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OfflineschmutzenS
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Bundleflower
    #5330726 - 02/23/06 07:06 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Supposedly a common Midwest plant rich in n,n,DMT without bufo or gramine.  Anyone find some growing in their area or try an A/B extraction?  thank you :tongue2:


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OfflineschmutzenS
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Re: Bundleflower [Re: schmutzen]
    #5334182 - 02/24/06 06:42 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Would anyone know the reliability of vendor's seeds? or have any luck growing?


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OfflineschmutzenS
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Re: Bundleflower [Re: schmutzen]
    #5341885 - 02/26/06 05:15 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

bump


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OfflineschmutzenS
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Re: Bundleflower [Re: schmutzen]
    #5351834 - 03/01/06 12:06 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I have indeed seen this growing in my area.

The map below shows areas where native Illinois Bundleflower plants grow wild but it can be planted and will grow over a much wider area than shown. USDA plant hardiness zones 3 to 9.



Seeds are cheap through legitimate wildflower catalogs.

Illinois Bundleflower approximate coverage in square feet
1 packet - $ 2.50 + shipping 150 seeds 30 sq ft
1 ounce - $ 5.00 4,670 seeds 230 sq ft
1 pound -$22.00 74,720 seeds 3,680 sq ft

Desmanthus illinoiensis
(des-MAN-thus il-i-noien-sis)
Illinois Bundleflower

Habitat sun
Bloom Period July
Color white
Height 36 to 60"
Moisture dry to moist
Plant Spacing 12 to 24 inches
Lifespan Perennial


So that leaves the question of which part would contain the highest alkaloids and why is that no one has posted results of working with this plant?


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OfflineTheido
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Re: Bundleflower [Re: schmutzen]
    #5352068 - 03/01/06 02:26 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I have heard that the roots/rootbark dont contain too much of the effective substance. 0.03% is what was suggested on one forum.


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OfflineschmutzenS
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Re: Bundleflower [Re: Theido]
    #5352452 - 03/01/06 06:42 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Good to know, thank you. So it may take a few acres of guerilla Prairie Mimosa to yield a few doses. ~ 30mg/100gm.


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"Blow up your TV, throw away your paper.  Go to the country, build you a home."


Edited by schmutzen (03/03/06 02:20 AM)


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Invisiblecricket
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Re: Bundleflower [Re: schmutzen]
    #5352629 - 03/01/06 08:21 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I have it growing in the wild here too. Most of the locals call it "sensitive plant"
I remember reading that the highest content was supposed to be in the roots. They form knots on the roots kind of like peanuts or tiny potatoes. The highest consentration was found in them.
I'm not sure though, I have never worked with it before. Most of the info I found was old. I did a little research on it after I ID'd it in the field behind my old house.
They seem to like a sandy soil and lots of sun. Around here they grow best in areas with some shelter from the wind. Along tree rows, on the slope in larger ditches. I have found them in tall grass fields but they were small and spread out.

I am curious about yields too. Hasn't ANYONE here worked with this plant.


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OfflineschmutzenS
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Re: Bundleflower [Re: cricket]
    #5352966 - 03/01/06 10:07 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Hey cricket I didn't know you were still around, good to see you :grin:

Quote:

They form knots on the roots kind of like peanuts or tiny potatoes. The highest consentration was found in them




Neato burrito, every little bit of info helps.


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OfflineTheido
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Re: Bundleflower [Re: schmutzen]
    #5352997 - 03/01/06 10:15 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Ok, since no one seems to have much info Ill post this, which was copy pasted from entheogen.com. This info was written by "marsofold"



A kilogram of Desmanthus will give you about 150milligrams of DMT. Three doses. Zero also has done the extraction and both of us got virtually identical yields. The only extra step required is defatting. I have found that the most efficient way to defat in terms of xylene usage is to extract it without defatting to goo by evaporating the naptha. Then re-acidify the goo with straight vinegar, defat with xylene, basify again, extract with naptha and freeze-precipitate. Since the low yield per unit weight mandates using alot of kilograms of Desmanthus to get a decent amount of DMT, you can either use alot of xylene for the defat. Or do what I did. Extract to goo, then start over. That method uses MUCH less xylene to defat. I'm planning on growing lotsa Desmanthus Leptolobus in a few months. Trout's book on Desmanthus says that Leptolobus is a much more reliable plant source for DMT than Illinoisis. Although Illinoisis is intensely cold-hardy, Leptolobus can also take some pretty cold temps too. The only bitch about it is that it takes 6 1/2 kilograms of the root to get a gram of DMT. No using a crockpot for that kinda weight..

