Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
OfflineDeadmaker
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 5,471
Last seen: 2 months, 5 days
Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea
    #5324691 - 02/21/06 04:34 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060221/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_religious_tea


WASHINGTON - A small branch of a South American religious sect may use hallucinogenic tea as part of a ritual intended to connect with God, a unanimous Supreme Court ruled Tuesday.
ADVERTISEMENT

In its first religious freedom decision under Chief Justice John Roberts, the court said the government cannot hinder religious practices without proof of a "compelling" need to do so.

"This is a very important decision for minority religious freedom in this country," said lawyer John Boyd, who represents about 130 U.S. members of O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal who live in New Mexico, California and Colorado.

The tea, which contains an illegal drug known as DMT, is considered sacred to members of the sect, which has a blend of Christian beliefs and South American traditions. Members believe they can understand God only by drinking the tea, which is consumed twice a month at four-hour ceremonies.

A trial judge found the government's evidence that the drug is harmful was equal in weight to information provided by the sect that said its method of use in tea is not.

Roberts, in writing the opinion for the court, said the government had failed to prove that federal drug laws should outweigh the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which Congress passed in 1993 to prohibit burdening a person's exercise of religion.

The Bush administration had argued that the drug in the tea not only violates a federal narcotics law but a treaty in which the United States promised to block the importation of drugs including dimethyltryptamine, also known as DMT.

Religious groups of various faiths, along with civil liberties organizations, filed friend-of-the-court briefs supporting the sect. "This is just one step in the right direction in the fight for religious liberty," said Jared Leland, legal counsel for The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty in Washington.

New Justice
Samuel Alito did not take part in the case, which was argued last fall before Justice
Sandra Day O'Connor's retirement. Alito was on the bench for the first time on Tuesday.

The justices sent the case back to a federal appeals court, which could consider more evidence.

Roberts, writing his second opinion since joining the court, said that religious freedom cases can be difficult "but Congress has determined that courts should strike sensible balances."

The case is Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao Do Vegetal, 04-1084.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: Deadmaker]
    #5324709 - 02/21/06 04:38 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

A trial judge found the government's evidence that the drug is harmful was equal in weight to information provided by the sect that said its method of use in tea is not.





that is what we need more of.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGamera

Registered: 06/16/05
Posts: 69
Loc: Nonlocal
Last seen: 7 months, 25 days
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5324738 - 02/21/06 04:45 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
Quote:

A trial judge found the government's evidence that the drug is harmful was equal in weight to information provided by the sect that said its method of use in tea is not.





that is what we need more of.




This is a critically important point, because the psychedelics were not scheduled based on science but on hysteria. The fact that the UDV was allowed to put on evidence as to the actual potential health risks, as opposed to taking the Contolled Substances Act as prima facia evidence that these are the Devil's own chemicals, means that at least where a bona fide religious use is at issue, we can prove to the courts that psychedelics are not as dangerous as the public has been led to believe.


--------------------
Money is human happiness in the abstract; he, then, who is no longer capable of enjoying human happiness in the concrete devotes himself utterly to money.

Arthur Schopenhauer


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblegdman
badger, badger,badger...
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 16,286
Loc: Dancing In the Streets
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: Gamera]
    #5324774 - 02/21/06 04:53 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

This is very good news.


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecreamrocks
here they come
Male

Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 694
Loc: the old midwest
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: Gamera]
    #5324779 - 02/21/06 04:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

word of mouth gets around this planet, too damn fast.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevinsue
Grand Old Fart
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 17,953
Loc: The Garden State(NJ) Flag
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: Deadmaker]
    #5324791 - 02/21/06 04:57 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

a unanimous Supreme Court ruled Tuesday.


  :congrats: :congrats:  What's next ?? :mushroom2:  :sanpedro:  :bigweed: ???  Let's hope so...


--------------------

"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ...
  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: vinsue]
    #5324802 - 02/21/06 05:00 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Most drugs have to be grandfathered in to a religion. Seems to me that this is the most important point.
To find a religion which used the drug in religious practices prior to the prohibition of them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGamera

Registered: 06/16/05
Posts: 69
Loc: Nonlocal
Last seen: 7 months, 25 days
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: gdman]
    #5324869 - 02/21/06 05:19 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I think the next test case ought to be the individual who can make a bona fide claim to being a shaman. If a person could show a legitimate religious use of psychedelics in the context of the ancient historically recognized tradition of shamanism, and also present evidence that the drugs in question presented minimal health risks, it seems to me the government would have a tough time arguing that at least some use could not be allowed (as long as they could keep track of the drugs in question and they were being diverted, for example).


