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Invisibledemiu5
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Is it possible...
    #5317600 - 02/19/06 07:47 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

to remain friends with someone whom you lost respect for? Simple question.

If this is not the right forum, please move it.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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Offlinesignoffate
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: demiu5]
    #5317672 - 02/19/06 08:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

As long as you are open to forgiveness.

Mercy for the sake of respect.


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: signoffate]
    #5317984 - 02/19/06 09:34 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

yup its possible but trust will have to regained.


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: blaze2]
    #5318019 - 02/19/06 09:43 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Trust is not the issue, my friend, it's more of: actions occurred essentially compromising what someone was all about, something that can't be undone, and since there is that character flaw, it makes me doubt the rest of the person.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: demiu5]
    #5318035 - 02/19/06 09:48 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Trust and friendship are not mutual, so you can definitely have a friendship without trust. Nevertheless, it won't be an open or confidential friendship, but you can still share other more overt facets of your life together.

Unless the trust issue is so major that you don't even trust them not to purposely harm you, in which case it'd be better to stay away or to purposely harm them first.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineMiRrOr
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: demiu5]
    #5318067 - 02/19/06 09:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

demius said:
to remain friends with someone whom you lost respect for?  Simple question. 

If this is not the right forum, please move it.





well my friend, for starters, just based on the subjects title of "is it possible...", my answer is YES...because ANYTHING is POSSIBLE...

but, in all seriousness, it really depends on the action that made you lose respect...was it something AGAINST you?  or just something they did to affect their own life that you do not condone (sp?)...

be more specific on what it is they did to u, and maybe we can assist u  :thumbup:

forgiveness is one of the many keys to life...


--------------------
"i don't mind the sun sometimes, the images it shows....i can taste you on my lips and smell you in my clothes....cinnamon, and sugary, and softly spoken lies, ya never know just how ya look in other peoples eyes"


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: demiu5]
    #5318080 - 02/19/06 10:03 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

For a while maybe. But it still isn't how it should. But time and the succeeding of facts changes everything. If you really love your friend and feel that your friendship deserves your forgiveness or patience, you should stay close to your friend. We, people don't really have a lot of true friends. And we can gain a lot more with just a little more patience
and whiling to forgive. We all make mistakes.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: MiRrOr]
    #5318239 - 02/19/06 11:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

No, it was nothing against me.

Additionally, trust is not an issue here. I'm not going to reveal the story, but again, a friend acted in a way that shattered what they stood for, something they believed in, or at least told me they did. It is something that can't be undone. It is not a forgivable or unforgivable action; it just is.

Since my friend's action, I no longer see beauty in them, I no longer have respect for them. Now I'm questioning the hours of conversations, etc. I don't think I believe them. To be honest, I'm not upset about the situation; I'm at a loss, and feel that I could almost happily not deal with the person again, but I have to see them at least twice a week.

Maybe this makes things a little more clearer? Or just worse.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: demiu5]
    #5318655 - 02/20/06 03:55 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I know what you're saying because it happened to me too. And all I can tell you is what I did, I'm not saying it's the bet way to deal this or not.
After it all happened, I thought I'll give the friendship another try, considering the facts as being not so important. Turned out it ment to me a lot more and in a short while couldn't remain friend with him because he was totally different to what he wanted to look like. So I just stooped any contacts with him, because every time I saw him after the "incident" it only came to my mind who he really was.
So the only way for me was to stop this, because I was only doing myself harm by remembering something bad.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: demiu5]
    #5318694 - 02/20/06 05:14 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

No. It is not possible. You have to rediscover your respect, or let him go.

On the surface you both might cope, but slowly you will tear eachother apart from the inside out. Your thoughts will torment.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: dorkus]
    #5318699 - 02/20/06 05:20 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

her*, but yea. I figured, I'd give it a shot...maybe it is just a character slip. But I thought, and was made to believe, it was something important. If I can't find anything good in her, then I suppose it will have to happen.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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Offlinegregorio
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: demiu5]
    #5318874 - 02/20/06 08:07 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

demius said:
to remain friends with someone whom you lost respect for? Simple question.





Great question!!

If you are talking about a relationship with the other sex, long time lovers or married, I would have to say no.

