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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Taking someone under your wing....
    #5313445 - 02/18/06 01:47 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I have this friend who has recently had a huge part of his identity collapse..... (via breakup) and the way events have set themselves up, I feel I have a pristine opportunity to help him tune in to higher levels of consciousness...... to realize that he's playing a fruitless game, and that there are higher callings in life than finding a new girlfriend.

I'm also a bit worried that he says he is thinking of joining the FBI or IRS for money and to be able to have guns. One of my other friends has already fallen victim to a violent life and is probably beyond help though I hope for him to attain great realizations on the path he has chosen...

but I don't want this one to go the same way.

I recently had a dream about him which synched 110% with reality and there are still some ambiguous things to interpret... but it basically leads me to believe that, as of right now, he is following me and that if I took some initiative and perhaps came down on him (not negatively, I mean like, asserting a bit of control/authority on him) I could help him figure things out.

But who am I? I am no enlightened being. I have seen a lot, and what I have seen has both helped and confused me greatly.... but I really do feel, especially after an experience last night, that I am on the right track, and that the only thing necessary for supreme and ultimate enlightenment is to EMBRACE that as a valid life goal. I don't know how far I can make it, how far my ego will let me make it.... in this life. But as far as I can go, that's how far I want to go.

I want to become one with God, find my own liberation.... my own path. And because of this I feel that anything I can do with him would be of great service to him right now.

But it all boils down to.... psychedelics. I am no longer nearly as conflicted about their divine properties as I was before, though I'm thinking mainly speaking organics are what its about (weed, shrooms [haven't yet done them but I know someone who might even post on the shroomery that i should get to know, still not sure about it], and LSA or salvia) but..... the key thing here is, you have to spend more time in sober reflection than you do tripping reflection.

The drugs are just showing you about what spirituality is supposed to be about, but I don't think they can take you all the way. Though I think they can initiate supreme personality changes so that you can properly align yourself to the "right" path and in fact realize that there IS a right path.

I don't know. It was loosely communicated to me through a girl who I was probably having a telepathic experience with [long story, don't want to sound crazy] that I in fact DO NOT have to help this friend wake up. But I feel a calling to nonetheless.....

I went through it. Being with a girl who it turns out didn't like you at all. But he invested literally like 6 or more years of his life in that relationship. He has nothing of real substance to show for it now. I have so much I could share with him, but we speak completely different languages, and the only simple way I know of to destroy the language barrier is to get him high.

But you can't make someone get high, and I'm not sure if you can convince them that it would be good for them. I'm not really sure what to do exactly. I concluded last night to just let him come to me and express interesting in the psychedelic, but in order to do that I'm still going to need to hold influence over him.

I may need to shape my consciousness and personality in line so that others act upon me naturally to meet my own ends, rather than me acting on others naturally, or there being a two-way street. I do believe the element of water and the sacral chakra would allow me to align my consciousness in this way.

So I don't know. What should I do? I know I can't save everyone, though if you're going to become an enlightened being it seems like you are supposed to vow to save everyone as it is.... but..... if I can't save my friends and my family and get them to living more spiritual and balanced lives.... do I really deserve to keep pushing the limits and seeing how far out my mind can go, and how in tune I can get with the universe?

Is it okay to go the path alone and disregard all other humans aside from those who show implicit interest in joining you?

I dunno. I can bombard him with little things, expose him to good music, plant some "it doesn't matter" and such ideas in his head as far as relatoinships go...
hum.

he just messaged me.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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InvisibleMOTH
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
Re: Taking someone under your wing.... [Re: leery11]
    #5313763 - 02/18/06 03:52 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

we speak completely different languages, and the only simple way I know of to destroy the language barrier is to get him high.




What languages do you each speak?


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InvisibleChristoph teh goat luvr
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Re: Taking someone under your wing.... [Re: MOTH]
    #5313784 - 02/18/06 03:58 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think he means literally. Just in a sense of what they talk about.


