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Offlinefireworks_godS
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God As The Force
    #5335082 - 02/24/06 02:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

It is definitely possible to reflect on the conceptual God and the difference in our conceptions of God and see our impressions of this concept as being the force or identity that best preserves one's own sense of self, one's mentally held identity.

Excerpt from some sermon:

Quote:


But one feature to Process Theology that is probably right, and that is also pastorally lyric in its sensitivity, is the notion that as history unfolds, as billions of individual lives get led every day, God is the one who tenderly prehends, takes up up into, his very self every event, every person's story, and then preserves all of that forever. Nothing is lost. No person is ultimately forgotten.

That is not just a lovely thought, it seems biblically right, too. Science tells us that this universe is destined for destruction. Life as we know it cannot continue forever. So if there is no God to remember all things, then it becomes difficult to resist the conclusion that life, and the cosmos generally, has no point. True, it is possible to construct philosophical arguments defending the notion that even if each person winks forever out of existence at his or her death--and even if one day the earth burns up and so forever takes with it every piece of art, every novel, every play, every piece of music we have ever known in history--that even so there is value in the moment, beauty in evolutionary development, worthwhileness to life at least for however long we have it. You can argue that, but if that's all you can say, then the knock-knock-knocking of nihilism at history's door sounds louder and louder!

We need God as the Great Remembrancer. We need to remember Jesus, eating and drinking at his table in a living remembrance. If we have that, then the ache we feel when we remember that dear spouse or child who died, though still painful, does not have the last word. If there is a God who remembers that dear soul, then we shall see him or her again.




In this instance, despite the recognition that one "could" construct philosophical arguements that, even if there is no objective perspective that assigns ourselves meaning and value, a point, one grasps for a conceptual God that thus satisfies their ego's urge to be a permanent fixtation.

The reasoning for this God is entirely based on the fact that we suspossedly "need" this concept in order to function in some way. The more responsibility one takes for their own experience, the less this is necessary, and the more one accepts reality as it is presented, as well as the ultimate realization that anything which we identify with will end as we know it, the less one needs to cling to concepts that have no validity in their own right which also serve to remove ourselves from our present experience of our life.

Wake up call! :eek: We have our present experience. We have our current ability to effect reality through our interactions. We have no way of holding onto this experience, no manner by which we can keep these thoughts, these notions of identity, and preserve them. This illusory sense of identity has arisen from the situation we are in this life, and it lies contingent on this present form.

Why should we need more? Why do we need to rely on unsubstantiated, abstract concepts in order to satisfy a need that cannot truly be fufilled and shouldn't exist to be fufilled in the first place?

Since when aren't we enough?

Not exactly presenting some coherent point here, just spreading forth a random collection of related ideas. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblepsyka
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Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
Re: God As The Force [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5335101 - 02/24/06 02:35 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Unfortunately, our progression is still trapped in the 16th century. Most humans are unable to change, which is why many are still lagging behind. When will we get to the 18th century? Le sigh.

Obviously, we dont need magic and religion anymore; its been disproven by rationality!


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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Invisibledblaney
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: God As The Force [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5335124 - 02/24/06 02:47 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I very much agree. Just the other day I was reading something strikingly similar to what you're saying, so I figure I'll post it:

Quote:

We have said that the Middle Way means avoiding the extreme of indulgence in pleasures of the senses and the extreme of self-mortification. In that context the Middle Way is synonymous with moderation. Now in the context of dependent origination, the Middle Way has another meaning which is related to the earlier meaning but deeper. In this context the Middle Way means avoiding the extremes of eternalism and nihilism. How is this so? The flame in the oil lamp exists dependent upon the oil and the wick. When either of these are absent, the flame will be extinguished. Therefore, the flame is neither permanent nor independent. Similarly, this personality of ours depends upon a combination of conditions - defilements and actions. It is neither permanent nor independent. Recognizing the conditioned nature of our personality, we avoid the extreme of eternalism, of affirming the existence of an independent, permanent self. Alternatively, recognizing that this personality, this life does not arise through accident, or mere chance, but is instead conditioned by corresponding causes, we avoid the extreme of nihilism, the extreme of denying the relation between action and consequence. While nihilism is the primary cause of rebirth in states of woe and is to be rejected, eternalism too is not conducive to liberation. One who clings to the extreme of eternalism will perform wholesome actions and will be reborn in states of happiness, as a human being or even as a god, but he will never attain liberation. Through avoiding these two extremes, through understanding the Middle Way, we can achieve happiness in this life and in the future life by performing wholesome actions and avoiding unwholesome actions, and eventually we can achieve liberation.



http://www.buddhanet.net/funbud12.htm


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: God As The Force [Re: dblaney]
    #5335488 - 02/24/06 04:49 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

there are two paths to enlightenment, one is the path of absolute awareness which is what you preach. the other is the path of devotion. in the latter path the spiritual seeker surrenders himself to God. when practised correctly, both paths lead to the same place, the dissolution of the false sense of indentity.

edit: i meant this reply to go to fireworks god. i agree with the middle way excerpt.


