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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
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South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill
#5331012 - 02/23/06 09:46 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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"South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill Bill meant as a challenge to Roe v. Wade
Thursday, February 23, 2006; Posted: 1:25 a.m. EST (06:25 GMT)
PIERRE, South Dakota (AP) -- Legislation meant to prompt a national legal battle targeting Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion, was approved Wednesday by the South Dakota Senate, moving the bill a step closer to final passage.
The measure, which would ban nearly all abortions in the state, now returns to the House, which passed a different version earlier. The House must decide whether to accept changes made by the Senate, which passed its version 23-12.
"It is the time for the South Dakota Legislature to deal with this issue and protect the lives and rights of unborn children," said Democratic Sen. Julie Bartling, the bill's main sponsor."
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/22/dakota.abortion.ap/index.html?section=cnn_topstories
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: wilshire]
#5331145 - 02/23/06 10:37 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nothing like playing politics with lives...
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Skeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

Registered: 01/15/06
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: wilshire]
#5331853 - 02/23/06 02:05 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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The fundamental question of when a human life becomes a person is not an easy one to answer. Both sides have legitimate points to consider. If a fetus is a person, then abortion should be illegal as it would be murder. It should not matter how the innocent life comes into being. Notice that I said, "if." I am not wise enough to determine when 'personhood' begins. Sadly, I don't think anyone is.
-------------------- Sincerely, Skeptikos
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bukkake


Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: wilshire]
#5331907 - 02/23/06 02:25 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Utterly useless legislation, if passed. They are out of touch with reality if they believe this will stop people from having abortions. Backalley abortionists will creep up all over South Dakota or they will just cross state lines.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Skeptikos]
#5331946 - 02/23/06 02:35 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Skeptikos said: The fundamental question of when a human life becomes a person is not an easy one to answer. Both sides have legitimate points to consider. If a fetus is a person, then abortion should be illegal as it would be murder. It should not matter how the innocent life comes into being. Notice that I said, "if." I am not wise enough to determine when 'personhood' begins. Sadly, I don't think anyone is.
I agree with you that I don't think anyone is in a position to say when an innocent life comes into being. No one argument will definitively decide. It is for that reason that I believe people should be able to make that moral decision for themselves, instead of letting the government do it for them.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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Skeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

Registered: 01/15/06
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: gluke bastid]
#5332005 - 02/23/06 02:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well, pending further advances in science or moral pursuasion, I'm going to have to agree with you.
-------------------- Sincerely, Skeptikos
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: wilshire]
#5332055 - 02/23/06 03:10 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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The only way I can see this as a good thing is it allows more states' rights.
Nevertheless, I doubt that would happen. Individual states can ban abortions, but I doubt individual states can legalize marijuana without the federal government busting into every shop and house that their dogs bark at. So only on issues where the states can further erode our personal liberties rather than expand them does it seem to be permissible.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Ravus]
#5332080 - 02/23/06 03:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ravus said: The only way I can see this as a good thing is it allows more states' rights.
Nevertheless, I doubt that would happen. Individual states can ban abortions, but I doubt individual states can legalize marijuana without the federal government busting into every shop and house that their dogs bark at. So only on issues where the states can further erode our personal liberties rather than expand them does it seem to be permissible.
Wait so you think that the federal government won't do anything in response if this bill gets passed? I was under the impression South Dakota was just trying to get Roe V. Wade back on the front burner, and the bill was to force the issue.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: gluke bastid]
#5332095 - 02/23/06 03:25 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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This bill will be suspended by preliminary injunction and then squashed by a Federal Circuit Court. Then the Supreme Court will refuse to hear it.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5332098 - 02/23/06 03:26 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Human life begins in the 75th trimester.
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Skeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 145
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5332194 - 02/23/06 04:08 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Shouldn't abortions be considered legal as long as someone is not providing for his own sustenance? After all, one argument for abortions is that the fetus is a parasite living off of the mother. Wouldn't the logical extension of this apply to all those who consume more tax revenues than they produce?
-------------------- Sincerely, Skeptikos
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Skeptikos]
#5332206 - 02/23/06 04:16 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Not really, since those people have consciousness and actual lives, as opposed to being a few multiplying cells in the womb of the mother.
How much consciousness do you really think you had in the womb? Personally, I don't think I was at all conscious in any reasonable time when my parents would have potentially aborted me.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Skeptikos]
#5332223 - 02/23/06 04:29 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Shouldn't abortions be considered legal as long as someone is not providing for his own sustenance? no After all, one argument for abortions is that the fetus is a parasite living off of the mother. whose argument? Wouldn't the logical extension of this apply to all those who consume more tax revenues than they produce? no, even though I can think some corporations that fit this description that I'd like to see "aborted."
