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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: Basilides]
    #5360935 - 03/03/06 08:46 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

You just haven't taken enough drugs and experienced the general public at the same time.

Drop some acid, go to the mall, and try to find God there. I'll even give you a head start - find the homeless person scooping change out of the fountain near the food court, they'll be able to help you in your quest.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: Sclorch]
    #5363311 - 03/03/06 10:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I've tripped everywhere locally that I can think of, including a mall.

As for homeless folks, from my experience, God seems to get them by alot more than panhandling. With a bit of luck, next winter will mercifully put the older ones out of their misery, returning them to God's bosom where poverty is only a distant dream.

Yep, this world ain't perfect. Regardless how bad and awful it gets, in the end it's just a blink of the eye for the soul. Poverty has been around for thousands of years, and fortunately, the vast majority of humans through history who were unlucky enough to spark in a poverty stricken situation (or worst, under despotic regimes and inquistions) are now dead and have been burning in God's breast for centuries now (redundent unfathomable compassion).

The face of God is everywhere my friend, even in the bloodfields of Iraq, like a soul sponge. It's the greatest love story ever told.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: Sclorch]
    #5363410 - 03/03/06 11:15 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
You just haven't taken enough drugs and experienced the general public at the same time.

Drop some acid, go to the mall, and try to find God there. I'll even give you a head start - find the homeless person scooping change out of the fountain near the food court, they'll be able to help you in your quest.



In case you forgot, my life-changing acid trip where I saw Christ and achieved gnosis did not occur in some forest or mystical setting, but at a rave, full of teenage candy kids and loud techno music. Not exactly the most spiritual setting, and yet I had a greater spiritual revelation that night than I have on any other trip.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: Silversoul]
    #5364339 - 03/04/06 11:39 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

That wasn't Christ... that was DJ Keoki in a Buddy Christ costume.

Beliefs are dangerous. That is all.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: Sclorch]
    #5364384 - 03/04/06 11:49 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
Beliefs are dangerous.



That is a belief.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Registered: 05/19/05
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: Silversoul]
    #5364593 - 03/04/06 01:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Sclorch said:
You just haven't taken enough drugs and experienced the general public at the same time.

Drop some acid, go to the mall, and try to find God there. I'll even give you a head start - find the homeless person scooping change out of the fountain near the food court, they'll be able to help you in your quest.



In case you forgot, my life-changing acid trip where I saw Christ and achieved gnosis did not occur in some forest or mystical setting, but at a rave, full of teenage candy kids and loud techno music. Not exactly the most spiritual setting, and yet I had a greater spiritual revelation that night than I have on any other trip.




Was it a bad trip? I mean, were you frightened at any point?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5364727 - 03/04/06 02:10 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Nope. Instead, I felt a feeling of infinite love and compassion. It was Christ conscousness.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: Silversoul]
    #5365142 - 03/04/06 04:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Sclorch said:
Beliefs are dangerous.



That is a belief.




"History has shown that people have slaughtered each other in wars, inquisitions, and political actions for centuries and still kill each other over beliefs in religions, political ideologies, and philosophies."
-Jim Walker

This is not a belief - it is an observation.




--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #5365244 - 03/04/06 05:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
This is not a belief - it is an observation.



You mean, just like how I observed Christ?


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: Silversoul]
    #5365330 - 03/04/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

You mean, just like how you observed your LSD-induced hallucinations of Jesus Christ during a teen-rave?



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #5365342 - 03/04/06 06:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
You mean, just like how you observed your LSD-induced hallucinations of Jesus Christ during a teen-rave?



Why don't you ask spud about his gnosis experience? It didn't involve any drugs. BTW, I still see Christ frequently.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: Silversoul]
    #5365421 - 03/04/06 06:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Why don't you ask spud about his gnosis experience?  It didn't involve any drugs.  BTW, I still see Christ frequently.




