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Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification
    #531757 -

My pet Jaguar is planning on using the following supplies which he has already purchaced:

12 Quart Jars (Ball Wide Mouth)
9 lbs. Organic Rye Berries
22 quart pressure cooker
4 mazatapec srain syringes from sporeworks
1 bag Poly-fil
2 37 gallon rubbermaid style totes

He plans on using a 1:1 ratio for his water to rye and using distilled water from the grocery.
A pencil sized hole will be poked in the lid and using polyfil stuffed tightly in the hole (ala Anno's Polyfil Tek) to facilitate air exchange.
He will then be Pressure cooking the jars for 60 minutes at 15psi.
He was thinking of pre cooking the rye for about 30 minutes to help it open up to kill all the nasty stuff and then letting it drip dry for about 45 more minutes to let the excess run off. IF he does this would there need to be a different ammount of water used in the jars?

Is the cooking better or should I just soak it for about 24 hours prior??

He then plans to sit them in a rubbermaid tote in the closet and let them go... just in the tote to prevent any misc stuff from interfereing with them...

He was thinking of using a aquarium heater in a glass jar filled with water placed in the middle of the tote and filling the bottom of the tote with a couple inches of water to help speed up colonization. The heaters are about $8 and I think thats easy enough. That should work just fine right?

After they are ready he plans to use trays and a 1:1 ratio casing mixture of vermiculite and peatmoss... then tossing in a bit of limestone. From what he understands this is a good basic mixture and should work fine and the limestone should help keep things clear of contams.

Then He will place these trays in the second tote... the one on top of the stack. This tote has the top cut out and replaced with thick transparent plastic sheeting and has been sealed with duct tape very carefully. This should provide the light they need properly and prevent letting more junk in the air. There will need to be a light placed above the tote and turned on for a while every day.

He was considering misting them with distilled water...
BUT... he thinks the totes are a little large for that... and his jaguar house is kinda dry ..... so he wants to use an aquarium bubbler or an ultrasonic humidifier on a 1 hour on one hour off cycle. WHICH ONE? He doesnt know.... and would like some info based on his specific enviroment. He is thinking he will need to get a hygromoter (sp?)

All in all if anyone can give me some hints so I can reassure him that all will be OK and go well then our lives will be much happier.....

Thanks

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: monkey_bat]
    #531845 -

He was thinking of pre cooking the rye for about 30 minutes to help it open up to kill all the nasty stuff and then letting it drip dry for about 45 more minutes to let the excess run off. IF he does this would there need to be a different ammount of water used in the jars?


If you are going to pre-cook the rye, put it in the pot and bring to a boil, then reduce heat to a simmer and cook for 45 minutes. Add some gypsum. Make sure the water is always covering the rye. When done, drain WELL for about 25 minutes then pack into jars and PC.

Is the cooking better or should I just soak it for about 24 hours prior??

It's a matter of opinion... I don't pre cook I just load the grain and water into the jars and pressure cook.

He was thinking of using a aquarium heater in a glass jar filled with water placed in the middle of the tote and filling the bottom of the tote with a couple inches of water to help speed up colonization. The heaters are about $8 and I think thats easy enough. That should work just fine right?

Yes... you might want to wrap a blanket around the outside of the tote to keep the heat in and cold out.

BUT... he thinks the totes are a little large for that... and his jaguar house is kinda dry ..... so he wants to use an aquarium bubbler or an ultrasonic humidifier on a 1 hour on one hour off cycle. WHICH ONE? He doesnt know.... and would like some info based on his specific enviroment. He is thinking he will need to get a hygromoter (sp?)

I would go for a cool mist humidifier and run 24/7. Or you can just use the aquarium bubbler and mist and fan as needed. Though with a cool mist it will require very little maitenance once in the casings stage. Definetely get a hygrometer, you will need it. Check Radio Shack for a decent one.

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: monkey_bat]
    #532854 -

bump

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: monkey_bat]
    #533101 -

Precooking,preboiling is a matter of opinion. If you want the endospores to germinate so you can kiil them , you would have to soak them overnight. No more than 24hrs. I know some folks that do this, and I also know some that do not. It probably all depends on the bacteria and spore load of your rye.If you do not do this, and you have contamination issues, then next time i would definately do it.

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: monkey_bat]
    #534841 -

Well... my jaguar went anhead and did it all on sunday night. He did 1 1/2 cups each water and rye and cooked them.

He looked for gypsum but couldnt find any at the garden centers and the help desk told him it was out of season.

