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Invisibledorkus
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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5327560 - 02/22/06 12:38 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Love is Life is Force is Chi. Surrender/Acceptance equals Expansion.

Swimming upstream contracts.

The polar opposite of Love could be Death, but then again it is to be noted that death is the womb of life (making them two sides of the same coin). Love is all, love is One.


Edited by dr_mandelbrot (02/22/06 12:40 PM)


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Offlineseeker
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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5327569 - 02/22/06 12:44 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

"Explicit Duality Expressing An Implicit Unity"

All those ones and zeros make up the pretty pictures on your screen.


--------------------
In a state of anarchy every individual is their own kingdom.

Thou art God (but so am i :wink:)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: seeker]
    #5327572 - 02/22/06 12:46 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

seeker said:
pain and pleasure become love and hate




Pain is simply pain and it exists by its own accord. It is when one fears pain that one may begin to hate that which is responsible for the infliction of pain. The hatred would inevitably spring forth as a reaction to prevent that which one fears from occuring.

It is entirely possible to experience pain and to not begin to hate or fear anything at all. I do not hate or fear my boxcutter, with which I have cut myself a couple of times, and I do not hate or fear anything as the result of a loved one dying. Fear and subsequent hatred are mental reactions to a specific experience that, in my personal opinion, cause far more negative experience and suffering than one could ever hope to prevent by them. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: seeker]
    #5327577 - 02/22/06 12:47 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Love as the implicit unity expressed through the explicit duality ranging from fear to pleasure (bliss).

eta: Love is not a feeling. Love's unconstricted manifestation is expressed through feeling of joy.


Edited by dr_mandelbrot (02/22/06 12:50 PM)


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Offlineseeker
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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5327783 - 02/22/06 02:10 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I concede that love and hate could be further abstractions from even simpler concepts, but if hate comes from fear, than love comes from what?

How about:

(+)accept---(+/-)---fear(-)

or

(+)-----------(+/-)--------(-)
embrace---accept---fear

Thoughts?


--------------------
In a state of anarchy every individual is their own kingdom.

Thou art God (but so am i :wink:)


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5327894 - 02/22/06 02:34 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Fear and hate together...make the explosion :frown:

seeker: embracement, acceptance do make out love, yes. As well as interst, curiosity, benefit and much more.

Define it like: 'Turn towards' contra 'avoidance'.
Definitly based as chemicals and brainfunctions, too.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: seeker]
    #5328140 - 02/22/06 03:56 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

seeker said:
I concede that love and hate could be further abstractions from even simpler concepts, but if hate comes from fear, than love comes from what?

How about:
                           
          (+)accept---(+/-)---fear(-)

or

          (+)-----------(+/-)--------(-)
          embrace---accept---fear

Thoughts?





I have some and I'll keep it easy to relate too.

FW equated love with being in your fullness. I see that as being in your full power.

Which is a full bank account of vital life force energy?

O++++++++++++++++++++++++->infinity

OR

O-------------------------->infinity

Negative numbers have zero power.

When powerless, were helpless , hopeless and afraid, particularly when faced wit a threat. Negative values have no cushion for accepting more negative values and can okay. They get worse and more in the hole.

If you are in your infinite positive power, the negatives can keep coming at you and you can keep fulfilling them from your infinite positive value power supply.

When powerful, we feel able to help the self and others, hopeful, and confident, even when faced with any threat.

That's love, being infinitely full of the positive. It has the power to accept and cancel out all negative values and even turn them into positive ones.

If your personal inner wealth account is in the negatives( no positive love), you are as weak as weak gets. To have power, you have to either, borrow and OWE, ask another to just give it to you, or steal it. Most people who are far gone into the spectrum of no positive love, opt to steal it, because their sense of confidence and hope is so shot, they are beyond believing one will even give it to them if they just ask for it or a loan.

The way to rebuild your personal power is through building up positive love resources from within.

This has nothing to do with equality balance.

What good is a bank account with $50 credit and a $50 debit? It's value is ZERO. Its useless.