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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Skeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Ravus]
#5332261 - 02/23/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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BTW, my comments were not meant to be taken seriously. However, I have encountered quite a few fully grown humans where were barely sentient.
-------------------- Sincerely, Skeptikos
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Skeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

Registered: 01/15/06
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: gluke bastid]
#5332262 - 02/23/06 04:48 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
gluke bastid said: I can think some corporations that fit this description that I'd like to see "aborted."
I find myself in agreement with you once again.
-------------------- Sincerely, Skeptikos
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MisterMyco
Myco-fanatic


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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: bukkake]
#5332977 - 02/23/06 08:29 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
bukkake said: Utterly useless legislation, if passed. They are out of touch with reality if they believe this will stop people from having abortions. Backalley abortionists will creep up all over South Dakota or they will just cross state lines.
Maybe we should just legalize murder too, then?
As if that isn't what this is...
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth


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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: wilshire]
#5333064 - 02/23/06 08:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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More legislation of morality creeping into the courts through special interest groups.
Believe me legislating morality does not work in a country with individual rights and freedom. It simply does not work.
If abortion is illegal it turns something thats a legal buisness into a crime(sounds like something else huh?).Woman will just have backalley abortions and leave discarded fetus's... Police investigation is tied up to catch women who leave behind discarded fetuses and throw them in jail further costing taxpayers way more money then simply having a doctor stick a vacuum tube in her vagina.
Not only that but illegal abortions kill hundreds of women a year. To me this isnt a morality issue its a issue of individual rights concerning whether a woman can decide when or not to bring a child into this world.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
#5333092 - 02/23/06 09:07 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
The_Red_Crayon said:Believe me legislating morality does not work in a country with individual rights and freedom. It simply does not work.
I think all laws are legislating morality. As a society we deem it immoral to kill, steal, not pay taxes, speeding, whatever. Its all morality bieng legislated. Im not saying that all moral issues should be legislated, just that all legislation is based on sombody view of morality.
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth


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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: DieCommie]
#5333115 - 02/23/06 09:13 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
The_Red_Crayon said:Believe me legislating morality does not work in a country with individual rights and freedom. It simply does not work.
I think all laws are legislating morality. As a society we deem it immoral to kill, steal, not pay taxes, speeding, whatever. Its all morality bieng legislated. Im not saying that all moral issues should be legislated, just that all legislation is based on sombody view of morality.
You make an excellent point. Maybe if you said legislating morality that concerns the individual rights of a human being.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
#5333132 - 02/23/06 09:17 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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To me, the abortion issue has nothing to do with rights. It's a simple matter of what works and what doesn't work. If abortions became illegal, women would just turn to black market abortionists, putting themselves in danger, along with the fetuses. The money that it would take to enforce a ban on abortion would be enoromous. I feel that money would be better spent providing alternatives to abortion, by streamlining the adoption process, and helping people in poverty.
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MisterMyco
Myco-fanatic


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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
#5333203 - 02/23/06 09:36 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
The_Red_Crayon said: If abortion is illegal it turns something thats a legal buisness into a crime(sounds like something else huh?).Woman will just have backalley abortions and leave discarded fetus's... Police investigation is tied up to catch women who leave behind discarded fetuses and throw them in jail further costing taxpayers way more money then simply having a doctor stick a vacuum tube in her vagina.
If murder is illegal, people will do it anyway. the cops will have to investigate more and the hitmen won't be able tojust buy nice silenced sniper rifles to murder people with. What a waste of taxpayer dollars OMG!
Quote:
Not only that but illegal abortions kill hundreds of women a year.
Thats the dumbest thing I've heard today. Gold star for you. Illegal abortions kill thousands of people a year...
Quote:
To me this isnt a morality issue its a issue of individual rights concerning whether a woman can decide when or not to bring a child into this world.
Yea, thats the exact issue. What if she decides to have an abortion without the fathers permission?
What if the father gets a butchers knife and cuts the baby out in her sleep, should he be charged with murder?
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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MisterMyco
Myco-fanatic


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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Silversoul]
#5333206 - 02/23/06 09:37 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said: To me, the abortion issue has nothing to do with rights. It's a simple matter of what works and what doesn't work. If abortions became illegal, women would just turn to black market abortionists, putting themselves in danger, along with the fetuses. The money that it would take to enforce a ban on abortion would be enoromous. I feel that money would be better spent providing alternatives to abortion, by streamlining the adoption process, and helping people in poverty.