The inicubator has a 100w aquarium heater inside a tal glass jar filled with water and the jar is nice and toasty... but the water surrounding the bottom of the jar is much colder... He is getting a thermomater from a friend. Is there a better method? Perhaps a second heater working in conjunction? Do these heaters need to be submurged directly in to the water at the bottom of the tote to properly heat all that?

The jars look good... no growth yet... He felt sorta worried because he1 was just squirtinig the spore syringes all over the grain and then shaking it up. Hopefully this should work... 2cc's per jar all down the insides of the jar and then shaken.

The poly-fil seems sorta soggy... he was worried about it being a breeding ground for contams, he covered the jar tops with foil lightly so they would be safer since they are just sitting here due to the incubator not being warm yet.

He said he is just going to keep watching and try to get this incubator working....

Edited by monkey_bat (01/29/02 10:01 AM)

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: monkey_bat]
    #536760 -

Ok... so Its been a few days since the jars were innoculated and I thought I would do an update... not that anyone seems to be reading this much.

Dumped all the water out of the bottom of the incubator tote. It just wasn't heating up. Left the tall jar with the tank heater in it. He doesn't have a thermomater to place in the tote so I dont know how warm it is... but the estimate is about 80 F . The humidity in the tote is about 100% since there is condensation on the lid and the sides and water running everywhere. Foil is still loosely placed over the lids still... dont want to cause any problems by soaking the polyfil with water droplets from the lid. Hopefully this still allows for some air exchange in the jars.

The jars are showing signs of what he believes to be mycelium growing. He doesn't know however... this is his first time growing. There are spots of little white fluffy stuff in the jars... and he looked at all the contam pictures and this just looks like normal growth. I guess it could be cobweb mold too... but he has nothing to loose by watching it and seeing how it goes.

He says he has a buildup of starch at the bottom of the Jars. I think this is ok... I dont see that it looks terribly nasty or anything... just like a bit of starch. He hasn't shaken the jars yet (since innoculation) because today is the first time he's noticed all this white stuff... hopefully this is a good thing.

I guess he should let the jars go and then shake them in a couple days ... or should he shake them now?

My jaguar got another 150w heater from a friend... and an air pump too.. these should come in handy later on I imagine

I wish my jaguar had money for a digital camera to show you what the white stuff looks like. Probably just normal growth (Fingers Crossed).

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: monkey_bat]
    #536783 -

If it's white your alright....
Shake those jars as soon as you first see the mycelium growing and spreading out in there.
Shake them again after another 3 days or so....sometimes you will only have to shake them once.
Keep them incubating at 80...I would try to get a thermometer because you really should regulate their temp.

Sounds like your doing good, keep us updated

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: ]
    #536817 -

Cool... I was thinking it was alright... but I'm a cautious person when it comes to these things... I like to know things are going ok.

I know I need a thermomater... but at the moment I am broke as a joke and I dont have much time to go shopping anyways..

I was wondering... since the humidity is so high in there already if I just duplicated the setup in the other tote (perhaps with the air pump for air-fllow) if it would be alright for the casings?? I do see that the water droplets could be a problem but If I place the tote on a slant they should all run to one side and into the bottom. Anyways... Thanks for the feedback

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: monkey_bat]
    #536823 -

I would not do that for the casings.. too much humidity. And you don't really need to heat your fruiting chamber..unless your house is cold. If your in the 70s inside then your fine.

If you're doing casings in another tote, all you would have to do is spray and fan every day. The humidity produced by the casings should be enough. You can add the fish tank bubbler to a jar of water inside the tote to create a more constant gas exchange and as a humidity booster.

Edited by Shroomism (01/31/02 11:11 AM)

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: ]
    #536853 -

Ok... thats what I thought... the humidity seems too high (90% is right for fruiting correct?)... and since the temp for fruiting is in the mid to low 70's (F) the heat would not be good.

I am going to go shake all the jars that have obvious growth. They still seem a bit wet inside... but I suppose that is good since at least they are not drying out. They dont seem water logged tho.. I guess they look about right.

I'm planning on turning this tote into another terrerrium after this tote gets emptied into the other one for casing/fruiting. To replace this one I plan on buying a styrofoam cooler for better insulation and less air space to heat.

I dont know about the misting and fanning... I work long hours and often I cant get back to the house to check on things until its time to go to bed again. I would prefer using something that will maintain the humidity constantly without my having to mess with it every day. Of course... we all want to be able to do things the lazy way.

