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pipeDream
Moooo

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 67
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan
#5320930 - 02/20/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Im sure this has been talked about before but i couldnt find anything. I have been brainstorming on ways to not use a coolmist, and I was thinking can you just put the ultrasonic on the timer and use a fan, or even an airpurifier, (i figured a box type fan would be fine since by the time your pans are ready for fruiting you dont have to worry about contamination), if you suspended a fan in the bottom of your martha pointing up pulling air from the bottom up through holes in the top. I could always use some kind of filter, maybe a hepa filter at the bottom where the air gets pulled in through, and then just use an ultrasonic. Seems like you would get more than plenty FAE, the humidity would stay just fine, and since the fan is blowing from the bottom none of the shrooms get hit directly with the gusts or the wind coming from the fan. What do you guys think, i was thinking of drawing up a little design.
-------------------- What is wrong with our culture is that it offers us an inaccurate conception of the self. It depicts the personal self as existing in competition with and in opposition to nature. We fail to realise that if we destroy our environment, we are destroying what is in fact our larger self. (Freya Matthew)
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Blek
Stranger


Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 983
Loc: The universe
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: pipeDream]
#5320950 - 02/20/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Why don't you want to use a coolmist? No $? A fan seems like it might be a little excessive with air flow. Seems like it would be a struggle to keep the humidity right with the amount of mist a ultrasonic puts out + the amount of airflow a fan creates. Maybe I'm just confused with your setup idea though.
I use a coolmist and an aquarium air pump for FAE in my martha. I don't put any water in my coolmist. For humidity, I use an ultrasonic on a timer. It comes on for 15 minutes once an hour.
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tokey666
Let's Build It Instead


Registered: 08/05/05
Posts: 666
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: Blek]
#5320986 - 02/20/06 06:09 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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A coolmist is not as quiet as a small fan and a ultrasonic humidifier, that's all there is to it. And plus, it won't have to run constantly, thus cutting down on stealth.
If there was ANY way to build a martha, pipeDrea, that's the way I'd do it.
However, I would put the fan in the TOP of the martha so it will pull air from the inside and push it up. (check out the link in my sig) And just put your ultrasonic on the bottom of the martha so you wont worry about hoses.
As far as timers go, I am thinking you are going to need a timer for both the fan and the humidifier. First, set up your martha. Light a smoke bomb inside and then turn your fan on. Count the amount of time it takes for the fan to suck out all of the smoke, then add a couple more minutes. There you have one FAE in the martha.
Now set your humidity timer around that one to keep humidity up during the FAE's.
While it will be CHEAPER to hook up a cool mist, the loudness of them keeps me away.
Good luck!
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Jaeger
Dreamer
Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 960
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan *DELETED* [Re: tokey666]
#5320996 - 02/20/06 06:10 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by JaegerReason for deletion: .
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pipeDream
Moooo

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 67
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: Jaeger]
#5321161 - 02/20/06 06:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ya, the fan I would use would be fairly small, and the aquarium pump I own (100gal) would also be too small for sufficient air flow. I was trying to come up with another idea b/c I hear of many people burning up their cool mist. I understand that the big problem is just not taping off the intake/outake properly but they still burn up, so i want to try to cut the cool mist out of the picture all together.
-------------------- What is wrong with our culture is that it offers us an inaccurate conception of the self. It depicts the personal self as existing in competition with and in opposition to nature. We fail to realise that if we destroy our environment, we are destroying what is in fact our larger self. (Freya Matthew)
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Jaeger
Dreamer
Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 960
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan *DELETED* [Re: pipeDream]
#5321196 - 02/20/06 07:05 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by JaegerReason for deletion: .
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Edgekrusher
God
Registered: 10/10/05
Posts: 674
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: Jaeger]
#5321374 - 02/20/06 07:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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yeah, Vicks coolmist is most deffinitely quiet. (IMO). Same with Duracraft.
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MrMaddHatter
Dementia praecox


Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 1,420
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: pipeDream]
#5321435 - 02/20/06 07:56 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Cool mist and a ultrasonic is definitely the way to go.
Not to say you couldn't do it with a small fan and a ultrasonic, its just easier with the cool mist/ultrasonic combo.
And cool mists aren't that loud.
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tokey666
Let's Build It Instead


Registered: 08/05/05
Posts: 666
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: MrMaddHatter]
#5322047 - 02/20/06 10:03 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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OOOp, I think I heard the magic word!...."THAT"
Cool mists arn't THAT loud?
Anything LOUD to me is anything that makes NOISE in a room where there is no noise, thus drawing your attention to it. There is nothing discrete about that. But then again, I'm a paranoid fuck. But I also don't want people going, "whats that noise?" just in case.
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pipeDream
Moooo