Edited by Deviate (02/24/06 04:52 PM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: God As The Force [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5335498 - 02/24/06 04:53 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

No one can deny that there is a force driving the evolution and movements of the physical universe. After that, it's all man made lables.

The forces of nature alone are undeniable. What personal meanings and uses people ascribe to them certainly are deniable, subjective, relative to perspective, and changeable.

The way I see it, nothing that is produced from out of these forces is absolute in the eternal sense. It will all turn to ashes some day. Any agenda prescribed to the forces of nature where they are identified with human ones is a form of superimpostioning the ego self.

Perhaps that's a way in which people have learned to harness such forces for personal use, either directly like with water mills or indirectly through its examples of how energy can be used to make our own creations with it and the raw materials we have here.

What does one make out of a rushing river and water fall, a calm lake, a giant Red Wood reaching for the sky, a star that provides light and heat, wind currents or lightening bolts setting the forest ablaze?

Isn't it up to us as individuals to decide?

What good is just going, "there is a force creating things and making shit move around here? Most people want to understand why it is, how it works, and how to harness its power. Everyone just has their own ways of going about that.

To some extent, how can people even keep from superimposing themselves upon it? We are energetic life forms with the power to move ourselves and move others things with the forces of energy.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: God As The Force [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5337138 - 02/25/06 04:17 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
What does one make out of a rushing river and water fall, a calm lake, a giant Red Wood reaching for the sky, a star that provides light and heat, wind currents or lightening bolts setting the forest ablaze?




Very poetic expression that conjured up a ton of insightful imagery. :thumbup:

Quote:


Isn't it up to us as individuals to decide?

What good is just going, "there is a force creating things and making shit move around here? Most people want to understand why it is, how it works, and how to harness its power. Everyone just has their own ways of going about that.




Certainly. I'd like to think that each human being's interpretations of reality, combined, create more reality than reality itself has, if you see what I mean. :lol:

That is to say that the vast majority of our thoughts, concepts, and experiences result not simply from our direct perception of reality as it can presently be experienced, but yet from our interpretations of that direct perception.

It is our responsibility to create an effective model of interpretation that harnesses that energy you speak of. There is a force, an energy, and the nexus point at which we access it is our direct perception/being within our experience. We construct a model that interprets and makes choices, basically acting as a set of lens or mirrors that focuses that energy in such a way that we can utilize it.

The most important aspect of this model of interpretation, the mind and how it uses this experience, is to maintain a considerable consciousness of that direct experience, right here, right now. It is the energy, it is our life, and the acts of our mental abstract interpretations we tend to be more aware of and concerned with than that which we are interpretating.

I'm simply stating that the more we draw ourselves within our center of being, the less such actions as I referred to in my original post will occur, naturally. It will be no concern to us whether or not some being will save who we are and what we experience, keeping it eternal, in order for ourselves to be at peace and to satisfy our ego's demand to be permanent, as we will be directly experiencing life as it presents itself, to a greater degree and extent, and it won't matter to us, as we will have everything that we could have. :wink:

Quote:


To some extent, how can people even keep from superimposing themselves upon it? We are energetic life forms with the power to move ourselves and move others things with the forces of energy.





There is such a thing as realizing the nature of this energy and the manner in which we utilize it and conduct the energy through ourselves, furthering it and changing it (the greatest power and meaning we have :thumbup:), and then there is an attempt to cling to our experience and our idea of who we are (which is not who we are, more of an extremely limited, biased sense of who we are), an insecure need to be permanent and to be preserved, etc. etc. etc.

One is entirely possible, beneficial, fufilling, and rewarding, as it is life, and the other is an impossible addiction that can never be fufilled, and would never be experienced. :tongue:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: God As The Force [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5337588 - 02/25/06 10:38 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Yes! :cool:

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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