If you really want to make a difference, instead of such feel-good things as "helping people", why not do mandatory sterilizations on people who are in poverty or who aren't able to pass a simple IQ test?
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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heidegger
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: MisterMyco]
#5334094 - 02/24/06 04:15 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think the pro-abortion / anti-abortion discussions are so horrible and polemic ('What if the father gets a butchers knife and cuts the baby out in her sleep?' - my god) because it mixes up ethical questions with ontological questions.
The real core of the discussion is the ontological question: Is the developing fetus a human being in the same way we are human beings? If we can agree that yes, it is, almost everyone would also agree that abortion is wrong. If we can agree that no, it is not, almost everyone would agree that abortion is not that bad. A third answer can of course be that it cannot be decided and we have no means of ever arriving at a conclusion.
In most discussions like these, we have a participiant A that answers the ontological question with yes, and another participiant that answers the ontolgical question with no, but they are unaware about their difference. They try to argue on an ethical level (it's immoral! no it's not immoral!) or a practical level (murder cannot be justified by anything! But think about all the woman that might die in illegal abortions!) or on an ontological level that lies besides the core ontological questions (it's murder! no it's not murder!).
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: MisterMyco]
#5334431 - 02/24/06 09:47 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
MisterMyco said: If you really want to make a difference, instead of such feel-good things as "helping people", why not do mandatory sterilizations on people who are in poverty or who aren't able to pass a simple IQ test?
1. Because it would be too Nazi-esque. 2. Helping people is a virtue, and helping the poor would alleviate other problems such as crime. 3. It would be a waste of taxpayer money. 4. What about people who escape from poverty? Do we then have to de-sterilize them? 5. Not all people who have abortions are poor or unintelligent.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Silversoul]
#5334467 - 02/24/06 10:08 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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For me, there is an easy answer to the whole abortion debate...
When the country is split 50/50 on something, then regardless of how we feel personally, we must err on the side of freedom and leave responsible adults to decide what is right and what is wrong as it applies to them.
I personally see abortion as murder. However, half the population does not. Therefore, although I am pro-life, I support the pro-choice abortion movement. Rather than trying to force my moral values upon others through legistlation, I would much rather teach others, leading by example.
I would also ask MDs that perform abortions to re-read the Oath of Hippocrates that they took when becoming doctors: Quote:
I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfil according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:
To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art - if they desire to learn it - without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no one else.
I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.
I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.
I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.
A final thought... if I push to outlaw abortions, thus forcing a woman that wants an abortion to the black market, am I any less guilty if that woman dies from the illegal abortion than I would have been had the fetus died from a legal abortion? I can pretend that I am doing Gods work and saving the lives of unborn babies, but at what expense?
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth


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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: MisterMyco]
#5335820 - 02/24/06 07:19 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thats the dumbest thing I've heard today. Gold star for you. Illegal abortions kill thousands of people a year...
Sorry didnt realize i missed a hyperbole train and made a little mistake. Pretty sad however if thats the "dumbest" thing you've heard all today. I guess you must sit around and theorize about quantum physics.
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Seuss]
#5337265 - 02/25/06 07:20 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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So if half the population thought child molesting was all right just as long as it was your own kids you were molesting, you would go along with that.
I think the real solution is probably cultural rather than legal. Sex in our culture needs to focus less on putting peni into vaginae. If the guys would just learn to eat some pussy we wouldn't have these kinds of problems.
Also, maybe we could let them toss our salads once in a while.

Hey, you can't get pregnant that way... and it's dishwasher safe!
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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Alex213
Stranger
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Seuss]
#5337345 - 02/25/06 08:26 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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When the country is split 50/50 on something
Is it really split 50-50? Or does the massive majority support abortion whilst a very vocal, powerful minority of simple-minded fundamentalist christians oppose it?
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Alex213]
#5337354 - 02/25/06 08:31 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alex213 said: When the country is split 50/50 on something
Is it really split 50-50? Or does the massive majority support abortion whilst a very vocal, powerful minority of simple-minded fundamentalist christians oppose it?
I'll try to find statistics, but I know that a very very large amount of Americans are against abortion. It's not just Christian fundamentalists who make up 5% of the population.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5337852 - 02/25/06 12:17 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
Quote:
Alex213 said: When the country is split 50/50 on something
Is it really split 50-50? Or does the massive majority support abortion whilst a very vocal, powerful minority of simple-minded fundamentalist christians oppose it?
