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remediator
IllustriousPotentato


Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 137
Loc: NOLA ATM
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New Orleans soil and fungi....
#5332012 - 02/23/06 02:57 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey all. Been a regular here before, now i have a renewed energy and slightly different focus for my cultivation efforts.
Looking for suggestions and advice on using gourmet and medicinals for use in bioremediation efforts here in the post-Katrina Crescent city.
I have excellent sterile technique skills and lots of experience and I'm currently simply seeking comments, discussion and advice on removing toxins from the soil using mushrooms. Of course, dishes and or spawn would be a boon, as I'm working with the non-profit Common Ground collective at the moment, and we're starting with playgrounds and schools, but intend to move to backyards and such. Any information about specific capabilities of individual species to remove/metabolize/concentrate lead, arsenic, diesel fuel derivatives, and other heavy metals is welcomed.
Some starter questions include:
1. Which species of mushroom that is commonly cultivated currently is most efficient at the removing the largest number of toxins?
2. What kind of ratio of substrate to earth would one need for tilling down 8-10 inches and introducing wood-loving spawn - ie. oysters?
3.Any good suggestions for disposing of fruitbodies that are theoretically contaminated? Lead is pretty persistent...
/anyway, i hope this post is well- received here. Mods by all means step in and redirect me if necessary.
hope to hear from anyone on this, as this project is worthy of tons of effort and hopefully can serve as a hands on myco-remediation experience for lots of eager homeowners, educators and regular hippy folk as well... peace
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Anno
Experimenter



Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,166
Loc: my room
Last seen: 6 days, 16 hours
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: remediator]
#5332496 - 02/23/06 06:02 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Welcome,
There is a new book, where you will find the answers to most if not all of your questions:
Mycelium Running: How Mushrooms Can Help Save the World
Quote:
A manual for healing the earth and creating sustainable forests through mushroom cultivation, featuring mycelial solutions to water pollution, toxic spills, and other ecological challenges. Mycotechnology is part of a larger trend toward using living systems to solve environmental problems and to restore ecosystems. Covers mycorestoration (biotransforming stripped land), mycofiltration (creating habitat buffers), mycoremediation (healing chemically harmed environments), and mycoforestry (creating truly sustainable forests). More than 300 full-color photographs.
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katshroomer
Stranger
Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 14
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: Anno]
#5340234 - 02/26/06 06:58 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have experience using mycological micofiltration and micoremediation. I'm in the area regularly. PM me.
Some areas of NOLA could use a healthy does of lignin peroxidases.
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pocketmulch
Stranger
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 29
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: remediator]
#5344214 - 02/27/06 04:57 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'll second the recommendation on Stamets' new book.
> 2. What kind of ratio of substrate to earth would one need for tilling > down 8-10 inches and introducing wood-loving spawn - ie. oysters?
Stamets recommends (in GGMM) a 5-50% inoculation rate for outdoor patches, with best experiences at 20%. But you'd probably be fine going on the lower end if you're not trying to maximize edible fruitbody production.
Keep us updated on the project! I used to live in and still love NOLA, and would love to go back to a city restored by mushrooms.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: pocketmulch]
#5344451 - 02/27/06 08:09 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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The experiments I've seen had substrate prepared and inoculated in burlap bags that were then layed side by side to completely cover the affected area. They eventually break down and become part of the soil below. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Stonerguy
I smoke penis


Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 5,538
Loc: Lost
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: remediator]
#5345635 - 02/27/06 02:40 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't think I can help you out any, but I just wanted to give you thanks for using your own time to help people in New Orleans.
+5 for you
-------------------- yawn... SG
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remediator
IllustriousPotentato


Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 137
Loc: NOLA ATM
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: Stonerguy]
#5345943 - 02/27/06 03:56 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ahhh. Thanks for the approval and suggestions. I own all of P.S. books except for Mycelium Running, tad shameful i must admit at this point.
But things are working out. There is a vested interest now in long term commitment, so there will be an effort to get a small lab going, and there is an effort underway to get donations from nearby production facilities in the form of spent substrate. Things are happening. I plan to start teaching and producing oyster spawn later this week... Glad to hear the shout-outs to NOLA... werd, this place needs some serious help all over...
Thanks Anno - forever wise and straightforward. Thanks Kat - check yer pms thanks Pocketmulch - I was thinking 5:1 no less than 8:1 for "millet-spawned straw" to soil. Thanks Rodge - I was actually thinking of this too. But considering spawning rows of straw/chips with grain, incubating for a couple of weeks, then tilling into the soil... Any comments on that? And yes, a copy of the book is on it's way... peace
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: remediator]
#5346154 - 02/27/06 04:43 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I doubt oyster spawn will survive below soil level. Try it first on a small scale. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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katshroomer
Stranger
Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 14
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5350728 - 02/28/06 07:24 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Now that I think about it...
I think Common Ground is already working on bioremediation in NOLA, you may want to check with them. They're pretty concentrated in the 9th ward though.
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mycofile
Pooh-Bah


Registered: 01/18/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: katshroomer]
#5353646 - 03/01/06 01:42 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah, all of the bio-remediation with oysters that I can remember used "bunker spawn" (burlap bags) or mounds.
A note about the spawn rate, particularly in mounds, stamets says he has seen much better results when layering the spawn rather than thorough mixing, although that is in contrast to what many would do in the lab, it works better in the field.
And if you are even considering actually trying to do any bio-remediation without reading Mycelium Running, you are needlessly swimming against the current....Pick it up from the shroomery bookstore, it's only like $20 something, add another $2 book and shipping is free.....
-------------------- "From a certain point of view" -Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi PM me with any cultivation questions. I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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remediator
IllustriousPotentato


Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 137
Loc: NOLA ATM
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: mycofile]
#5353758 - 03/01/06 02:29 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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The book will be here by tomorrow, guys. just had to wait on shipping.
And Common Ground is definitely who i am working with to get this going. The picture is finally emerging that cultivation of mushrooms on site is crucial to the majority of the projects they are undertaking. There are sites waiting for spawn, and we are waiting to hear about some donations currently of spent substrate blocks from nearby farms...
It looks like I'm going to be designing a Lab/incubation room/grow house to have on site, and that they'll be able to afford a nice hood and some fans and grow house gear...
I guess with The Mushroom Cultivator, Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms, and Mycelium Running I'll have most of the data i need.
But there is no replacement for hands on experience.
My reasons for shying away from layering the substrate on top of the beds would be theoretically that i would simply be building soil on top of the contamination, and that without some help with penetration the oysters would likely colonize all the lignicolous matter and then go into fruiting. Plants then grown on this bed would seek nutrients deeper down and come up with arsenic and dealdrin and lead anyway.
So I'm thinking heavy inoculation rates and "some" tilling under the beds...
Thanks for all your kind comments, and i look forward to hooking up with new orleanians who have any experience or want to learn some stuff.
Efforts are underway to begin brewing large quantities of compost tea, we are considering making our own EM, and the spawn production begins in earnest very soon. PEACE to all. Had a sick-ass Mardi Gras, BTW. I love this place
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: remediator]
#5354714 - 03/01/06 07:42 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you haven't already, you might want to consider the Mycorestoration seminar with paul stamets. It's in june. Scroll down the page to the Mycorestoration Seminar from the link below. http://www.fungi.com/seminars/index.html RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Anno
Experimenter



Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,166
Loc: my room
Last seen: 6 days, 16 hours
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: remediator]
#5357014 - 03/02/06 10:53 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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You might also write him an email, and tell him about your plans, I am sure he will be interested.
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Tsinaglou
learning...