I also did something else I dont know if it was a good idea... I plugged the holes under the handles (little plastic injection holes, 4 of them) with polyfil. I doubt this will do anything, but I just was bored and tried it so simply see if the polyfil got soggy. I dont know if perhaps later on this will help to keep contams out, but I didnt have anything else to seal the holes with.

All in all.. this looks like it's going good.... I was worried about doing Rye Berries on my first try... but I have been reading posts and Teks for MONTHS... and I was VERY clean... Lysol, Clorox and whatnot was everywhere and rinsed out well.

I am wondering what kind of yeilds I can expect from this... 12 Jars if they fully colonize and get cased might well excede the ammount of space I currently have to fruit them(??). I'm hoping I can do this for a few months and have mushies for the rest of the year stored in the freezer... or just keep doing it and give them away to my friends. Nonetheless.. I would love having an estimate on how much could be expected.

Whee... this is exciting....I feel like a kid just drooling over his christmas presents at the begining of december. Still lots of time ahead.

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Post deleted by MOE THE MAD SCIENTIST [Re: monkey_bat]
    #537034 -


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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: vatoloco]
    #537068 -

That must be why mine blush a little when I peep in
there and whisper "I'm gonna eat you soon"!


--------------------
The rest of those, who have gone before us,
cannot settle the unrest of those who follow.
(Finding Forrester)

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: monkey_bat]
    #537301 -

If you want a maintenance-free terrarium go get a cool mist humidifier.

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: ]
    #538616 -

Ok... so for a little update

the jars are looking nice... they were shaken again today
The mycelium is forming into thick clumps and runs... no contams so far as I can see.. just white fuzzy fluffy stuff.

This is only 5th day after innoculation was completed at 6AM on monday morning. I imagine these will be fully colonized by thursday or friday next week.

I'm planning on just using the same casing they use on Mush Mush... should be easy enough. I'm excited still... looking good.

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: monkey_bat]
    #538641 -

From my wombats experience if you are using the casing tek on mush mush make it thicker than they suggest. Most suggest to make it at least 1/2 inch if not 1 inch thick this just helps it too remain moist and humid. The thiner it is, the easier it will dry out and not fruit as well. Then again thats the wombat's experience...from the pictures on mush mush website it obviously works for them!!!


--------------------
"The man of Tao remains unknown
Perfect virtue produces nothing
'No-Self' is 'True-Self'
And the greatest man is Nobody"

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: jag192]
    #541014 -

Ok... another update.

All the jars except one seem to be going nicely... THe one jar seems to just be sitting. I saw some slight growth but nothing more than a few white spots. Maybe this jar got less spores. I smelled it... it smells like rye.. Nothing else. 11 out of 12 isnt bad tho...

My incubator was just rediculously humid... it was dripping all the time inside. I wiped down the walls with a clean cloth to take out some of the excess standing water. Now the incubator seems to have totally dried up.

A few of the jars are showing signs of drying slightly. Hopefully letting the humidity build back up will solve this problem.

I shook the jars that had shown signifigant growth since last shaking... All the jars but one are nice and white. Hopefully only a few more days and they will be fully collonized.

I'm wondering if maybe the jar was too close to the aquarium heater in the incubator. The excess heat might stall the jar right? And that could be causing some of the drying i suppose. With the humidity down in there the heat seems to be not as even. Hopefully I didnt fuck things up. I doubt I did... everything seems cool.

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: monkey_bat]
    #547326 -

Ok... A new update

I went to the store today... I got some gladware containers and misc other stuff

My jars have been looking the same for about 4 days... and they are really white... with little bits of grain pressed to the glass... SO.. I cased them

I used 50/50 Peat/Vermiculite and a dash of lime (10 cups/10 cups... 1 tblspoon)

I moistened the mix... PC'd for 60min at 15psi and let it cool on the balcony for about 30 min... and then another 60 min inside unil it was room temp.

The jars were pretty solid... I had 8 in all that are totally white with little bits of grain pressed to the glass. They wouldn't break up really easy... I had to bang them for a while. I even had to dig one out.. but it wasnt wet... just really colonized. I had shaken them off and on... but appearently not enough. I might want to ad some gypsum next time.

I cased them in some containers with more surface space and on some with less... so the depth is 2 different levels. I cased them accordingly. Then I wrapped them in alminum foil, a little loosely around some areas so air could get in.

I purchaced a Radio Shack Thermometer/Hygrometer today (63-1030) and it was working well... until it started fucking up. Read my other post to see what I'm talking about. I think it is healing itself...

I placed the casings back in the Incubator which is reading 80F with my analog thermometer. The temp dropped from me opening the lid so much today to take the jars out and put the casings back in.... It shoud return to normal overnight.