--------------------
Money is human happiness in the abstract; he, then, who is no longer capable of enjoying human happiness in the concrete devotes himself utterly to money.

Arthur Schopenhauer


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetreestars
looking atthings
Registered: 07/08/05
Posts: 56
Loc: running through the fores...
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: Gamera]
    #5324985 - 02/21/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

w00t for human rights being upheld :handth:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: Gamera]
    #5325087 - 02/21/06 06:05 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

or show that the effects are no more physiologically harmful than communion wine....


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHippieChick
Chicks can do it too!
Female User Gallery

Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,958
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 3 years, 13 days
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5325285 - 02/21/06 06:45 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Rasta's really do feel the same about ganja . It is part of their religon . Praise Jah .

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony
:heart: Hippie Chick  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Peace,Love and Happiness
:heart: HC :mushroom2:

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............

I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848

My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058


Edited by HippieChick (02/21/06 09:34 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: HippieChick]
    #5325356 - 02/21/06 06:56 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

HippieChick said:
Rasta's really do feel the same about ganja . It is part of their religon . Praise Ra .



*Jah


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNoviseer
Percussion isFree
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 3,994
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: Deadmaker]
    #5325417 - 02/21/06 07:07 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Allright!  This makes my evening :smile:  Good news is so rare these days.


--------------------
_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
_________________________________________________________________


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: Noviseer]
    #5325437 - 02/21/06 07:10 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

sweet.

But are these churches discriminatory based upon heritage? I mean, those with direct lineages to such traditions deserve to be able to use their sacraments, but EVERYONE deserves to use them too, and I don't see why you can't let white people or non -ethnic people join your church if they have a legitimate interest in partaking in your ceremonies and beliefs.

The best environment for using a psychedelic is that kind of environment, these kinds of ceremonies are something that human-kind world wide is sorely missing out on right now.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTheCow
Stranger

Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 4,790
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: leery11]
    #5325573 - 02/21/06 07:35 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

What did they use to make the tea out of? Frankly Ive forgotten what plants contain DMT.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMisterMyco
Myco-fanatic
Male

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 636
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: TheCow]
    #5325579 - 02/21/06 07:36 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

b. caapi and p. viridis usually, i belive.


--------------------
"I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural."
Isaac Asimov


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBanez
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 15,181
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: MisterMyco]
    #5325594 - 02/21/06 07:39 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

great news!


--------------------
Banez' PF Tek For Beginners


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKonnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
Loc: LA Suburbs
Last seen: 8 months, 26 days
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: TheCow]
    #5326557 - 02/21/06 11:43 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

TheCow said:
What did they use to make the tea out of? Frankly Ive forgotten what plants contain DMT.




They were probably consuming ayahuasca brews.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerobmac9090
typical tadpole

Registered: 08/09/05
Posts: 81
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: Konnrade]
    #5326626 - 02/22/06 12:07 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I think I'm gonna start the Sacred Mushroom Religion. The churches will be in the middle of the forest, the hymms will be Pink Floyd songs, and if you're being a jerk you get kicked out for a couple months.

p.s. It's free to join, but you have to bring some shrooms twice a year.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKonnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
Loc: LA Suburbs
Last seen: 8 months, 26 days
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: robmac9090]
    #5326676 - 02/22/06 12:18 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Enjoy your arrest and jail sentence if you do.

You can only argue religious grounds for use of a scheduled substance in a religion if the religion was pre-existing and was grandfathered into your religion prior to laws which scheduled the substance.

Otherwise the government sees you as just a drug user trying to create a legal excuse for using drugs, which (to be fair) would be exactly what you were.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerobmac9090
typical tadpole

Registered: 08/09/05
Posts: 81
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: Konnrade]
    #5326694 - 02/22/06 12:22 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I was only joking... :cryariver:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleeligal
Noobie

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7,021
Loc: California
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: Deadmaker]
    #5326708 - 02/22/06 12:28 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

arent there also native american tribes which are allowed to take certain psychedelics for religious practices?


