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Offlinelobotomix
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Kundalini Reiki and Tripping
    #5338212 - 02/25/06 04:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Hello

Is anyone a reiki practitioner/master?

I was wondering if tripping on mushrooms (or acid) can have a bad influence on one's chakras,
and perhaps stop one being able to channel reiki energy.. or worse..


greetings  :heart:


Edited by lobotomix (11/15/08 08:42 PM)


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Invisibleshymanta
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: lobotomix]
    #5343008 - 02/26/06 11:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

lobotomix,

I am no master but I practice reiki. One of the five precepts are not to take intoxicants. However, there is a time and place for everything. My personal belief is that psilocybin is not toxic and therefore not an intoxicant. I believe it is a sacrament.

That said: mushrooms will mess with your chakras. However, this is not necessarily bad. A high dose will probably blast open your crown chakra as well as your throat and third-eye chakras. Once you have come down and assimilated the knowledge of the trip, realign your chakras. Watch your energy for a few days. It will be funky for a while. Just keep an eye on how your energy flows and you'll be fine.

I don't know about LSD since it is synthetic, but things like psilocybin, psilocin, mescaline, DMT, and other plant based entheogens that have a history of shamanic usage are not going to hurt you, but you must be aware of your energy and how it responds to these thing. Also, don't do them too often. You need a recovery period to re attune yourself.

Good luck and keep your eyes open. All three of them.


Edited by shymanta (02/28/06 11:27 AM)


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Offlinelobotomix
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: shymanta]
    #9250933 - 11/15/08 08:40 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

thank you for the reply.

what do others have to say about this?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: lobotomix]
    #9251032 - 11/15/08 08:52 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

As no one has yet to demonstrate any sort of Reiki energy in a controlled setting nor is there any evidence of a chakra; there is nothing to be positively or negatively affected by any drug.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: lobotomix]
    #9251210 - 11/15/08 09:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lobotomix said:
thank you for the reply.

what do others have to say about this?




after 2 years you finally thank him? :blazed:


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OfflineKupo
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deranger]
    #9251832 - 11/15/08 10:43 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

hahaha

:thumbup:


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: shymanta]
    #9252295 - 11/16/08 12:06 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shymanta said:
I am no master but I practice reiki.  One of the five precepts are not to take intoxicants.




:topicsucks:


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Offlinecenterthedream
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9252341 - 11/16/08 12:12 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
As no one has yet to demonstrate any sort of Reiki energy in a controlled setting nor is there any evidence of a chakra; there is nothing to be positively or negatively affected by any drug.



Actually, the energy frequencies consciously emitted by a reiki healer has already been measured in a controlled setting. with various measurement devices they measured the frequencies coming from a reiki healer, in heal mode. it is like one of those medical micro-current devices(which basically sends certain Hz frequencies into a persons body to a specific location. Different Hz frequencies will have different healing effects. there is a Hz frequencies for every kind of conceivable ailment and damage. note that no micro-current machine has healed any serious injuries or conditions out right, or right away. but has always !GREATLY! healed, and helped the healing process of everything it has been used on. http://www.frequencyspecific.com/faq.htm ) The measurements of reiki healers showed various forms of energy coming from them, including many varying, and changing frequencies very similar to a micro-current machine.
i am not aware of the links for where i have seen this, but it is not my intention to prove anything. i am only adding what i know on the subject.
as for chakras, those have been measured in a controlled setting also. here is what i found related to what i have already known about the measurements.
http://www.universal-mind.org/Chakra_pages/ProofOfExistence.htm

and

Japanese researcher Dr Hiroshi Motoyama used an electrode to measure the human bioelectrical field at a distance from the body. Electrodes placed in front of a chakra that psychics or advanced meditators claimed had been awakened, showed that the amplitude and frequency of the electric field over that chakra was significantly greater than the energy recorded from the chakras of the control group. Some research subjects could also consciously project energy through their chakras.

Dr Valerie Hunt at UCLA used EMG electrodes and found high frequency electrical oscillations coming from the chakra points. Dr Hunt also used a psychic to observe changes in the subject's auric field while the chakras were electronically monitored. The psychic's observations of colour changes in the aura correlated exactly with the EMG electrode recordings. Hunt discovered that each colour of the aura was associated with a different wave pattern recorded at the chakra points on the skin of her subjects.

Prof Kim Bong Han proved in the 1960s that a radioactive substance injected into the acupoints of rabbits was taken up along a ductlike tubule system following the path of the classical acupunture meridians, which were independent of the vascular network. This was confirmed in more recent studies on human beings by French researcher Pierre de Vernejoul. Other researchers, utilising abdominal electronographic body scans, have found that changes in the brightness of acupuncture points preceded the manifestation of physical disease in the body,  sometimes up to weeks.
Drunvalo Melchizedek has measured the chakras too. he used a molecular emissions scanner, and with it, could see the microwaves coming from each chakra and could find their procise locations.

Quote:

lobotomix said:
thank you for the reply.

what do others have to say about this?



any natural substances should creat no problem, besides what the other guy said. actually, one more thing....
make sure to protect yourself some way from any entities that would be looking to invade you. some pre-experiance ritual, and setting up sacred space will usually be good enough for normal entities. but there are some that are a little stronger. with more powerful substances like ayahuasca, your energy system is almost fully hijacked by the plant spirit to control your state of consciousness(and to less of an extent with things such as a medium dose of mushrooms). this is always a good door-way for entities to try and invade you. there is nothing to really worry about though as long as you take the appropriate measures.


--------------------
The Ringing Cedars of Russia

This seed in the ground,
Shining all around,
For all else to see him;
Would like to shine bright,
All of his light,
So even more of it you are receiving.

Ask me about a "Special Designers Technology".


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: centerthedream]
    #9252465 - 11/16/08 12:42 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You have presented no evidence for Reiki healing nor chakras, but lots of evidence for self delusion.