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Taking someone under your wing.... [Re: Christoph teh goat luvr]
    #5313803 - 02/18/06 04:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomChris said:
I don't think he means literally. Just in a sense of what they talk about.



yes.

he speaks the language of society, has many prejudiced notions about drugs. he isn't against them perse and thinks they should be legal, or at least weed should, but he has no education on the psychedelic experience and its benefits.....

so he defines psychedelic much more negatively than I do, I'd imagine.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5278821#Post5278821

i also have this thread about him, but it's much more than just wanting him to trip, i really feel like i should try and help him get his priorities "set right" in the sense of being able to more objectively view reality from outside his normal cognitive constraints.

or i can give up and just let whatever happens, happen.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (02/18/06 04:07 PM)


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InvisibleMOTH
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Posts: 23,431
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Re: Taking someone under your wing.... [Re: Christoph teh goat luvr]
    #5313855 - 02/18/06 04:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I must be in an odd mood. Because all I got from that post is he wants to "enlighten" his friend with drugs in order to help him. And that he wants to make his friend into a copy of himself by encouraging him to make similar life choices? And exert some type of "control" and "authority" over him?

I'd like to know: does the friend have a desire to change who he is? Does he have a desire to become the person that Leery is envisioning?

I don't care that much, I'm just curious because the title drew me in. I have this secret fantasy about someone "taking me under their wing" and exerting authority over me, making me resistant, resentful and dependant on them. Placing me into the victim state, the child state, with someone to watch, nurture and guide me all the while.

Unfortunately, that's just a fantasy. I'm an adult now with responsiblities and am learning how to make my own decisions and follow my own path.

I hope Leery respects the fact that his friend may be on a different path then he. There's more then one way to live. The possiblities are infinite, in fact.


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Taking someone under your wing.... [Re: MOTH]
    #5314036 - 02/18/06 05:38 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
I must be in an odd mood. Because all I got from that post is he wants to "enlighten" his friend with drugs in order to help him. And that he wants to make his friend into a copy of himself by encouraging him to make similar life choices? And exert some type of "control" and "authority" over him?

I'd like to know: does the friend have a desire to change who he is? Does he have a desire to become the person that Leery is envisioning?

I don't care that much, I'm just curious because the title drew me in. I have this secret fantasy about someone "taking me under their wing" and exerting authority over me, making me resistant, resentful and dependant on them. Placing me into the victim state, the child state, with someone to watch, nurture and guide me all the while.

Unfortunately, that's just a fantasy. I'm an adult now with responsiblities and am learning how to make my own decisions and follow my own path.

I hope Leery respects the fact that his friend may be on a different path then he. There's more then one way to live. The possiblities are infinite, in fact.



I feel what you're saying... it's real hard for me to describe just what I'm feeling.

I don't care what he does with his life, I just want him to understand how to live it.

I mean, all he does is play video games, over, and over, and over again. His entire identity was wrapped up into that girl and he's just been a really sort of completely bland person.

I just want to show him that there's more to living than going from day to day being completely bored and clueless about the future. I see him in a rut and I know that I have some tools to help him get out of it. That the psychedelics do as well.

I want to show him a new perspective. Instigate radical self-improvement. It's not that I want him to do any one thing or be any one way, it's just that I want to show him that he can find his own way, and I feel like right now is the time, because he hasn't ever really worked on consolidating a strong identity.

Depressed with school, only in it because his parents want him to be. Not sure what to do with his future. Just lost a long-term relatoinship. Right now. Right now is time for growth, and I'm not sure if he has the drive in him to utilize this period of time correctly or not.

I mean, all he did, ever, was hang out with her or sit around his room playing games. Now I'm going to have to start filling that role, and it's apparent. He's made initiatves to hang out with me a lot more, and I really feel like I have to be a proper friend to him.

In my mind a proper friend doesn't let his friend stagnate to death.... his future is COMPLETELY up to him, I just want to help him realize that.

I want him to have the benefits that I've had, so that he can make better decisions in his life.

I want him to find a new found beauty and meaning in life and realize that he has so much control over the world, anything at all is possible, and that HE is the only person that can make himself happy. That his self worth, his fulfillment, it does not depend upon the external, but the internal.

What I was saying is that I might have to just be upfront and vigorous in trying to get him to work through stuff. As far as I know he doesn't have any emotional confidants and I've been talking to my other friend and he says he's clueless as to how he's handling the breakup.

I want this guy to open up. I want him to be able to vitalize his spirit. I want to initiate transformation in him and help him find peace and happiness, and I think getting him to trip or get really high would be a step in the right direction, though it would have to be well-planned out.