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 67
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: tokey666]
#5323037 - 02/21/06 06:01 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I dont really have a problem with how loud it is, I never even mentioned that in my original post so I dont know where that is coming from, but that wasnt really the topic. I dont care how loud it is, its just the cool mists have some problems, such as burning up, and i just introduced a terranium that I thought could save some hassle of using a cool mist, and asked for some input.
-------------------- What is wrong with our culture is that it offers us an inaccurate conception of the self. It depicts the personal self as existing in competition with and in opposition to nature. We fail to realise that if we destroy our environment, we are destroying what is in fact our larger self. (Freya Matthew)
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fresh313
journeyman


Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: pipeDream]
#5323047 - 02/21/06 06:05 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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yah coolmists are the suck compared to ultrasonics when it comes to maintenece and water replacement, db level,
maybe a small fan, like even a strong PC type fan, all u need to do it move the ultrasonic mist about the chamber
the fan has to suck in hepa filter'd air from the outside of the chamber and mix it w/ the mist as it comes out to diffuse it
other wise it just falls in an arc to the bottom, u need 90% rh air , and its gotta be moving.
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fresh313
journeyman


Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: fresh313]
#5323095 - 02/21/06 06:31 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Edgekrusher
God
Registered: 10/10/05
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: fresh313]
#5323481 - 02/21/06 10:23 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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wow, that's some pimp ass 5-tier Martha drawing skills.
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Omnicracker
Crusted Trolltivator

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 1,421
Loc: Wal-Merica
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: Edgekrusher]
#5323637 - 02/21/06 11:00 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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^^^^^word up.^^^^^^^
if you put the coolmist INSIDE the martha, then you dont even need an ultrasonic, and it will be quieter (i know, you dont care). then put a few polyfil holes aroung the martha to let air move through. maybe 2 per tier.
Edited by Omnicracker (02/21/06 11:01 AM)
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tokey666
Let's Build It Instead


Registered: 08/05/05
Posts: 666
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: Omnicracker]
#5324386 - 02/21/06 02:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well if you put the coolmist inside the martha, that defeates the purpose of FAE because its sucking in the same air that its putting out.
HOWEVER, if you get one of those vicks coolmists, then you can attach dryer vent to the INTAKE of it and run it outside the martha so it pulls air from there. Then you won't need a fan. The coolmist will push enough air.
But, even so, I still think you could do the same thing with a small computer fan mounted on the top and the ultrsonic on the bottom for humidity. That way you won't worry about ducting air in and plus, it will be much more reliable.
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pipeDream
Moooo

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 67
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: tokey666]
#5324760 - 02/21/06 04:50 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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What I thought i would do is use 2 of these type of fans at the bottom pointing up (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=200321019&R=200321019&storeId=6970&langId=-1&cm_ven=Performics&cm_cat=Performics&cm_pla=Performics&cm_ite=Performics) the ultrasonic would be tubed into right above the fans at the bottom of the setup to blow the mist up through the shelves system where the air can vent at the top so i get a constant flow of air running up through the the terrarium. I dont know to me it seems like it would work, just might take a little playing around with to figure out how to run the ultrasonic and keep the humididty at certain levels, but a little trial and error can fix that. Im still trying to decide if the fans should pull the outside air through a filter and then into the terrarium or just pull outside air in.
-------------------- What is wrong with our culture is that it offers us an inaccurate conception of the self. It depicts the personal self as existing in competition with and in opposition to nature. We fail to realise that if we destroy our environment, we are destroying what is in fact our larger self. (Freya Matthew)
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Omnicracker
Crusted Trolltivator

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 1,421
Loc: Wal-Merica
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: tokey666]
#5324795 - 02/21/06 04:58 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
tokey666 said: Well if you put the coolmist inside the martha, that defeates the purpose of FAE because its sucking in the same air that its putting out.
Quote:
there will be plenty of FEA with the coolmist in the Martha. just put two holes on either side of each tier and cover them with tyvek. a loose fitting door works as well.
think about mono/doubletubs, they get enough FEA with polyfil holes and some air movement. the coolmist will stir up the air enough to exchange it.
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tokey666
Let's Build It Instead