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 82
Loc: midwest
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: remediator]
#5359666 - 03/02/06 09:38 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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If soil has some pore space and air exchange/moisture flow chemical degrading enzymes percolate from the mycelium down into the soil. Humic acid generated by a mulch layer helps cause soil aggregation and larger pore spaces.
I suspect the strongest generalist wood digesters would also break down the most organic petrochems. Pleurotis and Trametes being high on the list.
Radishes are sometimes used to open up a dense soil. Grow long-rooted types. Hypsizygus ulmarius (elm oyster mushroom) seems to like growing around the roots of radish/cabbage/collard family plants, resulting in deeper soil penetration of both the roots and mycelium. They natively grow on wood far from the soil so root symbiosis is a suprise. In Paul Stamets experiment with them he used sawdust spawn spread in and on the soil. They increased yeild of associated plants while Pleurotis decreased yields of green plants.
Isn't jimson weed grown to pull arsenic out of soil? I vaguely recollect hearing that it pulls heavily on some toxic minerals...
It's an untried experiment as far as I know, but combining mushroom spawn with deep-rooted grasses might give the best soil penetration.
Best of luck! Tsin
Quote:
remediator said: My reasons for shying away from layering the substrate on top of the beds would be theoretically that i would simply be building soil on top of the contamination, and that without some help with penetration the oysters would likely colonize all the lignicolous matter and then go into fruiting. Plants then grown on this bed would seek nutrients deeper down and come up with arsenic and dealdrin and lead anyway.
So I'm thinking heavy inoculation rates and "some" tilling under the beds...
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remediator
IllustriousPotentato


Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 137
Loc: NOLA ATM
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: Tsinaglou]
#5361232 - 03/03/06 11:28 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Wow, thanks Tsinaglou!!! Very encouraging information... My expertise is in sterile technique and spawn production, but most of the folks I'm around all day are permaculture/organic gardening folks who will love the information... Hopefully i'll be reading Mycelium Running by later this afternoon...
peace Remediator/Viscid/Chickenofthewoods
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remediator
IllustriousPotentato


Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 137
Loc: NOLA ATM
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: remediator]
#5376920 - 03/08/06 09:06 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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hey all. maybe this will get some discussion going...
Yesterday i made a mycelial slurry from a fresh P pulmonarius fruit. (Glovebox - sterile chunk from inside the stem - sterile water/broken glass) The master containers were yeast/ground millet/honey and the jars were fitted with homemade silicone injection ports, the idea being that it would be possible, with flame sterilized needles, to carry out inoculations of sterile quart grain jars outside of the glove box. I made myself an "airport" filter from a spare syringe and some 3M micropore tape covering the needle outlet nozzle in the syringe body, and then taped a patch of tyvek around the back of the syringe as a secondary precaution in case the tape adhesive failed me.
Now heres the clincher. I know that sterile techniques are simply the best way to produce large quantities of spawn, and i want to help these folks get that accomplished with as little effort and expenditure as possible... I really want a pre-packaged liquid product that i can inoculate with Liquid Culture via the airport/silicone port method to facilitate the ease of inoculations. I bought a couple of bottles of the Glaceau Peach flavored energy water, which has 5g sugar per 240 ml, which i calculated as 2.35 percent sugar BY WEIGHT, considering that water weighs roughly 1 oz. per fluid oz. Which brings me to this: Has anyone had success with this yet? My attempt ended abruptly when the masking tape i was using to adhere to the plastic bottle to support the silicone just sort of popped off. I'm thinking fingernail file to roughen the spot then go with the silicone directly onto the bottle. This method, if perfected, could be a simple solution to the difficulty most people have with sterile technique, ie. grokking the whole picture takes experience, time and patience, all of which are at a minimum in this disaster area i call home...
We've got all kinds of sources for bulk substrate, but few of them are fresh or all that useful. Trying to hook up with some sugar cane bagasse. I'm thinking that with enough liquid mycelium from clones, i can inoculate 5 gallon buckets (not full) of Coffee grounds and chaff to build up the spawn for beds of cardboard/mulch and to spawn some bunker bags. Waiting on some 5 lb bags of spawn from MushroomPeople that a friend ordered to make my grain masters, i have about 40 jars ready to get knocked up. Hoping today to get some little plastic ramekins with lids from a restaurant to start some agar. As the project builds momentum, i see the need for a diversity of species emerging and was wondering if it would be terribly inappropriate to request assistance here? Phanerochaetes chrysosporium and some of the non-fruiting delignifiers would be nice to have on hand. Trametes and king stropharia as well as ganoderma spp and laetiporus may do well here... ANY HELP, SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, DONATIONS, OR SUPPLIES ARE WELCOME AND ENCOURAGED.
LOVE REMEDIATOR
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BLUEDOG
Stranger
Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 14
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: remediator]
#5377696 - 03/08/06 02:24 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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If the mushrooms are being used for bioremediation, how do you dispose of the fruits. I wouldn't want to eat them since they would be full of heavy metals, arsenic, etc. Would you burn them and dispose the ash as toxic waste. Just a thought. Nola needs alot of help. I will be there for jazzfest and hopefully help with whatever I can.
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remediator
IllustriousPotentato


Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 137
Loc: NOLA ATM
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: BLUEDOG]
#5382864 - 03/09/06 08:11 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Bluedog - Certain species hyper-accumulate certain heavy metals, while avoiding uptaking others entirely or at least almost... Everything depends on soil test results at specific locations. If there are no significant heavy metals, the wide range of petroleum hydrocarbons are largely consumed by the mushrooms, which are typically going to be oysters. I certainly wouldn't want to eat the mushrooms from any contaminated area at all, but i wouldn't mind eating vegetables grown in the same area after a thorough cleanup with compost tea and some saprophytes. If in fact you ARE dealing with persistent accumulative metals like cadmium and arsenic, there are specific mushrooms that like those too. For instance, Shaggy Manes (Coprinus comatus) will concentrate cadmium, arsenic and mercury, but very little in the way of lead, copper or cesium. These mushrooms could be used in specific contamination scenarios to remove arsenic, but of course the arsenic would be in the fruitbodies. Not broken down. So harvesting and disposing of the mushrooms would be part of the plan then. Incineration is the probable outcome for heavy metal contaminated fruitbodies from a mycoremediation project...Don't ask me where to incinerate hundreds of pounds of arsenic laden shaggies, though, cuz i don't know.
Does anyone know where that might be possible?
Paul Stamets in Mycelium Running even suggests that the metals might be recovered from the incineration process...although I'm not too sure about how much there is to recover....unless you've got mass acreage.
(Of course you realize I'm regurgitating stuff from his new book, you should get it, it's as transformative and powerful as GGMM. It's well-written and pretty, too. Perty pitchers.
Oh. Today I turned my glovebox into a positive pressure box with computer fans found on the side of the road... Planning to use one of them there Tyvek suits to cut out for my filter tomorrow. Was hoping to get some spawn today finally, but i guess it's not here yet. Hopefully my P. Pulmonarius LC will take off and I'll have P. ostreatus and P. pulmonarius to get me started down here. My jars are just waiting..... Please pipe in at any time here folks. i could use anything at all.
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OldSpice
Geritol Breath...


Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 59,080
Loc: Crankytown, Texas
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: Anno]
#5384121 - 03/10/06 01:50 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Tons of drama in this place *steps away
-------------------- So hard to be ....WDWGFH? Texas is humongus compared to France Our Gair, who art in Texas, Paw Paw be thy Name.... My friends are thirsty
You never see a motorcycle parked outside a Psychiatrist office
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remediator
IllustriousPotentato


Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 137
Loc: NOLA ATM
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Re: New Orleans soil and fungi.... [Re: OldSpice]
#5398229 - 03/14/06 09:09 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Is posting a link to another thread cross-posting, if it's my own thread that i'd like to call attention to?
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