As long as the experience doesn't lead to any conclusions or definitions of any aspect of reality beyond our personal realm, it doesn't really matter. To state that one has an intimate, inner relationship with an unexplainable experience as Christ is in the clear, as long as it is not being proposed to be a statement or observation of physical reality.

That is to say that the experience or belief cannot support any declarations of the nature of reality beyond that of one's personal, mental realm, and it is exactly this that occurs frequently. Not stating that you personally behave in such a manner, just that it happens a lot and this is just an observation on typical discussions that result. :nut:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5365461 - 03/04/06 06:48 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

That is to say that the experience or belief cannot support any declarations of the nature of reality beyond that of one's personal, mental realm, and it is exactly this that occurs frequently.



I see where you're going with this, and I concur. Unlike Skorpivo and other materialists, I do not take my personal experience of reality to be the yardstick of truth against which others' experiences are to be measured. Simply because I have had personal experiences of Christ, I do not dismiss others' experiences of the Buddha or the Tao, or Hindu deities. If there is one belief I have, it is that reality is far too vast and complex for anyone to claim a monopoly on it.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: Silversoul]
    #5365518 - 03/04/06 07:06 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
I see where you're going with this, and I concur.  Unlike Skorpivo and other materialists, I do not take my personal experience of reality to be the yardstick of truth against which others' experiences are to be measured.  Simply because I have had personal experiences of Christ, I do not dismiss others' experiences of the Buddha or the Tao, or Hindu deities.  If there is one belief I have, it is that reality is far too vast and complex for anyone to claim a monopoly on it.




Any meaning is communicated, to ourselves or others, through symbols. In terms of our personal experience, we have multiple states of mind and levels of consciousness that work together to provide for ourselves that experience, and it is thus such that abstract forms of symbolism would result when one is attempting to represent inner experiences and realizations. :wink:

The form with which we represent such is not important, and it can take any form (:grin:). Our symbols are our own, as well as to underscore the fact that they are only valid as our own symbols, not as symbols to represent reality beyond our own realm. Mutliple observers are to designate such together. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: Silversoul]
    #5365629 - 03/04/06 07:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I see where you're going with this, and I concur.

I, for one, also agree that as long as you recognize the difference between metaphysics and epistemology, between existence and consciousness, between the metaphysical and the man-made, then any espousement of such experiences are in the clear as well.


Unlike Skorpivo and other materialists,

How am I an actual materialist when I recognize the efficacy of consciousness?
If you care to actually know, I would be classified as a Realist. This means I accept the independent objectivity of the material world as well as acknowledging forms of nonmaterial existence. But, feel free to stick with the Materialism/Idealism polarities if you wish.


I do not take my personal experience of reality to be the yardstick of truth against which others' experiences are to be measured.

And your personal experiences are non-related to your aforementioned concurrence? If you agree that one should maintain the crucial differences outlined by Fireworks and I, then on what do you base such an agreement?


Simply because I have had personal experiences of Christ, I do not dismiss others' experiences of the Buddha or the Tao, or Hindu deities.

If you are talking about Christ Consciousness, Buddhahood, and Taoistic Receptivity - as in archetypal templates of higher cognitive functioning, then there I have no disagreement - quite the contrary. If such a concept is maintained to be pertinent to a method of epistemology, or of psychology, or of psycho-therapy, then I as well do not dismiss such experiences. The fact that such experiences have shown to be useful, evinces the correspondence with reality. Absent any relation or cohesive correspondence to reality, there can be no usefulness - as with any arbitrary concept. In other words, classification is crucial; differentiation is just as important as integration. One without the other only creates imbalance.


If there is one belief I have, it is that reality is far too vast and complex for anyone to claim a monopoly on it.

Translation: "I prefer to view the world as too complicated, with far too much vague unknowability, and hence I become threatened by any logical, coherent, non-contradictory system of philosophy, that facilitates utmost certainty and cuts through the bullshit in a world plagued with non-certainty and bullshit."