Did you know that in a recent test between 'certified' acupuncture practioners sticking needles in volunteers and those with no clue randomly sticking needles in volunteers, both volunteer groups showed the same minor improvement.

In other words meridians are bullshit and the effect is placebo.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9252474 - 11/16/08 12:43 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

OC, please explain how the placebo effect works.

Science still doesn't understand how mere belief can improve health.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deCypher]
    #9252515 - 11/16/08 12:51 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Who said anything about a health improvement? Pain is rarely constant and often comes and goes depending on focus. Muscle tension often accompanies pain. If you trust your 'healer' one will tend to relax.

It is the same effect as kissing a boo-boo; the perceived pain level goes down, the wound does not heal any faster.

Temporary symptom relief is light-years away from cure.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9252525 - 11/16/08 12:53 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Kissing a boo-boo is explainable in that alternate stimulation of the nerves tends to block the pain signal; the placebo effect is still unexplainable in that simply believing that one is being healed decreases the perception of pain.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deCypher]
    #9252557 - 11/16/08 12:59 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

It is important to understand that NO HEALING is actually taking place at other than a normal rate.

Pain is merely a signal and the brain may interpret it in many ways.

For example, a novice bodybuilder may find muscle soreness and lactic acid build-up to be extremely uncomfortable whereas an advanced bodybuilder welcomes such a signal as a sign of stimulated hypertrophy.

Same signal; different interpretation.

Its all about context, baby. Not really much of a mystery.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9252563 - 11/16/08 01:01 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

OK, so how precisely does belief cause a different interpretation?


--------------------
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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deCypher]
    #9252590 - 11/16/08 01:08 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

First off note that placebo ONLY effect subjective measurements and not objective ones.

Don't make it complicated. Go grab a pin and prick your finger. Now give your full attention to it. Bathe in the pain, dwell and obsess on it. Feel sorry for yourself and how stupid you were to do this.

Now put on some music and listen intently or look at some porn or otherwise distract yourself and the pain will 'mysteriously' lessen dramatically.

This is because your focus goes from narrow to wide.

Surprise me (you would be the first in 10 years here) and actually do this before you repost and answer your own question.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9252654 - 11/16/08 01:28 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think you're mistaking distraction for the placebo effect.

If I'm suffering from chronic pain, and I'm given a sugar pill without knowing that it's a sugar pill, I will feel less chronic pain.

This is different from suffering from chronic pain and hitting my hand with a hammer, however.  The crucial component that is still mysterious is that link between belief and the lessening of a subjective perception.

Similar to how hypnosis can eliminate the perception of pain, even though the pain is still registered, the placebo effect exemplifies that missing link between mental experience and physical phenomena.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deCypher]
    #9252665 - 11/16/08 01:31 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

No stickie no discussion.

:lipsrsealed:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9252673 - 11/16/08 01:33 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Lame.  I've stickied myself plenty of times and noticed the effect you describe, but this is NOT the placebo effect.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deCypher]
    #9252696 - 11/16/08 01:39 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

So if you have a pain in your neck and a 'practioner' puts a gold needle in your back, you see that as placebo and not distraction?

It is all distraction. Pain IS the mind focusing on a signal and interpreting it as unwanted.

The signal strength does not decrease only the focus or the interpretation. I can only say this in so many ways.

If placebo affected cancerous tissue then you would have a genuine mystery, however it doesn't work that way.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9252720 - 11/16/08 01:45 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The gold needle is another source of pain that distracts, sure.  But how is swallowing an innocent sugar pill a distraction from chronic pain?

Interesting fact you bring up with placebo effect not being able to affect cancerous tissue, however.  How do you account from depression being alleviated from placebo pills?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deCypher]
    #9252747 - 11/16/08 01:51 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Depression is also subjective, is it not? I have already addressed this.

Do you enjoy getting me to repeat myself?

Do you enjoy getting me to repeat myself?


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9252750 - 11/16/08 01:52 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Addressed this in this thread, or in a long-ago depression thread?

Refresh me on your ideas on depression, please.  Clinical depression is something that is not typically alleviated simply by the power of positive thinking.

Any mental experience is de facto subjective.  The interesting part is how an objective measure (the administration of a placebo pill) can affect a subjective experience.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deCypher]
    #9252770 - 11/16/08 01:57 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

What is so interesting about the fact that changing how you think will change how you think? I find nothing puzzling in this.

I am going to test the ultimate placebo. Using the power of alcohol, I will magically transform homely ladies into highly alluring vixens, especially at closing time...


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9252785 - 11/16/08 01:59 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Beer goggles, along with music and other things of that nature, are likewise currently unexplainable.

OC, what are your view on consciousness?  It seems that your viewpoint is overwhelmingly materialistic, and yet I'm at a loss to understand how you reconcile mental experience with a physical phenomenon within the neural substrate.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Offlinecenterthedream
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9252801 - 11/16/08 02:03 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

you are right, i have proved nothing. and in the same sense, you have proved nothing. besides that all pre-conceived notions, logical conclusions and assumptions are subjective, and no more than a mental construct set in place to fill in the gaps of our knowing. i admire you, and love you who disagree with me. without knowing, you have stated the same thing that a Buddha has observed. you can only have knowing if you have wisdom, you can only have wisdom from experience. we must come to the realization that there are many facets, levels, and layers of reality or consciousness where in what you experience is what is real. everything is relative besides the fact that we are, for we all experience that. Experience makes something a relative knowing (relative to the population that experiences something else), instead of a relative lie. many times i have forced myself to believe something and KNOW that it is true. and what happened? it was true.
e.g. my will i no longer have smelly farts (if you knew me you would understand the significance of this;))
and now i no longer have smelly farts, even to those who seem to be outside my own relm of conscious knowing (the truth is they aren't)
my will i no longer get punked and looked at funny when walking through the deep streets of north highlands because i am wearing sandles, a tiedye shirt with a heart, and ripped, red and black cut-off shorts.
so now my will is done because it is the truth.

you dont believe in healing, and you will find no healing, because there is none. that is until someone with a higher consciousness than you starts butting in, and hijacking your reality.
i find that two people have to agree that each one thinks the other is wrong for there to be an argument, but what happens when you know and agree that every single thing some one tells you is true?
"Do I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself. (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

stay at the center, and you are another me
Namaste


--------------------
The Ringing Cedars of Russia

This seed in the ground,
Shining all around,
For all else to see him;
Would like to shine bright,
All of his light,
So even more of it you are receiving.