I'll try to find statistics, but I know that a very very large amount of Americans are against abortion. It's not just Christian fundamentalists who make up 5% of the population.
Actually, very few Americans are against abortion in all cases. However, there are also very few who support abortion in all cases. The majority support abortion in certain circumstances.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Silversoul]
#5337856 - 02/25/06 12:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I support more father and parental rights, guess that makes me an inbetweener.
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RandalFlagg
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Silversoul]
#5337882 - 02/25/06 12:33 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said: Actually, very few Americans are against abortion in all cases. However, there are also very few who support abortion in all cases. The majority support abortion in certain circumstances.
I wasn't referring to "special circumstances" (rape, incest, mother's life is in danger, etc..). I was talking about abortion in general. I do agree with you when you say that pro-choicers probably outnumber pro-lifers, but there are still a significant amount of pro-life people in America.
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zappaisgod
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5338111 - 02/25/06 02:08 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think the phrase you are looking for is "abortion on demand." I think abortion is the last refuge of the incompetent and we should give the incompetent every opportunity possible to remain childless.
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RandalFlagg
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5338139 - 02/25/06 02:17 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I think the phrase you are looking for is "abortion on demand." I think abortion is the last refuge of the incompetent and we should give the incompetent every opportunity possible to remain childless.
I agree. I always found it weird how the hardcore Right was often against income redistribution and also against abortion. Abortion is a great way to prevent income redistribution. When people who can't afford kids aren't having them anymore, income redistribution will go down.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5338168 - 02/25/06 02:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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They're not the hard core right. The true hard core right are the anarchists. The so-called religious right are liberals. Yet another group of douchebags who want to tell people what's good for them and how they should act in their own living rooms. Liberals.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5338175 - 02/25/06 02:31 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Main Entry: lib?er?al?ism Pronunciation: 'li-b(&-)r&-"li-z&m Function: noun 1 : the quality or state of being liberal 2 a often capitalized : a movement in modern Protestantism emphasizing intellectual liberty and the spiritual and ethical content of Christianity b : a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard c : a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties d capitalized : the principles and policies of a Liberal party
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zappaisgod
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Silversoul]
#5338191 - 02/25/06 02:42 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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That's pretty funny
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Silversoul
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5338192 - 02/25/06 02:43 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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What's funny is the way you totally redefined the word "liberal" to be synonymous with "authoritarian."
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zappaisgod
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Silversoul]
#5338243 - 02/25/06 03:03 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said: What's funny is the way you totally redefined the word "liberal" to be synonymous with "authoritarian."
Funny #1
"c : a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties"
Funny #2
"d capitalized : the principles and policies of a Liberal party "
"c" seems to be in direct conflict with "d", and "a" and "b" are jargon.
If you can't see the humor well than I'm sorry
"Can y'laugh till yer weak on yer knees If you can't, I'm sorry `cause that's all I wanna know" FZ.
What was that from anyway?
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Seuss
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5344212 - 02/27/06 04:56 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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> So if half the population thought child molesting was all right just as long as it was your own kids you were molesting, you would go along with that.
We are in the land of reality, not the land of pretend. In the land of pretend, yes, if half the population thought child molestation was ok, then I would accept it, though not agree with it. However, we are not in the land of pretend, and there is no way in the world that half the population is going to agree that child molestation is acceptable. This is a silly analogy.
> Is it really split 50-50?
I use the 50/50 roughly. My guess is that I am not too far off, though I would enjoy seeing numbers if anybody has them.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Alex213
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5344297 - 02/27/06 06:10 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The true hard core right are the anarchists.
WTF?
Yet more gutwind.
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Redstorm
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Alex213]
#5344797 - 02/27/06 10:31 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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No, he's 100% correct.
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Alex213
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Redstorm]
#5344953 - 02/27/06 11:32 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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No, he's 100% wrong. The history of anarchism is leftist history. For as far back as you care to go. There's been a very recent attempt for far right-wingers to call themselves anarchists but it doesn't wash.
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OJK
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: wilshire]
#5345060 - 02/27/06 12:14 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't subscribe to abortion being considered a moral issue. People take a complex scientific issue (when does a foetus become a person?) and apply their own personal opinions to it, as if they have some kind of standing from which to make a judgement. There is wide consensus among the medical community over when a foetus becomes a human being - there is debate over exactly how long the "safe" period of abortion from the time of conception is, but I see having an abortion after, say, a month, as essentially the same as taking an emergency contraceptive pill, or using contraception.