But if it is just your buddy, I would have to say yes. In fact I would say it would be your duty to remain friends. If you have lost your respect for this certain person, it only follows that they did something that was deserving of you to lose your respect for them.

I would say the best path ( one that I could only wish that I could follow ) would be total forgiveness, and keep looking out for your friend who seems to be in need.


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Invisiblekoppie
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: demiu5]
    #5319473 - 02/20/06 10:45 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

demius said:
a friend acted in a way that shattered what they stood for, something they believed in, or at least told me they did.





Seems to me that you've discovered that your friend is human. People aren't perfect, they make mistakes, they change and sometimes they disappoint you.
It is sometimes hard to look beyond peoples' politics, or their morals, but where those things end their humanity begins.
If you were friends with the ideal, then you can't repair it. If you were friends with the person underneath, then you should try to look past what this person used to stand for and look at who this person is.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: koppie]
    #5319619 - 02/20/06 11:34 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Essentially, you held a strong image of who this person was, and then they acted in a manner that did not fit your concept of this person's identity.

Thus, it is not surprising that you question every other aspect of the person that you once thought was an accurate representation of who they are. Obviously, your friend is still your friend, and is the person that was with you through all of your shared experiences.

The simple fact is that this person was always this person, before, during, and after this specific situation. It is your conception that lied at odds with who the person actually is.

I've personally dealt with this a lot in my recent history. I've found that it doesn't take long before the idea of who a certain person is as I hold it is shown to be more of my projection, who I want them to be. I've learned to hold no preconceptions and to simply experience my being with other humans as can directly be perceived.

No one is going to be perfect, and no one will ever consistently continue to fit your expectation of who they are to be. We are far too dynamic and multi-faceted, and the nature of our reality is far too complex and continously changing for our limited model of it to remain correct.

Its simply a truth that one comes to accept, as it must be accepted - its reality. Seeking to no longer interact with a person as a result of this will only drive you further and further away from anyone that you can share a moment with.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: demiu5]
    #5319656 - 02/20/06 11:49 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Examine the idea that is not shared or not resonated by yourself.
If it is impossible to discuss the idea and you can't follow the outcomes, then it is best to divorce until the ideas will be shared or synchronized again.

Don't let the actions form your will, untill you want to, intentionally :wink:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5319667 - 02/20/06 11:55 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

To koppie and fireworks_god: I suppose you are right, but if someone claims to be these things and then is not, is that my perception, or is that a change in the person? If someone can't stand by their own morals what do they have? If something is held as sacred, and pure, and then it is destroyed, what is left other than something impure and how does this echo throughout them?

Maybe I am trying to justify something, but again, I'm not mad about the situation, I just feel like I've been lied to, and that is something I cannot tolerate.


BlueCoyote: I both understand and misunderstand your post. I feel good words of wisdom there, but am afraid of soiling them with what I perceive it to be.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: demiu5]
    #5319727 - 02/20/06 12:12 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Perhaps I need a translator, but my words are put by me as concrete as possible (for me). Please feel free to ask any questions :heart:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5319738 - 02/20/06 12:14 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Examine the idea that is not shared or not resonated by yourself.




Which idea? The idea of feeling betrayed, the idea of my friend's action?


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: demiu5]
    #5319754 - 02/20/06 12:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

The idea of your friends action, definitively. Compared to your idea about the subject.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5319768 - 02/20/06 12:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I will try and think about the two seperately.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: demiu5]
    #5319776 - 02/20/06 12:25 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

That definitively will do some very good !
:heart:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (02/20/06 12:31 PM)


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: demiu5]
    #5319850 - 02/20/06 12:51 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Hmm perhaps I should try to elaborate, but it is hard work for me :wink: But as friendship is some serious stuff in my eyes, I will do :smile:

As I see it, respect builds on resonating with ideas. As ideas are subjective by definition, it is not quite naturally true that they will resonate that easy with everyones perception and actions.

And I would think, that friendship builds on respect very strongly. If there is no respect in your friendship, you may have a good time perhaps, but you never can be sure of it, as you are not sure of the resonance with your ideas and intentions.

