way it will be benificial because caffine is PRO-INFLAMITORY and the antioxidants get used up fighting tissue damage caused by the caffine anyway.





care to back this up?


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5341466 - 02/26/06 03:25 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mitchnast said:
so what you are saying is the stimulant in yerba mate is simple caffine because caffine has no variants?






thats the shit, took me a second to figure it out
spiders shouldn't be doin drugs in the wanna eat


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Offlinefour_winds
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Jim]
    #5341473 - 02/26/06 03:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Jim, did Ythan decide to hook you up with the name change?
If he didn't let me know and I will drop him a line for you.
What is up today


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InvisibleJim
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: four_winds]
    #5341605 - 02/26/06 03:56 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

no... my name is still the same.

not too much is up today.

going to go to shopping with the lady friend a little later for groceries and then head to the reservation where we will get tobacco and gas.


--------------------
Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit!

afoaf said:
Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.


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Offlinefour_winds
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Jim]
    #5341616 - 02/26/06 03:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Oh cool.
I woke up, took a shower, at four strawberries.
Then my friend called me and said he had some good powdered donuts.
So, while I was eating those over the course of three hours I got a TON of cleaning done in my room, and also moved some furnature into, and around.
Now I am just like HMM, trying to finish the rest of this donut. ANd bored.


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InvisibleJim
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: four_winds]
    #5341627 - 02/26/06 04:01 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I just have to keep my mouth shut when her and I go...

We broke up a few weeks ago, and she is stressed out with school, so I dont want to be a dumbass and pressure her or make her feel uncomfortable.


--------------------
Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit!

afoaf said:
Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Jim]
    #5342003 - 02/26/06 05:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

i havent smoked pot in over a month. and over a month before that.
so as for the question "do i smoke pot" i guess the answer is yes, ive nothing against it, but compared to most people on here i never touch it.
why? does that make me depressed? because of all things, i'm not going through depression. I've been there, but not for at least a year.

as for caffine being proinflammatory. sorry, cant find it for some goddamn reason. but it was there this morning.
it does cause adrenal exhaustion which makes you PRONE to inflammatory illness. but sorry, I can't back up the direct link. But i will tell you it was something like caffine inhibits the release of "anti-inflammatory cytokines"
way over my head, maybe you can clear up the relation.
I'm really going off a strangers statement, looking at the actual science of it, it's all greek to me.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5342006 - 02/26/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mitchnast said:
the site is selling coffee.

"some kind of vague feeling"

I'm an addict and cannot function withought it. you say "vague" I only drink 2 cups a day, sometimes less.

"Causes insomnia, anxiety, and irritability." effectively outweighs ANY preceived benefit.

do you know how bad insomnia and anxiety are? they are like the WORST two things ever. they shave decades off your life.
and coffee DIRECTLY creates this situation.




Lots of people drink coffee without experiencing insomnia or and abnormal amount of anxiety or irritability. Those things CAN shave years off your life... if you're suffering from enough of them to be a serious problem. Coffee doesn't necessarily cause those problems in a severe degree.

I really don't think insomnia and anxiety are the "worst things ever", or that they necessarily shave decades off your life. They aren't good for you, but they certainly aren't as bad as you make them sound. If they were, there would be evidence that coffee drinkers live DECADES less than non-coffee drinkers. There is no such evidence.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5342048 - 02/26/06 05:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mitchnast said:
i havent smoked pot in over a month. and over a month before that.
so as for the question "do i smoke pot" i guess the answer is yes, ive nothing against it, but compared to most people on here i never touch it.
why? does that make me depressed? because of all things, i'm not going through depression. I've been there, but not for at least a year.




just trying to establish a baseline, I'm an occasional smoker as well, whens the last time you experienced any of the coffee related side effects

Quote:

as for caffine being proinflammatory. sorry, cant find it for some goddamn reason. but it was there this morning.
I'm really going off a strangers statement, looking at the actual science of it, it's all greek to me.




I'll search for it, in the mean time heres something I found interesting

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-08/acs-cin081905.php
http://www.health.harvard.edu/press_releases/coffee_health_risk.htm


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Invisibleblink
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5342195 - 02/26/06 06:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I'd have some, but I'd be up all night...


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OfflineEarthDroid
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Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 409
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: blink]
    #5342233 - 02/26/06 06:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Coffee has been a help for my schooling.


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OfflineMitchnast
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Registered: 10/27/99
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Phluck]
    #5342557 - 02/26/06 07:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

ok, then how about sleep depravation and stress?
If i wer to word it that way would you aggree those "shave" decades from your life.

because i beleive its rather a simple task to find that stress is detremental to health.

heck, it's fatal in most lesser animals.


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OfflineMitchnast
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Posts: 8,656
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Re: Coffee, anyone? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5342830 - 02/26/06 08:34 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

oh pris, a big thing ive noticed in this wee exploration is that people are pushing the fact that coffee is the biggest scource of antioxidants.

thats not good. it just means people aren't getting enough veggies. Coffee is not a replacement for sleep OR diet.

funny how you just cant get addicted to healthy living. :P
even though your body really easily becomes dependant on it.


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