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gourmetgrower
I'ze the milkmanwhat knocked upyer maw

Registered: 01/29/06 
Posts: 170
Loc: The Old West
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: Pasteurization or Sterilization of bulk substrates. [Re: gourmetgrower]
#5326495 - 02/21/06 11:23 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hell, that'd probably be even more expensive, in the long run. Besides, my compost turner would BE my baby.
I'd nurture it, oil it, and tuck it into bed every night after ricking... lol.
-------------------- Howdy, boys! Let's get down to business. I got my colt and my schofield, and they's jist itchin to be broken in.
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Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: Pasteurization or Sterilization of bulk substrates. [Re: gourmetgrower]
#5326506 - 02/21/06 11:26 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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im looking for a big hopper. That be my baby. sawdust all z way.
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MrMaddHatter
Dementia praecox


Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 1,420
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Pasteurization or Sterilization of bulk substrates. [Re: agar]
#5326731 - 02/22/06 12:37 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
hyphae said: I've also understood that certain beneficial microbes help fight off nonbeneficial bacteria and molds, now I can't pull any info out of my ass right now as this has been from what I've read over many years. The point is with cubies the beneficials are not helping in the mushrooms life cycle as much as it is keeping the substrate healthier for digestion. My .02
Thats what I always believed.
I'm a pasteurization man all the way. Nothing wrong with sterilized bulk substrate, its just that its expensive to get a 55 gallon autoclave.
But a 55 gallon drum, and a propane burner..............is cheap.
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Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: Pasteurization or Sterilization of bulk substrates. [Re: MrMaddHatter]
#5326762 - 02/22/06 12:48 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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throw the lid back on and there you go a ghetto autoclave
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc:
Last seen: 11 years, 26 days
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Re: Pasteurization or Sterilization of bulk substrates. [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
#5326771 - 02/22/06 12:53 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
SHEIKofSHIITAKE said: throw the lid back on and there you go a ghetto autoclave
You need a few alcohol bottles on top too...
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Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: Pasteurization or Sterilization of bulk substrates. [Re: scatmanrav]
#5326787 - 02/22/06 12:59 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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hell yeah why not.
But seriously i do it like that! The trick is to let some air leak out of the seal. And use a lower heat. Cook till the water is just about gone. Barrels might want to bloat a bit but that happens after a lot of use over a few months.
____lid_______ ;;;;; gases 1 1 1 1 1 bags of 1 1 sub 1 1____________1 1__m_____m__1 bricks and water
Edited by SHEIKofSHIITAKE (02/22/06 01:07 AM)
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agar
old hand


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: Pasteurization or Sterilization of bulk substrates. [Re: gourmetgrower]
#5326801 - 02/22/06 01:04 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
gourmetgrower said: Ahh... I dream of the day when I can afford a self-propelled compost turner.
Self power a garden type pitch fork, if need be. (good exercise, if you like that sort of thing)
 For little rows, rototillers work fairly well.
But, hell.
Buy a ranch/farm. With cattle, horses, chickens, hay Fields, winter rye, corn & vegetable crops, and all else involved, you would be in composting heaven. 
--------------------
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MisterMyco
Myco-fanatic


Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 636
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: Pasteurization or Sterilization of bulk substrates. [Re: agar]
#5326882 - 02/22/06 01:35 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I run a few large compost heaps outside each summer and I just turn them by hand. I have about 8 spaces that are for compost heaps, when it's time to turn them, I just tear them down onto the space next to them and rebuild them. As stated before, I have one pile that I consider my "Starter" pile, that I mainly use for compost that is rich in the specific strain of actinomycetes that I purchased years back.
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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lardnar
Pu Pu Platter


Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 703
Loc: Behind what appears
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: Pasteurization or Sterilization of bulk substrates. [Re: MisterMyco]
#5327098 - 02/22/06 03:25 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
MisterMyco said: The people that wrote that document almost certainly aren't growing hallucinogenic mushrooms en masse. Most "real" mushroom growers I talk to don't like the guys that grow drug mushrooms.
What does the kind of mushroom grown have anything to do with the information on page 7 of the mentioned PDF file? I admire your quest in questioning things that are generally accepted without justification but it seems you are veering from that and instead trying to be difficult?
-------------------- If your soul is sence this life is lost ...
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Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: Pasteurization or Sterilization of bulk substrates. [Re: lardnar]
#5327862 - 02/22/06 12:26 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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for egos sake
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Snaggletooth
Stranger in a Strange Land


Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 6,109
Loc: blinks stupidly
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Pasteurization or Sterilization of bulk substrates. [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
#5327943 - 02/22/06 12:48 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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3000 miles is a good excuses 
Honestly most of this decision is over my head, but I have found this be a good thread.
Attack and defend with knowledge 
--------------------
Atheist Chat
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Pasteurization or Sterilization of bulk substrates. [Re: Snaggletooth]
#5328144 - 02/22/06 01:57 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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>>>>Attack and defend with knowledge
Exactly right! Knowledge, whether gained through reading, or experience can speak for itself. Obfuscating, lopsided comparisons, and narrow tangents don't cut it. The childish ego is obvious, and while quite bemusing, it doesn't help an argument, or create anything productive.
So I've got these two jars... filled with straw. Both were then filled with water. Lids with a hole in the middle, and rims were applied. One jar went into the PC and sat there at 15 psi for 1.5 hours. One jar with a meat thermometer inserted into the hole was placed in a pot of water and pasturized at 150 for 1.5 hours. The pasturized sub was drained immedeatley, the PCed sub was drained after cooling to 150. I thought of leaving the water in both jars, but the PCed straw water would likely contaminate faster simply due to more nutrients being leeched out. Once cooled to room temperature, the lids were removed and the jars were placed in my back room, several feet from one another, in the same area I store my bale of hay. Now I wait to see what happens.
Rahz
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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cappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
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Re: Pasteurization or Sterilization of bulk substrates. [Re: Rahz]
#5329441 - 02/22/06 08:44 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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What I want to know Agar, is if you specifically doned that shiny watch and ring(after a little polishing) just to dig your hand into a pile of poo and take a pic!
~Cappa.
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musher_420
Stranger