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: gdman]
    #5326711 - 02/22/06 12:30 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

What about cultural uses of substances. Like when the boys get out of work we all meet up in a garage discussing todays events and talking politics over a bowl. Why cant cultural uses be aknowledged like spirituality. Afterall cultural uses are more solid then that of realigion i suppose.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerobmac9090
typical tadpole

Registered: 08/09/05
Posts: 81
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #5326728 - 02/22/06 12:36 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I'm trying to find that out right now. The Aztec's supposedly used mushrooms for ceremony, but there doesn't seem to be much information as to the details of their religion. I do know that they made human sacrifices though...so that kinda stinks.

I hope this ruling sparks off a little bit of a controversy throughout...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerobmac9090
typical tadpole

Registered: 08/09/05
Posts: 81
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: robmac9090]
    #5326746 - 02/22/06 12:42 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/...pdf/04-1084.pdf

The link is the actual court opinion if anyone wants to read.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKonnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
Loc: LA Suburbs
Last seen: 8 months, 26 days
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: eligal]
    #5326764 - 02/22/06 12:50 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

eligal said:
arent there also native american tribes which are allowed to take certain psychedelics for religious practices?




The native american church was allowed by the supreme court to use peyote as a religious sacrament in their ceremonies. I've spoken to a native american who uses san pedro however, which would imply that mescaline as a whole tends to be allowed , even if not implicitly stated as legal.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleeligal
Noobie

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7,021
Loc: California
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: Konnrade]
    #5326911 - 02/22/06 01:42 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

nice


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMisterMyco
Myco-fanatic
Male

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 636
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: Konnrade]
    #5326946 - 02/22/06 01:51 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

What about members of the religion that eat teonanactyl?


--------------------
"I have never, in all my life, not for one moment, been tempted toward religion of any kind. The fact is that I feel no spiritual void. I have my philosophy of life, which does not include any aspect of the supernatural."
Isaac Asimov


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKonnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
Loc: LA Suburbs
Last seen: 8 months, 26 days
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: MisterMyco]
    #5326987 - 02/22/06 02:07 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMyco said:
What about members of the religion that eat teonanactyl?




I've never heard of teonanactyl :confused:


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleKoala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: Konnrade]
    #5327462 - 02/22/06 09:36 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Mushrooms. It means mushrooms.

"You can only argue religious grounds for use of a scheduled substance in a religion if the religion was pre-existing and was grandfathered into your religion prior to laws which scheduled the substance."

This brings to mind: How is the church of inners light or whatever's DPT quest going?


--------------------
You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemediman0078
Stilllooking.....

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 1,379
Loc: Here, there, EVERYWHERE
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #5327702 - 02/22/06 11:38 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Is the UDV only for South Americans, or of their direct lineage?? Like the Native American Church?

If so, that's racist and it sucks. :sad:

I'd go and honestly listen to what they have to say, if not. The UDV in Santa Fe isn't that far from here.


--------------------
........someday I'll find it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Court Allows Church's Hallucinogenic Tea [Re: mediman0078]
    #5329866 - 02/22/06 10:27 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, the downside is that you have to be of a certain ethnic descent. Back in the 70s the Supreme Court ruled that the Peyote Way Church was illegal narcotics use while the Native American Church is legit because of race, even though they both were very similar. The ruling denied being racist, but it appears clear that the right of exemption they make for indian nations is based on race.

Here is what is good: Now researchers have another legitimate psychedelic community to observe. If another study showed that DMT, like peyote, in religous use is harmless then gradually science would be forced to recognize that psychedelics in general are not dangerous narcotics with a high potential for abuse. Perhaps that evidence would prompt an evaluation into the dubious and unsound origin of these drug laws.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Student cuts off penis and tongue after drinking hallucinogenic tea.
( 1 2 all )
Thin White Duke 3,150 26 12/31/04 02:38 AM
by schmutzen
* religion, how to start one?
( 1 2 all )
fearfect 3,137 21 03/01/05 03:56 PM
by blissedout
* Seperation of Church and State NikolaiMcGreggor 1,107 10 03/29/04 08:39 PM
by TheShroomHermit
* religions
( 1 2 all )
fearfect 3,019 29 01/27/05 12:10 PM
by California
* Why church sucks
( 1 2 all )
flowstone 3,645 24 02/09/05 02:34 AM
by psilibros05
* no religion shrooming4fun 1,292 12 12/20/02 07:31 AM
by PjS
* why cant we make our own religion?? willmafingerdo 1,411 17 12/13/05 11:31 AM
by bit_slice
* Adiago Teas Redstorm 850 8 06/13/05 11:11 AM
by OneMoreRobot3021

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
4,316 topic views. 3 members, 50 guests and 40 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.037 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 14 queries.