What use is the equal balance of good and bad. Are you eating healthy and maintaining a vital body when you eat half fresh fruit(good)  and half spoiled fruit (bad)?

Are you drinking healthy when you drink a glass full of half fresh pure water and half stagnant polluted water?

Are you breathing healthy reviatlizing air if you suck in half pure and fresh air and half pollutted air?

This idea of being in equal balance of half good/bad, right/wrong, positive/negative is not healthy or keeping one vital.

Are you in a healthy relationship when you get hit and abused only half of the time?

The balance to strive for and be in is the center of positive infinity moving in and out from you in all directions. Thats being in the power of love.

Love is just a label that to many people have tied up with romantic notions.

Positive power is what we are talking about here. Some call that the power of love.

There is no power in a negative. Some call that the powerlessness of fear. It can only get power from off of others, by asking for it, borrowing it or stealing it.

The rotten food will rob from your vital energy and eat away at you, the foul water will rob from your vital energy and eat away at you, an abusive person will rob vital energy and eat away at you and same with foul air , foul thoughts and foul feelings.

Negative states and negative people, rob from and eat away at life.

A negative person, out of positive power and moving further out of the power of love and further into fear begins to act like a black hole. Same with a negative bank account that never has positive numbers added to it. It just falls deeper into the proverbial hole.

There is no positive value or power in the negative. Why would any one want to balance it into their life equation?

Being all positive does not put one out of balance. One that is full of the positive whole (love) has nowhere to fall.

Being pulled away from your positive center into the negatives throws your balance off. Fear throws us off balance and into instability. 

If you catch it happening, add more positive to the negative account until you get back up into the positives again. Thats where your stability is found just like with money. Only here, apply your thoughts and feelings to negative and positive numbers and yourself as the generator of thoughts and feelings (positive or negative cash flow) being your personal wealth account that you draw from.

Thats where expressions like people being mentally, emotionally or spiritually bankrupt come from.

It's time to redefine what a healthy balance is.

Consciousness is going digital. We have no need for a negative to create a positive color print and it's time to ditch them. We never really did need them. The positive color print was always there. We just had to evolve and learn how to capture it with the use of the negative to realize it.  :wink:

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5328258 - 02/22/06 04:39 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

"...To have power, you have to either, borrow and OWE, ask another to just give it to you, or steal it..." [If one is weak, you say]

Hmmm..sorry, completely reedited my post due to structural mixation of content, still lacking words :lol:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineSprings
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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5328337 - 02/22/06 05:03 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Im not to sure if its propper or essential at least to use energy outside of ones self, I think the individual has or is capable of all the energy and power need, the idea that power is or should be taken from someone is limiting, and perhaps takes away from ones own potential.


:smile:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5328358 - 02/22/06 05:09 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
"...To have power, you have to either, borrow and OWE, ask another to just give it to you, or steal it..." [If one is weak, you say]

Hmmm..sorry, completely reedited my post due to structural mixation of content, still lacking words :lol:




You took that out of context. I said, that is the case when you are in the NEGATIVES and staying negative.

Of course when you are in the negatives, you can repower your own self with postives. I talked about that too.

In the sentence you grabbed, that was referring to those in the negative that REFUSE to be their own generating source of positive income (energy).

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5328382 - 02/22/06 05:19 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I have some and I'll keep it easy to relate too.


:eek:

Not using that many abstractions you won't, but hey, thats exactly the issue I'm trying to explore, so, um, thanks, I guess.

I will write up a proper response to your post, but I'm going to need a little time, and maybe some drugs, to flesh out something that furthers the topic and doesn't come off as a simple 'Nuh uh'( though I do agree, I think, with some of what your saying), so, like, stay tuned.

And, by the way Blue Coyote:

Quote:

Define it like: 'Turn towards' contra 'avoidance'.
Definitely based as chemicals and brainfunctions, too.




Any expansion on this would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

Peace ..V,


--------------------
In a state of anarchy every individual is their own kingdom.