Ask me about a "Special Designers Technology".


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deCypher]
    #9252804 - 11/16/08 02:04 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OC, what are your view on consciousness? 




I am certain that you could be more vague and unfocused if you really tried.

Look up my thread with 'purple' in the title. Not a joke.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9252817 - 11/16/08 02:07 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Mmmkay, so you deny the existence of purple simply because it's a subjective experience?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deCypher]
    #9252866 - 11/16/08 02:16 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Beer goggles are likewise currently unexplainable.





Please don't make such definitive statments unless you know of what you speak.

Alcohol depresses the neo-cortex and higher functions.

The 'reptilian' brain is largely responsibile for fighting, fleeing and fucking and is not as deeply affected.

Being picky over a bed partner is partly genetic and partly cultural.

If the cultural part is repressed, you suddenly have more potential lovers. At closing time, your animal nature would rather have a less than optimal partner than none at all.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: centerthedream]
    #9252889 - 11/16/08 02:21 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

:blah:

Being unable to demonstrate something sez it all. Anecdotes are meaningless.

Randi Million Dollar Challenge.

There are only 231 subjective 'reason's why paranormalists won't even take it and only one objective reason. They cannot do what they say or believe. Everything else is mindless jibber-jabber. It has nothing to do with my mindset or 'vibrational' level.

:yawn:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9252892 - 11/16/08 02:22 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

This explains the urge, but not the increase in attractiveness in the partner, which is a subjectively phenomenal experience.

I find it difficult to explain how the addition of ethanol into a biomechanical system can change the mental experience of objective reality.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deCypher]
    #9252923 - 11/16/08 02:27 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

No, but when you look closely, the 'purple' is no where to be found; just like consciousness.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9252943 - 11/16/08 02:31 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Are you saying consciousness is an illusion and that you're purely a biomechanical automaton?


--------------------
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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deCypher]
    #9252960 - 11/16/08 02:36 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Is there really such thing as a forest or is it just an illusion? If it is real then how many trees make up a forest? Two, three, a hundred, a thousand?

Does one stimulus response or one neuron make up consciousness? A hundred, a thousand, a million?


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9252967 - 11/16/08 02:38 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I agree that consciousness is not a black and white thing; but assuming that consciousness is a matter of degree only leads to panpsychism.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Offlinecenterthedream
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9252989 - 11/16/08 02:46 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
:blah:

Being unable to demonstrate something sez it all. Anecdotes are meaningless.

Randi Million Dollar Challenge.

There are only 231 subjective 'reason's why paranormalists won't even take it and only one objective reason. They cannot do what they say or believe. Everything else is mindless jibber-jabber. It has nothing to do with my mindset or 'vibrational' level.

:yawn:


you are right. if you cant demonstrate something (thus meaning that you would have to experience that something) then it wont exist.....to you. you would just be lying to yourself though, unless you actually attempted, or were in a position where "something unexplainable" was supposed to happen, but it didn't. dont take someone elses word for it, even if they have said proof. once you want to apply something, and then feel its effects, then it is real. of course if its your thing, i guess there is nothing wrong with lieing to yourself. i dont want to prove anything, i just like seeing how many different ways i can say the same thing (apparently there is one/none/and all ways to express this, so i am set for eternity :thumbup:)
i cant speak for other people of the trade, but personally i wouldn't care enough about the million dollar challenge to even lift a single tachyon of our power to prove something exists. or to prove anything exists for that matter.
but just to through it out there (not trying to convert anyone, or shift any paradigms. but because i see a possible resonance between you and the subject) you should check out chaos magick. (or not)
IO, IO Kia!
So how is your day?


--------------------
The Ringing Cedars of Russia

This seed in the ground,
Shining all around,
For all else to see him;
Would like to shine bright,
All of his light,
So even more of it you are receiving.

Ask me about a "Special Designers Technology".


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deCypher]
    #9253005 - 11/16/08 02:50 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I find it difficult to explain how the addition of ethanol into a biomechanical system can change the mental experience of objective reality.




I don't. Then again, I am the Swamster.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: centerthedream]
    #9253019 - 11/16/08 02:52 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

unless you actually attempted, or were in a position where "something unexplainable" was supposed to happen, but it didn't.




You are unique in being only the 502nd member to assume that I have not investigated deeply with an open mindset.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9253047 - 11/16/08 02:57 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Now's the feast, OC.

:mushroom2:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deranger]
    #9253079 - 11/16/08 03:06 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Now's the time to be bored to tears.

Seems no one can bring anything new to the table just old already debunked myths and practices. The truly sad part is that believe they are sharing something fresh and useful.


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Offlinecenterthedream
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9253084 - 11/16/08 03:08 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Damn, my bad. my fault in communication. i didn't mean it that way.
i in no way thought that you haven't already looked into this(haha, so lots of people think you are closed minded?). but man, that is something. well, you can either accept it, or keep trying. but let me tell you. once you actually get yourself to believe something so much that it actually comes true.... its pretty nice. when i did it though, i always used the collective unconscious to get my work done. you would be surprised as to how much "reality hacking" and subconscious programming you can do when you learn how to use the collective unconsciousness properly.

as for my thoughts on consciousness...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/9247336/an/0/page/0
there you go.
well, beautiful talking to you guys. (i actually enjoy people who make my think for a change)
good night
have fun
and remember.....even the greatest cosmic joker is too serious.:grin:


--------------------
The Ringing Cedars of Russia

This seed in the ground,
Shining all around,
For all else to see him;
Would like to shine bright,
All of his light,
So even more of it you are receiving.

