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InvisibleRavus
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Torture
    #5324870 - 02/21/06 05:19 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

What would you say is the worst possible kind of torture you can inflict on a human being? Any suffering or pain, physical or mental or social or emotional, out of all the endless possibilities, what do you think is the worst the human mind can experience?


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Torture [Re: Ravus]
    #5325193 - 02/21/06 06:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

self inflicted grief is the worst kind.... hands down.

only yourself can cause the most pain and suffering to yourself.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Torture [Re: Ravus]
    #5325213 - 02/21/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I think the worst torture would be watching a loved one get tortured.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Torture [Re: Silversoul]
    #5325234 - 02/21/06 06:35 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

but it would be worse if it was your fault they were in that situation.


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OfflineChauntecleer
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Re: Torture [Re: Ravus]
    #5325245 - 02/21/06 06:37 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
What would you say is the worst possible kind of torture you can inflict on a human being? Any suffering or pain, physical or mental or social or emotional, out of all the endless possibilities, what do you think is the worst the human mind can experience?




I believe you just answered your own question. Pain is relative, so I very much doubt there is one universal worst torture. It makes room for creativity, though. :smile:

Personally I believe that mental and emotional pain overrides the physical. Physical pain (in my experience, at least) is transient and therefore not to be feared.

The two years or so I spent depersonalised have to rank up there, though.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Torture [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5325255 - 02/21/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Indeed, there was a Nietzsche quote about how anybody can suffer, including slaves and martyrs, but to watch someone suffer because of your actions requires much more tolerance.

Though I'm not sure if I'd buy that. Which would hurt me more, seeing my entire family burned alive, or being burned alive myself? Undoubtedly, both would be painful, but I think unless your nerve endings are actually on fire, you're not in as much pain as you could be in.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Torture [Re: Ravus]
    #5325430 - 02/21/06 07:08 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Paralysis. Not merely of the physical kind, mind you - rather, of the mind.

Imagine, if you will, a person who is fully conscious enough to experience happiness just as much as sorrow, elation just as much as regret, joy just as much as fear, love just as much as hate.
He is aware enough to realize his accomplishments and his mistakes; independent enough to carry out his own life on his own terms and face the same risks that we all do by virtue of such independence. Yet, he is paralyzed by self-doubt, which is an immobilization caused the by the restrictive weight of self-defeating junk, which has been solidified by the careless accumulation of irrationalities, irrealism and arbitrariness abound in various forms today.

His immobilization restricts him from achieving ambitious goals of prosperity, happiness and security, and instead drowns in a sea of laziness, implicit fear of his very own greatness and reckless self-indulgent in the name of evasion - evasions of reality, however diaphanous or ephemeral. A fugitive of reason, he even submits to the gradually concretized notion that such a path he takes can be attributed with a noble quality - noble because he dare not step on others, dare not indulge in a twisted view of selfishness, and dare not shine in utmost brilliance, in a world of such darkness - oh forbid that he should ever disturb the darkness and shed light upon the world, for why should he deserve such greatness, he asks himself. Implicit in such a line of thinking is that someone else has more of a right to be so bold, so daring, so content with themselves that they actually live for themselves and carry out their ambitions, live out their dreams of opulence and romance.

Yet, somewhere deep in the back of his mind - like a splinter in his mind, there remains a shred of rationale that be buried under immense mountains of repression, but never cease to exist - for as long as he possesses a faculty of reason, as long as he lives in a world that remains sparsely populated by the self-realized and unimmobilized adults, he remains subject to his own torturous reason, a victim of his own intelligence, a fugitive of his own greatness. He must constantly live with sharp pangs of realizations of the prison he has created for himself, built with bars of irrational fear that immobilize him from productive achievement and self-cherisment. Only to deepen such implicit sadness as the years pass him by, he retreats within himself, regressing into senility and cynicalness.