I mean, his idea of fun is just drinking every week. Drinking. White man medicine makes you feel good first, bad later. Indian medicine makes you feel bad first, good later. If he's going to be using drugs I don't want them to be alcohol and anti-depressants.

Does this make sense? I don't want to tell him how to live his life, I just want to get him evened out to the same page that I'm on so he has better tools to take back with him into daily living.

I've asked him to go to yoga.... I don't know. He has to be willing to let himself open up....... I'm just.... trying to figure out what I can do for him as a friend.

It's really hard for me to hang out with him because we don't really do anything that constructive, we just sit and watch tv or play games and waste time. It's not bad. It's a good part of friendship, but it can't be the ONLY part of friendship. There is no emotional connection and little capacity for conversation. And I don't know. It's hard for me to describe. I just see him caught up in a lot of false-views and I want to show him that everything is internal, everything is his choice. He has direct control over his entire life.

I don't want him to waste it.

I mean this is THE time for him to sort issues out, I just want to make sure he makes it through. I went through similar things and it seems asburd for me to just sit here and hope he does okay without trying to be an influence in his life.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (02/18/06 05:46 PM)


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InvisibleVirgilKane
Miner for truth and delusion
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Re: Taking someone under your wing.... [Re: leery11]
    #5314961 - 02/18/06 11:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)



Sorry, I didn't read everything...it was just too long, BUT:

Just live your life the way that you do and be an example to him. 

It's up to him whether to follow your lead or not.  If he's really that unmotivated then it will probably just end up frustrating you and putting you in a bad place, feeling that either he or you let you down because things didn't meet your expectations.

Good luck. 

And I sincerely mean that my friend.  I've been where you are and have had to finally give up trying to help some friends of mine pull themselves up.  Hell, maybe they like things just the way they are and don't want to change. :shrug:

You seem to have a good heart and grand intentions but be careful, people can pull you down as you try to pull them up...


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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Invisiblekoppie
astral projectile
Male

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 2,653
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Re: Taking someone under your wing.... [Re: leery11]
    #5318800 - 02/20/06 07:14 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I tend to agree with schapper.

One nasty habit of many organized religions is that they use people's weak moments to try to convert them. The temptation to do so can be very great sometimes even in the less organised more personal spiritual paths, I've felt it myself. You think: "If only people would see it my way then they would be much better off!" I believe that your hesitation to act on this impulse is very wise.

Just be there as a friend and try to be an all round positive influence, but don't force people into things they're not ready for.


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Offlineannielicious
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Registered: 03/31/00
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Re: Taking someone under your wing.... [Re: leery11]
    #5323996 - 02/21/06 01:05 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Exactly what schapper said. Live by example. Respect his right to his own self determination, whether is is good or not. He will learn and ask when he is at a place to do so, otherwise you will be speaking on deaf ears.

Help him think tho, by asking questions he may not be able to ask himself. He needs someone who isn't going to feed into his crap, and who will be loving and without their own agenda for him.

Obsolve yourself from any ABSOLUTE need to save him, only he can save himself in his own way. He cannot learn your lessons your way.

Also, before you act.. ask yourself the REAL reason you want to help him. I realized the reason I was getting so passionate about helping my sister with her marital trouble, was so that I didn't have to experience another divorce. Remove your need and your emotions from his problems.

Good luck


--------------------
"Everything that limits us, we have to put aside."  Jonathan Livingston Seagull


Edited by annielicious (02/21/06 01:09 PM)


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Taking someone under your wing.... [Re: annielicious]
    #5325377 - 02/21/06 07:00 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

yeah i've thought about it some, it seems that i want to legitimize MY drug use by getting other people to do drugs with me.

plus tripping alone and getting high alone and being alone in general can suck sometimes.

So yes, I'll just talk to him, let him bring things up, mention psychedelics if the opportunity comes up but not push anything.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Taking someone under your wing.... [Re: leery11]
    #5378542 - 03/08/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

this is really challenging....

I'm trying to talk to him about how meditation helps sort out issues and he doesn't get what I'm saying at all.....

I don't think he has any experience with altered states, not even dreaming....... how do you explain how complete freedom lies in being in the present without thought, how a clear mind = a dissolved ego = unity = peace.

i dunno.

i don't want him to stagnate.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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