Ask me about a "Special Designers Technology".


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9253115 - 11/16/08 03:15 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Now's the time to be bored to tears.

Seems no one can bring anything new to the table just old already debunked myths and practices. The truly sad part is that believe they are sharing something fresh and useful.




if you find something, let me know.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: centerthedream]
    #9253128 - 11/16/08 03:19 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

you would be surprised as to how much "reality hacking" and subconscious programming you can do when you learn how to use the collective unconsciousness properly.





Yes I would be surprised. A zillion claims; zero results.

Did you know that controlled prayer studies failed miserably? No evidence of reality hacking.

Did you know that meditators for peace have had zero demonstrable success in crime rate reduction or world-wide body count?

On and on the fantasy goes...


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9253163 - 11/16/08 03:28 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

let's not let this fantasy thing get too far into our heads...


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deranger]
    #9253168 - 11/16/08 03:29 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

if you find something, let me know.




Stay close to your phone. I could be calling at any time.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9253192 - 11/16/08 03:38 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Stay close to your phone. I could be calling at any time.




Hacker.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9253371 - 11/16/08 04:48 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

you would be surprised as to how much "reality hacking" and subconscious programming you can do when you learn how to use the collective unconsciousness properly.





Yes I would be surprised. A zillion claims; zero results.

Did you know that controlled prayer studies failed miserably? No evidence of reality hacking.

Did you know that meditators for peace have had zero demonstrable success in crime rate reduction or world-wide body count?

On and on the fantasy goes...




I want to hear more about these results you speak of.

    What is a controlled prayer study?

Tell me, how does one really go about recording the MULTITUDES of information in such a study or even tie together a study on meditating for peace? What, you measure how many monks are sitting there and divide by how many damn murders go on each day?

In that case, we need many more monks.


Trying to replicate matters of the soul, phenomena, or spiritual practices in a controlled lab setting makes zero sense to me.

Faith as well as love are forces to reckon with. You can try to measure them in your lab all you want but you will be hard pressed to find the specific "statistics" you are looking for.

Give me a dog that was once beaten, and I will raise it with love to become a great friend. It will have healed in totality.

Give me a hurt friend, and I will heal him with loving kindness.

That is my Reiki, and you will never prove that I cannot heal, touch, or sooth.

You ignore that which is so evident, because I can not lead a mouse to it.

By no means am I directing an attack in my words towards you OrgoneConclusion, I just do not understand how you can deny the human spirit.

Om tat sat brotha


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: shymanta]
    #9254358 - 11/16/08 01:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shymanta said:

That said: mushrooms will mess with your chakras.  However, this is not necessarily bad.  A high dose will probably blast open your crown chakra as well as your throat and third-eye chakras.  Once you have come down and assimilated the knowledge of the trip, realign your chakras.  Watch your energy for a few days.  It will be funky for a while.  Just keep an eye on how your energy flows and you'll be fine. 

I don't know about LSD since it is synthetic, but things like psilocybin, psilocin, mescaline, DMT, and other plant based entheogens that have a history of shamanic usage are not going to hurt you, but you must be aware of your energy and how it responds to these thing.  Also, don't do them too often.  You need a recovery period to re attune yourself. 

Good luck and keep your eyes open.  All three of them.




I never understood the concept of psychedelics being spiritual until I learned about how your upper chakras get blasted open. This connects you to spirit and I found I really like being in this condition.

I used to get bothered by negative spirits on mushrooms but never on LSD. Since I have been through a lot of energy work and other chakra work I never get bothered by the negatives. I have started making contact with a lot of positive entities.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Kupo]
    #9254756 - 11/16/08 02:43 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Wow! Just Wow!

How amazingly original to insert the work 'lab' where it was never mentioned. Do you know how many other 'believers' have done this as if it were clever?

An abused dog will respond to being cared for and not abused? Call the presses. This is proof of something.

Look, physical healing can be measured despite all your wrangling about how spiritual matters cannot be measured.

Go back to square one and try again.

Thanks for playing. :japsmile:


--------------------


Edited by OrgoneConclusion (11/16/08 09:33 PM)


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9254912 - 11/16/08 03:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Welp, looks like you've gone and denied the human spirit again.

:pimp3:


--------------------
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deCypher]
    #9255696 - 11/16/08 06:29 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

i wear blankets over my body like a ghost so no one can notice my spirit


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OfflineKupo
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9255752 - 11/16/08 06:39 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I would call any experiment in which you are searching for results a lab. I'm not inserting it into this, you already did.

Quick of you to lump me into a believer category, I find that interesting as well.

Physical healing CAN be measured, yes. I don't disagree with that.

How about you go back to my previous post, and actually answer the questions I posed rather than avoiding them altogether.

Thank you sir


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: lobotomix]
    #9256493 - 11/16/08 09:04 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

My mom and step dad are both reiki masters.    The heat generated by their palms is incredible.  It actually makes my face break out into a heavy sweat. 

I have gone to my mom many times before with a particular pain or ailment but not told her where on my body it was.  Just out of skepticism.  She can find the exact spot EVERY time either by feeling an area of coldness, feeling electrical sparks in the palm or having an intuitive knowing.   

I have felt electrical sparks, tingling and numbness as a result of their healings as well. 

After a while, I couldn't deny its authenticity so I began to accept the energy and work together with it which makes the healing even more powerful.  Reikis effectiveness is codependent upon the healer and the recipient. 