I left one jar uncased so it could possibly be used for innoculating other jars... I need to look into this in the next couple of days... I have about 8 jars of Rye Berries left in my fridge.... and I also have more Syringes (2 more to be exact).
Hopefully I can get the next batch going while these are running.

I have the second tote with the lid cut out and clear thick plastic duct taped on both the inside and out for light. An air bubbler stone in a glass of water is placed inside and is going... when the digital gauge was working it seemed to be ok (91% RH)... needs some heat... I'll get that fixed very soon. If nothing else I'll postpone my new jars and wait till this is done... or I'll get another heating unit... who knows.

I also got another new toy... A huge styrofoam cooler with 2 1/2 in. thick sides and a very nice perfect square shape... I plan on using this as an incubator from now on ... it will hold about 8 jars I think..That should be good enough... I plan on going to Castings and straw if this works out well. I will need to turn the other tote into a fruiting/cultivation chamber. Another air pump and perhaps another heating unit and I should be good to go.

Well... That about sums it up.... Please respond if you have the time and patience to read this.


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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: monkey_bat]
    #547338 -

nice setup!! growing mushrooms is soo fun:) Cant wait to see how it goes.

glacius


--------------------
addicted to reason
a hollow understanding trapped me
I cannot see outside but its calling

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: monkey_bat]
    #547346 -

Sounds great man you should do good..

Couple things...

I'd use more lime than that...I use a teaspoon of lime PER casing. If you have 20 cups total casing material, I would use a 1/4 cup lime or so.

If you use that extra jar as spawn for more jars...make sure you do it in a sterile environment. You can make a cheap workable glovebox for about $3 in supplies
~ Cardboard Box
~ Saran Wrap
~ Duct Tape
~ Latex Gloves

Cut the flaps off the box, cut armholes in the side, make some ghetto arm things by duct taping plastic bags in the armholes. Then put holes in the end big enough for your hands. Spray the inside of the box with lysol, put the stuff in it, cover with saran wrap, put latex gloves on and go to work!
Works like a charm...no need to spend $500 on a fancy glovebox.

Using the styrofoam box for the incubator is a good idea, retains the heat well.

Good luck with your project and keep us updated!

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: ]
    #547361 -

I've been thinking about air exchange... and I'm wondering: will the bubbler do the trick? I was looking at some fans at Radio Shack (overpriced I think). Would installing a DC Fan (3inch) just to simply stir the air up a bit do anything?

I also looked at the KAZ Vicks Cool Mist Humidifier. $23.98 at walmart. I was thinking about possibly using it next week... when i have more $$ to spend on this project. Garden Hoses and what not. I was thinking that might also help the air exchange as well as adding humidity.

Anyways.. Shroomism you suggested the CooL Mist so perhaps it would be a good idea. Heating the chamber provides another problem. The water temp in my incubator (in the isolated glass jar) is about 130 F. This radiates a bit of heat and raises the humidity to around 100%. That is just too hight for casings... perhaps some other means? Or maybe I keep the temp down and try to keep the temps in the chambers in the high 70's or at 80 F. I dunno... I'm learning.. First time and all... yada yada


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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: monkey_bat]
    #547372 -

The bubbler probably wont provide enough air exchange for the casings, you would have to fan manually a couple times a day.
If you are looking for a maintenance free setup, cool mist is the way to go definetely. Or you could get another fish tank bubbler, two of those should do the trick.

You shouldn't need to heat the terrarium, room temperature is fine. I've seen them fruit easily in the low 60s, but 70-75 F is ideal.

Just remember... casings need 95% humidity when you first uncover them, and when they start pinning they need less, 87-92%. You can do this with a combination of perlite and fish tank bubbler(s), or a cool mist.
The cool mist you can run 24/7 and that will keep humidity close to 98% depending on how well the terrarium is sealed. You can get a timer and play around with it to get the humidity pumping at intervals to keep it at 87-92 for pinning.
Air exchange is vitally important for casings. I dont even trust my humidifier and I still fan manually once or twice a day. But then again I have a 4 shelf.. 6 foot tall terrarium.
The humidifier hooked into a tote like that will provide more than enough air exchange and humidity. You will likely only need to open it to harvest and maybe to mist.

But the idea of a computer fan will work...
That will create air circulation in your terrarium which is also important.

You just need to keep the humidity up and have good air exchange and you will be great.

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: ]
    #547396 -

Thanks man....