As he reflects upon his years in old age, he gains but a pearl of insight, with only a value worthy to the young surrounded amongst him, yet with only a painful reminder to himself, of the greater life that he could've had but never achieved, all because he never let go of the very solidified weight of self-doubt, and committed not only intellectual suicide, but suicide of passion - passion for the love of life and all it has to offer, and the intellectual freedom to capture such fruits of life.



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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Torture [Re: Ravus]
    #5325777 - 02/21/06 08:17 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

One idea that seems like it would be extremely painful would be to force someone to stay outside in the nude when it is extremely cold, but bring them inside before they freeze to death and drop them in boiling hot water. I remember hearing that the Nazis employed this technique during the Holocaust, but I'm not sure whether that's true or not.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Torture [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5325807 - 02/21/06 08:23 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

one of the torture techniques which was purported to have been used by the US was nearly drowning someone, as well as giving the impression that they were going to be drowned.

If anyone here has ever been close to drowning you know that it is probably the worst feeling possible. I would rather burn and freeze to death long before I would ever wish to drown.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Torture [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5325822 - 02/21/06 08:26 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I'd rather be repeatedly drowned or freezed than burned alive, personally. Being burned alive has to one of the shittiest possible deaths imaginable.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Torture [Re: Ravus]
    #5325871 - 02/21/06 08:35 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

id rather be burned alive than killed slowly. but this topic is silly, there is no "worst". there are literally thousands of things that would all be extremely unpleasant with virtually unlimited potential variations. how can i choose a worst?


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Torture [Re: Deviate]
    #5325911 - 02/21/06 08:42 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Some people seem to have a worst, based on their phobias and fears. For some people, the mere thought of being buried alive can inspire a panic attack, in which case I'd consider that one of their worst.

The tortures are themselves all external objects, but it is the subject which decides. My only curiousity is how the subject decides which path would be the worst to take.

Kind of like that story where the killer makes the mother choose between her two children.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Torture [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #5326089 - 02/21/06 09:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

:ooo:


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Torture [Re: Ravus]
    #5326121 - 02/21/06 09:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
I'd rather be repeatedly drowned or freezed than burned alive, personally. Being burned alive has to one of the shittiest possible deaths imaginable.




no way..... I think being burned to death would be such an immense rush of extreme pain that you would become detached from it..... it would stop feeling like pain, and then you would suffocate on smoke/lack of oxygen.

Quang duc lit himself on fire.... no one can drown themselves.


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OfflineTheQueen
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Re: Torture [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5326263 - 02/21/06 10:09 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I think the most painful kinds of experiences are the ones that are prolonged and intentionally designed to make one suffer. like Chinese water torture, dropping drips on the same spot of skin for hours and hours. The Iron Maiden of Nuremberg is of this same effect of long lasting suffering; deadly hours of being penetrated.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Torture [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5326291 - 02/21/06 10:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
Quang duc lit himself on fire.... no one can drown themselves.




Tie a few bricks to your feet and test this theory.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Torture [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5326571 - 02/21/06 11:47 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

what i meant was that you cant drown yourself of your own volition.... like holding your head underwater. No matter what, you will come up for air.
I bet if you tied bricks to your feet and jumped into a lake you would be trying to get those bricks off after a while.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Torture [Re: Ravus]
    #5326949 - 02/22/06 01:52 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Some people seem to have a worst, based on their phobias and fears. For some people, the mere thought of being buried alive can inspire a panic attack, in which case I'd consider that one of their worst.

The tortures are themselves all external objects, but it is the subject which decides. My only curiousity is how the subject decides which path would be the worst to take.

Kind of like that story where the killer makes the mother choose between her two children.




well that makes more sense. what i was pointing out was the fact there could be so many variations, for instance if you say drowning is your worst thats such quick death. what about being totured by other methods for a weak and then being drowned? you could just go on and on with all the potential horrors.

by the way, its nice to see you posting again.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Torture [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5327101 - 02/22/06 03:28 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

> what i meant was that you cant drown yourself of your own volition....