Thou art God (but so am i :wink:)


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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: seeker]
    #5328505 - 02/22/06 06:14 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

It's okay with me if you disagree and maintain the old mindset of duality balance being put into play. :thumbup:

Be careful not to become like those people who start generating lots of good and go "OH this is to good to be true" and then self sabotage and balance yourself back to almost zero, zero or into the negatives, depending on how much fear arose in you when your lack of self worth (love) was showing via the comment/thought feeling.

I gave another view on positive, being in fullness balance, it's option and reasons for being in it. Take it or leave it. :sun:

My first reply was regarding what FW said and your reply to that. I have no idea what you were meaning to say in your original post. My last reply wasn't addressing that.

:peace: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5329166 - 02/22/06 09:54 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I feel insulted somehow. Oh well, fuck it.

What I'm attempting to do (with great difficulty) is break the thought process down to the simplest abstract concept, and how it relates to the development of human action. I think the (general) language, and thus the thought process, has become abstract in its relation to physical existence.


--------------------
In a state of anarchy every individual is their own kingdom.

Thou art God (but so am i :wink:)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: seeker]
    #5329444 - 02/22/06 10:44 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

No need to feel insulted. Fuck that stuff is right! Laugh it off and love yourself and stay in your positive center. I was waiting for you to clear up the love hate stuff to understand where your first post was coming from better.

Why not break it down to the simplest abstract of Love or positive power. (same thing to me)

It's not that I am suggesting the negative just "disappears" . It becomes integrated and realized to be working for us, not against us when we understand its purpose, to show us where we are resisting life.

When we think things are working in opposition against us, it is we who are working against assimilating more of the self.

Like when something tries our patience. It isn't working against us, it is working for us in our best interest asking us to expand and accept more of the self to allow for what is happening and to make the appropriate positive change to be more giving.

Whatever we believe to be working against us or what seems to be is really just showing us where we have resistance put up to our own growth, the growth of others and the flows of life that keep things growing. When that force comes up against our own resistance to it, if we don't give way to it, it'll crush us. Best to give way and let it flow through and on and learn from it.

Positive power is a force we self generate, allow ourselves to receive and accept, through self love or positive self expression, thought and feeling. As it freely gives to us as income, we give of it as outflow through the love for all of life.

Fear is a force that self degenerates, as it denies and takes. Its the degenerating self that fears it's own positive/love power and the positive love power of life.

The only abstract worth working with is love/positive power.

Sure, it takes practice loving the self and generating positive power 24/7. We slip and fall. The key is to catch that and get back to love and generating positive power again. It's amazing how life starts to change the more you can stay in love (positive power) and keep giving way to flow by opening yourself up more.

Maybe this has something to do with what you were attempting to break through to. If not, carry on..........

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5330970 - 02/23/06 11:24 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

> if there were to be one, it would not be hate, but, rather, fear.

Hmmm... better than anything I came up with. I will have to think on this one... we hate what we fear... ?


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5331183 - 02/23/06 12:46 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The only abstract worth working with is love/positive power.




Well, thats a beautiful sentiment, but unfortunately the average daily existence is filled with abstracts like money and war and good and evil and honor and revenge and all the pretty little 'ism's that are sprinkled about. Now, all of these are built upon simpler concepts one of them being love, but to assume that love is all you need to understand the growth of human consciousness is to ignore the role fear played in Man's continued search for knowledge. He would have never learned balance with nature if he had not first tried to conquer it. You must remember that He outlived his environment (the ice age), his food supplies (whens the last time you ate mammoth?), and even his own relatives because he was a mean son of bitch.
The chemical emotion as well as the mental concept of love has certainly played a vital role in man's relation to himself, but what about his relation to his environment?
For example take disease. We hate it and constantly search to wipe it out whatever it may be. Whether or not this is "healthy" is debatable, but it certainly has an influence on the common language and thought.
Some claim math is the language of the universe. Maybe, maybe not, but the idea comes from the fact that math is, for the most part, directly related to the physical world, and what you "say" with math, for the most part, can be directly applied to the physical world.
Let consider, as a statement, the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance which every child (in the U.S.) is expected to mimic or recall by the age of ten.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands; one nation, under god, indivisible; with liberty and justice for all."

