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OfflineCerebralFlower
whats left?

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 1,326
Loc: only the truth is left
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
There is no evil
    #5320999 - 02/20/06 08:11 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

There is no evil, else there would be nothing. Only in misunderstading something, one finds evil.
There is life, therefore there is no evil
If there is only life, where is the evil?
IF there were evil, there would be nothing
There is something, therefore good is overpowering bad....
but....
but what?
Evil is just a notion created from our fears and when we do not eliminate, or explore our fears there is an ...
fear = evil
in lack of exploring our fears evil is created

:heart: :shocked: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heartpump: :happyheart: :peace: :shineon:

:heart: :heart::heart: :heart::heart: :heart::heart: :heart::heart: :heart::heart: :heart::heart: :heart::heart: :heart::heart: :heart::heart: :heart:


--------------------
God says dance with your heart
And shake free of you desire

Where theres a will theres always a way
When you get confused listen to the music play



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: There is no evil [Re: CerebralFlower]
    #5321406 - 02/20/06 09:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)


The SS beltbuckle reads: "God is With Us." It was special issue, and those who manned the extermination camps wore one. Would you wash your face with soap made of human fat that was skimmed from ditches running from the crematoria? Would you buy purses or lampshades made from human skin, or sleep on mattresses stuffed with hair from exterminated human beings? Yes? You yourself are evil. No?, why not - allergies? Or does EVIL have something to do with your choice?


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: There is no evil [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5321499 - 02/20/06 10:06 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

there is evil, perhaps it could be said that all evils results from ignorance but there is evil.


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: There is no evil [Re: CerebralFlower]
    #5321514 - 02/20/06 10:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

For the sake of this discussion I think it would be very useful to define the words "evil", "good", and "bad".


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Offlineblaze2
The Witness
Male

Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
Re: There is no evil [Re: dblaney]
    #5321762 - 02/20/06 11:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Good=balance
Evil=inbalance

There is balance to everything, a natural state, a true state. Evil is something that destroys the balance. Most parts of nature are incapable of evil. Death is not evil, it is part of the balance. Evil is in choice, evil is free will. For something with free will(some animals have this trait too, believe it or not) Good and evil are both choices. Any good choice preserves the balance, or corrects an evil, and any evil choice destroys the balance. that is why it is near impossible to find one at fault from either a good or evil perspective. Yin and Yang. peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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Offlineblaze2
The Witness
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Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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Re: There is no evil [Re: blaze2]
    #5321786 - 02/20/06 11:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

oh yea and evil is nesecarry because without it there is no stimulous for change. Evil drives Good, it is what makes our would dynamic instead of static. A world completely in balance would need no more change, in fact change by its nature would HAVE to put it back of balance. So either you want an unchanging static perfect world(sounds dull to me), or you want a world like ours full of ever changing forms of life, even with the evil it brings.

after all how would one know how much love meant if one had never felt hate, and the hate of others? Evil shows us why Good is Good. You cant appreciate something without knowing its opposite. peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblespock
journeyman
Registered: 08/27/03
Posts: 1,165
Re: There is no evil [Re: CerebralFlower]
    #5321875 - 02/20/06 11:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

there is no evil?

man, you need to get out more. it's everywhere. thank god love is too.


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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: There is no evil [Re: blaze2]
    #5322117 - 02/21/06 12:17 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blaze2 said:
oh yea and evil is nesecarry because without it there is no stimulous for change. Evil drives Good, it is what makes our would dynamic instead of static. A world completely in balance would need no more change, in fact change by its nature would HAVE to put it back of balance. So either you want an unchanging static perfect world(sounds dull to me), or you want a world like ours full of ever changing forms of life, even with the evil it brings.

after all how would one know how much love meant if one had never felt hate, and the hate of others? Evil shows us why Good is Good. You cant appreciate something without knowing its opposite. peace

blaze2





this doesn't logically follow. there is no reason the world couldn't continually grow and change within the confines of balance. discord is not necessary for growth.


Edited by Deviate (02/21/06 12:17 AM)


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OfflineCerebralFlower
whats left?