You can swim yourself to exhaustion at which point you can no longer keep your head above water... been there, done that, in only three feet of water... couldn't even stand up.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Torture [Re: Ravus]
    #5327170 - 02/22/06 05:08 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

As you may know I very occasionally experiment with harmless but nontheless quite excruciating pain of extreme intensity.

When pain approaches loss of conciousness you will get massive endorphins release starting from minute 5, becoming clearly noticable at minute 10 and making the pain somewhat dismissable by minute 15. I've read this occurs this in severe physical torture and I know from my own experience that it happens - every time. I think this is the joy people derive from extreme S&M. For me it brings no joy whatsoever but the experience of extreme physical pain in the knowledge that it is biologically safe is an interesting realm of experiences to explore.

wiccan seeker - suffering great agony so you don't have to :grin:

The thing I found is that it's of utmost importance that your psychological enviroment is favorable. You must have some degree of assurance that the situation is controlled as for safety.

All in all I'd say that intense pain is just a reinforcer of the actual torture which is mental.

Quote:

Any suffering or pain, physical or mental or social or emotional, out of all the endless possibilities, what do you think is the worst the human mind can experience?




Suffering, mental, social, emotional are all "mental suffering" whereas pain is "physical suffering". As I found out physical suffering has its limits with a blush of euphoria overtaking the agony pretty soon. So the main course has to be mental.

I think the worst suffering imaginable is to be slowly tortured by a sociopath, basically being pruned like a bonsai over the course of weeks, rather than being made to confess or produce a specific response which would end it.
Being creatively and very slowly tortured for recreational purposes by an evil person, that would be the worst torture of all. Closest thing to this would be Auschwitz physician Josef Mengele, who for instance on one occasion injected the vaginas of 100 women with disinfectant to see if the ensuing festering wounds would effectively sterilize them. The women were fed meat from the Krematorium.

So yes, in response of the other thread: I believe Evil exists, and it resides in the worst cases of sociopathy.


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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Re: Torture [Re: Asante]
    #5327236 - 02/22/06 06:27 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Tell them about the peppers you put in your ass.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Torture [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #5327276 - 02/22/06 07:10 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

TheHateCamel said:
.
Tell them about the peppers you put in your ass.




Rectal administration of capsaicinoids to induce massive Substance P release - plugging ground habanero peppers.
Aren't we mature adults?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Torture [Re: Asante]
    #5327289 - 02/22/06 07:18 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

> Aren't we mature adults?

Unfortunately, adulthood and maturity do not go hand in hand.


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Invisiblegiz
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Re: Torture [Re: Seuss]
    #5327366 - 02/22/06 08:28 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

in medieval days torture was a science, the catholic church has had quite some horrible ideas how to torture people in their surch for people guilty in heresy. torture such as:

Wooden wedges were forced underneath the toenails to help urge a confession from the criminal.

scissor type instrument was used to slice the tongue up afte the victims mouth was forced open.

copper boot was placed around the foot of the victim and filled to the brim with molten lead causing first degree burns.

water torture, the victims nostrils were pinched shut and fluid was poured down his throat. Intstead of water, sometimes vinegar, urine, or urine and a combination of diarrhea were forced dwon the throat.

The heretic fork was a two sided prong that went between your chin and your chest. You could not talk with instrument in place and it was very painful.

a chair of spikes. The victim would sit in the chair and weights would be applied onto the victim forcing his body into the metal spikes.


well , there is worse torture than this, the nazis like allready mentioned was cruel as well. i just like older history


Edited by giz (02/22/06 08:36 AM)


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Torture [Re: Ravus]
    #5327559 - 02/22/06 10:38 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

This thread and the fact, that in france some fanatic moslems tortured a jew three weeks and afterwards throwing him dying on the streets tortures me enough. All still because of the damned comic. A comic seems to be torturing some. Let the torterours be tortured.