Now this too is a beautiful sentiment, but it doesn't reflect the fact that the U.S. is a secular, class based, plutocracy, and while these ideas are abstractions on par with allegiance, republic, god, liberty, and justice, the only concepts that a ten year old child is capable of grasping in full are stands, indivisible (assuming a proper course in mathematics), and all. When you repeat these over and over again you get the impression that the U.S. could never be a "secular, class based, plutocracy". This leads to a confusion over the concepts, and, I think, confusion in society.

Is any of this making sense?


--------------------
In a state of anarchy every individual is their own kingdom.

Thou art God (but so am i :wink:)


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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: Seuss]
    #5331202 - 02/23/06 12:52 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

we hate what we fear




Depending on what or how much we fear versus what or how much we love; yes.

Qualifier:
I think.


--------------------
In a state of anarchy every individual is their own kingdom.

Thou art God (but so am i :wink:)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: seeker]
    #5331294 - 02/23/06 01:21 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

What I said rolls with that. I said, it's not that negativity disappears, its that its assimilated with the positive.

Same would go with all the things life presents us to be afraid of. We can assimilate that fear and its derivatives with love and its derivatives.

When life appears to be working against us in fear, all we have to work with is love- understanding, appreciation, respect, consideration, acceptance, allowance, responsibility, care, compromise, goodwill, etc.

How does one work with fear alone and accomplish anything but being in that fear and becoming the cause of something to fear to others? Thats for manipulators, intimidators and control freaks who are running in the negatives as I discussed earlier. Thats being in a self degenerating state.

You had reiterated that you were looking for the one simple abstract to work with in life. I maintain that it is love/positive power.

I'm probably at an average of 80/20 love to fear ratio right now and as my love/positive power quotient keeps going up life keeps getting better! I don't want to be at a balance of 50% love 50% fear.

Like FW was saying and I followed, the full being is all love/positive power and has its center of balance is in that. Its when fear/negative suckage of power enters the picture that we get thrown off balance.

People keep saying "God/Source/Force whatever is both the light and dark".

Horse hockey. It's all love and light. The fear and darkness only enters the pictures when in forgetfulness or as it was said, in love lacking.

Some say, "Oh the dark forces do have power". Horse Hockey, they are degenerates-generate NO power of there own. ZILCHO ZIP. They are nothing more then the shadows of forgotten love.

The way they get power is by manipulating the positive power we generate from out of us and then use our own power against us. They do it with Fear and its derivatives like shaming,  hate, negativity, intimidation, guilt, put downs etc.

What will happen when people stop falling for those suckers traps? They will loose all power if people stop giving it away out of fear. Without their own ability to generate power, they are just as dead/phantom like as they always really were. 

You want to understand how it works, I just explained it. You want a simple abstract to work with in life, I say its love/positive power. Be the generator of it in your own life and when the black holes come around, rise above them, steer around them and move on or gobble up the ghosts like pac man with your love. Waca waca waca waca waca

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5331426 - 02/23/06 02:07 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Whoa dude, I'm not talking about personal abstracts. As far as that goes, mine is beauty. I don't think the world is beautiful because I love it; I love the world because it is beautiful.
What I'm talking about is how the external language and common concepts affect the internal thought process, and simplifying the external to clarify the internal. I think we'd have allot less "fanatics" of any sort if we better understood how our built up abstractions relate to the physical world from which they're constructed. I'd much rather construct abstractions that allow me simply and accurately state the complex rather than constantly having to deconstruct those that have become, or started out as, convoluted and misleading.

Am I becoming clearer now?


--------------------
In a state of anarchy every individual is their own kingdom.

Thou art God (but so am i :wink:)


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: The Abstract Machine [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5331590 - 02/23/06 02:53 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

People keep saying "God/Source/Force whatever is both the light and dark".

Horse hockey. It's all love and light. The fear and darkness only enters the pictures when in forgetfulness or as it was said, in love lacking.


Fear and darkness are the backside of love (contraction). It is all the same spinning coin imo.


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