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 1,326
Loc: only the truth is left
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: There is no evil [Re: spock]
    #5322221 - 02/21/06 12:37 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

hey spock ive been thru some rough shit recetnly, dont doubt that ive had alot of rough times, but really if there was evil there would be nothing what i meant is people only do evil things, because of misunderstandings

my point wasnt that clear i guess. sorry

our existance is sacred. We only exist because of good(+). If there were bad (-)it would balance out the good and there would be nothing. but there is SOMETHING(+)
therefore the good is more powerful than the bad

honestly, i dont know what im talking about
its just my ideas, they may mean nothing to you



--------------------
God says dance with your heart
And shake free of you desire

Where theres a will theres always a way
When you get confused listen to the music play



Edited by CerebralFlower (02/21/06 02:41 AM)


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OfflineCerebralFlower
whats left?

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 1,326
Loc: only the truth is left
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: There is no evil [Re: blaze2]
    #5322261 - 02/21/06 12:42 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blaze2 said:
oh yea and evil is nesecarry because without it there is no stimulous for change. Evil drives Good, it is what makes our would dynamic instead of static. A world completely in balance would need no more change, in fact change by its nature would HAVE to put it back of balance. So either you want an unchanging static perfect world(sounds dull to me), or you want a world like ours full of ever changing forms of life, even with the evil it brings.

after all how would one know how much love meant if one had never felt hate, and the hate of others? Evil shows us why Good is Good. You cant appreciate something without knowing its opposite. peace

blaze2



I disagree about one thing. The part about love
LOVE is something before hate, you can appreciate love more once you have seen how cruel and HATEful someone can be.


--------------------
God says dance with your heart
And shake free of you desire

Where theres a will theres always a way
When you get confused listen to the music play



Edited by CerebralFlower (02/21/06 02:35 AM)


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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: There is no evil [Re: CerebralFlower]
    #5322380 - 02/21/06 01:00 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CerebralFlower said:
Quote:

blaze2 said:
oh yea and evil is nesecarry because without it there is no stimulous for change. Evil drives Good, it is what makes our would dynamic instead of static. A world completely in balance would need no more change, in fact change by its nature would HAVE to put it back of balance. So either you want an unchanging static perfect world(sounds dull to me), or you want a world like ours full of ever changing forms of life, even with the evil it brings.

after all how would one know how much love meant if one had never felt hate, and the hate of others? Evil shows us why Good is Good. You cant appreciate something without knowing its opposite. peace

blaze2




though i dont like to admit this. it is true,
and well spoken





i get what you're saying, you're saying that evil isn't the polar opposite of God (or whatever you wanna call it) because if it was God would cancel himself out.


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: There is no evil [Re: blaze2]
    #5322554 - 02/21/06 01:48 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blaze2 said:

after all how would one know how much love meant if one had never felt hate, and the hate of others? Evil shows us why Good is Good. You cant appreciate something without knowing its opposite. peace

blaze2



Do not accept evil as necessary. It is a world we were born into, there is much imbalance, but it does not have to a permanent reality. I knew love before I understood hate, I'd imagine the same holds true for most children.

Love is connection, intimacy, and honesty with another human being, if you throw it into a dualistic nature with hate love becomes meaningless.

It's easy to say that being an American is great when you look at a starving Ethiopian, but is being an American really great in the first place? There is always room for improvement, greater balance, greater peace, if love can only exist with hate, love is worthless if you ask me.

I mean think about it. The summer can be intolerably hot for the feeble, likewise so can the winter. It is not to say that the winter is good and the summer is bad...... when you are in summer you want winter and in winter you want summer.

Balance.

Balance is neither duality and neither extreme. Pleasure is simply pleasure and love is simply love, and they are not contingent upon some sort of arbitrarily created reciprocals.

and at any rate I cannot really see love and hate as polar opposites, because hate is much stronger and easier a concept to embrace and requirse very little work.

I would say that humans have to learn to meditate the negative with positive though, it's not important to be a BLIND optimist, but to say that you can't know hate without love is rather absurd.