Perhaps ask Dr. Mengele about that !

edit:Oops, somethings allready have been said, sorry.
edit2: The way is, to find the limit where the people are dying or not. Then play with that limit. Simple but effective. Not to forget, that opens the way for practiced mind-controlling. So let stay those parts of the body intact, that you will need him to fullfill your tasks afterwards.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (02/22/06 11:11 AM)


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Torture [Re: Ravus]
    #5328454 - 02/22/06 03:50 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I read that physical torture is the best way to get someone to tell you something. Enough pain and anyone will crack and say whatever the hell you want them to. That's what torture is all about.

However it seems to me that the best way to drive someone insane, and make them totally submissive, is actually to isolate them. Prisons figured this out centuries ago. If you put a human being in total isolation, in total darkness and just let them sit there with no human contact, the mind just breaks. It terrifies me to think about it.


--------------------
:hst:
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but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Torture [Re: Asante]
    #5328671 - 02/22/06 05:09 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I agree with your view of physical pain. Most of the thread has been about physical suffering, but in terms of reaching the height of human desperation, I believe physical suffering wears off very quickly, due to the body's own defenses against massive pain. After all, pain is only a warning signal to you that something is wrong, but in the wild, the warning signal needs to be controlled by endorphins so that you not only acknowledge the damage, but also escape.

So mental torture could be much worse over an extended period of time, since the defenses for that are not nearly as concrete as the release of a flood of endorphins into your neurons. Seeing your family and loved ones all get killed and tortured in front of your eyes, one by one, may be much worse than physical pain, because you can make it as long as you want without many protections against the suffering the recepient will experience.


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OfflineChauntecleer
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Re: Torture [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5329009 - 02/22/06 06:56 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
One idea that seems like it would be extremely painful would be to force someone to stay outside in the nude when it is extremely cold, but bring them inside before they freeze to death and drop them in boiling hot water. I remember hearing that the Nazis employed this technique during the Holocaust, but I'm not sure whether that's true or not.




I know there have been a lot of stories about the infamous experiements of SS doctor Josef Mengele. He indulged in a whole array of grotesque experiments which had absolutely no scientific value whatsoever. His favourite subject for experiments were twins.

He literally boiled Jews to see how long they could survive for, as well as freezing and quite possibly combining the two. I read that he sewed two twins together to see how long they could survive for without any anaesthetic.

But yeah, if you're looking for Nazi 'science' (read: excrutiating, sadistic torture) then Mengele is your man.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Torture [Re: Chauntecleer]
    #5329138 - 02/22/06 07:46 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Chauntecleer said:
Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
One idea that seems like it would be extremely painful would be to force someone to stay outside in the nude when it is extremely cold, but bring them inside before they freeze to death and drop them in boiling hot water.  I remember hearing that the Nazis employed this technique during the Holocaust, but I'm not sure whether that's true or not.




I know there have been a lot of stories about the infamous experiements of SS doctor Josef Mengele. He indulged in a whole array of grotesque experiments which had absolutely no scientific value whatsoever. His favourite subject for experiments were twins.

He literally boiled Jews to see how long they could survive for, as well as freezing and quite possibly combining the two. I read that he sewed two twins together to see how long they could survive for without any anaesthetic.

But yeah, if you're looking for Nazi 'science' (read: excrutiating, sadistic torture) then Mengele is your man.




:strokebeard:


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Torture [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #5329735 - 02/22/06 09:56 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
Paralysis. Not merely of the physical kind, mind you - rather, of the mind.

Imagine, if you will, a person who is fully conscious enough to experience happiness just as much as sorrow, elation just as much as regret, joy just as much as fear, love just as much as hate.
He is aware enough to realize his accomplishments and his mistakes; independent enough to carry out his own life on his own terms and face the same risks that we all do by virtue of such independence. Yet, he is paralyzed by self-doubt, which is an immobilization caused the by the restrictive weight of self-defeating junk, which has been solidified by the careless accumulation of irrationalities, irrealism and arbitrariness abound in various forms today.