Subscribing to the argument that because an embro can become a human, it is entitled to the same rights as a human, is in my view no different from a view that the components of an embryo (i.e. sperm and ova) deserve similar levels of protection. In other words, morally speaking, an abortion at a sufficiently early stage in pregnancy is no different from using a condom - you've stopped a potential human being from existing, but so does using contraception.
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Seuss]
#5345110 - 02/27/06 12:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I guess if everybody was killin Jews you'd be fine with that too then?
That's no stretch of the imagination.
What if the government were putting millions of people in jail for illicit drug use each year. About half the population here supports doing that so I guess that makes the drug war ok then.
Most Americans supported the invasion of Iraq, so I guess that's Kosher too.
I just don't see the reasoning in going along with a majority if the majority is wrong.
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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heidegger
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: OJK]
#5345322 - 02/27/06 01:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Odiumjunkie said: Subscribing to the argument that because an embro can become a human, it is entitled to the same rights as a human, is in my view no different from a view that the components of an embryo (i.e. sperm and ova) deserve similar levels of protection.
The core of the problem is that many people cannot comprehend the basic characteristics of biological life, consciousness and identity. They need to have clear-cut distinctions: something is a person or it is not. Something is conscious or it is not. Something has an identity or it has not. This naive desire for clear-cut and obvious distinctions cannot be satisfied if you analyse the biological foundations of life deeply enough. For instance, if an embryo is equal to a human being from the time of contraception, how can it be that this same embryo can split into two monozygotic twins in a later stage of development? The making of a human being is a gradual process, not a singular event. All that we know is that there is no human in the beginning, and that there is a human in the end of the process.
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heidegger
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5345360 - 02/27/06 01:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baby_Hitler said: I just don't see the reasoning in going along with a majority if the majority is wrong.
How do we decide what is right and what is wrong? It depends on the set of rules you define to achieve the decision. Of course we can define it in a way so that truth is what the majority of people thinks. But is that the right way to determine the right thing? How do we decide what is right and what is wrong? It depends on the set of rules you define to achieve the decision. Of course we can define it in a way so that truth is what the majority of people thinks. But is that the right way to determine the right thing? How do we...
Moral of the story: Statements that use the terms right and wrong only make sense if we also state the rule-set that was used to derive these statements. Otherwise, these terms are given a problematic semblance of objectivity, especially in discussion about ethics.
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zappaisgod
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Alex213]
#5345929 - 02/27/06 03:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alex213 said: No, he's 100% wrong. The history of anarchism is leftist history. For as far back as you care to go. There's been a very recent attempt for far right-wingers to call themselves anarchists but it doesn't wash.
Anarchists want no government Leftists want total government
It is quite a common syndrome that when the feeble of mind are confronted with the utter untenability of their ridiculous beliefs they will swing to the opposite extreme without any stops in between. They feel betrayed and in a fit of rage take the exactly opposite but equally stupid position. "Well, if I can't have a government that will, will, will give me everything then I won't have any government at all." It is a common trait of the feeble mind that there are only absolutes. This is why the feeble minds that embrace leftism and the feeble minds that embrace anarchism are often one and the same, depending on which house of the crystal's karmic interphase with nano-jupiter the chakra is in. A kind of Stockholm syndrome if you will. Oh, the trauma. Poor babies.
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The_Red_Crayon
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5345972 - 02/27/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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the left started the Anarchy game in the late 1800s symapthizers of marx held bread riots under the tsars rule,
Mckinley was assassinated by a leftist anarchist Leon Csolgosz, verarious anarchist groups and unions were set up in the 1920s, with the advent of the FBI these groups tapered off when they were under federal scrutiny, Then in the 60's you had leftest groups like the Black Panthers and The Weather Underground and other various radical groups
Then in the later 70's the Neonazi/survivalist and radical extreme right groups popped out.Then around the time of Ruby Ridge and Waco in the early 90's these groups sparked up huge and even resulted in Oklahoma City bombing.
Leftist anarchists are still around in USA in large number especially whenever there is WTO meeting.
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zappaisgod
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
#5346090 - 02/27/06 04:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Anarchists want no government Leftists want total government
You wanna walk me through this one or does what I wrote above hold true?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5346107 - 02/27/06 04:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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He is correct about the background of anarchism, though. In fact, the end-all of communism is supposed to be anarchy.
In today's talks of liberals vs. conservatives, it makes more sense to view the latter as closer to wanting anarchy.
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater

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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5346115 - 02/27/06 04:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The only problem I have with it is that it makes labelling someone a leftist a lot harder.
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Gijith]
#5346129 - 02/27/06 04:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Just call them an asshole. It's much easier.
