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jmg5
deadicated
Registered: 11/23/05
Posts: 635
Loc: miles above you
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: Akira]
#5337480 - 02/25/06 09:45 AM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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Not that I can help with your potency problems, just curious, what did you use to spawn to the poo?
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rDr4g0n
Young Hand
Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 587
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: jmg5]
#5337491 - 02/25/06 09:50 AM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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question. youre supposed to harvest before the veils break? i always thought it was just after they break.
-------------------- i can speel... im just too lazy to sppelcheck. My first trip (good read) - Speed Leaching Poo! - My Second Trip (with art)
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FooMan
Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: rDr4g0n]
#5337537 - 02/25/06 10:12 AM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
rDr4g0n said: question. youre supposed to harvest before the veils break? i always thought it was just after they break.
It's a matter of preference. Some people believe that potency is higher before the veil breaks, I'm not one of them. I pick mine after the veil breaks and the caps have started to flatten out a little.
-------------------- Quick WBS Prep
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WhiteBunny
How deep doesthe rabbit hole go?
Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 1,351
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: requiem99]
#5337576 - 02/25/06 10:35 AM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
requiem99 said: I just tried to trip off shrooms I grew myself using the PFTEK method with BRF/Verm (Koh Samui strain) and even a fairly good dose for me (1.4g dried grams ground into grapefruit juice) did barely anything at all to me. They blued a little from handling but not bad, and were fan dried for 18 hours after picking (down to about 65 percent dry based on weight). Should eating an eighth of BRF shrooms give you a level 3 trip if your tolerance for shrooms is TYPICALLY 3.5 for a level 3? (For reference, 1.3g in grapefruit juice is stronger than 3.5 straight up for me).
there are level 4 trips off of 2 grams from BRF and PF thought they were more potent when picked before the vail broke...no prints that way though.
WB
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wakeboard3584
Stranger
Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 1
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: HUBSonDUBS]
#5337606 - 02/25/06 10:48 AM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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i am no expert on the subject, but ive been trippin for a while and recently started cultivation and from my experience, letting the caps open too far DOES seem to make them less potent. Also, the 135 degrees does not sound like it helps. heat breaks down the chemical makeup of the shroom, in turn weakening potency. however, i dont know at exactly what temperature this happens. Ive also noticed that larger mushrooms, on average, have less potency than smaller ones. It almost appears to me that each batch of mushrooms can only produce so much psylocibin per batch, based on the nutrients they have to feed from in the pf cake, casing, ect, By harvesting the mushroom a lil earlier, i feel that even tho you get less weight, the weight you have will be more potent. hopefully this is helpful for you. again, i am no expert, but the information i have given u is from personal experience and countless nights of no sleep due to shroomy research lata
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coda
Banjo Goiter
Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 8,750
Last seen: 11 months, 22 days
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: wakeboard3584]
#5337709 - 02/25/06 11:35 AM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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Welcome to the shroomery!
But you need to read man! Like i said before, psilocybin BREAKS DOWN AT 400 F
When you kids will get it in your heads that psilocybin is a VERY stable chemical and can put up with a lot of mistreatement, then you'll finally get off this whole "heat degrades the potency of your mushrooms"
Lets talk about potency shall we since it seems to be the ONE THING EVERYONE is interested in.
Potency 101
Well all know that our mushies need nutrients to grow. Substrates with a higher nutrient base will produce more, and bigger, mushrooms. Adding ingriedients into your mixture that are rich in NITROGEN will increase your potency greatly from those that have low nitrogen content. This is why growing on poo and compost produce more, bigger, and stronger mushrooms. The high nitrogen content (along with other supplemental bacteria and nutrients) just have no comparision to WBS, Rye, or our beloved BRF.
Now that we know where potency comes from, lets take a look at the facors that affect the levels of alkaloids in your mushrooms. Before we even do that, however, let take a look at the two MOST ACTIVE chemicals in your mushrooms: Psilocin and Psilocybin.
Chemical Makeup and Properties of Actives in Mushrooms
Reading through the link we learn that Psilocybin a melting point of 400 F thats 200 DEGREES HOTTER then your average deydrator, its also much much higher then the boiling temps of water (which many of us use to make tea). SO learning this we can realize how stable this chemical really is compared to psilocin. Psilocin is the STRONGER(in terms of "potency") of the two chemicals but it is also the WEAKER(in terms of chemical breakdown). This is what degrades, when your mushrooms blue this is why, its the PSILOCIN breaking down (which would happen anyway, regardless of heat, its very sensitive).
So know that we know all this we can look at the factors which cause potency loss.