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 2,691
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Re: Pasteurization or Sterilization of bulk substrates. [Re: Rahz]
#5329644 - 02/22/06 09:31 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
So I've got these two jars... filled with straw. Both were then filled with water. Lids with a hole in the middle, and rims were applied. One jar went into the PC and sat there at 15 psi for 1.5 hours. One jar with a meat thermometer inserted into the hole was placed in a pot of water and pasteurized at 150 for 1.5 hours. The pasteurized sub was drained immediately, the PCed sub was drained after cooling to 150. I thought of leaving the water in both jars, but the PCed straw water would likely contaminate faster simply due to more nutrients being leeched out. Once cooled to room temperature, the lids were removed and the jars were placed in my back room, several feet from one another, in the same area I store my bale of hay. Now I wait to see what happens.
Rahz
This is what I was waiting for. But what happens if the sterilized jar contaminates faster and someone asks for proof as to why? 
I was considering using spawn bags but then thought to myself. " If I sterilize the substrate will the microbes be of any use nutritionally?" And then agar answered my question before I could ask. I trust agar as an excellent source here. In fact probably the best. But then...I'm not a REAL mushroom cultivator.
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Pasteurization or Sterilization of bulk substrates. [Re: musher_420]
#5329686 - 02/22/06 09:42 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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>>>>But what happens if the sterilized jar contaminates faster and someone asks for proof as to why?
Well, it's not really my problem but idealy I should have done several batches of jars and left them in pairs at diffrent locations. It will be intresting to see how it goes, but a microscope would be best for definitive results.
Rahz
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Pasteurization or Sterilization of bulk substrates. [Re: Rahz]
#5357021 - 03/02/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have some results 
2 jars of straw, one labeled 250, one labeled 150. As I posted earlier, the jar labeled 150 was drained after cooking, the jar labeled 250 was drained after reaching 150. At this point they were both left in the room where I keep my bale of straw with the lids off for 2 days. After this time the lids were placed on the jars so that a 1/2 inch sliver was still exposed to open air. I wanted to keep conditions as close as possible to an actual spawn run, while still giving contams an invitation.
It has been 9 days since the jars were prepared.... AND... the jar at 250 is showing signs of growth. There's some fuzz growing on the straw near the top of the jar. The jar pasteurized at 150 is still clean.
Now, this isn't a professional job. The one caveat here, a jar of straw that's PCed will be slightly more hydrated than a jar that's pasteurized. However, the pasteurized jar is plenty wet enough to support growth. Still this moisture variance can't be discounted.
So as it stands, I haven't proved much yet. But we'll see how long it takes for the pasteurized jar to contam. At the 21 day mark, will I have one clean jar and one jar riddled with growth? I'm all giddy with anticipation 
Rahz
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
Edited by Rahz (03/02/06 10:55 AM)
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Dem_Bones
Strangler



Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 307
Loc: Oklahoma
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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The Nitrogen Cycle [Re: Rahz]
#5357667 - 03/02/06 02:10 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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as far as what microbes do what, i cant name exact names but there are many types of bacteria that help mycelia grow in an array of ways one of the mane ones is waste management bacteria break down Metabolic waste from the mycelia witch are toxic in to non toxic and often beneficial chemicals
some examples of these toxins that mycelia make are , actone, many ketone's, all sorts of organic acids urea and Ammonia etc etc these waste inhibit growth and lower the Ph of the substrate.
good bacteria in the substrate manage and destroy this waste witch if nothing else will prolong the health of your substrate some of these Bactria are Bacteria of the genus Nitrosomonas and Bacteria of the genus Nitrobacter but there are many many more i have also read of types of Bactria that live off mycelia waste that release hormones that excerrate mycelia growth.
all these life forms have evolved and lived together for eons to assume thay arnt connected and symbiotic is much more ignorant than to assume they are. no voodoo needed
-------------------- At the bottom of this page is a search bar to search all the post and threads on the forum so you can see all the other 500 people who asked the same thing.use the top search too it has shroomery approved FAQs USE IT YOU CAN DO IT !
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Pasteurization or Sterilization of bulk substrates. [Re: Rahz]
#5394097 - 03/13/06 12:51 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The jar of straw pasturized at 150 has noticable contamination as of yesterday.
Final results:
Sterilized at 250: 9 days until signs of contamination Pasturized at 150: 19 days until signs of contamination
Although a better test would have included more jars, and possibly alternate locations, things went as I expected them to. It's a "good sign" that low temp pasturization does in fact leave benificial microbes alive.
Rahz
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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