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heidegger
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Redstorm]
#5346275 - 02/27/06 05:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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During the russian revolution, the anarchists (black army) somehow were a third power besides zarists (white army) and communists (red army).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Guards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Makhno http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Communist
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Silversoul
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5346582 - 02/27/06 06:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Anarchists want no government Leftists want total government
Wrong.
Anarchists want no government. Totalitarians want total government.
Anarchism and totalitarianism both come in right-wing and left-wing varieties.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Silversoul]
#5346634 - 02/27/06 06:53 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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So what is it that defines leftists if not government being responsible for everything? And what does a left wing anarchist want? A non-government that does everything?
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5346775 - 02/27/06 07:25 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Left-wingers want equality. Proudhoun, a left-wing anarchist(in fact, the first person to call himself an anarchist), famously said "Property is theft." He believed, quite correctly that certain property rights could only exist through government intervention, and that without government, people would become much more equal. In fact, right-wing anarchists such as Murray Rothbard tend to be slightly more authoritarian, in that their idea of anarchy includes such things as police and courts.
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zappaisgod
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Silversoul]
#5346869 - 02/27/06 07:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said: Left-wingers want equality. Proudhoun, a left-wing anarchist(in fact, the first person to call himself an anarchist), famously said "Property is theft." He believed, quite correctly that certain property rights could only exist through government intervention, and that without government, people would become much more equal. In fact, right-wing anarchists such as Murray Rothbard tend to be slightly more authoritarian, in that their idea of anarchy includes such things as police and courts.
Left wingers want equality. Do you mean like in that Kurt Vonnegut short story where good dancers wear weights and smart people have sirens implanted in their heads that go off every few minutes, calibrated to how smart they are?
Property rights can only exist through government intervention? Well, I guess, but if Boss Hogg hires a bunch of retards to be killers and he takes control of land you can call that a government. I guess. I won't, but you can. But he sure seems to be exercising property rights. Without a government. Seems to me that you can have property rights with a government or without one.
If you have police and courts you can call it anarchy if you want. That would be linguistic anarchy. You can call it a green llama. It still doesn't exist.
Without government, most people become slaves. Unwilling slaves, not "poor oppressed idiot worker slaves who don't know how to throw off the shackles of the man slaves. Pass the chips while I change the channel slaves."
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wilshire
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Silversoul]
#5346886 - 02/27/06 07:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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anarchism is certainly not left-wing. who will redistribute wealth when there is no state?
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Silversoul
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: wilshire]
#5346916 - 02/27/06 07:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
anarchism is certainly not left-wing. who will redistribute wealth when there is no state?
Did you not read my post? Left-wing anarchists do not want some governing body to "redistribute" the wealth. They want to destroy the institutions which create the wealth gap in the first place.
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wilshire
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Silversoul]
#5346949 - 02/27/06 08:04 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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They want to destroy the institutions which create the wealth gap in the first place.
i don't think there is any peaceful way to destroy the fact that some people are more productive than others.
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RandalFlagg
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: wilshire]
#5346992 - 02/27/06 08:16 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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There are decidedly Leftist anarchists and decidedly Rightist anarchists. Both tend to be of the utopian mindset.
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wilshire
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5347040 - 02/27/06 08:32 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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they're both saying that there should be no government. beyond that, there are differences, but since they cannot be political ones in the absence of government, i don't see how either can be divided on political differences of left\right.
anarchy means absence of government. absence of material inequality is a completely different goal (and one that is about as realistic and consistant with anarchy as anarchy is with itself).
i'd be completely fine with absence of material inequality right along side absence of government. i've never heard a "leftist" anarchist explain how that would ever work, but then i've never heard anyone explain how any kind of anarchy would ever work.
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d33p
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Silversoul]
#5347288 - 02/27/06 09:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said:
Quote:
anarchism is certainly not left-wing. who will redistribute wealth when there is no state?
Did you not read my post? Left-wing anarchists do not want some governing body to "redistribute" the wealth. They want to destroy the institutions which create the wealth gap in the first place.
Isn't it painfully obvious to anyone with an inkling of common sense that humans will create material wealth gaps irregardless of the institutions in place.
Someone is always gonna go and pee on your cheese.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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RandalFlagg
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: wilshire]
#5347318 - 02/27/06 09:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said: they're both saying that there should be no government. beyond that, there are differences, but since they cannot be political ones in the absence of government, i don't see how either can be divided on political differences of left\right.