On time in particular, very recently in fact, I had a vision while receiving reiki.  I saw my hand reach out in front of me into the darkness and I asked for help because I was going through a very difficult time.  A giant brown bear's paw appeared and I embraced it.  The next thing I know I'm walking behind the bear.  I followed it through some wooded area and we came to a tree with a massive trunk.  It was all gnarled and had a gaping hole in it.  I followed the bear into the trunk of the tree and down a staircase that emptied into a room with a heavy wooden door.  I  went through the door and was in a room with no walls or ceiling but was totally illuminated.  in the center of the room was a giant red sphere.  it was sparkling with golden light and I was told by the bear that I could come here anytime I wished to connect to this orb as a source of unlimited healing energy.  A vortex then extended from the center of the sphere and connected directly into my solar plexus chakra. 

An intense psychedelic experience of any kind can potentially have positive or negative effects on the chakra system, both short and long term.  It just has to do with the person and how in tune and aware they are to their own energy and how well they manage the external energies that the psychedelic experience draws in.


--------------------
"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: postanaldrip]
    #9256658 - 11/16/08 09:40 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Reiki has failed every single controlled test to date. Why haven't your mom and dad picked up the cool million? (Insert one of 143 TB excuses here.)

**Let's keep it about the ideas, please. ~ V


--------------------


Edited by Veritas (11/16/08 10:30 PM)


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9256879 - 11/16/08 10:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Reiki has failed every single controlled test to date.




So Im supposed to believe that my personal experiences are a result of some kind of delusional thinking? 

Im not looking for proof.  I already have it. 

Do you have any links or official testing results to back your claim?  Id really like to see them.

Have you ever had a reiki session?

Quote:

Why haven't your mom and dad picked up the cool million?




What cool million?  Reiki isnt an instant miracle like when Dr. Jones poured the water from the holy grail onto his fathers gunshot wound.  It is to simply balances ones energy field and chakras which results in a calm and peacful state of mind which in turn allows the body to heal quicker and rid consciousness of heavy and negative thoughts and past baggage.  These are results that cannot really be measured and may manifest days, weeks, or months later.  What are you expecting?  That a reiki master can instantly heal a broken femur or something?

**Let's keep it about the ideas, please. ~V


--------------------
"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC


Edited by Veritas (11/16/08 10:30 PM)


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: postanaldrip]
    #9257033 - 11/16/08 10:48 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I'm still waiting for a response as well.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: postanaldrip]
    #9258103 - 11/17/08 03:04 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

What cool million?




Couldn't be simpler. State EXACTLY what Reiki can do that CAN BE OBJECTIVELY OBSERVED/MEASSURED, then do it. Perhaps your folks will succeed where every other Reiki master failed/backed out.

www.randi.org for details on the $$$.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: postanaldrip]
    #9258125 - 11/17/08 03:11 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

These are results that cannot really be measured



Anyone can be a master of unmeasurable results.

Quote:

and may manifest days, weeks, or months later.



I had a cold and stubbed my toe. Two weeks later, I was better. Now I always stub my toe to get better.

Gotta love cause and effect.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9258260 - 11/17/08 03:51 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Or completely avoid answering me altogether, that's cool too!

Mooovin on


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Kupo]
    #9258590 - 11/17/08 07:12 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

well i do suspect there's something to reiki, (although that something may not be very valuable, i do not know)

but i do know that many people ask way to much money
to give someone a reiki 1 iniation.

170$ etc....

i'm not going to pay 170$ :wink:


Edited by lobotomix (11/17/08 08:08 AM)


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: lobotomix]
    #9258664 - 11/17/08 08:22 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

My mom and dad would do it for free to anyone in need so I hope you dont think they are all like that.


--------------------
"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9258667 - 11/17/08 08:23 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

My parents arent interested in using their powers for monetary gain.


--------------------
"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: postanaldrip]
    #9258925 - 11/17/08 10:53 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Shit I am.  And I will have that $Mil.
Fuck a spinning pinwheel. 
Randi's gonna shit himself when I drain him of his demon, EVEn, and smear his face with God's semen.:mushroom2:

Seeds, Randi!  Seeds.  Stones.

Placebo, Jones.

Expectancy effect

The subject-expectancy effect attributes the placebo effect to conscious or unconscious manipulation by patients in reporting improvement. Hróbjartsson and Gøtzsche argued in their article, "Most patients are polite and prone to please the investigators by reporting improvement, even when no improvement was felt."[6] Subjective bias can also be unconscious, where the patient believes he is improving as a result of the attention and care he has received.

Conditioning

Classical conditioning is a type of associative learning where the subject learns to associate a particular stimulus with a particular response. In this case the stimulant is the substance perceived as medicine but is the placebo, and the response is the relief of symptoms. It is difficult to tell the difference between conditioning and the expectancy effect when the outcome is subjective and reported by the patient. However, conditioning can result in measurable biological changes similar to the changes seen with the real treatment or drug. For example, studies showing that placebo treatments result in changes in brain function similar to the real drug are probably examples of conditioning resulting in objectively measurable results. (Sauro 2005, Wager et al. 2004)

Motivation

Motivational explanations of the placebo effect have typically considered the placebo effect to be an outcome of one’s desire to feel better, reduce anxiety, or cooperate with an experimenter or health care professional (Price et al. 1999, Margo 1999). The motivational perspective is supported by recent research showing that nonconscious goals for cooperation can be satisfied by confirming expectations about a treatment (Geers et al. 2005).

Role of endogenous opiates

The discovery in 1975 of Endogenous opiates alias endorphins (substances like opiates but naturally produced in the body) have changed matters in investing placebo effect. When patients who claimed to experience pain relief after receiving a placebo were injected with naloxone (a drug that blocks the effects of opiates), their pain returned, suggesting that the placebo effect may be partly due to psychological reaction causing release of natural opiates. (Sauro 2005)
-Wiki


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: lobotomix]
    #9259020 - 11/17/08 11:26 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lobotomix said:
Hello

Is anyone a reiki practitioner/master?