One more thing... the mycelium turned blue when I broke it up and now a bunch of it is blue in the casing (the thing is clear... I gotta tape the bottom tomorrow.) Is this ok? I hope so. I'm probably just paranoid. It's just bluing from handling and breaking up all the clumps... RIGHT????

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: monkey_bat]
    #547404 -

Yeah its fine. It stains blue when handled, nothing to worry about...that's just the psilocin reacting to oxygen


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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: ]
    #548637 -

Ok... I moved the whole setup to a large closet area so it will be less conspicuous.

The hygrometer fixed itself overnight.... it works fine now.

I looked at all 4 jars that didnt grow right... 2 of them had some slight signs of mycelium left... I opened them and it looks like the polyfil is all clogged up with Rye Starch Goo. One of them had more mycelium at one time and I popped the cap off, pulled out the polyfil, cleaned the cap, placed new polyfil in the hole... and put the cap back on. No sterile enviroment really... just clean hands and some lysol and soap. Today the jar is growing nicely... OBVIOUS growth in 24 hours... I Imagine if it doesnt contam it will go pretty fast. I didnt do the other 3 jars... I dont have room in the incubator at the moment.

The Humidity in the grow chamber is 98% according to the hygrometer left in over night. Perhaps once the casings are inside that will change. I need to get the other heater going soon...

Thats about it

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: ]
    #549444 -

Would that be a quarter cup of limestone (soil buffer) or hydrated lime (wards off conatams)?? Im still trying to get a perfect mesurment for hydrated lime for the 50/50 plus tek. Any idea how much oyster shell in that 20cups of casing?
Thanks


--------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------

When it comes
I'll know, I know
Just take my clothes and leave
And I'll be gone



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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: Northernsoul]
    #549705 -

yeah.. less than a quarter is what I used ... I was worried about over-doing it

I didnt use any oyster shell... I couldnt find it

The casings have spots of mycelium growing on them... I need to place some casing soil over top of the spots.
The bottoms of the containers (which are clear) show that the mycleium has reformed into a nice covering of white. I'm pleased.
I'm going to haveto buy another heater today or tomorrow to place into the other terrerium... I cant find a container big enough for the 150W heater... probably just as well.. I think it would generate too much heat.
I will need to transplant the casings to the humidity chamber soon... they are growing very fast... and I think perhaps I didnt case them thick enough.

I have some casing mix in the fridge... If I pop it into the microwave for a couple of minutes can I use it? Do I need to make a new batch? I think this stuff with the microwave should be cool... just to patch on the mycelium to create even layers.


The salvaged jar is taking off... very fast overnight colonization... I think it will be fine and will be ready in about 8 days or less.

Thats my update.

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: monkey_bat]
    #551002 -

bump bump

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: monkey_bat]
    #552072 -

The casings are showing agreesive growth. I see lots of mycelium in very white bubbled up spots... but not a lot of overall coverage... I am going to patch case them tomorrow on my day off.

A few grains stuck to the side above the casing and they are really neat looking and growing lots of white fuzzy... but are they bad? should I get rid of them? I imagine so.. so I will just scrape them off tomorrow.

My fruiting chamber has almost no condensation on the sides... but the radio shack thing reads 98%. Is this possible? It has a bubbler... but thats it. I was thinking I would need some pearlite just for saftey and because there is no condensation I doubt the reading of 98%. The temp is currently about 71-73 F at any point in time.

I was wondering... can I place the casings directly into the fruiting chamber once they are ready? I hope thats the case... because if so the temps I am getting should be fine for fruiting and I wont need a heater. Otherwise I might need a heater and I worry about excessive humidity due to all the evaporation... plus I dont want to spend $$.

Otherwise all is well... I see some whispier white stuff... but it seems to always form into more firm white cumps that bubble up into fuzzy cottonball mycelium that smells like mushies. SO... I doubt it is cobweb. I hope.

All seems to be going well... someone give me some advice on this no condensation and hygrometer thing... is my radio shack thing no good?

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: monkey_bat]
    #552117 -

You can have 98% humidity and no condensation on the walls. When you put the casings in you will probably not need any additional humidification other than the bubbler you are currently using and fanning and misting on a daily basis.

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Re: Rye Rubbermaids Casings and Huimidification [Re: ]
    #552119 -

Condensation usually happens when the tempurature inside and outside a object is different. Since most times this is not the case you wont see condensation with some humidification teks. I usually give my terrariums some "fake" condensation. I spray the walls with a good misty spray bottle. If the "fake" condensation dissappears quickly (24 hours) you may have a humidity problem.


--------------------
"There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving and that's your own self. So you have to begin there, not
outside, not on other people" - Aldous Huxley

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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