Granted, most of the differences between the two deal with non-political beliefs. How will Man act? What are Man's natural inclinations and what kind of lifestyle is most conducive to His welfare? The Leftist anarchists usually envision communes where everyone is equal, excessive materialism has disappeared, and everybody lives happily ever after. Rightist anarchists usually envision no authority stifling Man's economic behavior and they are willing to accept disparity.
I would have to brush up on my political theory, but there are a gazillion branches of anarchism. Most of them quite clearly call for some type of authority, just not a powerful central authority. Even Marx called for "councils" and stuff like that.
Quote:
wilshire said: i'd be completely fine with absence of material inequality right along side absence of government. i've never heard a "leftist" anarchist explain how that would ever work, but then i've never heard anyone explain how any kind of anarchy would ever work.
Because it won't. People with utopian dreams are either young, naive, or stupid.
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Alex213
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5348142 - 02/28/06 02:13 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Leftists want total government
Where did you get this bullshit from?
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Alex213
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: wilshire]
#5348151 - 02/28/06 02:16 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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anarchy means absence of government. absence of material inequality is a completely different goal (and one that is about as realistic and consistant with anarchy as anarchy is with itself).
i'd be completely fine with absence of material inequality right along side absence of government. i've never heard a "leftist" anarchist explain how that would ever work, but then i've never heard anyone explain how any kind of anarchy would ever work.
Then you need to do a lot more reading on the subject. The first thing that happened when the anarchists took over in parts of spain during the civil war was rich people in the community had their wealth shared equally with everyone else.
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Alex213
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: wilshire]
#5348168 - 02/28/06 02:28 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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anarchism is certainly not left-wing
You've never met an anarchist have you. Look up a meeting of your local anarchist group and go along. Start spouting right-wing ideas.
Just one thing - make sure you have a dental appointment booked for the following day as your teeth will need an awful lot of work.
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Seuss
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Alex213]
#5348267 - 02/28/06 04:11 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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> I guess if everybody was killin Jews you'd be fine with that too then?
Again, we are not in pretend land, we are in the world of reality. How can you possible go from "When the country is split 50/50 on something, then regardless of how we feel personally, we must err on the side of freedom and leave responsible adults to decide what is right and what is wrong as it applies to them." to "I guess if everybody was killin Jews you'd be fine with that too then?"
Why does me accepting something have to be the same as me endorsing something? Do you not understand the concept of personal responsibility? Do you not understand the concept of ignoring other people's moral failings hoping that they will ignore your own moral failings? Do you not understand the concept of let he who is sin free throw the first stone? I don't need the government telling me what is right and what is wrong. I can figure that one out on my own.
The issue doesn't matter... be it abortion, gay marriage, drug use, killing Jews ( ), or anything else, when the population is split 50/50, then we must swallow our pride when we disagree, and err on the side of freedom. I have no more right to tell you that you cannot have buttsex than you have the right to tell me that I must have buttsex. This is a simple concept that doesn't requite a lot of thought... but for those that like to live in the land of pretend thinking up outrageous examples that would never happen, then perhaps I should amend my original statement to include something like, "that doesn't harm other people"...
> I just don't see the reasoning in going along with a majority if the majority is wrong.
Again, I said nothing about going along with a majority... I said, when the country is split on something 50/50... which means no majority... then we must allow each individual to decide for on their own what to do. In fact, this is the exact opposite of "going along with a majority". When there is no clear majority, then we have no right to arbitrarily pick one side or the other to be the majority forcing that sides views upon the population. Instead, when there is no clear majority, we have to let each side do as they please and look the other way when we disagree. This is known as freedom, and it isn't always easy.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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wilshire
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Alex213]
#5348317 - 02/28/06 05:10 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The first thing that happened when the anarchists took over in parts of spain during the civil war was rich people in the community had their wealth shared equally with everyone else.
they "had their wealth shared"? who shared their wealth for them?
You've never met an anarchist have you.
to the extent that i believe no government is legitimate, and that governments should be reduced in size and power and much as possible, i am one. if anarchism is a 'left' thing, why are the 'lefts' on this board almost always arguing (against the 'rights') for greater government involvement?
make sure you have a dental appointment booked for the following day as your teeth will need an awful lot of work.
and i know that any anarchist respects freedom of thought and freedom of speech. it's no surprise that your 'left' anarchists do not - they are not anarchists.
why would they want to kick my teeth in anyway? in a political sense, how would my 'right' anarchy differ from their 'left' anarchy? would they not have to be identical in a political sense, seeing that neither could have a government and truly be called anarcy?