NOTHING. Besides letting your mushrooms mature to the point where they're about to rot on the cap, not one thing will cause your mushrooms to lose potency. Picking before the veil tears, after it tears, or after it "tabletops" WILL NOT CAUSE POTENCY LOSS. The debate between large vs small rages on and will NOT BE DETERMINED unless someone does a lot of research using GCMS tests on various sizes, substrates, etc.
So thats it, there's nothing else to tell. Growing mushrooms on substrates high in N will produce stronger, bigger, and more mushrooms. Harvesting times and drying temps WILL NOT decrease your potency.
Shitty substrains happen, weak mushies happen, its just a matter of accepting the fact that your genetics are weak and you need to start over. This is why agar work and strain isoloation should become impotant tools in any serious mycologists toolbox. Once you start isolating and cloning your best substrains you start avoiding these mishaps and guessing games.
Hope this was helpful.
-------------------- To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . . -JG i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug* -A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten) Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.
Edited by coda (02/25/06 11:42 AM)
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rDr4g0n
Young Hand
Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 587
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: coda]
#5337978 - 02/25/06 01:16 PM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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the longer you wait to harvest does not affect the psilocin content? though psilocin is more fragile, does it degrade when its just sitting in the shroom growing?
-------------------- i can speel... im just too lazy to sppelcheck. My first trip (good read) - Speed Leaching Poo! - My Second Trip (with art)
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krill
absolute gonzo
Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 521
Loc: mars hotel
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: rDr4g0n]
#5338001 - 02/25/06 01:25 PM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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i KNOW it's been said here numerous times...
but sometime you just have a crop of shrooms that just don't have any potency. they can look like THE FIRE, and not do shit.
it's depressing, but it eventually happens to everyone. think of it as "not being able to get it up" - HA HA!
-------------------- "DO NOT ADJUST YOUR MIND. IT IS REALITY THAT IS MALFUNCTIONING." - Robert Anton Wilson NO LEFT TURN UN-STONED
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hyphae
born to grow
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: coda]
#5338097 - 02/25/06 02:05 PM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
coda said: Welcome to the shroomery!
But you need to read man! Like i said before, psilocybin BREAKS DOWN AT 400 F
When you kids will get it in your heads that psilocybin is a VERY stable chemical and can put up with a lot of mistreatement, then you'll finally get off this whole "heat degrades the potency of your mushrooms"
Lets talk about potency shall we since it seems to be the ONE THING EVERYONE is interested in.
Potency 101
Well all know that our mushies need nutrients to grow. Substrates with a higher nutrient base will produce more, and bigger, mushrooms. Adding ingriedients into your mixture that are rich in NITROGEN will increase your potency greatly from those that have low nitrogen content. This is why growing on poo and compost produce more, bigger, and stronger mushrooms. The high nitrogen content (along with other supplemental bacteria and nutrients) just have no comparision to WBS, Rye, or our beloved BRF.
Now that we know where potency comes from, lets take a look at the facors that affect the levels of alkaloids in your mushrooms. Before we even do that, however, let take a look at the two MOST ACTIVE chemicals in your mushrooms: Psilocin and Psilocybin.
Chemical Makeup and Properties of Actives in Mushrooms
Reading through the link we learn that Psilocybin a melting point of 400 F thats 200 DEGREES HOTTER then your average deydrator, its also much much higher then the boiling temps of water (which many of us use to make tea). SO learning this we can realize how stable this chemical really is compared to psilocin. Psilocin is the STRONGER(in terms of "potency") of the two chemicals but it is also the WEAKER(in terms of chemical breakdown). This is what degrades, when your mushrooms blue this is why, its the PSILOCIN breaking down (which would happen anyway, regardless of heat, its very sensitive).
So know that we know all this we can look at the factors which cause potency loss.
NOTHING. Besides letting your mushrooms mature to the point where they're about to rot on the cap, not one thing will cause your mushrooms to lose potency. Picking before the veil tears, after it tears, or after it "tabletops" WILL NOT CAUSE POTENCY LOSS. The debate between large vs small rages on and will NOT BE DETERMINED unless someone does a lot of research using GCMS tests on various sizes, substrates, etc.
So thats it, there's nothing else to tell. Growing mushrooms on substrates high in N will produce stronger, bigger, and more mushrooms. Harvesting times and drying temps WILL NOT decrease your potency.
Shitty substrains happen, weak mushies happen, its just a matter of accepting the fact that your genetics are weak and you need to start over. This is why agar work and strain isoloation should become impotant tools in any serious mycologists toolbox. Once you start isolating and cloning your best substrains you start avoiding these mishaps and guessing games.
