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Holydiver
Stranger



Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 5,156
Loc: The midnight sea
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: MisterMyco]
#5325333 - 02/21/06 06:51 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Please keep it civil, no name calling.
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MisterMyco
Myco-fanatic


Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 636
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: Holydiver]
#5325343 - 02/21/06 06:53 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I thought that Corky was his name, no offense intended
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: MisterMyco]
#5325408 - 02/21/06 07:05 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
MisterMyco said: OK Corky, one more time...
Actinomycetes ARE useful in compost making because they break down complex sugars into less complex sugars that the enzymes that secondary decomposers use (such as, say, cubensis mycelia) can digest them. I've said that all along. Actinomycetes complete their life cycle as the compost is nearing completion. All of the higher-chain sugars that they DO eat have been broken down and they run out of food. Their is no evidence, other than some people on an anonymous webboard, to show that actinomycetes destroy contaminants or induce fruiting. Absolutely none. The logic of "Everyone else says it, it must be true" is so ignorant that the fact that you'd use it astounds me. If you want to argue with Paul Stamets, go right ahead brother. I notice how you didn't even bother to include that in your post, I wonders why
You sounded a bit like "Corky" when you contradicted yourself above, not me Seinfeld. I didn't include the Staments comment in my post because I was still responding to your prior post when you posted it, so stop wondering.
I think you caught me on the "destroying contaminants" aspect of fire fang, but as far as telling people to sterilize all of their horse poo, this setting them up for failure unless they are really clean with their procedures or use enough spawn to not give contams a chance. After reading up a little on composting, it seems that firefang is more of a "sign" that the manure is optimal for mushroom growth.
Like I've previously stated, I've used poo that wasn't sterilized or pasturized that turned out fine. Sterilizing any substrate leaves it open for all kinds of contaminants and if you truly wanted to sterilize your substrate, why not just boil it? Why keep it at a steady 180F? It seems like a high temp pasturization to me, but I'm no professor.
Anyway, I don't want this to turn into an all day affair. I respect your opinions and agree with some, but not all of them and appreciate this stimulating conversation, even though you have a very "prick-ish" way about you
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Quick WBS Prep
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MisterMyco
Myco-fanatic


Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 636
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: FooMan]
#5325434 - 02/21/06 07:09 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I don't see how sterilizing would set them up fopr failure unless something in the substrate (something living) was preventing contamination. As I don't belive that any bacteria do this selectively enough to be worried about, i don't see that as being true
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: MisterMyco]
#5325469 - 02/21/06 07:14 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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You'll have to forgive me for being ten minutes behind with my posts. I don't type too fast. I didn't know this was "kiddie land".
I view the advanced forum, but I don't consider myself "advanced" and the topics discussed there are mainly new/different ways to cultivate or increase potency, things that don't really interest me. I'm just a grower and I don't need to speak techno-babble to feel like I'm more intelligent then others. You seem like a smart guy that has really studied up on his mycology, Congrats, I'll never be as cool as you or get as much pussy..... Damn!
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MisterMyco
Myco-fanatic


Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 636
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: FooMan]
#5325489 - 02/21/06 07:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Admitting it is the first step.
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: MisterMyco]
#5325505 - 02/21/06 07:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
MisterMyco said: Admitting it is the first step.
I'm attending the 12 step program! 
Take Care, Dick!
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Quick WBS Prep
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MisterMyco
Myco-fanatic


Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 636
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: FooMan]
#5325509 - 02/21/06 07:23 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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No prob. Maybe you could find it in your heart to stop giving bad advice out to neophyte cultivators, so that they don't keep repeating the same erroneus information that you do. KTHX
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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Snaggletooth
Stranger in a Strange Land


Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 6,109
Loc: blinks stupidly
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: MisterMyco]
#5325548 - 02/21/06 07:32 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Atheist Chat
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Wronguy
Registered: 03/05/05
Posts: 4,450
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: Snaggletooth]
#5325571 - 02/21/06 07:35 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Good information here. Now if we can just get past the pissing contest we can move forward.
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Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: MisterMyco]
#5325604 - 02/21/06 07:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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You dont see it as a problem because you dont SEE whats going on in there.
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Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: MisterMyco]
#5325653 - 02/21/06 07:50 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
MisterMyco said: http://www.springerlink.com/(y2mweif5tvj...nt&backto=issue,4,7;journal,121,524;linkingpublicationresults,1:102966,1 Mushroom worker's lung: Serologic reactions to thermophilic actinomycetes present in the air of compost tunnels
Wow! A pathogenic disease that I could get seom these great actinomycetes! I'll take two, one for each lung!
I believe that actinomycetes, once destroyed, provide a useful food to the mycelia and I believe that the action of actinomycetes in the composting stage can help to break down more complex sugars into sugars more easily dissolvable by the mycelial enzymes of p. cubensis. Since noone has ever shown a picture of fire-fang running through a substrate as quick as mycelia, and fire-fang is a bacteria rather than a fungus and would reproduce MUCH quicker, I'm going to have to say it's mushroom myth.
k maybe in certain cirmumstances. But what actual net weight of these dead organisms are there actualy going to be? Basing that the dead organisms are needed to support a good flush is silly. Fire fang isnt running or competing. It just does its thing and is present homoganisly threw out all the substrate.
Now the autolysis of organisms in the soil over the winter may help certain fungi but i wouldnt think that has any relation to a subtropic fungi.
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Non-composted poo, straw, etc, won't even have firefang colonies. If the aim of pasturization is sterilization, why do so many long time growers recommend low temp pasturizations over high temp? It seems like 180 would only marginally affect the nutritional value compared to 140, which is prefered by some. I'm willing to learn, but focusing on firefang isn't getting me there.
Rahz
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: MisterMyco]
#5325988 - 02/21/06 08:57 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
MisterMyco said: Maybe you could find it in your heart to stop giving bad advice out to neophyte cultivators, so that they don't keep repeating the same erroneus information that you do. KTHX
Are you STILL talking?
What bad advice? I don't see how telling someone to pasturize rather then sterilize their substrate is bad advice. I keep trying to end this thread, as it has run it's course, but you want to keep it going with that "gotta get the last word in because I couldn't when I was getting bullied in high school" attitude. Suit yourself, I'm done with it.
To the original poster: Go ahead and sterilize your h/poo and post results. My one failure with manure was when I PC'd it, but you WILL succeed!. Someone on an anonymous forum told me so!
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Quick WBS Prep
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MisterMyco
Myco-fanatic


Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 636
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: FooMan]
#5325993 - 02/21/06 08:58 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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FoomanShroom > Paul Stamets, agar, hypea, HolyDiver and Me
It's a fact!
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
Edited by MisterMyco (02/21/06 08:59 PM)
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Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: Rahz]
#5326044 - 02/21/06 09:09 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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aim of pasteurization is in killing of MOST organisms. Mainly endospores of other molds and fungi. Sterilization is the annihilation of all living things in the media including the bacteria and other single celled organisms plus the molds and fungi spores.
I never needed to sterilize a substrate to the point of pure sterility.
ps i cant beleave you two are still going at it. kinda childish. Why not realise you wont make anyone change their minds at tthis time and let it be.
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: MisterMyco]
#5326046 - 02/21/06 09:09 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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>>>>FoomanShroom > Paul Stamets, agar, hypea, HolyDiver and Me
Your comparison is uneven. The original topic/question was not refering to compost. Besides that, agar stated that sterilizing will kill benificial microbes.
What's the point in debating about a product almost none of us use? Let's talk about non-composted poo.
Rahz
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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>>>>i cant beleave you two are still going at it. kinda childish.
ehh? I'm pursuing clarity on the issue, nothing childish about that.
Rahz
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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MisterMyco
Myco-fanatic


Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 636
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: Rahz]
#5326059 - 02/21/06 09:12 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Noone has EVER stated what magical beneficial microbes/bacteria exist in the substrate that benefit mycelia. By this, I mean in the substrate that you are using, post pastuerization/sterilization. Noone has EVER said ONE organism that survives that long and helps fungii, other than firefang which Paul Stamets himself said ends it's life cycle as the compost is near completion. Again, foomanshrom is smarter than Paul Stamets, just look in Amazon at all of FooManShrooms books...
-------------------- "I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural." Isaac Asimov
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Why not sterilize poo? [Re: MisterMyco]
#5326077 - 02/21/06 09:16 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
MisterMyco said: FoomanShroom > Paul Stamets, agar, hypea, HolyDiver and Me
It's a fact!
No one you mentioned recommends sterilization, merely that it can work. There you go again. Let it go! Get laid!
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Quick WBS Prep
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