Edited by wilshire (02/28/06 05:21 AM)
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Alex213
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Seuss]
#5348380 - 02/28/06 06:07 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Was that quick-reply you used there Seuss? I didn't ask you any of those questions.
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Alex213
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: wilshire]
#5348390 - 02/28/06 06:18 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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they "had their wealth shared"? who shared their wealth for them?
Anarchists.
to the extent that i believe no government is legitimate, and that governments should be reduced in size and power and much as possible, i am one
That's a extremely limited view of anarchism. Anarchists also believe humans have dignity based on love of liberty and a desire to help each other. Power and money are obstacles to this and are to be abolished all together. Anarchists believe in overthrowing capitalism.
are the 'lefts' on this board almost always arguing (against the 'rights') for greater government involvement?
I think you misunderstand. If the only choice is between government involvement or allowing rich unanswerable corporations to devastate the environment and society then yes - have greater government involvement. That doesn't mean they support more government, simply that the alternative is infinitely worse.
it's no surprise that your 'left' anarchists do not - they are not anarchists.
According to who?
I'm simply making the point that if you go to an anarchist meeting with your current view that anarchists are right-wingers you are in for a serious wake-up call.
in a political sense, how would my 'right' anarchy differ from their 'left' anarchy?
In what sense wouldn't it differ?
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Alex213]
#5348408 - 02/28/06 06:39 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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> Was that quick-reply you used there Seuss? I didn't ask you any of those questions.
Sorry Alex213, a quick-mis-reply... was supposed to be a reply to Baby Hitler, I believe.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 days
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Alex213]
#5348515 - 02/28/06 08:08 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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In what sense wouldn't it differ?
to be anarchist, they would both have to support zero government, and therefore, there could be no differences of a political nature between the two.
it would be like saying there are religious differences that define different camps of atheism.
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: wilshire]
#5348581 - 02/28/06 08:35 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The fundamental difference between "Right" anarchists (i.e. Murray Rothbard) and "Left" anarchists (i.e. anarcho-syndicalists) is that the Right anarchists are satisfied with abolishing government. That isn't enough for Left anarchists -- they would also abolish all forms of "hierarchy". This means (to a Left anarchist) that (among other things) capitalist practices must not be permitted, because they assert that Capitalism cannot exist without hierarchy.
It's not enough for a Left anarchist to eliminate the political bosses; the economic "bosses" must also be eliminated. If an economic activity cannot take place through one-man businesses or through "co-op" type practices, that economic activity will not be permitted.
It's been a long time indeed since there's been a discussion in this forum regarding the follies of Left anarchism. I'm tempted to bump some of the classic anarchy threads from a few years back and use them as a starting point for further discussion. It would make more sense than having this thread on an abortion bill in South Dakota further hijacked into a debate on anarchists.
Anyone with me on that?
Phred
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Alex213]
#5349076 - 02/28/06 12:01 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alex213 said: Leftists want total government
Where did you get this bullshit from?
Communist manifesto
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5349137 - 02/28/06 12:18 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The Communist manifesto does not say anything about total government.
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Skeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 145
Loc: Rome, west side
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Silversoul]
#5349263 - 02/28/06 12:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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For communism to be put in place without government would require total agreement from everyone in the communist society. However, when everyone does not agree, some people must be governed by others to force their compliance. Whether those doing the forcing claim they are anarchists, working for the government, the people, or God makes no difference in their actions, they are a de-facto governors over those that they are aggressing against.
-------------------- Sincerely, Skeptikos
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Skeptikos]
#5349277 - 02/28/06 12:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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This thread has been motherfuckin' jacked!
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5349323 - 02/28/06 01:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Indeed it has been jacked.
If contributors to this thread can't get it back on track -- addressing the implications of South Dakota's anti-abortion bill -- I'll presume no one has more to say on the topic and I'll lock the thread.
Phred
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Phred]
#5349353 - 02/28/06 01:17 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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You only get one warning. This is that warning.
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Skeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 145
Loc: Rome, west side
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Phred]
#5350404 - 02/28/06 05:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Haven't some communist governments required abortions? Shouldn't anarchy be our guide when it comes to abortions?
-------------------- Sincerely, Skeptikos
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill [Re: Phred]
#5354947 - 03/01/06 08:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said: It's been a long time indeed since there's been a discussion in this forum regarding the follies of Left anarchism. I'm tempted to bump some of the classic anarchy threads from a few years back and use them as a starting point for further discussion. It would make more sense than having this thread on an abortion bill in South Dakota further hijacked into a debate on anarchists.
Anyone with me on that?
Phred
Yeah, please bump that shit.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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