I was wondering if tripping on mushrooms (or acid) can have a bad influence on one's chakras,
and perhaps stop one being able to channel reiki energy.. or worse..




greetings  :heart:




I am a Master of the Absurd and can assure you that psychedelics are a boon to all your bodily functions. Especially your mind. That is unless you are unstable (which many are) Then you are better off posting in the Mystery forum and staying off all drugs including coffee.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: MycorRHizaL]
    #9259232 - 11/17/08 12:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I got a free reiki session, it gave me a rash. I didn't know this was a possible side effect until later.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: postanaldrip]
    #9259408 - 11/17/08 12:50 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Interesting how you immediately went for TB Excuse #1. :congrats:

This from a popular Reiki website:

Reiki and Karuna Reiki® class fees

The most popular course offerings among students are: Reiki I&II  (joint), ART/Master (joint) and Karuna Reiki® Master, providing the foundation for a complete Reiki training.           

For class descriptions, click course level in box below. 

Course
Days
Required
Fee
Deposit
Review  Fee

Reiki Level I
1
 
$175.00
$100.00
$75.00

Reiki Level II
1
Reiki I
$175.00
$100.00
$75.00

Reiki l&II
2
 
$350.00
$100.00
$100.00

Advanced Reiki Training (ART)
1
Reiki I + II
$225.00
$100.00
$100.00

Reiki Master
2
Reiki I + II +  ART
$650.00
$200.00
$200.00

ART/Reiki Master
3
Reiki I + II
$875.00
$275.00
$300.00

Karuna Reiki® Master
3
Reiki Master
$875.00
$275.00
$300.00
 


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9259600 - 11/17/08 01:26 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Did you know that in a recent test between 'certified' acupuncture practioners sticking needles in volunteers and those with no clue randomly sticking needles in volunteers, both volunteer groups showed the same minor improvement. 




Do you have a link to this?


--------------------
:hst:
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but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: gluke bastid]
    #9259617 - 11/17/08 01:29 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)



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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: mushroom people]
    #9259683 - 11/17/08 01:38 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mushroom people said:
I got a free reiki session, it gave me a rash. I didn't know this was a possible side effect until later.




A rash is proof of your body expelling negative energy. :yesnod:


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Veritas]
    #9259694 - 11/17/08 01:40 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Here's a couple:

http://www.webmd.com/back-pain/news/20070924/study-acupuncture-eases-low-back-pain

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/05/050504101520.htm




The article argues that acupuncture is effective, you just don't need a specialist.

Kind of contradicts OC's claim if acunpcture has quantifiable positive results.


--------------------
:hst:
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but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: gluke bastid]
    #9259701 - 11/17/08 01:41 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

He said that both groups showed the same minor improvement, not that there was NO improvement.  :confused:  The fact that you can obtain a slight positive effect through randomly sticking needles into someone suggests placebo, not effectiveness of treatment.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Veritas]
    #9259790 - 11/17/08 01:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
He said that both groups showed the same minor improvement, not that there was NO improvement.  :confused:  The fact that you can obtain a slight positive effect through randomly sticking needles into someone suggests placebo, not effectiveness of treatment.




OC said the studies proved that acupuncture has a placebo effect.

I don't think that's an accurate scientific conclusion to come to, at least not based on the studies that you linked, and the people who ran the studies agreee with me.

From first study:
Quote:

"The evidence as a whole suggests that the benefits of true acupuncture over sham acupuncture are almost clinically irrelevant," Eric Manheimer, MS, of the University of Maryland Center for Integrative Medicine tells WebMD. "The reasons for this are not really clear. It may be that putting the needles anywhere stimulates some sort of analgesic effect."

Acupuncture is still considered an alternative treatment for low back pain in the U.S., but this is no longer the case in Germany. Based on findings from the newly reported study, it is now covered by state health insurance.

Endres says acupuncture is a clearly useful treatment for low back pain, even if we don't understand why.

"Just because we cannot explain exactly the mechanism by which a treatment works, doesn't mean that it doesn't work," he says





And from study #2

Quote:

"In conclusion, in our trial, acupuncture was associated with a reduction of migraine headaches compared with no treatment; however, the effects were similar to those observed with sham acupuncture and may be due to nonspecific physiological effects of needling, to a powerful placebo effect, or to a combination of both," the authors write.




Anyone without an agenda to prove would come to the same conclusion. It may be placebo or there may be benefits to acupuncture that are available to anyone with a set of clean needles, or it may be a combination of both. Had the studies tested acupuncture against other proven placebos, it would be a different story. But as it stands, the jury is still out.

Plus migraines and lower back pain are very different physical problems. I'd be curious to see acupuncture tested against blood sugar levels in diabetics.


--------------------
:hst:
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but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: gluke bastid]
    #9259814 - 11/17/08 02:02 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Acupuncture does not claim that just any old puncturing with needles will have an effect, it involves a complex system of meridiens which must be specifically stimulated by a skilled practitioner in order to achieve an effect.  If anyone can poke needles into any body part & achieve a SLIGHT positive effect compared to no treatment, this strongly suggests placebo.

BTW, there is no way to prove placebo. :grin:


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Veritas]
    #9259900 - 11/17/08 02:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
If anyone can poke needles into any body part & achieve a SLIGHT positive effect compared to no treatment, this strongly suggests placebo.




On the contrary...if repeated needling results in a significant decrease in pain in the majority of patients(as reported in study #1), it suggests that there may be something to acupuncture. The only thing that has been proven is that all of the claims made by specialised practioners are false.

Stick needles in people with lower back pain and their muscle pain decreases. I don't understand why you're failing to see this.

I'm no proponent of acupuncture, its effectiveness seems quite possibly placebo and I don't care about it to begin with...but it seems to me like you and OC are ignoring the facts in favor of your scepticism.