There are plenty of families that love each other completely, are completely devoid of hate, and yet the love is still simply that.... love. Children do not hate unless they are conditioned to, however it is very easy for them to love.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (02/21/06 01:50 AM)


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Invisibleeligal
Noobie

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7,021
Loc: California
Re: There is no evil [Re: CerebralFlower]
    #5322634 - 02/21/06 02:14 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

there is but a spectrum of colors


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: There is no evil [Re: CerebralFlower]
    #5322737 - 02/21/06 03:25 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CerebralFlower said:
There is no evil, else there would be nothing. Only in misunderstading something, one finds evil.
There is life, therefore there is no evil
If there is only life, where is the evil?
IF there were evil, there would be nothing
There is something, therefore good is overpowering bad....
but....
but what?
Evil is just a notion created from our fears and when we do not eliminate, or explore our fears there is an ...
fear = evil
in lack of exploring our fears evil is created

:heart: :shocked: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heartpump: :happyheart: :peace: :shineon:

:heart: :heart::heart: :heart::heart: :heart::heart: :heart::heart: :heart::heart: :heart::heart: :heart::heart: :heart::heart: :heart::heart: :heart:




I recomend seeing this movie, 'K-PAX' ..

  :wink: :thumbup:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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OfflineCerebralFlower
whats left?

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 1,326
Loc: only the truth is left
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: There is no evil [Re: Gomp]
    #5322746 - 02/21/06 03:32 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i watched KPAX a long time ago Gomp, ill check it out thanks



--------------------
God says dance with your heart
And shake free of you desire

Where theres a will theres always a way
When you get confused listen to the music play



Edited by CerebralFlower (02/21/06 03:32 AM)


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
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Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: There is no evil [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5322908 - 02/21/06 05:36 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I got the impression that this person might have came down from a trip in which they were very, very high. When people come down from an ecstatic state there's a good chance they'll start wrestling with their thoughts, attempting to pin down a grandiose explanation of reality that they hope will become their new source of ecstasy. I think it's an attempt to cling to the high, as if though they'll never be high again, that fuels such existential mania of vague and abstract symbolic logic. With more experience hopefully one becomes more aware of the ebbs and flows of ecstasy, in which one would realize that such preoccupations prolong the typical ebb indefinately.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineCerebralFlower
whats left?

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 1,326
Loc: only the truth is left
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: There is no evil [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #5323878 - 02/21/06 02:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i tend to disagree about me trying to cling to something, i was just trying to offer my insights


--------------------
God says dance with your heart
And shake free of you desire

Where theres a will theres always a way
When you get confused listen to the music play



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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

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Re: There is no evil [Re: blaze2]
    #5323890 - 02/21/06 02:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blaze2 said:
Good=balance
Evil=inbalance

There is balance to everything, a natural state, a true state.  Evil is something that destroys the balance.




Nothing can imbalance the Universe, it is the transitory state of all aspects of the universe that constantly maintains that balance.

Evil and Good do not exist beyond our human conceptions.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: There is no evil [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5323951 - 02/21/06 02:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Very well articulated :thumbup:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: There is no evil [Re: dblaney]
    #5324067 - 02/21/06 03:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

(Opps..intended to original poster)
Hmmm..I am very sorry to inform you that evil indeed exists. It is an outcome of pure intellectual and abstract consideration from conscious intelligence towards the material way of existence and persistence.
It is about the control of that view and its implantation into every human to make them dependend on money and the power within.
This is mal-use of power and money, but it is how the system works and that is in the most cases straight ancient evil.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineCerebralFlower
whats left?

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 1,326
Loc: only the truth is left
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: There is no evil [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5324187 - 02/21/06 04:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

evil is ignorance, evil is STUPIDITY


--------------------
God says dance with your heart
And shake free of you desire

Where theres a will theres always a way
When you get confused listen to the music play



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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Posts: 7,991
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Re: There is no evil [Re: CerebralFlower]
    #5324188 - 02/21/06 04:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Evil exists or doesn't exist, depending on how you want to define it.

Of course, if you define evil as absolute, then that definition itself will let us realize that evil indeed does not exist, since evil is a label we place on an object, rather than an outcome of the existence of the subject itself. If the subject saw what they were doing as part of the absolute definition of evil, then they wouldn't do it, yet the fact that they don't see themselves as part of this definition lets us know it's not absolute to begin with.

So you're right, there is no evil.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineIrdamage
Autobot

Registered: 11/19/05
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Re: There is no evil [Re: Ravus]
    #5324681 - 02/21/06 06:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Is evil, evil intent? or evil choices? Further more: can anyone give a pure defintion of evil. without resorting to "The oposite of good".


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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Re: There is no evil [Re: Irdamage]
    #5324792 - 02/21/06 06:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

evil is no more than an opinion.

evil can only come from belief in a supreme moral code from an omnipresent perspective.
I believe this perspective, which is needed for society to exist (atleast in the early stages) is a great part of why religions came about, or atleast the concept of God.