I used the whole root to do the extraction. I'm planning on growing a bunch, then extracting a sample of it in the fall. If the yield is reasonable (3-doses/kilogram), then I'll pull HALF of it up. Replant more in spring to replace what was pulled. Then extract a sample of the 2nd year plants to see if the difference is worth leaving the plant grow for two years. At 150milligrams/kilogram the percentage DMT is: 0.150/1000 X 100% = 0.015% DMT. Low, but grows in a cold climate...

Trout's book on Desmanthus says that the published upper-range values are bunk. That of many samples taken, none even came close. If Zero had gotten significantly different numbers than I did, then I'd wonder. But since both of his tries came out the same as mine, I feel confident that 0.015% is rather accurate. I'd believe maybe...0.03%, but certainly no higher.



Hope this was useful.

Theido


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OfflineschmutzenS
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Re: Bundleflower [Re: Theido]
    #5353911 - 03/01/06 03:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Much appreciated Theido :thumbup:


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OfflineKaptKid
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Re: Bundleflower [Re: schmutzen]
    #5359904 - 03/02/06 10:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Good info. Hope this thread grows. :thumbup:


:sun:


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Offlinewietstocker
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Re: Bundleflower [Re: KaptKid]
    #5360458 - 03/03/06 01:57 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

'Sensitive plant' refers to the species Mimosa pudica... it looks extremely similar to Desmanthus except those intricate leaves will fold up tight when disturbed. Desmanthus will behave in the same manner at nightfall only to reopen in the morning, but otherwise tolerates handling without reaction. I'm not sure where M. pudica is native to, but it'd be worth comparing to the Desmanthus if you're planning on doing any wild collecting.

I've attempted cultivation of the Desmanthus a few times with poor results. They take a long time to establish themselves past the seedling stage, growing pretty slowly. I had trouble with them overwintering in my area as well. They came out of dormancy months after everything else came to life; sometime in June if I remember correctly. That was in a zone 4 climate, which I suspect might be borderline as far as their tolerances go.


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Edited by wietstocker (03/03/06 02:01 AM)


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OfflineschmutzenS
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Re: Bundleflower [Re: wietstocker]
    #5360494 - 03/03/06 02:17 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Did you happen to notice a differnce in dormancy between what was planted and what was already growing?

Quote:

Also, in the recipe for ?prairie ayahuasca? on p. 717, it is stated that 30 g of root-bark of Desmanthus illinoensis constitutes a dose with 3?4 g of Peganum harmala seeds, whereas I found, experimenting with two different strains, that twice this quantity was necessary.




Enzyklop?die der psychoaktiven Pflanzen: Botanik, Ethnopharmakologie und Anwendung by Christian R?tsch

http://www.erowid.org/library/review/review.php?ID=190


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Offlinewietstocker
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Re: Bundleflower [Re: schmutzen]
    #5362100 - 03/03/06 04:04 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Well, budleflower isn't native to the region where I attempted to propagate, so I can't make that comparison. With regard to native plants and those well-adapted to my climate, they were MUCH later. I struggle for a good, rational explanation. They were in a large 6 gallon pot for most of their early life before being transplanted into the ground sometime in late summer the previous year. Some sort of transplant stress may have caused them to check a bit. In addition, my area can be known for chilly weather late into the spring, especially at night. Perhaps these night temperatures just didn't allow for those biochemical changes to occur.


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Invisiblecricket
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Re: Bundleflower [Re: wietstocker]
    #5362226 - 03/03/06 04:48 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Hey Namaste.
How have you been? Got anything new growing? I don't post here very often but I try to check in every day or two.
I might finaly be able to return that favor I owe you. I am planing to got out to a friends farm this weekend. He had tons of bundleflower growing out around one of his ponds. We have had a very mild winter this year and I am hoping that I will still be able to find seeds on the plant. If I have any luck I will Pm you for an address.
If you don't here from me by Tuesday, Pm me.

weitstocker: I have no idea why they call it "sensative" I have tried to explain the differance to so many people... I gave up and started calling it that too. When in Rome...
I wonder what people here would think if they saw a real sensative plant. Probably scare the hell out of them.


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OfflineschmutzenS
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Re: Bundleflower [Re: cricket]
    #5364854 - 03/04/06 02:48 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

wietstocker - I know hills generally stay a little warmer at night than valleys, cricket listed some places where they're know to do better maybe those locations would help.  I wonder if planting with a good bit of mulch would help insulate and improve their chances?

cricket - good, thanks for asking, how about you? my camera is down at the moment, I'll have to get back to you on that one.

no worries, it was a gift :tongue2:

I wonder how many plants need to be dug up for an kilo of peanuts?  If you get any free time, maybe we could work out a trade?


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