--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5365649 - 03/04/06 08:03 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I'm glad to see gnosis is making a come back. Or is it? Maybe people are simply talking about their experiences more with the advent of the internet. The friends of God aren't exactly spread accross the earth in solitude as they used to.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


Edited by St_Valentinus (03/04/06 08:12 PM)


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #5365756 - 03/04/06 08:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

If there is one belief I have, it is that reality is far too vast and complex for anyone to claim a monopoly on it.
---
Translation: "I prefer to view the world as too complicated, with far too much vague unknowability, and hence I become threatened by any logical, coherent, non-contradictory system of philosophy, that facilitates utmost certainty and cuts through the bullshit in a world plagued with non-certainty and bullshit."

No. I think he says that there are many valid ways, so claiming one way as THE way is quite an assumption.

BTW, could you please tell me what you think about 'concrete identity' in regards to 'archetypal templates' ? `What happens, if those will mix together ? Is the identity becoming a template ? Or does the templates identity melt with ones personal identity ?
Just curious.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5366849 - 03/05/06 09:43 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

No. I think he says that there are many valid ways, so claiming one way as THE way is quite an assumption.

So when Jesus said, "I am The Way.", he was making quite the assumption, eh? Those Taoists espousing that they are following The Great Way must be making The Great Assumption as well.


BTW, could you please tell me what you think about 'concrete identity' in regards to 'archetypal templates' ? `What happens, if those will mix together ? Is the identity becoming a template ? Or does the templates identity melt with ones personal identity ?

[Assuming you mean individual person by "concrete identity"]
Such archetypal templates are conceptual devices that communicate a specific state of being which is highly efficacious in many respects. One does not genuinely reach such states by merely following any cues or imitating any guidelines contained therein, but rather by insight. These templates show how one lives when they have attained such cognitive insights.
What facilitates such an insight? Some say it is suffering, which causes people to become cognizant of their detrimental actions and behavior. Some report that drugs such as hallucinogenics have provided them with such insights, as the drugs warp their mind and thus break their regular thinking patterns. Some learn the insights by reading books, learning from teachers/authors, and applying the learned lessons to their experiences.

However one gains such an insight, the common denominator remains the same: once stretched to a new insight, their minds never return to their former dimensions [the same goes for learning any new thing or idea].
In that respect, it is the individual that evolves - not by means of the template itself, but by the cognitive [thinking] evolution that gives rise to efficacious actions.

And in regards to evaluating insights:
"The litmus test is quite simple. Did you merely go "Wow!" or was your life changed in a positive way as a direct result of said experience?"
-The Great Swami



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #5367002 - 03/05/06 10:43 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

No. I think he says that there are many valid ways, so claiming one way as THE way is quite an assumption.
---
So when Jesus said, "I am The Way.", he was making quite the assumption, eh? Those Taoists espousing that they are following The Great Way must be making The Great Assumption as well.

Hehe, yes, why not ? He/they saw his/their way and saw that it was good, so he/they said what he/they said.
Interestingly Jesus statement appears only one time in the bible (John14,6): "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." Doubleinterestinly this part is in combination with the strange concept of "father" and the exclusivenrss of this way. Triple interestingly, most of the other quotes from the bible about "the way" are about "the way of god" or "the way of the lord"... and as everyone knows, "God moves in mysterious ways" :laugh:
I, personally think he never really dismissed any other way which would lead to the same goal (god/tao/*)...as far as I have understood. Why this sentence appears in Johns version, I have to dig out the greek version again :smile:

Thanks for the explanation of my question about the archetypal templates. I have to chew a bit on it :wink:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (03/05/06 11:08 AM)


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Offlinepioneering_south
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Re: Mystical Experience Survey [Re: Silversoul]
    #5367493 - 03/05/06 01:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

most of my mystical experiences relate to the third eye.. Especially cognitive dreams, and out of body experiences.
I won't even go into detail just yet, because of all the skeptics, and because I don't feel the need to justify my experiences to you guys.
It's very real( to me
:peace: :sun:


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