This makes base for friendship and if those ideas and intentions will not be shared somehow, respect will fall and so will friendship do. Single mean to rebuild is to synchronize ideas again, in whatever form and manner. Action is only a layer.

But, if not retreating/divorcing/splitting from following your friend, the danger will be to loose your ideals yourself, as intentions and ideas could be re-programmed by the actions you do while following your friends intention.

Be sure about the intentions aka ideas behind the actions, and if they are not according to yours in any subjective way, plan a divorce until you will find a way to communicate ideals again.

(But somehow, I really must admit, I have a friend who is 'intellectual satanist' [directly opposite to me], but somehow he also wants the wilderness on the planet to persist and the human to be individually free, and I don't see him do evil acts. at the opposite, he is in general a quite nice guiy, so I can stay friend with him, also, because I know him soso long and see the the 'benevolent' (good-wanting for all) still  inside of him, whicked by his way of interpretation.)


Ps:But the more I try to concretisize it again, the diffuser I get. Orientate by my first post, please :wink: :heart:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (02/20/06 12:59 PM)


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5319914 - 02/20/06 01:14 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I think I have to come to a temporary conclusion...

I need not worry about my feelings so much in this situation. Her actions are her own and seeing as how they were not directed towards me, and have very little to do with me, I shouldn't be overly concerned.

I also realized I am more concerned about her. She gave herself to a guy for the first time. She hangs on every word of his and he, for the most part treats her like shit. They aren't really even in a relationship, but she has led herself down a dark trail. She even admits this yet continues on. He goes weeks at a time with no contact, then pops back up. She says horrible things about him, but once he comes back, all is magically forgiven. He is the type that asks for more chances repeatedly because he knows he will fuck up, and almost seems to do so intentionally. He works in the ways on manipulation, and it is obvious; he treats women like absolute and utter shit. These things will continute, and she will further fall into worse states, but she remains. This girl means much to me, maybe even too much.

I have to get ready to get to class now, I will try to come back and elaborate. I'm still not sure how our friendship will fare, because she knows I'm not pleased, she knows. But I will try to make the best of it.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: demiu5]
    #5319951 - 02/20/06 01:24 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

What kind of 'adventure' does she seek ?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: demiu5]
    #5320003 - 02/20/06 01:45 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

How can that make you lose respect for her?


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: dorkus]
    #5320276 - 02/20/06 03:12 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

BlueCoyote: I can't explain to you what she seeks. I know some of the things, and others I don't. She wants simplicity and thrilling adventures. She is still young, as am I, but she has much growing to do (not saying I or anyone else doesn't, but you'd have to know her or know the type).

dr_mandelbrot: This is something she and I have spent hours talking about. It is something she truly felt was important, and not something to be wasted. And then she did, on someone who she knows will let her down; even moreso, it was a sporadic event (as she explained to me). It can't, technically, 'make' me lose respect, but I have. I think it will be okay, but time will be the ultimate deciding factor. It's going to be one of those things to just move on from, but I will not look at her the same way, ever, it is just not that way.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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OfflinejustAkid
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: demiu5]
    #5322132 - 02/20/06 10:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I know exactly the type of girl you're talking about. I was close friends with one once myself.

When I saw her and I saw the way she was being treated I wanted to show her how a real relationship is supposed to be. She was bulimic because her boyfriend constantly told her she needed to lose weight. She also thought she deserved less than everyone else because of the way she was constantly treated.

I decided that showing compassionate Love and assuring her of her self-worth was the best route.

Now to answer your question.

She has lost her self-respect so it is very easy to lose for her as well. But this is part of the problem. When people don't show respect for themselves they are less likely to receive respect from others thus even furthering their self-degradation. Instead of losing respect choose to see her as in pain, and it is up to you to save her from herself. You are her friend and she needs help and she needs Love(compassion).

Remember love(romantic) is a drug and she is addicted to this man and she will go through hell to get her fix. I think you would help a friend addicted to drugs.



--------------------
Trust thyself.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Is it possible... [Re: justAkid]
    #5323162 - 02/21/06 07:45 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I know she's addicted to him, she told me that after the first time she saw him again. But she doesn't want saving, therefore it's not my place to try.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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