Quote:

BTW, there is no way to prove placebo. :grin:


How's that? Sugar tablets are a placebo.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: gluke bastid]
    #9259926 - 11/17/08 02:25 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

No, it does not support the effectiveness of acupuncture, it suggests an effect caused by random needling.  As it was not compared to a placebo, we cannot ascertain whether the effect is statistically significant.  :shrug:

In the lower back pain study, the "control" group was given traditional treatments which they had likely already tried without success.  (Chronic lower back pain is quite unique in that it responds inconsistently to pain-killers and other standard treatment methods).  It may be that the novelty of the sham and "true" needling techniques stimulated a powerful placebo effect, resulting in the reported 33% improvement in the experience of pain.

Sugar pills are used to stimulate the placebo effect, and can create results which strongly suggest placebo, but do not PROVE placebo.  It's a scientific distinction which may seem trivial, but it actually quite important.  Proof is simply too strong a term for complex interactions such as human biochemistry.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Veritas]
    #9259990 - 11/17/08 02:39 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
No, it does not support the effectiveness of acupuncture, it suggests an effect caused by random needling.  As it was not compared to a placebo, we cannot ascertain whether the effect is statistically significant.  :shrug:




Agreed


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Veritas]
    #9259996 - 11/17/08 02:41 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think more importantly that proof is impossible in science as a whole--what we can confidently say is that the placebo effect, at least in certain situations, has not been disproven yet.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deCypher]
    #9260008 - 11/17/08 02:43 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

IMO, the placebo effect is the most interesting scientific discovery yet. :grin:


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Veritas]
    #9260014 - 11/17/08 02:44 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I completely agree... why does pure belief in a treatment's efficacy make it more effective?

There are some intriguing ties between it and hypnosis' ability to lessen the perception of pain, even though the pain is still there.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deCypher]
    #9260022 - 11/17/08 02:46 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I learned a great deal about altering pain perception through attitude & expectation in my prepared childbirth classes.  It's truly amazing!  I've utilized the same techniques to deal with other sources of pain, and have taught my children to do the same.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Veritas]
    #9260030 - 11/17/08 02:48 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Any tips you'd like to share?

(Not for childbirth, obviously... :tongue:)


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deCypher]
    #9260090 - 11/17/08 02:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Aw, does that mean you're not expecting?  :lol:

Relaxation is the most important technique for reducing pain.  Our "normal" response to painful sensations is tensing up, which intensifies the sensation.  If you can teach yourself to respond to non-life-threatening pain (i.e. a migraine & not a shark biting into your leg. :wink:) with relaxation rather than tension, you will decrease the pain.

One's beliefs/attitudes regarding pain also effect pain perception.  If one believes that pain is "bad" "wrong" "dangerous" etc... (all ancient responses to the threat pain supposedly represents), one's perception of pain will be heightened.  My classes & research into pain management during labor & childbirth described a rational disputation process through which one ascertains whether the sensation is actually threatening, and deliberately assigns new descriptors to the experience.

For example, rather than viewing the sensation of soreness after a workout as evidence of harm, and therefore "bad" "wrong" "dangerous," one might recognize that muscles are built through a process of microscopic tearing & healing, and understand that lactic acid is released during this process.  New descriptors might be "positive training results" or "healing process" or "muscle building success."

I have much more, but probably shouldn't derail this thread any further.  PM me if you want more details.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Veritas]
    #9264936 - 11/18/08 10:53 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I was curious, so I did a quick wiki check for scientific claims.

"Neither the existence of ki nor any mechanism for its manipulation are scientifically proven, and a systematic review of randomized clinical trials conducted in 2008 did not support the efficacy of reiki or its recommendation for use in the treatment of any condition."

Lee, MS; MH Pittler, E Ernst (2008). "Effects of reiki in clinical practice: a systematic review of randomized clinical trials". International Journal of Clinical Practice 62: 947.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Arden]
    #9265029 - 11/18/08 11:16 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

TY, that is what I have been saying all along.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Arden]
    #9265149 - 11/18/08 12:02 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Arden said:
I was curious, so I did a quick wiki check for scientific claims.

"Neither the existence of ki nor any mechanism for its manipulation are scientifically proven, and a systematic review of randomized clinical trials conducted in 2008 did not support the efficacy of reiki or its recommendation for use in the treatment of any condition."

Lee, MS; MH Pittler, E Ernst (2008). "Effects of reiki in clinical practice: a systematic review of randomized clinical trials". International Journal of Clinical Practice 62: 947.





Right.

I know a reiki "master". He's kind of a joke. He's into every new age piece of nonsense that makes it to market. He makes his living off the gullible. I even got suckered in once.:blush: But it won't happen again. It was a waste of good money.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Icelander]
    #9265240 - 11/18/08 12:29 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

It was a waste of good money.




Not if you learned something impotent.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9271865 - 11/19/08 01:41 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Wetther Chi is real or not, personally I have had interesting experences practicing Chi Kung. I am able to move ice cold energy feeling through out my body. Its like dumping icecold water down my whole body.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: p4kSouL]
    #9272033 - 11/19/08 02:30 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Chi is real, scientists just get all pissy because they fail at measuring it.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: mushroom people]
    #9272085 - 11/19/08 02:42 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

dude, if something can't be measured, it doesn't exist.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deranger]
    #9272727 - 11/19/08 05:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

deranger said:
dude, if something can't be measured, it doesn't exist.



i'm sure for someone doing ChiKung or other "energy work"
-at least something- can be measured.

maybe today we lack the technological equipment.
or maybe the only thing which can be measured is certain areas in the brain,
which do not light up in people who do not do the "energy work".



i'm probably wrong but,
when we are "sober", and therefor experiencing "real reality",
the only thing with which we can measure to prove that "real reality" exist...

is
a) because we experience it
and
b) because certain areas in the brain light up

in other words,
there is not much more proof for the existance of "real reality",
than for phenomenoms such as "spiritual enlightenment" or "chi"..


Edited by lobotomix (11/19/08 05:10 PM)


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: lobotomix]
    #9272762 - 11/19/08 05:07 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

there is not much more proof for the existance of "real reality",
than for phenomeons such as "spiritual enlightenment" or "spiritual energy"..


