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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: I hate to say it..... its true [Re: Booby]
#5316091 - 02/19/06 10:56 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Booby said: Altho your comrades may have high-tailed it I'm glad you remain to interject reason and light where so often it is lacking.
Oh, I thought you might've answered my questions. Nevermind. 
My comrades, eh? They are as much your comrades as they are mine, or of anyone else here.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: BAH!
I think the cause and effect is proper!
apparently fireworks god feels that there is some sort of change, enough to the point which he would address it so.
I ask all of you who feel that this forum has been akin to MRP to please state some threads which you feel have been more prevalent since the farewell of the "swami cabal" (sorry, but I love it due to how apt it is).
I can think and name plenty of threads which have not only been thought of IMO to be superb, but openly praised by many various frequenting folk of this forum.
I think most of your responses are weak and mere blather in hopes of defending your fallen general and the aftermath which I have pointed out.
The difference between P&S and MRP has always been known and prevalent, and a few remarks stating mere opinions as factual datum in retrospect to said subject will not win this argument for you.
I know that many of the few left from the swami cabal still feel bitter and have defensive remarks regarding this sensitive subject, but even your hostility and cynicism has been quelled in this calm, post-swami era.
sure, blame it on "cycles" if you wish, but I am willing to bet that this era of "peace" and "philosophical prosperity" will flourish even under the animosity filled gaze of the remnants of swamis horde.
...............I HATE TO SAY THIS BUT...... you arguments have fallen to weak mutterings, your protests on deaf ears, and your ad hominems have been shown for the hollowness of which they possess.
(and if this post doesnt show you the difference between the two forums then I must be trying to show Anne frank card tricks)
Swami would have been banned for making a post like this which attacks members directly.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: I hate to say it..... its true [Re: fireworks_god]
#5316191 - 02/19/06 11:33 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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fireworks_god said: Please, you make a purely speculative claim as though it is a valid observation of reality. Your claim is a fallacy, as you have done nothing to demonstrate that the absence of Swami and his "cabal" is responsible for certain qualities of the forum becoming prevalent.
what would constitute a valid perception of reality? anything which you agree with? I simply made a connection between the two things. It was only an observation (which has so far been echoed by others) about the seemingly agreed upon prevalent qualities this forum has assumed since swami and co have left. Am I saying that it is THE sole reason? no, but I will speculate that it has a lot to do with it.
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There are always subtle changes. I address such changes as natural variations on a cycle that repeatedly occurs. Such changes are far too vauge and resultant from a numerous amount of dynamics for someone to suddenly proclaim that one specific difference is responsible for a sudden Renaissance in this forum.
I dont think anyone is claiming a Renaissance. The biggest improvement that I see in this forum is that threads are staying on topic. Swami (especially) had a penchant for spinning threads out of control, arguing apples and oranges.
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The unsubstantiated nature of your proclamation is further evident in your reliance on the purported apt usage of the phrase "swami cabal". Who is this mysterious group of mercenaries responsible for holding this forum hostage? From an objective viewpoint, I know of Swami's banning, and Icelander and Veritas' choice to leave due to their view that the moderation/administration was not benevolent. No such link between them and Swami exists other than their protest of actions taken agansit Swami.
oh come on, icelander was swami's cheerleader. Like the stereotypical bad guys goons in movies who would just laugh and echo whatever he said.
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At any point in time one can find a handful of threads that can be characterized as "superb" and that received commendations from various frequenting folk of this forum.
I think people here feel more relaxed now. Often I post concepts or ideas I know are absurd and flawed, but i enjoy tossing them around just for fun.... previously swami or diploid would have to get crazy serious about it, even when it was obviously in jest, or stated to be "just high blather". It was like trying to sing karaoke hammered on saki with Simon from American Idol in the room.
And your reversed "mere speculation" regarding how this forum has become like MRP is no more a "valid observation of reality" than mine was.
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I know that many of the few left from the swami cabal still feel bitter and have defensive remarks regarding this sensitive subject, but even your hostility and cynicism has been quelled in this calm, post-swami era.
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No basis upon which to place such "conclusions", of course.Quote:
swami would be proud. You used his signature tactic all through this "theatre", dont debate the topic, attack their debate methods and demand scientific research regarding abstract or minute details. One thing that swami never realized about all of that was his tactics could be reversed regarding his arguments which tried to reveal the insubstantial fluff.... like how everything that you have said so far could be more aptly applied to your previous and current arguments.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: I hate to say it..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5316206 - 02/19/06 11:37 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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swami is no longer a member. making direct personal comments about him would be the same as talking about any other random person not on this board.
I never made any other comments naming anyone else in my original post... fireworks god wished to make it personal.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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Quote:
I know that many of the few left from the swami cabal still feel bitter
That sounds like you had certain people in mind. If I eluded that the "mystics" here lack any sort of debating skills, would it not still be an attack on someone's character? Ad hominems are uncalled for, even if you drape a semi-transparent veil over it.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: I hate to say it..... [Re: Redstorm]
#5316378 - 02/19/06 12:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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how would that constitute as an ad hominem?
I dont see how naming a group of people is a personal attack. If you said that the "mystics" lack debating skills, it wouldnt be personal, it would be attacking a group. also, saying that a few unnamed people are bitter, isnt really an attack, shitting on their debating skills would be. your analogy is lopsided and irrelevant anyway.
I also said that MANY of the FEW.... which denotes that NOT ALL of the few are bitter. i really just dont see how that is personal in anyway, but it was a noble stretch.
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blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Wait so swami was trolling what the fuck does that mean? I must have missed ALL of the drama man.
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Re: I hate to say it..... [Re: blaze2]
#5316937 - 02/19/06 03:58 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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IMHO this place has become a wasteland, since the bannings and the abandonments - as if spiritual enlightenment, or commentary, outside of a funded church-scape actually requires a managing thought police force of admittedly unenlightened seekers in this kareoke context.
I mean, really here all there is is an opportunity for one being to take the stage at any moment on any thread, offer up some thought fragment in their own unique style, and then get back into the crowd of heckling or appreciative audience. (not the chicago symphony you know (cough cough....cough))
I am appalled that it ever turned into something more pompous than that, mostly I have just groaned for the last 2 weeks, and kept up as well as possible with only salvia related postings.
I can understand some uptight concerns in hallowed halls that people are tithed to maintain, but this should be a free speech zone, even more so than OTD, where the intent is to be off, this place is where off and on relate to growing more than joking.
off is necessary. swami did off most excellently - he was really quite on when it came to being off, especially when people were drilling themselves into their own navels too intently.
i miss him and the lights that have moved away.
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fresh313
journeyman


Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: I can understand some uptight concerns in hallowed halls that people are tithed to maintain, but this should be a free speech zone, even more so than OTD, where the intent is to be off, this place is where off and on relate to growing more than joking.
it is hard to say what you truly mean with the threat of banning always on your heels, i dont necessarily feel this personally, yet i think it rings true for a few. by protecting everyones 'feelings', is a large peace of potential growth factor not lost ?
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dorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
i miss him and the lights that have moved away.
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...


Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Re: I hate to say it..... [Re: dorkus]
#5317024 - 02/19/06 04:27 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
dr_mandelbrot said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
i miss him and the lights that have moved away.
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...


Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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I thought for a while, things would slow to a halt, or people would start getting crazy hostile..... but i perceive this forum to now be even better than before.
You mean, better in certain respects? Arguable, but do not ignore the fact that this also means there are other respects in which this forum was better before as well. With skeptics such as Swami, et al., there was an increase in inquisitive awareness, both retro and introspectively. This is because Swami and the ilk questioned beliefs and concepts rather than taking them at face value - and as such, promoted a higher cognitive standard of evaluation and provided more balance to the atmosphere. That's where real growth and change takes place - not in merely coasting along, smooth sailing and finding comfort in only like-minded people.
We find comfort in those who agree with us and growth with those who don't. Absent the promoters of logic, rationality and objectivity - reason, we subvert ourselves back to the irrational age of gullibility where the next mystic peddles us arbitrary fantasies that offer the masses a seemingly lucrative escape from reality, from facts, from honest work, effort and responsibility - not much unlike the widespread infomercial gurus on late-nite TV that make money off the ignorance of lazy humans around the world, who hold dear to their hearts the faint possibility of the "quick-fix", around the corner. Such is a fraction of why forums like the MR&P are emblematic of what's wrong with this world, which is but a massive orgy of intellectual onanism, a safe harbor for those who want to find comfort in refuge of reason, rather than face challenges, risk having their egos shattered, their irrational beliefs exposed in light of rigorous questioning and analysis, and becoming much more rooted and stable in Earth, in a this-worldly place - rather than in some quick-fixed "other-worldly" and arbitrary fantasy.
Hmph!
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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if you guys miss swami so much i can make another account with a new persona and takes swami's place. i've always been skeptical of swami's abilities as a skeptic (for instance his unwillingness to ever engage me directly in a debate) and i'd like to see if i could do a better job in some respects.
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...


Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Re: I hate to say it..... [Re: Deviate]
#5317270 - 02/19/06 06:07 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm rather intrigued and interested. I, for one, would love to see anybody carry out such an assertion as you've made - and if it were up to me, I'd gladly let you have at it. But as things are, the authorities here may present the technicality of puppetry - but perhaps they may surprise us all and be flexible enough to allow for a minor exception, as in your case.
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: I hate to say it..... [Re: Deviate]
#5317488 - 02/19/06 07:10 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I always saw Diploid as more consistently skeptical than Swami. I always thought Swami's great gift was not so much in challenging paranormal claims, but rather in changelling our values and beliefs about ourselves.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: I hate to say it..... [Re: Deviate]
#5317519 - 02/19/06 07:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: if you guys miss swami so much i can make another account with a new persona and takes swami's place. i've always been skeptical of swami's abilities as a skeptic (for instance his unwillingness to ever engage me directly in a debate) and i'd like to see if i could do a better job in some respects.
This is a step in the right direction. I'm not a regular enough to really know what all this Swami hullabaloo is about. But if you think a voice is missing from the S&P debate than take it upon yourself to be that voice. Is that so impossible?
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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it stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
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Re: I hate to say it..... [Re: Deviate]
#5317558 - 02/19/06 07:34 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: i've always been skeptical of swami's abilities as a skeptic (for instance his unwillingness to ever engage me directly in a debate)
You are quite intimidating.
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dr0mni
My Own Messiah


Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 2,921
Loc: USF Tampa, Fl
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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is it just me or is this thread just rehashing all the old drama?
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: what would constitute a valid perception of reality? anything which you agree with?
Anything that is based in some sort of trait or aspect of reality, in order to even be perceived in the first place.
Your allegation is more of a hypothesis as it stands. You recognize a suspossed change in the behavior of this forum (which is hard to determine in itself) and announce what is responsible for the occurence of this change.
Now, I ask you, how are you going to attempt testing this hypothesis, or giving us enough of a basis in order for our ownselves to take into consideration this idea and determine for ourselves that this reflects reality? That's the philosophical intent of sharing such, correct?
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I simply made a connection between the two things. It was only an observation (which has so far been echoed by others) about the seemingly agreed upon prevalent qualities this forum has assumed since swami and co have left.
You simply formed a connection and brought forth discussion on this formed connection. It would not surprise me that others may have echoed your concerns on the matter. Such a fact is reason enough to partake in discussion in order to investigate further with many focused minds. Demonstrating one's reasoning and focusing on the pertinent details that form the foundation of such a theory is, thus, necessary in order to effectively examine this. 
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Am I saying that it is THE sole reason? no, but I will speculate that it has a lot to do with it.
I'm sure you will speculate such, but I am wondering if you are going to demonstrate exactly what it is that causes you to bring yourself to speculate on the matter, and allow some discourse as to whether or not "what it is" is reasonable enough to form a valid basis for such a theory.
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The biggest improvement that I see in this forum is that threads are staying on topic. Swami (especially) had a penchant for spinning threads out of control, arguing apples and oranges.
So threads stay on topic now, apparently. What does this have to do with Swami? How does one person spiral a thread out of control without being abetted, in the first place? Any threads that you have in mind that can give us an example of this? Are we to trust your reasoning by itself?
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oh come on, icelander was swami's cheerleader. Like the stereotypical bad guys goons in movies who would just laugh and echo whatever he said.
Bullshit. Its statements such as these that inevitably make me question your judgement on this matter.
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I think people here feel more relaxed now.
Is that so? Three people in this very thread, two active posters throughout the last couple of months, weren't even aware of Swami's absence. Did the atmosphere subconsciously ease their minds, which were still under the impression that the wolf was preying the woods along the perimeter? 
I think that you have no way of knowing that people feel more relaxed now. Unless you do?
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Often I post concepts or ideas I know are absurd and flawed, but i enjoy tossing them around just for fun.... previously swami or diploid would have to get crazy serious about it, even when it was obviously in jest, or stated to be "just high blather". It was like trying to sing karaoke hammered on saki with Simon from American Idol in the room.
It is indeed truly shocking that participants here took discussion of philosophy and spirituality seriously.
Perhaps you were using the wrong forum when you were making up shit and fucking around while others were taking the advancement of understanding and realization seriously?
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And your reversed "mere speculation" regarding how this forum has become like MRP is no more a "valid observation of reality" than mine was.
I made no such observation. It is no wonder I question your reasoning concerning the dynamic, complex nature of a forum with hundreds of participants over the course of a month when you cannot even get your facts straight within one thread that you have been active in.
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swami would be proud. You used his signature tactic all through this "theatre", dont debate the topic, attack their debate methods and demand scientific research regarding abstract or minute details.
There is no topic up for discussion and debate.
"Uhhh... I think that, now that Swami is gone, people are relaxed, and the forum has changed for the better."
"How do you know? What exactly is this change and how do you know Swami has anything to do with it?"
"Um, you are just using Swami's tactic of debating the methods of debate instead of discussing the topic."
Riiiight.
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like how everything that you have said so far could be more aptly applied to your previous and current arguments.
Yes. I question your reasoning, and apparently you can more aptly question my reasoning that leads me to question your reasoning? 
I asked you to demonstrate the understanding upon which your hypothesis is based. That is discussion of the topic, which is your hypothesis. Are you actually interested in discussing this and playing game, or did you simply just get drunk one night and decide to make up bullshit? It is up to you to show us which one it is.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: I hate to say it..... [Re: dr0mni]
#5319534 - 02/20/06 11:11 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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dr0mni said: is it just me or is this thread just rehashing all the old drama?
It is. Take a guess as to who is responsible for instigating it? If Swami still participated here, you know it would be him.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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