His immobilization restricts him from achieving ambitious goals of prosperity, happiness and security, and instead drowns in a sea of laziness, implicit fear of his very own greatness and reckless self-indulgent in the name of evasion - evasions of reality, however diaphanous or ephemeral. A fugitive of reason, he even submits to the gradually concretized notion that such a path he takes can be attributed with a noble quality - noble because he dare not step on others, dare not indulge in a twisted view of selfishness, and dare not shine in utmost brilliance, in a world of such darkness - oh forbid that he should ever disturb the darkness and shed light upon the world, for why should he deserve such greatness, he asks himself. Implicit in such a line of thinking is that someone else has more of a right to be so bold, so daring, so content with themselves that they actually live for themselves and carry out their ambitions, live out their dreams of opulence and romance.

Yet, somewhere deep in the back of his mind - like a splinter in his mind, there remains a shred of rationale that be buried under immense mountains of repression, but never cease to exist - for as long as he possesses a faculty of reason, as long as he lives in a world that remains sparsely populated by the self-realized and unimmobilized adults, he remains subject to his own torturous reason, a victim of his own intelligence, a fugitive of his own greatness. He must constantly live with sharp pangs of realizations of the prison he has created for himself, built with bars of irrational fear that immobilize him from productive achievement and self-cherisment. Only to deepen such implicit sadness as the years pass him by, he retreats within himself, regressing into senility and cynicalness.

As he reflects upon his years in old age, he gains but a pearl of insight, with only a value worthy to the young surrounded amongst him, yet with only a painful reminder to himself, of the greater life that he could've had but never achieved, all because he never let go of the very solidified weight of self-doubt, and committed not only intellectual suicide, but suicide of passion - passion for the love of life and all it has to offer, and the intellectual freedom to capture such fruits of life.



In addition to anyone else, that's me your're describing. What led you to be thinking of that and write it?


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Torture [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5330957 - 02/23/06 09:20 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

In addition to anyone else, that's me your're describing. What led you to be thinking of that and write it?

I noticed everyone was talking about the kind of torture, infliction or pain that usually results in soon death, and in contrast, I was thinking of a much more deeper suffering that is far more widespread and with farther reaching effects. Essentially, the immobilization of mankind; the torturous imprisonment of the soul, so to speak. It all flowed out rather spontaneously..




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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Torture [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5334777 - 02/24/06 12:27 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
If you put a human being in total isolation, in total darkness and just let them sit there with no human contact, the mind just breaks. 




An extremely disciplined, focused mind wouldn't. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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Like being here
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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Torture [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5334881 - 02/24/06 01:25 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

yah like andy dufrain


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Torture [Re: fresh313]
    #5335028 - 02/24/06 02:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fresh313 said:
yah like andy dufrain




I've looked into this and it appears to be a character in a movie who was innocent of charges but spent time in solitary confinement regardless.

Elaborate further on your point.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

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Invisiblebudsicle
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Re: Torture [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5335084 - 02/24/06 02:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

having to argue with all the would-be gurus of this forum


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Torture [Re: budsicle]
    #5336323 - 02/24/06 10:27 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

lol bud
Andy Dufrain is tortured for his little trick. On his release from solitary confinement, Andy explains to his inmate friends how he endured. "I had Mr. Mozart to keep me company. It is in here (pointing to his head and heart). That's the beauty of music? so you don't forget that there are places in the world not made out of stone, that there's something inside that they can't get to, that they can't touch. It is yours."

"get busy livin or get busy dyin"


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Torture [Re: fresh313]
    #5338468 - 02/25/06 04:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fresh313 said:
yah like andy dufrain




Andy Dufrain was a good character in a movie about the human spirit, but nothing more.

Maybe there are some people who have powerful enough minds that no torture or isolation could get to them, but I think they are a rare exception. Lock someone up in a whole and throw away the key and they will eventually lose it.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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