Since there is absolutely no evidence of enlightenment or spiritual energy. Any proof kicks it's ass. However I disagree that there is "not much" proof  of concrete reality.

However being delusional or ignorant makes it easy to dismiss it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Icelander]
    #9272776 - 11/19/08 05:10 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

P.S. isn't it like,
kind of proven that the way we experience ourself and this world
is a product of the brain?

so if we are in pain or in pleasure,
it can be proven to be a chemically manifactured illusion.

so it's not because someone's "illusionary pain" can be made disapear,
that it's not helpful... because even though it's illusionary its very real.


Edited by lobotomix (11/19/08 05:16 PM)


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: lobotomix]
    #9272811 - 11/19/08 05:16 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)


P.S. isn't it like,
kind of proven that the way we experience ourself and this world
is a product of the brain?


This says nothing about the non existence of concrete reality.

Chemicals are real. They are part of the physical reality of US.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: deranger]
    #9272814 - 11/19/08 05:16 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

deranger said:
dude, if something can't be measured, it doesn't exist.





That is absurd. Do you think that radiation didn't exist before science developed a method to detect and measure it?


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Icelander]
    #9272856 - 11/19/08 05:23 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
This says nothing about the non existence of concrete reality.

Chemicals are real. They are part of the physical reality of US.



i do agree that there is such thing as objective reality,
like physical matter, chemicals, ...

but if the chemistry in the brain changes,
so does the way one experiences "reality".

if i physically hurt you,
the only 3 things which can be measured that u have been hurt is:
a) your experience (subjective)
b) the part of the body that is hurt will show traces
c) certain area in the brain light up

if someone practices chi, or experience spiritual enlightenment,
the only 2 (?) things which (to this date?) can be measured are:
a) their experience
b) certain area in the brain light up
c) certain traces of physical change in the body which have not been able to be measured to this day?



so there's not really more evidence for the existance of real things such as pain...
than for phenomena like CHI and Spiritual Enlightenment?


Edited by lobotomix (11/19/08 06:21 PM)


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: lobotomix]
    #9272884 - 11/19/08 05:28 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

the part of the body that is hurt will show traces.

(you mean like a gaping wound that might just cause death?)


certain traces of physical change in the body which have not been able to be measured to this day?

Are you telling me there is no difference between those two sentences.

HINT: The last one is just conjecture or wishful thinking.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
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Offlinezouden
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: mushroom people]
    #9272927 - 11/19/08 05:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mushroom people said:
Chi is real, scientists just get all pissy because they fail at measuring it.




Scientists don't "get all pissy" - they don't care, because it's not relevant. They know Chi is imaginary. It's the people who think it's a real force that get pissy when you tell them it's all in their head. Science is concerned with actual, real phenomena, not Eastern philosophy.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: zouden]
    #9273047 - 11/19/08 05:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Remember when the chi-nuts got all excited when an alleged chi master was able to knock students over without touching them?

Then a skeptic visited the dojo and was completely unaffected. Once again proving the power of S-Rays to block even mighty chi.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9273104 - 11/19/08 06:07 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

What about those monks that could supposedly dry the wet towels on their backs? Was that ever disproven? I only saw brief moments of this on a video some time ago.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Kupo]
    #9273135 - 11/19/08 06:11 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Changing your body temperature while difficult, is not impossible and does not violate any known law of physics nor require the addition of any mysterious chi force. There is no 'action at a distance'.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9273158 - 11/19/08 06:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The problem being that the true believer does not want to know the difference.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9273298 - 11/19/08 06:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hmm, good point. I wonder how they change their temperature though.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Kupo]
    #9273329 - 11/19/08 06:43 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

That is a fine question as long as you do not fall into the old trap: that something not currently explained or totally understood = magic or God or...


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9273369 - 11/19/08 06:50 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

ALIENS!

That's how they do it.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Kupo]
    #9273393 - 11/19/08 06:53 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

That and pixies are a perfectly acceptable explanation.


--------------------


Edited by OrgoneConclusion (11/19/08 11:05 PM)


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InvisibleArden
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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Icelander]
    #9274804 - 11/19/08 10:35 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Science is always the enemy until some group can use it to their advantage. :crazy2:

Like Dawkins said, more or less: Science supposedly cannot explain "God" (the religious God, not Einstein's God). The same people who support this assertion would throw a celebration if anthropologist, for example, stumbled upon any factual proof for incredible biblical claims.

There is no denying that strange phenomena does occur, and frequently. We haven't even touched upon the ultimate potential of technology and medicine. The more we look at physics, the more inextricable it becomes. And just because something doesn't conceptually exist now, doesn't mean that one day it won't, etc.

With those things in mind, and the understanding that science is only one (limited) paradigm for interpreting universal events, human experience and feeling can be overwhelmingly convincing as a source of knowledge. It is just important to remember that, as far as we know, it is incomplete and often inaccurate. Tripping or sober.


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: lobotomix]
    #9274886 - 11/19/08 10:48 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lobotomix said:
Quote:

deranger said:
dude, if something can't be measured, it doesn't exist.



i'm sure for someone doing ChiKung or other "energy work"
-at least something- can be measured.

maybe today we lack the technological equipment.
or maybe the only thing which can be measured is certain areas in the brain,
which do not light up in people who do not do the "energy work".



i'm probably wrong but,
when we are "sober", and therefor experiencing "real reality",
the only thing with which we can measure to prove that "real reality" exist...

is
a) because we experience it
and
b) because certain areas in the brain light up

in other words,
there is not much more proof for the existance of "real reality",
than for phenomenoms such as "spiritual enlightenment" or "chi"..




i wasn't serious... just so you know :smile:


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Re: Kundalini Reiki and Tripping [Re: Arden]
    #9275028 - 11/19/08 11:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

human experience and feeling can be overwhelmingly convincing as a source of knowledge




The beauty of this mindset allows shamsters to sell 500,000,000 Xtenze penile enlargement pills even though they don't work.


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