Registered: 08/05/05
Posts: 666
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: pipeDream]
#5324806 - 02/21/06 05:01 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I seriously recommend having the fans PULL air INTO the martha. Put the fans at the top. (Althought one fan will be plenty.) And have the air pumped into the bottom. This will cause negative pressure, which is good. It puts less stress on the fans. PLUS, if you are pulling air UP, you are guaranteeing your humidity to rise that high. If you are counting on those little fans to PUSH humidity 5 feet high by "blowing it" up there, then the humidity will be much lower on the top of the martha than on the bottom.
EDIT: Those fans you linked to are 100 cfm. That 100 cubic feet of air in one minute. That is ALOT of air in one minute. Pulling/puhsing that much might dry your casings out.
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pipeDream
Moooo

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 67
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: tokey666]
#5324913 - 02/21/06 05:30 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thats they way im describing it, it will pull air into the martha just from the bottom going up since that is the natural flow of the carbon dioxide anyways.
-------------------- What is wrong with our culture is that it offers us an inaccurate conception of the self. It depicts the personal self as existing in competition with and in opposition to nature. We fail to realise that if we destroy our environment, we are destroying what is in fact our larger self. (Freya Matthew)
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tokey666
Let's Build It Instead


Registered: 08/05/05
Posts: 666
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: pipeDream]
#5324942 - 02/21/06 05:37 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Right, but you said you wanted to put the fans at the bottom.
"The ultrasonic would be tubed into right above the fans at the bottom of the setup"
I recommend the fans at the top of the entire martha. Still pull the air from the bottom.
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pipeDream
Moooo

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 67
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: tokey666]
#5325171 - 02/21/06 06:24 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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oh you mean so it sucks the air through the martha instead of blowing the air through. Alright ya thats a pretty good idea. Keeps it from getting gusty through the set up. What do you think, something like this should work right?
-------------------- What is wrong with our culture is that it offers us an inaccurate conception of the self. It depicts the personal self as existing in competition with and in opposition to nature. We fail to realise that if we destroy our environment, we are destroying what is in fact our larger self. (Freya Matthew)
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tokey666
Let's Build It Instead


Registered: 08/05/05
Posts: 666
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: pipeDream]
#5325369 - 02/21/06 06:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think that would work EXCELLENT. That's my opinion though. Nobody else seems to want to chime in. 
But yes, because of backpressure and how negative pressure works, pulling air is ALWAYS better for the fans then pushing it. Look at computer cases. Some have just the fans that blow air out the back, and some that blow air out the back AND push it in (which is called positive pressure). Either way, there is never a case that blows air INTO into without a fan to blow out.
With that said, keep in mind that you don't want to bring TOO MUCH air in at once. This will cause increased transpiration of your casings, causing them to dry out VERY quickly, despite the amount of humidity in the martha.
With my setup, I run 1 fan (about 35 cfm) for 6 minutes every 4 hours in my tub. Now my casings are drying out. And I watch my humidity drop down to 75 percent (from 95+)in a matter of those 6 minutes.
You are going to have the same problem, but on a larger scale if you get fans with too much ooooomph. You want to SLOWLY draw the air through without bringing humidity down.
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fresh313
journeyman


Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: tokey666]
#5325713 - 02/21/06 08:03 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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co2 settles at the bottom, u want fresh air to come in from the top, to push the co2 which is settling at the bottom out
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fresh313
journeyman


Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: fresh313]
#5325715 - 02/21/06 08:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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i think yall just want more pictures
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tokey666
Let's Build It Instead


Registered: 08/05/05
Posts: 666
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: fresh313]
#5325985 - 02/21/06 08:56 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well true it does settle at the bottom. But we are talking about an entire air flush exchange in the matter of 5-15 minutes. I seriously don't think the shroomies will mind a tad bit higher of PPM co2 flying by them.
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fresh313
journeyman


Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: tokey666]
#5326165 - 02/21/06 09:42 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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http://xs69.xs.to/pics/06083/marthafairwrongway.jpg i think thats what yall are describing, whats wrong with that picture
Edited by fresh313 (02/21/06 09:49 PM)
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tokey666
Let's Build It Instead


Registered: 08/05/05
Posts: 666
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: martha setup w/ ultrasonic and fan [Re: fresh313]
#5327379 - 02/22/06 08:40 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I really don't understand either one of those diagrams, but from what it looks like, you are venting in the coolmist at the top below the fans. NO.
You vent the humidifier through the bottom of the chamber so that the fans can suck the humidity up. But ACTUALLY, if you want to do it correctly. There should be about three outlets into the chamber for the humidity. One high, one medium, and one tall.
But then again, you are also forgetting about the complete air exchange in a short period of time. NO HUMIDIFIER is going to be able to keep up with that, no matter where it is vented in, top, or bottom.
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