Hope this was helpful.
First off I'd like to say thank you. Just so everyone knows psilocin breaks down to psilocybin. BTW I have had the same substrain grown on BRF be as weak as cellulose then isolated poo with it and it really rocked my world! Also a good read Tryptamine HCl and making more potent shrooms.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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Anonymous
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: Delinquentes]
#5338123 - 02/25/06 02:11 PM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Delinquentes said: Jesus...not this debate again?
How do you old timers put up with this?
Most don't post in this forum, that's how they do it.
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HUBSonDUBS
Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 890
Last seen: 7 days, 11 hours
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: Anonymous]
#5338350 - 02/25/06 03:35 PM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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Well it was out of 2 12qt containers both were sponed from a print i made of b+ with WBS. The hpoo i found at a horse farm and it was in a big pile that the guy had racked up a few days before it wasnt wet poo it was for the most part dry i pasturized it for 2 hours spawned the wbs and about a week later it had colonized the two 12qt container. About another week went buy and i began to see tons of pins on both container another week went by and i harvested the viels had dropped probly 2-3 days before then. After i harvested i put wut i could in my food dehadrator out of the 2 cassings i got about 6-7 ounces dried. They dried in the food dehydrator very fast just over a day. They were very big shrooms id say 6-7 inches high and about 5-6 wide on the cap. If that helps you at all to determine anymore mayb somewhere i went wrong.
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coda
Banjo Goiter
Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 8,750
Last seen: 11 months, 22 days
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: HUBSonDUBS]
#5338460 - 02/25/06 04:33 PM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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I think all signs pretty much point to poor genetics man, just grab a syringe and some jars and start over.
-------------------- To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . . -JG i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug* -A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten) Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.
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coda
Banjo Goiter
Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 8,750
Last seen: 11 months, 22 days
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: hyphae]
#5338462 - 02/25/06 04:34 PM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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Hyphae- You're welcome :copface: just doing mah job, sir.
-------------------- To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . . -JG i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug* -A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten) Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.
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HUBSonDUBS
Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 890
Last seen: 7 days, 11 hours
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: coda]
#5338469 - 02/25/06 04:40 PM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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Ya thats wut ive done ive got 14 more 12qt containers colonizing with 3- South American, 3- Golden Teacher, 3- Equator, and 5- creepers. Should be an impressive site il put some pictures up some time next week when they are in the FC should be a dam good harvest and mayb some potency this time!
--------------------
Edited by HUBSonDUBS (02/25/06 04:42 PM)
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coda
Banjo Goiter
Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 8,750
Last seen: 11 months, 22 days
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: HUBSonDUBS]
#5338477 - 02/25/06 04:45 PM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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Im sure with that many strains cooking you're bound to end up with something good I need to get off my ass and prepare some quarts. My FC is empty.
-------------------- To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . . -JG i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug* -A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten) Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.
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Blek
Stranger
Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 983
Loc: The universe
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: coda]
#5338576 - 02/25/06 05:31 PM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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You should sticky your post in this forum coda..
copy/paste it in a new thread and title it "POTENCY LOSS TABOOS AND MISINFORMATION" or something. Thanks for posting.
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liloldme
( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°)つ=D
Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5,087
Loc: Zone 8
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: coda]
#5338596 - 02/25/06 05:37 PM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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maybe I should stop drying my mushrooms @ 450 Degrees F....
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noxy
Dr
Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 181
Loc: its more a time, not a pl...
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: coda]
#5338709 - 02/25/06 06:16 PM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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Coda hit the nail right on the head man a culture from spores is a coin toss baby and besides that the best you can expect with cubensis is around 1% or less of the good stuff cracker dry equates to about a 90% weight loss so if you eat 1.5 grams of partly dry (you said about 65%?) do the math you took less than you thought
Edited by noxy (02/25/06 06:22 PM)
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agar
old hand
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: noxy]
#5338734 - 02/25/06 06:25 PM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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There is also another factor to consider.
A substrate (even some queer h/poo) may be lacking in 1, or several critical precursor nutrients and/or trace/micro/macro elements that are essential to the formation of actives. (just a thought)
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coda
Banjo Goiter
Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 8,750
Last seen: 11 months, 22 days
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Re: VERY low potency from hpoo shrooms why? [Re: agar]
#5339154 - 02/25/06 08:31 PM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
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True, and if that is the case, while not rare its uncommon to see poo or bulk grows produce low or no potency shrooms.
-------------------- To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . . -JG i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug* -A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten) Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.
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