I think anyone can step outside of themselves enough to realize that they do not have the penultimate morality and while they may think something to be an evil act, doesnt make it so.
Once the concept of God was born it took the weight of judgement directly from us, which has not really prevent people from judging, but atleast they then could do it in "faith".... like "Dont get mad at me that homosexuality is evil, God said it! Im just passing on the word".

Look at it this way.... can a dog do an evil act? I dont believe so.... even if a wild dog, not owned or controlled by someone attacks another person, i dont think the dog would ever act out of pure malicious intent. other factors like sensing a threat to its survival is enough to do such a thing... and is it evil to struggle to survive?

Thats basically what evil comes down to.... a malicious extertion of energy designed only to cause destruction, pain, or death with no hint of reason or cause.
Look at your serial killers, many of them were not even evil, because they BELIEVED that it was something they needed to do, there was a reason for their actions.
Take hitler for example, do you think he really just wanted to maliciously exterminate the jews? I think it was due mainly to his paranoia regarding jews taking over the world.

Man makes almost all of his decisions based on survival, and then other decisions based on what they consider to be pure benevolence.
Many people describe things or events as evil based solely on the present time of that event, and never look at the after effects that one event caused.
Not that i am defending hitler, anne frankly i couldnt care, but what if Hitler actually exterminated a disease like AIDs which never had a chance to spread and destroy a much larger portion of the world?


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Posts: 7,991
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Re: There is no evil [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5324862 - 02/21/06 07:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

There is always a reason for our actions according to many psychologists, even if we don't know what they are, as the true reasons may originate beyond our level of conscious thought. This isn't too much of a leap, since mostly everything seems to originate beyond conscious thought. All those things that just come to you suddenly, they certainly don't come out of nowhere, and a serial killer "randomly" killing victims "for no reason" is exactly the same.

But even if you caused destruction for no reason that doesn't have anything to do with your survival but only a desire to see ultimate pain inflicted on people, is that evil? I certainly wouldn't say so, but what about going by your criteria, psilocyberin?


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Re: There is no evil [Re: Ravus]
    #5325043 - 02/21/06 07:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I cant think of anything which would be destruction without reason, consciously or subconsciously.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: There is no evil [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #5325088 - 02/21/06 08:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think you might be right, but that same kind of distortion is like those stories of say, Indra the Lightning God of ancient Hinduism who goes about believing that he is God, and there is no other, until Brahman in the form of a humble yogi dispels his ignorance. There is a Gnostic story of the demiurge which says the same thing, and there is this old 'Space 1999' TV show where humans encounter this white light life form that is deadly to look upon (like Zeus and Semele, or YHVH and Moses) who glows on a hill and says "I AM I" (again like YHVH) and who doesn't understand that it is only one being among others.

One attains to a possible Heaven state, which I respect, but the myth of the fall of Lucifer says that even in the highest Heavens, evil can exist. The Kabbalistic sphere 'Geburah' - 'Severity' - the opposite of 'Gedulah' - Mercy -is an aspect of GOD - the isolated aspect that the Nazis were about. Severity without Mercy is Auschwitz. It is like Ram Dass once said: 'Shakti [Power] without Consciousness is just Hitler.' As soon as one comes down to Earth, they must become grounded immediately (I know, some people like us would rather remain footloose, fancy-free puer aeterni, like winged-sandaled Mercury). Without immediate grounding, a space cadet is very like to 'crash' to Earth like Icarus. Daedalus, his father stayed aloft because he recognized the middle way between the sun and the sea (superconsciousness and unconsciousness). Icarus attained too high a state and perished in watery depths. So, when one comes off dangerously inflated, yet back on Earth, I find it necessary to make him/aware of the 'down-side' before the down-side makes him/her aware of It!

A certain amount of peace and love comes down to Earth with theses states, but it seems to depend on the 'karmic' reserves of the tripper. When the good karma wears off, one does not want to find that one has come down in 'the wro-o-ng neighborhood!'  :wink:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: There is no evil [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5327001 - 02/22/06 04:13 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

So, when one comes off dangerously inflated, yet back on Earth, I find it necessary to make him/aware of the 'down-side' before the down-side makes him/her aware of It!




Like a Vajra Guru sucker punch <G>


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: There is no evil [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #5327537 - 02/22/06 12:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

"[...]It (evil) is an outcome of pure intellectual and abstract consideration from conscious intelligence towards the material way of existence and persistence.[...]"


add to whover thinks evil does not exist:

>>It is THAT evil, that makes you believe it does not exist<<


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OfflineImNtCrzy
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Re: There is no evil [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5327759 - 02/22/06 02:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

There is evil in this world. Much much evil. So say that genocide, prejudice, murder et cetera is part of the balance does not make sense to me.

To me the world stands before me as I see it a product of my perception. For me doing evil to myself is anything that keeps me from attaining a higher existence. I think some people fail to realize that we are in this place together, the world is a product of our collective perception. When I doubt myself and my abilities to create good (something that elevates me) that to me is evil. When I choose to do something I know in my heart is wrong for me that is evil, but also when I fear others and act out that is evil, because they are part of us. I guess for me evil is knowingly choosing to betray ourselves.


--------------------
everything is the button


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: There is no evil [Re: ImNtCrzy]
    #5328063 - 02/22/06 03:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, why there have to die so many people of starvation (every minute) on the one side of the planet while on the other side the food is burned and maniplulated ! To keep the prices up ?!
Holy, that is really EVIL ! For one simple example.
There are so many.
Why is this questioned, again?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: There is no evil [Re: CerebralFlower]
    #5328163 - 02/22/06 04:04 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Also, the one who fires pistols, in the lung or stomac or other internals, is extremly evil by default. Have you seen someone shot by that ?
That even could fit into the torture-thread :frown:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: There is no evil [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5328184 - 02/22/06 04:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

or what about homosexuals.... those people are evil!

(see how this statement can be scoffed at by some people? it is just a certain threshold of morality, some peoples dividing line between good and evil may be higher or lower than others, but it is only an abstract line that you have drawn, and has no bearing on reality)


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: There is no evil [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5328215 - 02/22/06 04:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Ah, so you're saying that there is no absolute morality, and it's all relative? Like Hitler who thought it would be very beneficial and good to eliminate Jews and others whom he saw as being weak.

I agree in part. I think it depends on the frame of reference. However, the Buddha spoke of Right Action, and I do think that they are a good set of guidelines. (I hope I'm not contradicting myself here, I'm feverish)


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: There is no evil [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5328219 - 02/22/06 04:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Homosexuals don't (physically) hurt anyone (else).


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: There is no evil [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5328277 - 02/22/06 04:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

so only physical violence is evil?

Quote:

Like Hitler who thought it would be very beneficial and good to eliminate Jews and others whom he saw as being weak.





just like you think it was not beneficial or good? I dont see where you can claim that your morality is superior to Hitlers. How do you measure that? relative to what? your own morality?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: There is no evil [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #5328286 - 02/22/06 04:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

No, like a compassionate slap-in-the-face from an experienced roshi.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: There is no evil [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5328302 - 02/22/06 04:52 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I am not saying that evil and good are balanced on opposite ends of a see saw. That is the common mistake I think in people pondering the balance. Instead I look at the moment of perfect balance, the Good, anything that sets it off balance is an evil. For Good breeds only good, further balance, while Evil breeds more evil.

Fireworks your too much,
"Nothing can imbalance the Universe, it is the transitory state of all aspects of the universe that constantly maintains that balance"

Is the universe perfect? nope, so its not in balance. which you agree with when you say it needs to maintain its balance. Then theres teh part where you say nothing can unbalance it, hmmm which is it man?
I'll tell you, There is no pure good, no abosolute morality which has been said in truth by a few other people in this thread. So there can be no perfect balance. Perfect balance is not needed however, look at a see saw if I flicked one end it might wobble a little before returning to its normal position. Think of every evil choice as another little flick, constantlly upsetting the balance so that it can never return to level.

There is a balance in us, in our communities, in our world, and all the balances in the all worlds add up to the great big one of our universe.
We humans for the most part cant hurt anythign but ourselves, and our world(and that only recently), we havent made the impact of a fly landing on the universal balance. that is why we tend to feel evil is just "perspective". To us nothing really changes, life goes on as they say.

Good and Evil are both choices. The balance is seperate, think of good as the steadying hand absorbing vibrations, and Evil as the violent fist pounding away. Neither is harder to make than the other. That is false, who ever said that to hate is easier than to love. If it is true for you then maybe you should take a look at yourself.

Animals are capable of evil, If you think otherwise please explain the elephants that trample their life long trainers for instance. Or the dog that bites his master. You might say they caught a whiff of some danger to their lives or something, yea whatever, animals think man, they may not speak, but they think, they remember(most of the great animals at least), they learn. Creatures of instinct they might be, but that does not preclude them from making choices. Even we feel our animal instincts and we choose in life dont we? Its a proven observation, why make a seperate one for all the animals execpt us. For we are just an animal.


Morality doesnt matter, thats the problem, morality isnt good and evil. Good and Evil are choices, morality is human judgement. Not something I put much faith in. peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: There is no evil [Re: blaze2]
    #5328334 - 02/22/06 05:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

how is an elephant trampling his life long trainer an evil act?

its like calling the sharks evil for attacking their feeder.


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: There is no evil [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5328375 - 02/22/06 05:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

no its not because the sharks never have the connection of love and safety that a trainer and elephant might. A 20 year bond has an effect man. You assume like most foolish humans that we alone are capable of many acts in thinking. simply because animals dont have language. I'm not saying all animals are equal either man. but most of the greater animals are closer to us than to the insect, or fish IMO.


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: There is no evil [Re: blaze2]
    #5328480 - 02/22/06 06:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, but how is that still evil? you think the animal just wanted to maliciously attack the trainer to see what he tasted like?

I think as long as there is a reason, it cannot be evil.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: There is no evil [Re: blaze2]
    #5328511 - 02/22/06 06:16 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blaze2 said:
Is the universe perfect? nope, so its not in balance.





Yeah, the universe is perfect.

But there is evil in the world of humans.
Is it a coincidence that only humans cause evil? Hitler killing millions of jews was evil. If an asteroid struck the earth it would not be evil.
Just because there is no universal absolute morality, and evil is relative and contextual doesn't mean evil isn't real. Evil is one of those things that humans as social animals define. It helps us maintain our order. We have a sense for evil, it allows us to both perceive evil and therefore attack it to return our own system to balance.

So I guess in a sense I agree with you. Although I differentiate between the human world and the universe itself. I think ultimately the concept of evil is an evolutionary tool for humans. That doesn't make it any less real, is just makes it not universal.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: There is no evil [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5328677 - 02/22/06 07:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The only definition of evil that I can think of would be something which is counter productive or hindering your own survival.

Sure, we can say that in terms defined by society there is an evil.... yeah from that persective, it would exist, but in a REAL sense (universally) there is no such thing.


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: There is no evil [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5328760 - 02/22/06 07:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

evil is a concept invented by humans


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: There is no evil [Re: eligal]
    #5330623 - 02/23/06 07:14 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Evil is an attitude that gets you laid.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: There is no evil [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5331411 - 02/23/06 02:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

A human, intentionally doing something, always is evil for some others...but as long that it does not physically hurt people, it is not sort of 'prime evil' :smile:
yes, evil is a conscious concept, but it mirrors (in) reality (existence) and as soon as it physically hurts others, it gets real. As long that it hurts psychically, it is in some kind of state of discussion or ignorance and everyone can get along with it. As soon as it gets real, there is something to do and to be done, so it get's real real :wink:
So what was first. The concept or the fact ?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (02/23/06 02:29 PM)


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: There is no evil [Re: Lakefingers]
    #5331566 - 02/23/06 02:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Lakefingers said:
Evil is an attitude that gets you laid.




i wish that were true...
im the evilest muth around and havent gotten laid in ages...
:foreheadslap:


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



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OfflineDeviate
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Re: There is no evil [Re: eligal]
    #5333893 - 02/24/06 03:31 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

there is evil, the concept of evil has proven itself a useful for me. i don't really desire to argue about it or try to explain it but i just want to make it clear that at least from a certain standpoint evil DOES exist.


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: There is no evil [Re: eligal]
    #5333910 - 02/24/06 03:44 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

They say that people that don't get much when they're young are real swingers when they retire. It's all good :smile:


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: There is no evil [Re: Lakefingers]
    #5333925 - 02/24/06 04:01 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

goats dont really turn me on
dolphins tho...


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: There is no evil [Re: fresh313]
    #5333966 - 02/24/06 04:43 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I guess Pan is just a good old paraphiliac without any paraphilia.


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